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United Kingdom12042 Posts
On March 06 2013 03:44 Zorgaz wrote:Kinda feels like a lost cause, can understand why they don't want to change it now when the games release is just around the corner but it beats me why the only change they have made to the Siege Tank during hots beta is free Siege upgrade. Is that really they only thing they came up with? Would have liked to see them try + damage to shields =/
I think if anything they'll add plus damage to shields when they release 0 pros are going mech at tournaments.
It's not that absurd of a change and I think they genuinly want to give Terrans more options against toss and toss more options against Terran. It's a small enough change to make to make people want to go mech, but currently there are actually mech pushes you can do to punish certain plays like fast 3 bases (6 fact all-in works really damn well), it's just currently most of the pros who are playing the game are currently the ones who love Bio.
Wait for MVP, Flash and maybe Fantasy to pick up mech, I think they'll atleast prepare some mech builds.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
All they need to do is make afterburners an upgrade you get via tech lab or even armory depends which one; if they take it out of the game completlely we will get a worst game as a result.
Protoss air is only "too" strong imo when it has 3-3-3, they could look to address shield upgrade first on the air, maybe remove it or something i don't know.
Hydra could use another speed or movement boost so they can be micro'd a bit better, borderline marine micro with them, but obviously don't turn them into marines xD
I don't see an issue with Oracles ? Saw them being used by mc in an all in and looked great? Free observer, can hit ground, destroy SCVs for fun? I think they are a good unit.
The only unit i think is a bit OP (a bit) is widow mines, i think they do a lot of damage for what they are xD but again i hope they don't change them as it makes the game fun!
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On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL.
I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan.
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great to see blizzard relaxing with the nerfs/buffs and letting the game develop more before any big changes are made. glad to take it a bit slower 
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan.
Why?
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United Kingdom12042 Posts
On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan.
I don't get how you could possibly think HoTS is worse to watch than WoL. There's so many improvements to allow people to show their skill (Oracles, faster hydras, mines, swarmhosts and more) Most of the newer stuff rewards skill and less deathbally play and PvZ is about 100 times better to watch.
Could you possibly explain why?
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On March 06 2013 19:21 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan. I don't get how you could possibly think HoTS is worse to watch than WoL. There's so many improvements to allow people to show their skill (Oracles, faster hydras, mines, swarmhosts and more) Most of the newer stuff rewards skill and less deathbally play and PvZ is about 100 times better to watch. Could you possibly explain why?
Not just PvZ(which was the most boring match-up, I agree), but every match-up is a lot better and more interesting to watch. I've watched game 2 of Vibe vs. Illusion yesterday, damn, what a great game, constant action all over the map, from start of the game to the end, and it was longer game. Game is a lot more active than it was before.
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On March 06 2013 19:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 19:21 Qikz wrote:On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan. I don't get how you could possibly think HoTS is worse to watch than WoL. There's so many improvements to allow people to show their skill (Oracles, faster hydras, mines, swarmhosts and more) Most of the newer stuff rewards skill and less deathbally play and PvZ is about 100 times better to watch. Could you possibly explain why? Not just PvZ(which was the most boring match-up, I agree), but every match-up is a lot better and more interesting to watch. I've watched game 2 of Vibe vs. Illusion yesterday, damn, what a great game, constant action all over the map, from start of the game to the end, and it was longer game. Game is a lot more active than it was before.
well, right now WoL is much better to watch, because the level of play is much, much, much, much, much higher. As people just know what to do, while a lot of HotS games come down to players just not having a clue how to use their own units properly or have no clue how to play HotS at all.
IEM spoilers:
+ Show Spoiler +e.g:
Snute's swarm host play seemed very bad. No retreating after spawning...
MC seems to have no clue at all... Just rolling over against widow mines and swarm hosts without any real resistance.
stuff like that, which makes a lot of progames feel like being played by bronzies that use no hotkeys and have to read through ability texts while playing.
But yeah, HotS looks like it will be very good for the gameplay in the longrun.
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On March 06 2013 19:21 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan. I don't get how you could possibly think HoTS is worse to watch than WoL. There's so many improvements to allow people to show their skill (Oracles, faster hydras, mines, swarmhosts and more) Most of the newer stuff rewards skill and less deathbally play and PvZ is about 100 times better to watch. Could you possibly explain why?
I didn't say I will not watch it. Maybe the problem was the quote I used before my post. My point was I don't want to buy HotS or play MP. I will still watch streams for a while to see if I can have fun watching it.
And Why?
1. Not enough changes. Lots of promises, poor delivery (no changes to mech, no fixes to overseer, corruptor or nydus, carrier only got a small change, colossi still same in the game, Thor still there basically unchanged)
2. What was changed is mostly bad.
Zerg: Hydra only got speed upgrade which should have been there in WoL. Ultra charge which was cool was exchanged for bit of numbers change of damage. Swarm Host is such a pathetic Lurker wannabe, he is 33% of reason I don't want to play HotS Zerg. Infestor Fungal and IT were raped (probably should have but maybe done in another way) but his mind control was left at its useless nerfed state. Burrow and overlord speed at hatch tech is not enough. Only good things are Viper and Spore without evolution chamber. And muta changes are cool but would not be needed if other stuff was done right.
In addition to this I was expecting some more creep mechanics except for graphics changes. There was so much cool stuff they could have added and they fucked up. I will not even go into Toss or Terran, they fucked up less but they still did.
I hope all this is enough of a reason...
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On March 06 2013 19:21 Qikz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan. I don't get how you could possibly think HoTS is worse to watch than WoL. There's so many improvements to allow people to show their skill (Oracles, faster hydras, mines, swarmhosts and more) Most of the newer stuff rewards skill and less deathbally play and PvZ is about 100 times better to watch. Could you possibly explain why?
Quick look at his post history reveals a bunch of balance complaints and a desire for zerg to be OP at the start of the expansion the way terran was at the start of WOL.
Go figure.
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On March 06 2013 19:55 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 19:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On March 06 2013 19:21 Qikz wrote:On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan. I don't get how you could possibly think HoTS is worse to watch than WoL. There's so many improvements to allow people to show their skill (Oracles, faster hydras, mines, swarmhosts and more) Most of the newer stuff rewards skill and less deathbally play and PvZ is about 100 times better to watch. Could you possibly explain why? Not just PvZ(which was the most boring match-up, I agree), but every match-up is a lot better and more interesting to watch. I've watched game 2 of Vibe vs. Illusion yesterday, damn, what a great game, constant action all over the map, from start of the game to the end, and it was longer game. Game is a lot more active than it was before. well, right now WoL is much better to watch, because the level of play is much, much, much, much, much higher. As people just know what to do, while a lot of HotS games come down to players just not having a clue how to use their own units properly or have no clue how to play HotS at all. IEM spoilers:+ Show Spoiler +e.g:
Snute's swarm host play seemed very bad. No retreating after spawning...
MC seems to have no clue at all... Just rolling over against widow mines and swarm hosts without any real resistance.
stuff like that, which makes a lot of progames feel like being played by bronzies that use no hotkeys and have to read through ability texts while playing.
But yeah, HotS looks like it will be very good for the gameplay in the longrun.
That is true for some players, but not for others that have been playing beta almost from the start. There are also a lot of Koreans that played Beta.
+ Show Spoiler +I still didn't watch a single IEM game, but you gave a worse example with Snute. All of his HotS games were horrible to watch. He is stuck in WoL metagame, he is massing Infestors and was losing to basically everything, since Infestors are a lot more of an support units right now, they are not core anymore.
If you really want to watch some other games, watch Illusion vs. Vibe and Goswser vs. Caliber series, and tell me they are not much more interesting than WoL. But WoL started to get interesting near the end when Infestors got nerfed, since we see Hydras and Mutas again.
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Seems all fine with me to let it play out more, though i think mass air Protoss vs Zerg is utterly boring to watch as a spectator and i pray it's not going to be to succesful or Protoss just switched places with Zerg in the end game.
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On March 06 2013 19:55 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 19:39 Ramiz1989 wrote:On March 06 2013 19:21 Qikz wrote:On March 06 2013 18:46 -Archangel- wrote:On March 06 2013 06:26 Demicore wrote:
I really like Blizzard's attitude. I have a feeling HotS will be a much better spectator sport than WoL. I don't like it. They lost me as customer and player and I am a huge Starcraft Lore/setting fan. I don't get how you could possibly think HoTS is worse to watch than WoL. There's so many improvements to allow people to show their skill (Oracles, faster hydras, mines, swarmhosts and more) Most of the newer stuff rewards skill and less deathbally play and PvZ is about 100 times better to watch. Could you possibly explain why? Not just PvZ(which was the most boring match-up, I agree), but every match-up is a lot better and more interesting to watch. I've watched game 2 of Vibe vs. Illusion yesterday, damn, what a great game, constant action all over the map, from start of the game to the end, and it was longer game. Game is a lot more active than it was before. well, right now WoL is much better to watch, because the level of play is much, much, much, much, much higher. As people just know what to do, while a lot of HotS games come down to players just not having a clue how to use their own units properly or have no clue how to play HotS at all. IEM spoilers:+ Show Spoiler +e.g:
Snute's swarm host play seemed very bad. No retreating after spawning...
MC seems to have no clue at all... Just rolling over against widow mines and swarm hosts without any real resistance.
stuff like that, which makes a lot of progames feel like being played by bronzies that use no hotkeys and have to read through ability texts while playing.
But yeah, HotS looks like it will be very good for the gameplay in the longrun. I agree with this.
Haven't seen too much games, but what i noticed was a lot of unrefined builds and some misunderstanding on how to use units (it seemed that way). Although saying it's like bronze is a little harsh, i can see what you mean.
Besides, almost all use of new units is saw gave me a positive feeling in the sense that their potential seemed to be high.
I completely agree with the blizzard post on balance. I do feel some things are very strong, but from what i saw, i don't think any change (read: nerf) is justified at this moment. + Show Spoiler +It doesn't seem bad to filter some bad zergs
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On March 06 2013 11:40 c0sm0naut wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 19:52 Liquid`Ret wrote:On March 05 2013 17:41 Qikz wrote:On March 05 2013 16:29 Liquid`Ret wrote:
How can there be nothing on the widow mine? What's wrong with the widow mine? (Just to let you know, I'm not whining or saying you're wrong or anything, just genuinly interested in what you think is wrong with it). Bio + 20 widow mines does not lose vs zerg i dont mean to player bash you ret, because i respect you and had a great time watching your matches earlier at IEM (You made a new fan today. In a big way for your win over MC. your game on daybreak was very impressive!), but it seems to me that you have less experience playing against this strategy than some of the korean zergs i have watched in GSTL preseason. in your match vs yoda on ohana, he cut scvs at 8 supply, and proxied you with reapers. you decided to go for a bane bust after scouting a single factory with no addon. it just seemed like you already had the game won, and then lost because you refused to accept your advantage and continue to pressure even after a failed bane attack with zergling reinforcements. when the wall was breached, you allowed yoda to skate his scvs to his bunker, and followed them with your zerglings instead of forcing a lift on his main CC which was not defended and couldn't be defended, or forcing a cancel on a building CC or delaying it by killing the scv itself. it just seemed like a WOL strategy trying to be forced against a HOTS defense, which is pretty understandable considering how in chaotic games its really easy to go on autopilot and play "standard". if that second ling swell was drones, you take that game 9/10 times. Yoda had a LOT of luck,but this series shouted unfamiliarity more than it did imbalance to me
I don't remember there being 20+ widow mines in that game. Since Ret's IEM game isn't relevant to his above statement I don't understand why you feel this is an appropriate place to comment on the loss.
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Its funny how even most of the pro's whine about balance without giving any suggestions how to change the unit.
Thats pretty retarded tbh. It once again seems to involve Terran units, they allready removed one of them so I guess the easiest route to take is just to remove afterburners, windowmines, hellbats and reapers.
Zerg and Protoss can have their units, terran is fine with wotlk shizz.
Only Korean T matters, right.
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Blizz also promised to change neural parasite, but they didn't.
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Classic Blizz, slow as usual.
High level P match ups pov:
Speedvacs in PvT are op. Please if you read, remember this: Korean T's will rape apart Protoss with classic mmm powered with current speedvacs.
Hellbats, are too strong as overall all purpose unit (talking for every match up here), but blizz seems to love strong antiground 1a units.
And in the PvZ match up, the stupid "most boring pro match up in WoL" mechanic still there!!
The protoss stills playing from behind since minute 4, leading into a significant production/economy/map control lead for the Z (that's why calling skytoss op is retarded, Z can have 10 corruptors by the time P have 2 voids).
P needed some way of harass to slow down Z eco/production like the Terrans do, but that mechanic/unint never showed up in Hots.
Why in the world an unpunisheable 4 min 3rd STILL posbile?? That is the main cancer in the match up. This is not Bw, queens make that 3rd much more significant. This is the main reason the match up is almost no back and forth.
And I'm not even mentioning how dumb are new mutas: Every time the P does not go for 6-7 min stargate, you have to pray for the Z not going mutas, or is unposible to go past midgame, or you have to all-in. Ground is not able to handle pro level muta cloud anymore.
Again, I'm talking just at higher levels.
Oh, and after THAT much tweaking, Oracles ended up being a barelly used, cheesy (so easy to defend once figured out, so useless in the long term)unit, in the current design.
(New Reapers cost efficiency do much more slowing Z eco than Oracles...)
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On March 06 2013 23:48 Belha wrote:
Why in the world an unpunisheable 4 min 3rd STILL posbile??
Because it's the only response to an untouchable forge fast expand?
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On March 07 2013 00:06 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 23:48 Belha wrote:
Why in the world an unpunisheable 4 min 3rd STILL posbile?? Because it's the only response to an untouchable forge fast expand?
Believe me, any protoss would love to go for a non-forge buid efficiently denies such a big Z eco/prod lead.
Edit: Meh not worth it to make a long response to such question.
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On March 07 2013 00:06 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2013 23:48 Belha wrote:
Why in the world an unpunisheable 4 min 3rd STILL posbile?? Because it's the only response to an untouchable forge fast expand?
7 pool into burrow-roaches
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EPT
