Situation Report: HoTS Balance - Page 17

On March 17 2013 18:59 Bagi wrote:
I agree with Avilo that medivac speed is necessary and a good thing to have in the game (separate the good from the bad), but I think everyone can agree that its slightly too strong in its current form.

Either give the ability a small energy cost or double the cooldown, An energy cost would force terrans to choose between boosting and healing. A longer cooldown would make terrans choose between boosting into a base and out of it, in most cases you won't be able to do both.

E. Can't believe Rabiator isn't banned and it still trolling people with this "BW is more casual"-bullcrap.

On March 17 2013 22:03 AIKfans87 wrote:
Avilo spot on! I want to see at least one GSl before any changes to be made. But spidermines is the unit that may need change somehow.

On March 17 2013 22:05 dacimvrl wrote:


In an interview, David Kim did mention that they are monitoring widow mines, and considering changes/nerfs to the blast radius of the missiles IIRC.

On March 17 2013 21:59 dacimvrl wrote:


I play terran and I may be biased, but I do not think there's enough evidence that HotS medivac boosters are OP yet, because it was completely shut down by several players at MLG yesterday without hassle. With the boosters engaged, medivacs' speed is the same as the HotS mutas, and leenock and ret were consistently able to hunt them down or destroy them before the drops even happened. Ret even used vipers to abduct fleeing medivacs. That was some impressive play. Now, what was the problem the pros were facing then? Clumped up mutas vs multi-pronged drops and not having enough static defences, which has never been a balance issue, but a strategic one.

For PvT, MC shut down Mvp's drops w/ his phoenix/oracle opening ezpz.

and to those qqing about that there's no risk/cost associated with the ability, where's the cost/risk associated with the new mutas (passive speed increase, no risk at all) and phoenix (+1 range passive)? Would you rather have the speed of medivacs be passive so it's even with the new mutas/phoenix? In this regard, the medivacs got the short end of the stick, wouldn't you agree?

On March 05 2013 09:24 baldgye wrote:


Clearly you don't understand the game, as those things are not even close to similar.

On March 17 2013 22:13 Lonyo wrote:


So basically "it's easy to shut down something almost all terrans will do every game, you just have to go a specific tech path as Zerg or Protoss".

That means it's broken.

If you NEED to go air to beat drops easily, what's the point in having all those other units? You are saying medivacs are fine, because you can easily beat them if you limit your strategic/tech options in the game.

Maybe it terran wasn't 90% guaranteed to be going medivacs every game, that would be fine, but terrans almost always go medivacs, unless they are going mech, which means the only way to beat them is to limit your tech paths, because everything else sucks against them.

The other problem is the really obvious one.
MAPS.
Stupidfast OP dropships on WoL maps... are you kidding?
Stupidfast dropships on maps designed with WoL mapping experience... are you kidding?

A map like Cloud Kingdom, or one of the new maps, where the ground travel time between the main and third is absurd means but air distance is pretty much zero medivacs can do whatever the hell they want. And then there's the massive open air space behind bases in Cloud Kingdom.

I still think medivac speed is wrongly designed/implemented, as it IS too strong, because it allows you to get in and out again with a boost with no real issues, and unless the opponent picks a specific tech tree they can't do much.
But maps are also being used which are either WoL maps, or designed for WoL balance, and speed medivacs break that balance because they are far far far far more abusive than old medivacs. Maps need to catch up too, but inherently the design is also overpowered because you can get in and then out as well by using the boost... that is wrong, IMO.

On March 17 2013 22:32 dacimvrl wrote:


isn't that the whole game?? you build what counters your opponent's units.... Terrans always have to go vikings vs toss because 90% of them go colossi vs terran? With your logic, colossi are broken too........ Terrans always have to tech to ghosts vs HTs, in that regard HTs are broken too.. Terrans have to go marauders vs roaches or Ultras, I guess those are broken too.... It''s one hard-counter unit, not an entire tech path, fyi.

On March 17 2013 22:43 Lonyo wrote:


Which is one of the things they were trying to "fix" with HotS... like vipers for zerg to counter colossi instead of requiring corruptors.
Which is why introducing a change to a unit that brings back that element is stupid.

On March 17 2013 22:58 Decendos wrote:

the medivacspeed is fine, it just needs to have a drawback. there are numerous suggestions. cost a significant amount of energy (has to hurt...25 will do literally nothing), way higher cooldown, cant load or unload unit for x amount of sec after using it, cant heal after using it for x amount of sec, whatever.

On March 17 2013 22:58 Decendos wrote:
yeah just nerf mines slightly. would be awesome if they just did 100% friendly damage

On March 17 2013 23:11 Bagi wrote:

They already do 100% friendly damage.

On March 17 2013 23:09 dacimvrl wrote:


what do you say the drawback of the new passive muta speed buff is then? It's always on and you don't even have to hit a button to activate it, no cool down either.. Not to mention medivacs aren't even faster than mutas with the boosters engaged....

in hots, mutas got perma speed buff and increased regen, medivacs got a cooldown based speed boost.. mutas obviously got the better deal..

On March 17 2013 23:16 Decendos wrote:


really? okay well then they need to lower radius a bit ^^



yeah a 7% speedboost is the same as a 50% or so speedboost. oh wait speedboost/=speedboost. and btw ling bling muta needed a buff since not only did medivacs get faster but also mines being a hardcounter to ling bling muta and hellbats to ling bling was introduced. the day T start to cry about ling bling muta being imba will be a new dimension of crying. ^^

On March 17 2013 23:19 dacimvrl wrote:


lol, nice dodge so what's the drawback again? none, nada.. btw, hellbats weren't introduced to address ling/bling..... if you actually followed the dev posts, it was introduced to make mech viable in tvp......... dude, go get all your facts straight.. god, why do i even bother..

On March 17 2013 23:22 Decendos wrote:


yeah hellbats are introduced to kill zealots...but guess what they also rape lings and are decent vs banes. and mines also was introduced and counters ling, blings and mutas. and yes mutaspeed and regen has no drawback because they TESTED it and mutas were unplayable before this change because of the mentioned new counters hellabts, mines and faster medivacs.

so safe your comment why you even bother if you just dont want your race being balanced but rather like to abuse imbaspeed and mines. luckily most players want a balanced and fun game so you will need to deal with a patch that brings back balance.

On March 17 2013 19:03 Hypemeup wrote:


A cooldown increase would be way better compared to an energy cost. Medivacs already struggle with energy healing any mid-large bioforce. I'd rather have the pros pick between using the speed for entry or exit.