The Hallowed Hall of Champions What is a Triple Crown Championship? Maybe it's something that I made up when I got bored waiting for the GSL to come on. Maaybe it's a feat so rare, so amazing, so awe-inspiring, that only a few truly legendary players have been able to acheive it. Simply put, to earn a Triple Crown, a player must be crowned a champion in a three premier tournaments (as defined by Liquipedia), one in Korea, North America, and Europe each. It is such an honor, the Triple Crown now even has its very own Liquipedia page!
Without further ado, I present you our globe-trotting champions:
The son of Boxer himself, MMA earned his reputation first as one of the most dangerous players in GSTL, taking Slayers to two championships. Also, MMA is the first player to obtain a Triple Crown. Despite starting his career in Korea, he actually won his first title in North America. MLG Anaheim (2011) was the first offline event in North America to allow Koreans to attend, thus beginning the tradition of Korean progamers coming to America to show off their talents and take all the prize money. After being denied a title in the GSL Super Tournament by Polt, MMA took his GSL later that year in GSL October. Finally, MMA rounded out his collection by winning IEM Kiev in January of 2012. LG-IM.MVP Korean Title (2011-1-29):2011 Sony Ericsson Global StarCraft II League January North American Title (2011-7-31):2011 MLG Pro Circuit: Anaheim European Title (2012-8-19):IEM Season VII - Cologne
Let's face it, what hasn't this guy won? He has not one, but four GSL titles, a WCG title, an MLG title, a Blizzcon title, and an IEM title. Men would create the most difficult tournaments known to the world of eSports only to them conquered by Mvp. The question was not if Mvp could win every tournament ever created, but when. The year 2011 was the year of Mvp's greatest success. He won both his Korean and North American title this year. He cooled off somewhat in 2012 before coming through for his final title of the three in Germany, some 13 months after his MLG victory. StarTale_Life Korean Title (2012-10-20):2012 Global StarCraft II League Season 4: Code S North American Title (2012-11-4):MLG Pro Circuit 2012 – Fall Championship European Title (2013-1-26):Iron Squid – Chapter II
GSL championship at age 15. First ever player to walk the Code S royal road. Titles on three continents at age 16. Life is a young prodigy, a Flash-like character for the SC2 scene. I can only imagine that there is much more in store for Life. Let me simply end this with one more stat. The total number of days from his first title to his third: 98. The "Little" Triple Crown There are two players who clearly stand above the rest. They have traveled across the globe and crushed nerds of every type. However, the third premier title has eluded both these players. That is why I bring you the "Little" Triple Crown, awarded to these players for earning two premier titles and a major title in the three primary Starcraft scenes.
DongRaeGu's story is not unlike that of MMA. DongRaeGu first made his name in the GSTL while success eluded him in the GSL. DRG also took his first title overseas. He has now established himself alongside Lord Nestea as the most dominant Zerg of the Wings of Liberty era. Perhaps what we will remember DongRaeGu best for will be his great rivalries; the great storylines of DRG vs. MMA, DRG vs. MarineKing, and DRG vs. Genius will live in the hearts of fans forever. SK.MC Korean Title (2010-12-10):2010 Sony Ericsson Starcraft II Open Season 3 European Title (2012-1-8):HomeStory Cup IV North American Title (2012-5-27):Red Bull Battlegrounds: Austin
Many people thought that MC would be the first player to win a Triple Crown. The BossToss made much of his reputation in 2011 and 2012 by two-basing beating up nerds anytime, anywhere, and, despite never actually taking a premier title in North America, winning a multitude of major events (topped off by a $15000 performance at Red Bull's LAN in Austin) earns him a "Little" Triple Crown. Was it MC's ability to use tried and true Protoss builds with expert execution that won him so many games overseas, or was it his dance moves? Perhaps we will never know. Almost There There are a few players who are one title away from a Triple Crown. Need a North American title: Polt, MC Need a Korean title: Huk, Stephano, Hero, Taeja, Puma
I want to thank all of you for making your pilgrimage to this holy ground. Feel free to bring an offering of fan-art or graphics or something, I'll try to add it to the OP.
Good job actually making a thread for it. Probably deserves it's own Liquipedia page. It's quite amazing to win a major in all three major SC2 hotbeds.
This is a nice idea. However DRG never won a title in Europe since he won IEM in New York. He still needs a European title, except if you count DH Valencia which is listed as Major tournament but not Premier.
On February 14 2013 19:16 Opera wrote: This is a nice idea. However DRG never won a title in Europe since he won IEM in New York. He still needs a European title, except if you count DH Valencia which is listed as Major tournament but not Premier.
I'm going to make an executive decision and give it to him anyway. I already did all the writing and BBCode, and I'm slightly scared of the (rabid) DRG fanboys...
Well honestly you are breaking your own rules now.
On February 14 2013 19:06 jsemmens wrote: Simply put, to earn a Triple Crown, a player must be crowned a champion in a three premier tournaments (as defined by Liquipedia), one in Korea, North America, and Europe each.
Which simply isn't the case for DRG no matter how awesome he is, give him a special mention or something.
A GSL title is leagues beyond other tournaments; while it's interesting to see who's won a title from each major geographic region in Starcraft, it's definitely not as impressive as winning multiple Korean (or Global, like Blizzard World Championship) titles. Just my 2c, still a very interesting read!
On February 14 2013 19:37 Xpace wrote: A GSL title is leagues beyond other tournaments; while it's interesting to see who's won a title from each major geographic region in Starcraft, it's definitely not as impressive as winning multiple Korean (or Global, like Blizzard World Championship) titles. Just my 2c, still a very interesting read!
Where the hell are the SEA tournaments! >:
Yeah, I'm looking forward to Australia & China developing high level scenes. Perhaps, in a few years, we'll have "grand slam" champions for players who win in all 4 regions.
On February 14 2013 22:58 Dodgin wrote: As much as DRG is a boss I have to agree that he shouldn't be on the list since you set the rules as premier tournaments.
tbh Dreamhack valencia's prize pool was nearly 3 times that of IEM cologne and kiev and the player pool wasnt that much easier but I dont know what makes a premier tournament
On February 14 2013 22:58 Dodgin wrote: As much as DRG is a boss I have to agree that he shouldn't be on the list since you set the rules as premier tournaments.
pretty much this, an invitational event with 8 players is "not enough" to be on that list
he actually won his first title in North America. MLG Anaheim (2011) was the first offline event in North America to allow Koreans to attend, thus beginning the tradition of Korean progamers coming to America to show off their talents and take all the prize money.
Umm.. Did you mean Columbus? I wouldn't have cared normally but i'm from Ohio, and MMA winning MLG columbus is one of my top memorable moments in esports (it's really the first thing that got me to be really really into esports)
Other than that, great thread! Life only taking 98 days to win all 3, i doubt that's ever gonna be beaten.
On February 15 2013 00:09 freeshooter wrote: Hmm... Redbull LAN doesn't count for MC? It was pretty stacked with some good players with MC overwhelming ST Bomber to take the victory.
It wasn't defined as a Premier tournament though so he doesn't qualify. Same reason DRG shouldn't be on that list.
On February 15 2013 00:09 freeshooter wrote: Hmm... Redbull LAN doesn't count for MC? It was pretty stacked with some good players with MC overwhelming ST Bomber to take the victory.
It wasn't defined as a Premier tournament though so he doesn't qualify. Same reason DRG shouldn't be on that list.
It probably should have been a premier tournament, the reason it was not counted was because it was 100% invites.
On February 15 2013 00:01 TheVoicedElk wrote: Right if EG-TL wins proleague would that count as Stephano, Hero, Taeja and the like all getting the korean title?? or is it just individual results??
No, individual results.
It would be nice to make this into a liquipedia article.
As far as I'm concerned, DH Valencia (8 players, all invited, a really weak player pool compared to other tournaments) and Red Bull Lan (Good players but all invited, maybe this one is closer to a premier than DH Valencia) are not premier tournaments. MC and DRG have won a lot of others things and don't need this achievement to have a great career, I'm not against keeping the standards for this achievement high.
Does IEM's in Asia-pacific not count for anything? Idra won in Guangzhou, which is a premier tournament, so surely this should count towards something?
Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
I ask because in other sports (tennis, baseball, horse racing) I think it's a yearly and not career accomplishment and therefore triple crowns are more rare. It highlights a player who's absolutely dominant over a short time-span. SC2 is only a few years old, and in a few years time you would never see 4 triple crown winners in the other sports I mentioned.
Maybe it can just be broken up into "Triple Crown" and "Career Triple Crown"
Yeah, NaNiwa, ThorZAiN, Rain, HerO, HuK, IdrA, LucifroN, all a bunch of noobs and pushovers consistently. Definitely no big deal to win a tournament with that soft of a player pool. + Show Spoiler +
troll face
Edit:
On February 15 2013 01:38 Vul wrote: Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
If we're going by standards that extreme, not even Life would qualify. Iron Squid ended in late January of 2013
While I love the concept, I would love to have those 3 tournaments that are a part of the Triple Crown instead of just winning three popular tournaments in each of the three regions. Horse Racing hasn't had a Triple Crown since 1978 and would love to have it much more uncommon. The Royal Roader is much harder of a feat in my opinion, but those three you listed is also a worth while accomplishment.
On February 15 2013 01:38 Vul wrote: Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
I ask because in other sports (tennis, baseball, horse racing) I think it's a yearly and not career accomplishment and therefore triple crowns are more rare. It highlights a player who's absolutely dominant over a short time-span. SC2 is only a few years old, and in a few years time you would never see 4 triple crown winners in the other sports I mentioned.
Maybe it can just be broken up into "Triple Crown" and "Career Triple Crown"
What you said is true about other sports. Tennis is actually the Grand Slam. However, a season/year is much more 'structured'. Every calendar year in tennis has 4 Slams (US, Aussie, French, British). For baseball, it is actually leading in statistics (HR, RBI, batting avg) for a season and for horse racing, it was the 3 big races.
So I think it is very hard to apply the same standards to SC2. In early 2011, korean players didn't travel as much to NA/EU events. It wasn't until late 2011 when the tournaments started paying for travel. Also, GSL seasons were much 'closer' together so players didn't have as much time to travel. So it is difficult to have a 'fair' standard imo.
On February 15 2013 01:38 Vul wrote: Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
I ask because in other sports (tennis, baseball, horse racing) I think it's a yearly and not career accomplishment and therefore triple crowns are more rare. It highlights a player who's absolutely dominant over a short time-span. SC2 is only a few years old, and in a few years time you would never see 4 triple crown winners in the other sports I mentioned.
Maybe it can just be broken up into "Triple Crown" and "Career Triple Crown"
That's a valid point and I'm convinced. Life is the only triple crown player.
On February 14 2013 19:08 Fionn wrote: I brought this up forever ago in articles.
Good job actually making a thread for it. Probably deserves it's own Liquipedia page. It's quite amazing to win a major in all three major SC2 hotbeds.
I disagree. Look at some of those tournaments. The 2011 MLGs, Global Challenge Kiev, Dreamhack Valencia. Not exactly stacked. Not worth a Liquipedia page in my opinion.
On February 15 2013 01:38 Vul wrote: Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
I ask because in other sports (tennis, baseball, horse racing) I think it's a yearly and not career accomplishment and therefore triple crowns are more rare. It highlights a player who's absolutely dominant over a short time-span. SC2 is only a few years old, and in a few years time you would never see 4 triple crown winners in the other sports I mentioned.
Maybe it can just be broken up into "Triple Crown" and "Career Triple Crown"
That's a valid point and I'm convinced. Life is the only triple crown player.
Except Life won Iron Squid in 2013.
Limiting to one year only is stupid, it doesn't have to copy other sports because It's not other sports, It's Starcraft.
On February 15 2013 01:38 Vul wrote: Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
If we're going by standards that extreme, not even Life would qualify. Iron Squid ended in late January of 2013
All of his wins happened within a four-month time span, it'd be arbitrary to discount his Iron Squid win just because it happened after New Year's.
If you're going to count it like that then Mvp is also a one year span triple crown winner, Blizzcon ( NA ) in Oct 2011, 2012 GSL Season 2 (KR) in May 2012 and IEM Cologne (EU) in August 2012.
On February 15 2013 01:45 DavoS wrote: If you're going to count it like that then Mvp is also a one year span triple crown winner, Blizzcon ( NA ) in Oct 2011, 2012 GSL Season 2 (KR) in May 2012 and IEM Cologne (EU) in August 2012.
On February 15 2013 01:50 RiSkyToss wrote: I think nestea should definitely be in there, in early 2011 he looked absolutely godlike, only mvp was even close to nesteas skill level at the time.
Same for taeja in early 2012, but taejas reign only lasted a few months.
How can OP say Taeja has a major american title (MLG Arena) and then not consider the RedBull LAN a major tourney for MC... Arena is a big deal but not that prestigious compared to the MLG championship weekend...
There's a pretty huge difference in the prestige and talent pool in those 3 tournaments though, as well as the amount of preparation progamers give to each. OSL is probably the only tournament that can be equated on the level of GSL.
I remember talking about Polt making it to the Triple Crown back in November/December 2012, when he came pretty close to winning IPL5 or NASL. Thanks for bringing this up again though, I think more people should be exposed to the idea of a Triple Crown.
Would like to note that IdrA should be added to the "Only needed/needs one more title" list.
IEM Season VI - Global Challenge Guangzhou 1st Place
2011 MLG North American Invitational 1st Place
2011 ASUS ROG Stars Invite 1st Place
IPL Season 1 1st Place
All of the above took place in 2011. They're all NA/EU titles with the exception of the IEM victory being in China. People forget IdrA was one of the best players in the world in 2011.
On February 15 2013 01:38 Vul wrote: Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
I ask because in other sports (tennis, baseball, horse racing) I think it's a yearly and not career accomplishment and therefore triple crowns are more rare. It highlights a player who's absolutely dominant over a short time-span. SC2 is only a few years old, and in a few years time you would never see 4 triple crown winners in the other sports I mentioned.
Maybe it can just be broken up into "Triple Crown" and "Career Triple Crown"
That's a valid point and I'm convinced. Life is the only triple crown player.
Except Life won Iron Squid in 2013.
Limiting to one year only is stupid, it doesn't have to copy other sports because It's not other sports, It's Starcraft.
On February 15 2013 01:38 Vul wrote: Shouldn't winning a triple crown mean doing this all in one year?
Edit: By that standard Life would be the only triple crown winner because all of his wins happened in 2012.
If we're going by standards that extreme, not even Life would qualify. Iron Squid ended in late January of 2013
All of his wins happened within a four-month time span, it'd be arbitrary to discount his Iron Squid win just because it happened after New Year's.
If you're going to count it like that then Mvp is also a one year span triple crown winner, Blizzcon ( NA ) in Oct 2011, 2012 GSL Season 2 (KR) in May 2012 and IEM Cologne (EU) in August 2012.
Well if we didn't want it to be somewhat like other sports then we wouldn't call it a triple crown, we would just come up with something completely different. It won't be like other sports because they have recognized competitions which are designated as triple crown events. One of the problems with talking about a triple crown in SC2 at all is that we don't have a system like that. We all know that GSL is harder than MLG but the Aussie Open and the US Open draw from the same talent pool.
Like I said earlier, my opinion is that limiting it to one year better reflects the spirit of what a triple crown generally means. But you could also recognize players for a career triple crown. They are just two different kinds of accomplishments, one recognizes longevity, the other recognizes dominance in a short time span.
If you made it so it has to be within a year of the first win then the list would actually still be MMA Mvp and Life, but if it has to be in the same calendar year then no one has done it.
I'd argue that this was less impressive than the 13 months between Mvp's victory, as Mvp's time shows a longer dominance, but maybe not as powerful as one.
I see everyone's point about DRG. Because of his impressive accomplishments, I'm going to leave him up here with a disclaimer (my OP, my rules ). When I get home tonight, I'm going to make an "official" Liquipedia page for this, and I don't think he should qualify for that page.
On February 15 2013 01:50 RiSkyToss wrote: I think nestea should definitely be in there, in early 2011 he looked absolutely godlike, only mvp was even close to nesteas skill level at the time.
Same for taeja in early 2012, but taejas reign only lasted a few months.
I think you misunderstood the point of the title. This isn't about how dominant a player was, but simply winning a premier tournament in NA, EU and Korea. There isn't much subjectivity about this, other than possibly which tournaments may be considered premier (but Liquipedia has a pretty solid definition).
[QUOTE]On February 15 2013 01:45 DavoS wrote: [QUOTE]On February 14 2013 19:29 opterown wrote: [url=http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_DreamHack/Valencia_Invitational]http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_DreamHack/Valencia_Invitational[/url] eh i wouldn't count this really[/QUOTE]
Yeah, NaNiwa, ThorZAiN, Rain, HerO, HuK, IdrA, LucifroN, all a bunch of noobs and pushovers consistently. Definitely no big deal to win a tournament with that soft of a player pool. + Show Spoiler +
troll face
Its a small player pool, its not fair to count that as a major tourney and not the Red Bull Battle Grounds for MC which had a much larger talent pool and much better players. (Stephano,bomber,squirtle, parting,violet, and taeja among others)
Yeah, NaNiwa, ThorZAiN, Rain, HerO, HuK, IdrA, LucifroN, all a bunch of noobs and pushovers consistently. Definitely no big deal to win a tournament with that soft of a player pool. + Show Spoiler +
troll face
Its a small player pool, its not fair to count that as a major tourney and not the Red Bull Battle Grounds for MC which had a much larger talent pool and much better players. (Stephano,bomber,squirtle, parting,violet, and taeja among others)
Let's not argue about it. I do admit that I did not mean to break my own rule about what is considered a premier tournament, it was an accident. I have left DRG on here to show that he has impressive results on all three continents, but with an asterisk by his ID to show that he is not officially a triple crowner. If you look on the liquipedia page, I have used the fully correct definition, and DRG is not listed as a triple crowner.
Also, in fairness to MC, if anyone would like to do a short writeup on MC, I will add it to the OP with an asterisk as well.
On February 15 2013 06:00 Shellshock1122 wrote: I think the next one will probably be Polt. Wouldn't be surprised to see him win a NA title since he lives in the US now
Isn't the only Premier tournament left in NA before HotS IPL6? That'll be tough to win for sure.
On February 15 2013 06:00 Shellshock1122 wrote: I think the next one will probably be Polt. Wouldn't be surprised to see him win a NA title since he lives in the US now
Isn't the only Premier tournament left in NA before HotS IPL6? That'll be tough to win for sure.
Is it limited to WoL only? I didnt see that in the OP but I might have missed it. Or does it have to be all 3 in the same game?
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
To be honest, you probably should take that up with the folks who run Liquipedia. The list I used was the official list there. I believe that part of the rationale is that part of what makes an event premier is the presentation and hype associated with a big brand name, but I'm not really responsible for deciding the classification.
To solve the dispute about whether or not DRG and MC should get titles based on whether their tournament wins were "important enough" I've added a new section which allows them to gain the recognition they deserve without having an asterisk by their names, but still upholds the integrity of the true definition of the Triple Crown (i.e. 3 Liquipedia certified premier championships).
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
How is IEM not a premier event? Every IEM this year had a bigger prize pool than any of the DreamHack Opens (anything not DH Summer/Winter) and even Summer was only about $1000 bigger than the smaller IEM events and had a smaller prize pool than IEM Cologne this season.
Just because DH is ridiculously top-heavy with their prize pool doesn't mean that it's bigger, it only makes people think it's bigger because you see big numbers. I like IEM because they pay more players adequately and make it worthwhile for players from all over the world to actually attend.
DH Valencia 2011 was simply an eight man invitational where you needed to win three series to win the whole thing, that's the same amount of series wins Lucifron needed to win the IPL DICE Showdown recently. Was that a premier event too? I mean, they had a $10,000 prize pool that must mean something.
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
How is IEM not a premier event? Every IEM this year had a bigger prize pool than any of the DreamHack Opens (anything not DH Summer/Winter) and even Summer was only about $1000 bigger than the smaller IEM events and had a smaller prize pool than IEM Cologne this season.
Just because DH is ridiculously top-heavy with their prize pool doesn't mean that it's bigger, it only makes people think it's bigger because you see big numbers. I like IEM because they pay more players adequately and make it worthwhile for players from all over the world to actually attend.
DH Valencia 2011 was simply an eight man invitational where you needed to win three series to win the whole thing, that's the same amount of series wins Lucifron needed to win the IPL DICE Showdown recently. Was that a premier event too? I mean, they had a $10,000 prize pool that must mean something.
So according to your logic, a bigger prize pool categorizes an event as as premier level tournament? What exactly decides an event being in the "premier" category?
On February 15 2013 06:00 Shellshock1122 wrote: I think the next one will probably be Polt. Wouldn't be surprised to see him win a NA title since he lives in the US now
Last chance is MLG Dallas (if he qualifies) and IPL6 in WoL (which doesn't have the scariest line-up around). Maybe he might get a NA championship in HotS, but most would say it wouldn't carry over into WoL.
I think Polt and MC should be able to get their triple crown soon, especially for Polt since he's studying in the US. However, other than TaeJa, I feel those that need a Korean win most likely won't get their triple crown.
Awesome post, wonder how many more triple crowns we'll be having before the last game of LotV is played.
On February 15 2013 06:00 Shellshock1122 wrote: I think the next one will probably be Polt. Wouldn't be surprised to see him win a NA title since he lives in the US now
Last chance is MLG Dallas (if he qualifies) and IPL6 in WoL (which doesn't have the scariest line-up around). Maybe he might get a NA championship in HotS, but most would say it wouldn't carry over into WoL.
Well there are still a lot of players that could qualify for IPL6 (plus 6 from LG-IM and then 6 from ST/MVP winner)
Oh yea EG could make it if they beat IM so theyre not making it.
On February 15 2013 06:00 Shellshock1122 wrote: I think the next one will probably be Polt. Wouldn't be surprised to see him win a NA title since he lives in the US now
Last chance is MLG Dallas (if he qualifies) and IPL6 in WoL (which doesn't have the scariest line-up around). Maybe he might get a NA championship in HotS, but most would say it wouldn't carry over into WoL.
I thought people wouldnt want these things to carry over but when the poll was put up in the unofficial world champion thread the winning choice was to continue it through the game change. I guess not everyone sees it as a new game since it's just an expansion. I could see the argument either way
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
How is IEM not a premier event? Every IEM this year had a bigger prize pool than any of the DreamHack Opens (anything not DH Summer/Winter) and even Summer was only about $1000 bigger than the smaller IEM events and had a smaller prize pool than IEM Cologne this season.
Just because DH is ridiculously top-heavy with their prize pool doesn't mean that it's bigger, it only makes people think it's bigger because you see big numbers. I like IEM because they pay more players adequately and make it worthwhile for players from all over the world to actually attend.
DH Valencia 2011 was simply an eight man invitational where you needed to win three series to win the whole thing, that's the same amount of series wins Lucifron needed to win the IPL DICE Showdown recently. Was that a premier event too? I mean, they had a $10,000 prize pool that must mean something.
So according to your logic, a bigger prize pool categorizes an event as as premier level tournament? What exactly decides an event being in the "premier" category?
Premier Tournaments offer an outstanding prize pool, are frequently played out offline, and feature the best players from all over the world. They are commonly held by well-established franchises and are considered especially prestigious amongst the community.
In comparison, Dreamhack Valencia 2011 and Red Bull Battlegrounds come under "Major Tournaments". Major Tournaments feature a large prize pool and a good number of top-tier players. They are generally one-time events which take place online.
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
IEM runs qualifiers. Valencia and Red Bull were both invites only. Prize pool is nice, but if that's a qualifier then the Lyn's 20,000+ dollar tourney in China would have to be counted higher than MMA's Anaheim. You can say the skill level at Red Bull and Valencia was higher than say IEM Singapore. But we still have to exclude invitationals as they give an unfair advantage as potential players never got the chance to ever participate.
The real question is what we think are requirements for a tournament to be considered a premier tournament. Here are some polls to think about:
Poll: How much Prize Money is needed to consider a Tournament Premier?
10,000 (12)
50%
20,000 or more (8)
33%
15,000 (3)
13%
5,000 (1)
4%
24 total votes
Your vote: How much Prize Money is needed to consider a Tournament Premier?
(Vote): 5,000 (Vote): 10,000 (Vote): 15,000 (Vote): 20,000 or more
Poll: Does a Premier Tournament need Qualifiers
Yes (23)
88%
No (3)
12%
26 total votes
Your vote: Does a Premier Tournament need Qualifiers
On February 15 2013 13:06 ThePlayer33 wrote: MMA won iron squid I is probably more significant than IEM....
It's listed by when they won their first premier on that continent, not importance. His IEM win was in January and Iron Squid was in May. That's why they list GSL January 2011 as Mvp's Premier Korean win. It was his first GSL win
I think a tournament can be a premier tournament in NA or EU without Korean participation. However, I find it unlikely that a Premier tournament would lack Korean participation
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
IEM runs qualifiers. Valencia and Red Bull were both invites only. Prize pool is nice, but if that's a qualifier then the Lyn's 20,000+ dollar tourney in China would have to be counted higher than MMA's Anaheim. You can say the skill level at Red Bull and Valencia was higher than say IEM Singapore. But we still have to exclude invitationals as they give an unfair advantage as potential players never got the chance to ever participate.
The real question is what we think are requirements for a tournament to be considered a premier tournament. Here are some polls to think about:
Poll: How much Prize Money is needed to consider a Tournament Premier?
10,000 (12)
50%
20,000 or more (8)
33%
15,000 (3)
13%
5,000 (1)
4%
24 total votes
Your vote: How much Prize Money is needed to consider a Tournament Premier?
(Vote): 5,000 (Vote): 10,000 (Vote): 15,000 (Vote): 20,000 or more
Poll: Does a Premier Tournament need Qualifiers
Yes (23)
88%
No (3)
12%
26 total votes
Your vote: Does a Premier Tournament need Qualifiers
I still don't think winning 3 tournaments in different years shouldn't be consider a triple crown in my opinion it should be something harder to obtain like the kentucky triple crown, win three premier events in one year.
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
IEM runs qualifiers. Valencia and Red Bull were both invites only. Prize pool is nice, but if that's a qualifier then the Lyn's 20,000+ dollar tourney in China would have to be counted higher than MMA's Anaheim. You can say the skill level at Red Bull and Valencia was higher than say IEM Singapore. But we still have to exclude invitationals as they give an unfair advantage as potential players never got the chance to ever participate.
The real question is what we think are requirements for a tournament to be considered a premier tournament. Here are some polls to think about:
Poll: How much Prize Money is needed to consider a Tournament Premier?
10,000 (12)
50%
20,000 or more (8)
33%
15,000 (3)
13%
5,000 (1)
4%
24 total votes
Your vote: How much Prize Money is needed to consider a Tournament Premier?
(Vote): 5,000 (Vote): 10,000 (Vote): 15,000 (Vote): 20,000 or more
Poll: Does a Premier Tournament need Qualifiers
Yes (23)
88%
No (3)
12%
26 total votes
Your vote: Does a Premier Tournament need Qualifiers
I still don't think winning 3 tournaments in different years shouldn't be consider a triple crown in my opinion it should be something harder to obtain like the kentucky triple crown, win three premier events in one year.
sorry don't know how to add spoilers
Actually, if you want it to be like the horse racing triple crown, it won't be three premier events in one year. You would have to win the 3 specific events (Kentucky, Preakness, Belmont).
On February 15 2013 14:32 yurta wrote: I like the concept, but a Triple Crown is always the same races three races, so in theory it should be the same 3 tournaments
ie. GSL / MLG / IEM
no ironsquids / HSC / redbulls.
Id add Dreamhack to that list of the "big 3" and IPL. Making it, win any 3 of these 5 :p
I think thats how it should be three really top quality hard to win tournaments/ of curse we include GSL/ and then two more tournaments where the competition is so stacked that winning all three of them in one year should be almost imposible that way we only get elite players to be worthy of such title.
On February 15 2013 14:39 nichan wrote: I think thats how it should be three really top quality hard to win tournaments/ of curse we include GSL/ and then two more tournaments where the competition is so stacked that winning all three of them in one year should be almost imposible that way we only get elite players to be worthy of such title.
I agree, GSL/OSL/BWC are the three most prestigous tournaments. If you win all of those in one calendar year, thats freaking insane. We probably would never have a triple crown winner, but there hasnt been on in horse racing for decades so its cool. Of course this all depends if blizzard will do a world championship series or not.
On February 15 2013 14:39 nichan wrote: I think thats how it should be three really top quality hard to win tournaments/ of curse we include GSL/ and then two more tournaments where the competition is so stacked that winning all three of them in one year should be almost imposible that way we only get elite players to be worthy of such title.
I agree, GSL/OSL/BWC are the three most prestigous tournaments. If you win all of those in one calendar year, thats freaking insane. We probably would never have a triple crown winner, but there hasnt been on in horse racing for decades so its cool. Of course this all depends if blizzard will do a world championship series or not.
But just imagine if there was to be a winner of all three in one year. and then another one in 4/5 years the excitement and hype imagine someone get close by winning two and how good of a roller coaster that would be and how sad if they fall on the last one.
On February 15 2013 14:39 nichan wrote: I think thats how it should be three really top quality hard to win tournaments/ of curse we include GSL/ and then two more tournaments where the competition is so stacked that winning all three of them in one year should be almost impossible that way we only get elite players to be worthy of such title.
There are two reasons why I don't feel this is feasible:
1. This definition might have to be changed in the future. There is no guarantee that these tournaments will keep being held every year. If one of them discontinued then it would make it impossible for any new players to gain the achievement unless the requirements were changed, an undesirable thing (in my view).
2. In other sports (horse racing, etc.) the events are always scheduled so that they do not overlap. Therefore it is likely that a player/horse will get to play in every event on the circuit.
In SC2, however, there is a good chance that the tournaments will conflict with each other (especially with GSL taking 3 months to play each season). By making it so that the event can be any premier event on a single continent, the players are given flexibility to attend an event that fits into their schedule.
As far as it goes on whether or not a player can combine WoL tournaments and HoTS tournaments to make a triple crown, I haven't made up my mind. Honestly, I want to wait and see just how different HoTS is before deciding.
On February 15 2013 06:11 nichan wrote: I think if someone wins the GSL/NASL/IPL in the same year it should be consider a triple crown.
It should be GSL, OSL and BWC (if thats going to be a yearly thing)
and could someone clarify why IEM is a premier event and some others like Dreamhack Valencia and Red Bull Battlegrounds are not? IEM's prize pool is kind of awful to be honest
How is IEM not a premier event? Every IEM this year had a bigger prize pool than any of the DreamHack Opens (anything not DH Summer/Winter) and even Summer was only about $1000 bigger than the smaller IEM events and had a smaller prize pool than IEM Cologne this season.
Just because DH is ridiculously top-heavy with their prize pool doesn't mean that it's bigger, it only makes people think it's bigger because you see big numbers. I like IEM because they pay more players adequately and make it worthwhile for players from all over the world to actually attend.
DH Valencia 2011 was simply an eight man invitational where you needed to win three series to win the whole thing, that's the same amount of series wins Lucifron needed to win the IPL DICE Showdown recently. Was that a premier event too? I mean, they had a $10,000 prize pool that must mean something.
So according to your logic, a bigger prize pool categorizes an event as as premier level tournament? What exactly decides an event being in the "premier" category?
That's not my definition, TommyP just said he doesn't understand why IEMs are premier events because their prize pools are awful and I clarified that their prize pools are way bigger than the prize pool of an event he wanted to be a premier event.
On February 17 2013 22:02 bittman wrote: I like this. Agreed with Fionn that I wouldn't mind seeing this Liquipedia'd and maintained as a discussion topic.
I dont get how are several tournamets (IEM singapore,HSC VI, DH Buchurest/Valencia and many others) listed as premier and counted as one while some (World esport masters, Redbull lan..) are not. By the Liquipedia definiton these are more of a premier than major and other way round.
I think MC has the "big" crown more than lets say MMA.
On February 17 2013 23:09 Scarecrow wrote: The Grand Slam should be an IEM, MLG, DH and GSL in the same year.
I don't know about DH. It is mostly Euros + Koreans on foreigner teams. And IEM lineup depends on the Scheduling of other events. In terms of tournaments with the top players, it is probably GSL, OSL, MLG, IPL, IS (mostly online)
I decided to bump this thread: with 2013 WCS EU championship, Mvp has achieved second Triple Crown: GSL World Championship + BlizzCon 2011 + 2013 WCS EU.
Two Triple Crowns is more titles than any other player have won...
On May 29 2013 18:35 nimdil wrote: I decided to bump this thread: with 2013 WCS EU championship, Mvp has achieved second Triple Crown: GSL World Championship + BlizzCon 2011 + 2013 WCS EU.
Two Triple Crowns is more titles than any other player have won...
On May 29 2013 18:35 nimdil wrote: I decided to bump this thread: with 2013 WCS EU championship, Mvp has achieved second Triple Crown: GSL World Championship + BlizzCon 2011 + 2013 WCS EU.
Two Triple Crowns is more titles than any other player have won...
Also TSL3 final was in New York so ThorZaIN kind of is "almost there" with DreamHack Stockholm 2012. I doubt however that he will ever be "there" considering he would have to move to South Korea to participate in WCS there... (unless WCG in China will be counted as Korean).
On the comment above, is TSL 3 considered NA because the final happened to be in NY? Or is TSL considered NA in general? I don't agree with either since it's really just an online event. If we're going by the second though, Creator is also in the "one away from triple crown" category since he won WCS Korea 2012.
On July 01 2013 10:43 Gorlin wrote: Grats to Polt on the Triple crown!
On the comment above, is TSL 3 considered NA because the final happened to be in NY? Or is TSL considered NA in general? I don't agree with either since it's really just an online event. If we're going by the second though, Creator is also in the "one away from triple crown" category since he won WCS Korea 2012.
TSL3 - It's kind of NA. TSL4 shouldn't probably by any region as it was completely online (so I removed Creator's entry). Triple Crown
There is a number of tournaments without any region - mostly IEMs (in China, Singapore, Brazil), last WCG, WCS Asia and WC. And of course IPL2 and TSL4 which were both 100% online. Note that similarly to TSL3, IronSquid was mostly online event (last two rounds offline) and NASL kind of as well considering it - depending on the season - only last few rounds were offline. It's hard to point how much of the tournament has to be offline to be region tied.
On July 03 2013 19:42 zmsFlood wrote: Congratulations to Polt for joining the other triple crowned legends. Who will be the first foreigner to get the triple crown!? Might be a while~~
There won't be any foreigner as the only premier events in Korea are WCS KR GSL/OSL - and no foreigner has a real shot at the title, especially now as the title prevents player to play WCS in EU/NA - or the season 1 finals which at least on paper has a bit more chance to happen...
On July 03 2013 19:42 zmsFlood wrote: Congratulations to Polt for joining the other triple crowned legends. Who will be the first foreigner to get the triple crown!? Might be a while~~
There won't be any foreigner as the only premier events in Korea are WCS KR GSL/OSL - and no foreigner has a real shot at the title, especially now as the title prevents player to play WCS in EU/NA - or the season 1 finals which at least on paper has a bit more chance to happen...
BlizzardCup now renamed Hot6cup is still going to happen and thats a Premier Event. Hopefully some foreigners will be invited.
On July 03 2013 19:42 zmsFlood wrote: Congratulations to Polt for joining the other triple crowned legends. Who will be the first foreigner to get the triple crown!? Might be a while~~
There won't be any foreigner as the only premier events in Korea are WCS KR GSL/OSL - and no foreigner has a real shot at the title, especially now as the title prevents player to play WCS in EU/NA - or the season 1 finals which at least on paper has a bit more chance to happen...
BlizzardCup now renamed Hot6cup is still going to happen and thats a Premier Event. Hopefully some foreigners will be invited.
Not exactly easier to win. I don't think any foreigner has a shot at a title in a tournament with most top koreans present. Even IPL3 and NASL3 wasn't stucked with mind blowing korean line-up.
On July 03 2013 19:42 zmsFlood wrote: Congratulations to Polt for joining the other triple crowned legends. Who will be the first foreigner to get the triple crown!? Might be a while~~
Gogo Sjow for a Little Triple: IeSF 2011 IEM European Championships 2011 Just needs NA title...
Or monchi for a very little triple: IeSF 2012 EPS Winter 2012 Just needs NA title...
Unfortunately I think that these two might be the only two to ever win a title on Korean soil.
Shouldn't a triple crown have to be in a single year? It's nice to win a title on each continent, but doing it a year and a half later seems a little meh.
On July 03 2013 21:51 Myles wrote: Shouldn't a triple crown have to be in a single year? It's nice to win a title on each continent, but doing it a year and a half later seems a little meh.
Could be argued that the great the time span the more impressive. For a player to stay at premier tournament winning condition is not easy.
On July 03 2013 21:51 Myles wrote: Shouldn't a triple crown have to be in a single year? It's nice to win a title on each continent, but doing it a year and a half later seems a little meh.
Could be argued that the great the time span the more impressive. For a player to stay at premier tournament winning condition is not easy.
Except they don't - they just rise to peak once in a while.
Look at SC:BW - what was more impressive: When one of the Bonjwa went on a hot streak to win at least 3 out of 4 starleague consecutive finals (like BoxeR's OSL, OSL, runner-up OSL, KPGA or Flash's MSL, MSL, OSL 2010/2011) - or - July Zerg peaking every in - well - July's of 2004, 2005 and 2008?
I really hope one of the Protoss player will get triple crown.Whichever starcraft it is - highest glory goes to terran, then to zerg and then to protoss.
The RBBG:Austin status was revised by TL/LP community and it was elevated to premier status. Therefore MC is retroactively 2nd player to achieve Triple Crown, after MMA.
Definitely a major accomplishment on each players part but I'd love to see a Pro Random player win 3 major tournaments. Then again no-one plays random so guess I'll be waiting a while.
EPT
Liquipedia), one in Korea, North America, and Europe each. It is such an honor, the 
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