The final map pool for the Intel Extreme Masters World Championship at CeBIT 2013 has been determined.
Our new map pool includes a couple of the old maps everyone is used to like the very popular Daybreak and Cloud Kingdom as well as a few new maps such as Star Station and Newkirk District. The full map pool can be found below.
If it is HOTS why use Newkirk district instead of the original HOTS version Newkirk City? Kinda strange. Same with Akilon.
Still i approve of the choices, Star station is still an awesome looking map and i look forward to see how it plays. Daybreak and Antiga are kinda dated maps at this point through.
solid map pool, glad they didn't put in korhal city and howling peak, because those 2 make for pretty shitty games in my opinion. people will complain about CK and Daybreak still being in there but there's no real good maps you could take instead of those 2...
I dont understand why Ohana, entombed, and antiga are in the map pool. Every single tournament has stopped using them now...They are old and crappy maps.
On February 25 2013 00:04 AxionSteel wrote: Wow, metropolis still in tournaments....
I'm actually very excited for this one. It's the #1 map I would like to see get a 2nd chance in HotS. Yes it was imba as hell in WoL, but it provided a shitload of great games and maybe it won't be as bad in HotS.
HotS beta, THE chance to experiment a little with new maps in the map pool, but what does IEM do? It goes for a boring, predictable pool using maps that have been around since August 2011. Why not some of the new maps introduced into GSTL, like Atlas etc.
First offline, Western HotS tournament and it just brings out the same old, boring maps we've grown tired off over the past year and a half...
I like the map pool honestly, Metropolis/Ohana especially could end up being wildly different because they have never really been used for HotS, only Wings of Liberty.
Newkirk District is an awful map, I can't believe it'll be used in a pro tournament. And Metropolis will probably lead to awful games with turtle mech and skytoss.
No idea why Antiga, Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Metropolis, Ohana, and Entombed Valley are in the map pool. This isn't a WoL tournament but rather a HotS tournament. Going forward we cannot as a community be using old outdated maps from as far back as 2011 in the year 2013 and with a new expansion pack.
Compare their map pool to GSTL, which is at the moment the best HotS league. They only have 1 map in common, Akilon Flats. Going forward we're going to need tournament organizers to realize that the game is vastly different from the days of 2011 and we have to have new maps into the pool.
Hell, IEM is actually doing a worse job than Blizzard. I'm impressed that blizzard actually has decided to step it up and improve their ladder map pool going into HotS.
Overall, disappointed in IEM and with the lack of koreans I'll probably only be watching the VODs of the semi-finals / finals of the tournament. Hopefully we as a community can step it up to the standards of GSL and get more maps into the pool such as Silver Sands (used in the GSTL) and Phantasm (used in IPL6 HotS).
You don't see players using strategies from 2011, you don't see GSL using their old horrible overlay from 2011, why should we have this many old out dated maps in the tournament pool in 2013?
I can understand using one or two (Daybreak comes to mind) but when this tournament is taking place, it'll have very few maps in common with the HotS ladder (and most of those maps will be blizzard maps).
Hopefully IEM doesn't hurt returning viewers. Imagine being a casual player returning to the game after taking a break in the middle of 2012 and still seeing the same maps being played. I'd be turned off immensely by it.
Thankfully they didn't put in Xel'Naga Snowy Caverns into the pool, so props to them for that.
(Wiki)Antiga Shipyard (Wiki)Akilon Flats (Wiki)Cloud Kingdom (Wiki)Daybreak (Wiki)Entombed Valley (Wiki)Metropolis (Wiki)Newkirk District (Wiki)Ohana (Wiki)Star Station
Oh good god can´t we get rid of the old maps? I´m so f***** tired of them.
On February 25 2013 02:18 Benz0 wrote: It seems like there is false information in the op. Actually it's Akilon Wastes (instead of Akilon Flats) and Newkirk City (instead of Newkirk District). Just check http://www.esl-world.net/masters/season7/hanover/news/215586/
Looks like they realized they actually used the HotS beta maps, I've updated the OP. But that doesn't change the spirit anyway.
Right it seems they have made some changes to the maps aswell.
IEM Antiga Shipyard has no gold expansion and is cross position only
Stardard
IEM Entombed Valley is cross position only
The standard is no horezontial spawns but whatever
IEM Star Station is cross position only
What?... WHY?! Since when did it become a universal rule that 4 player maps have to be cross position? There is close to Zero positional imbalance on the map and you can always pick a third away from your opponent.
All maps have neutral building blockers added to the bottom of the ramp of the main bases
Eh that is default even on Blizzard maps and have been so for the beta for quite a while...
IEM Akilon Wastes has the two central Xel'Naga Watchtowers removed
Seems even Blizzard agree with this change from GSL so it is fine.
I don't get they said building blockage have been added. They should already have been there. And i don't agree with Star station being Cross only, that is stupid. Also did they really miss the Rocks being missplaced on Newkirk city?
On February 25 2013 02:05 nomyx wrote: No idea why Antiga, Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Metropolis, Ohana, and Entombed Valley are in the map pool. This isn't a WoL tournament but rather a HotS tournament. Going forward we cannot as a community be using old outdated maps from as far back as 2011 in the year 2013 and with a new expansion pack.
Compare their map pool to GSTL, which is at the moment the best HotS league. They only have 1 map in common, Akilon Flats. Going forward we're going to need tournament organizers to realize that the game is vastly different from the days of 2011 and we have to have new maps into the pool.
Hell, IEM is actually doing a worse job than Blizzard. I'm impressed that blizzard actually has decided to step it up and improve their ladder map pool going into HotS.
Overall, disappointed in IEM and with the lack of koreans I'll probably only be watching the VODs of the semi-finals / finals of the tournament. Hopefully we as a community can step it up to the standards of GSL and get more maps into the pool such as Silver Sands (used in the GSTL) and Phantasm (used in IPL6 HotS).
You don't see players using strategies from 2011, you don't see GSL using their old horrible overlay from 2011, why should we have this many old out dated maps in the tournament pool in 2013?
I can understand using one or two (Daybreak comes to mind) but when this tournament is taking place, it'll have very few maps in common with the HotS ladder (and most of those maps will be blizzard maps).
Hopefully IEM doesn't hurt returning viewers. Imagine being a casual player returning to the game after taking a break in the middle of 2012 and still seeing the same maps being played. I'd be turned off immensely by it.
Thankfully they didn't put in Xel'Naga Snowy Caverns into the pool, so props to them for that.
Maybe they just didn't want to fuck over some players twice by announcing some unknown maps after announcing the HotS switch two and a half weeks before the event starts.
On February 25 2013 02:05 nomyx wrote: No idea why Antiga, Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Metropolis, Ohana, and Entombed Valley are in the map pool. This isn't a WoL tournament but rather a HotS tournament. Going forward we cannot as a community be using old outdated maps from as far back as 2011 in the year 2013 and with a new expansion pack.
Compare their map pool to GSTL, which is at the moment the best HotS league. They only have 1 map in common, Akilon Flats. Going forward we're going to need tournament organizers to realize that the game is vastly different from the days of 2011 and we have to have new maps into the pool.
Hell, IEM is actually doing a worse job than Blizzard. I'm impressed that blizzard actually has decided to step it up and improve their ladder map pool going into HotS.
Overall, disappointed in IEM and with the lack of koreans I'll probably only be watching the VODs of the semi-finals / finals of the tournament. Hopefully we as a community can step it up to the standards of GSL and get more maps into the pool such as Silver Sands (used in the GSTL) and Phantasm (used in IPL6 HotS).
You don't see players using strategies from 2011, you don't see GSL using their old horrible overlay from 2011, why should we have this many old out dated maps in the tournament pool in 2013?
I can understand using one or two (Daybreak comes to mind) but when this tournament is taking place, it'll have very few maps in common with the HotS ladder (and most of those maps will be blizzard maps).
Hopefully IEM doesn't hurt returning viewers. Imagine being a casual player returning to the game after taking a break in the middle of 2012 and still seeing the same maps being played. I'd be turned off immensely by it.
Thankfully they didn't put in Xel'Naga Snowy Caverns into the pool, so props to them for that.
Maybe they just didn't want to fuck over some players twice by announcing some unknown maps after announcing the HotS switch two and a half weeks before the event starts.
Sounds mostly like poor planning / business decision, hopefully it won't hurt them that bad.
On February 25 2013 02:54 Ramiz1989 wrote: I am fine with everything but the Ohana, really getting tired of that awful map..
What makes you say it's an awful map? I quite like it and wouldn't mind seeing some more HotS games on it. In general though, I have to agree with Dodgin... I've given up on foreign tournaments going for anything but really conservative map pools.
On February 25 2013 02:05 nomyx wrote: No idea why Antiga, Cloud Kingdom, Daybreak, Metropolis, Ohana, and Entombed Valley are in the map pool. This isn't a WoL tournament but rather a HotS tournament. Going forward we cannot as a community be using old outdated maps from as far back as 2011 in the year 2013 and with a new expansion pack.
Compare their map pool to GSTL, which is at the moment the best HotS league. They only have 1 map in common, Akilon Flats. Going forward we're going to need tournament organizers to realize that the game is vastly different from the days of 2011 and we have to have new maps into the pool.
Hell, IEM is actually doing a worse job than Blizzard. I'm impressed that blizzard actually has decided to step it up and improve their ladder map pool going into HotS.
Overall, disappointed in IEM and with the lack of koreans I'll probably only be watching the VODs of the semi-finals / finals of the tournament. Hopefully we as a community can step it up to the standards of GSL and get more maps into the pool such as Silver Sands (used in the GSTL) and Phantasm (used in IPL6 HotS).
You don't see players using strategies from 2011, you don't see GSL using their old horrible overlay from 2011, why should we have this many old out dated maps in the tournament pool in 2013?
I can understand using one or two (Daybreak comes to mind) but when this tournament is taking place, it'll have very few maps in common with the HotS ladder (and most of those maps will be blizzard maps).
Hopefully IEM doesn't hurt returning viewers. Imagine being a casual player returning to the game after taking a break in the middle of 2012 and still seeing the same maps being played. I'd be turned off immensely by it.
Thankfully they didn't put in Xel'Naga Snowy Caverns into the pool, so props to them for that.
Maybe they just didn't want to fuck over some players twice by announcing some unknown maps after announcing the HotS switch two and a half weeks before the event starts.
Sounds mostly like poor planning / business decision, hopefully it won't hurt them that bad.
I have to say IEM isn't known for wise business decisions for a long time
On February 25 2013 01:06 Hadley88 wrote: Ohana and Metropolis are back, yes! :D By far the two best WoL Maps, I hope they stay until LotV.
Nononono. I can't wait until Daybreak, Cloud Kingdom, Ohana, Metropolis, Antiga Shipyard and Entombed Valley are removed from ladder pools, I don't know how many games I've seen and played on these maps...
Wasn't this the tournament that people thought was going to be Wings instead of Swarm? If that's the case then of course they used a map pool like this, you can't expect players who not only haven't played as much HotS, but actively practiced as if it were a Wings tournament to now use maps they have zero idea how to play
On February 25 2013 11:32 RParks42 wrote: Wasn't this the tournament that people thought was going to be Wings instead of Swarm? If that's the case then of course they used a map pool like this, you can't expect players who not only haven't played as much HotS, but actively practiced as if it were a Wings tournament to now use maps they have zero idea how to play
because new new maps are something totally alien or what?
i dont get it, every map plays the same, you build bases and build an armee, only small details change, there is nothing BIG to learn
On February 25 2013 11:32 RParks42 wrote: Wasn't this the tournament that people thought was going to be Wings instead of Swarm? If that's the case then of course they used a map pool like this, you can't expect players who not only haven't played as much HotS, but actively practiced as if it were a Wings tournament to now use maps they have zero idea how to play
because new new maps are something totally alien or what?
i dont get it, every map plays the same, you build bases and build an armee, only small details change, there is nothing BIG to learn
This would be true if it was an amateur tournament, but seeing as how these are professionals, they need to be able to practice the subtleties of each map. Yes, you just "build bases and build an armee", but when, how economically greedy, and where you plan on attacking are major factors into each map. Saying every map plays the same is just ignorant and shows a lack of understanding on your part
What I don't get, to be blunt, is why some major tournaments don't just say "fuck it" and use a ton of new maps. Is it even risky at all, like some people seem to think?
You'll get at least the same # of viewers, probably a bit of an increase due to the intrigue of new maps, and if it's a big tourney doing it then the pros will be forced to learn the new maps if they want $$ winnings and fame
Even if a few of the maps end up being imbalanced in some matchups.. the positive press you'll get from the community for using new maps will far outweigh the negative publicity for any imbalanced games.. which should be pretty nonexistant since the current and older map pools already have/had maps which are imbalanced in some matchups, and it doesn't seem to hurt viewer #s at all.
@ whoever said there aren't any good HOTS maps yet, that couldn't be farther from the truth. Do some looking at the various map forums/sites, there are plenty of good ones.
@ the "but pros don't have time to learn new maps!" argument.. it's about the viewers, not the pros, as someone already said. Not to mention, you can learn most of what there is to know about a new map in ~10 practice games.. it's not even asking that much to learn some new maps.
Just think if you are the director of one of the big tournaments, wouldn't it be nice to be the one all the fans prefer because you use new, exciting maps instead of stale ones? And then if other tournaments follow your lead, you'll be a trendsetting tournament. Sounds like a nice situation to me.
On February 25 2013 11:56 Fatam wrote: @ the "but pros don't have time to learn new maps!" argument.. it's about the viewers, not the pros, as someone already said. Not to mention, you can learn most of what there is to know about a new map in ~10 practice games.. it's not even asking that much to learn some new maps.
While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players. And by giving a familiar map pool for the players, IEM is catering to these players. How many of you actually remember a tournament because they had a good map pool? Early HotS tournaments don't care about so-called "negative publicity for any imbalanced games" either, because the game is so new that it's almost guaranteed to be imbalanced. And yes, most players could get a feel for the new maps in a couple of games, but it takes hundreds, even thousands of games, to fully "get" a map at a pro level.
On February 25 2013 11:32 RParks42 wrote: Wasn't this the tournament that people thought was going to be Wings instead of Swarm? If that's the case then of course they used a map pool like this, you can't expect players who not only haven't played as much HotS, but actively practiced as if it were a Wings tournament to now use maps they have zero idea how to play
If the goal of this terrible map pool was to not screw over players who mostly only practiced WoL, this was a terrible way to go about it. Frankly, the pool looks far more like a case of utter laziness from IEM, and greatly favours the HotS ladder heroes, since this is basically just the HotS ladder pool + Metropolis. You really want to help the players out? Reduce the ridiculous map pool size and actually spend time curating it to have good maps, instead of just a few good ones + a lot of outdated and/or garbage filler.
On February 25 2013 11:47 opterown wrote: i'm ok with using old maps since the metagame should be different anyway, so it won't be so stale to see them hopefully
This is kind of the way I think about it, but at the same time I'm a little dissapointed that IEM didn't even use the good HotS maps. Then again, it's kind of a small qualm since none of us know how this will pan out with the new meta.
On February 25 2013 11:56 Fatam wrote: @ the "but pros don't have time to learn new maps!" argument.. it's about the viewers, not the pros, as someone already said. Not to mention, you can learn most of what there is to know about a new map in ~10 practice games.. it's not even asking that much to learn some new maps.
While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players. And by giving a familiar map pool for the players, IEM is catering to these players. How many of you actually remember a tournament because they had a good map pool? Early HotS tournaments don't care about so-called "negative publicity for any imbalanced games" either, because the game is so new that it's almost guaranteed to be imbalanced. And yes, most players could get a feel for the new maps in a couple of games, but it takes hundreds, even thousands of games, to fully "get" a map at a pro level.
The truth is, most of us don't have time to watch all the premier tournaments out there, and when MLG/GSL/Proleague/IPL uses a fresher map pool than IEM, and have just as good if not better pros, guess which one I skip watching. (Of course, MLG only changed the maps recently for the sake of KeSPA players.)
I buy subscriptions entirely based on the map pool now. I bought a proleague sub because of the new maps, even though the maps suck, their different. I wasn't going to buy a GSL ticket until I saw Icarus and that they were using TPW Silver Sands (and DF Atlas, which may have some issues).
The first tournament with any amount of big name players and a 5 map pool of all new maps will earn a subscription from me without a minute's hesitation.
While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players.
If you're a large tournament all you have to do is have a big prize pool and you will get good players. Whether or not you get big name players has very, very little to do with the map pool. If you have the money, they will come. (as is the case with literally anything in this world)
And proleague would like a word with you. Do you really think proleague would have the same viewer counts if they just used ladder maps? It wouldn't even be close.
While I agree that it is about the viewers, tournaments don't get viewers through the map pool, they get viewers by getting top level players. How do you get top level players? You get a good prize pool and cater to the players.
If you're a large tournament all you have to do is have a big prize pool and you will get good players. Whether or not you get big name players has very, very little to do with the map pool. If you have the money, they will come.
And proleague would like a word with you. Do you really think proleague would have the same viewer counts if they just used ladder maps? It wouldn't even be close.
I agree with the first point, that almost always just having a large prize pool is enough to lure top level players. As to the second part, I agree for the most part, but disagree with a little of it. I think the maps generated an increasing level of buzz for the SPL, and that announcing such changes showed that they were still willing to evolve and fix things if they didn't feel they were right. This increased the confidence in the SPL that the fans had, allowing the people who were still undecided to have one more reason why they should buy the season ticket, and changing the minds of some who didn't think the SPL would be as fun to watch with the full switch to SC2. They would have had the same viewership (not identical but close) regardless, simply because it's the Proleague in my opinion. The maps do help a hell of a lot, but to me that's because they are designed differently and play differently, not just because they are different.
You guys really should not be surprised. They announced the map pool 20 minutes after Vortix asked them on twitter for a map pool. They just picked the ladder maps without any research or asking pros. Foreign tournaments always have shitty map pools and it makes me only want to start watching from the RO8. Long live GSL!!!!
On February 25 2013 14:44 mrRoflpwn wrote: You guys really should not be surprised. They announced the map pool 20 minutes after Vortix asked them on twitter for a map pool. They just picked the ladder maps without any research or asking pros. Foreign tournaments always have shitty map pools and it makes me only want to start watching from the RO8. Long live GSL!!!!
EPT
Antiga Shipyard - No gold base, cross spawn only
