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PandaTank
South Africa255 Posts
On February 02 2013 10:00 forsooth wrote: You're clearly not playing the same game as the rest of us. Only at a GM level for the last ~2 years with thousands of games played. So clearly not at all. I bet your credentials are far more impressive for being such a smart-ass constructive contributor. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12022 Posts
:/ the terran will dart in, in between the locust spawns If you're letting people run in when there's no locusts spawning you're not burrowing properly. You can burrow in such a way that there's always locusts. Nobody does it because it's easier to select all and press the burrow key. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
On February 02 2013 17:28 PandaTank wrote: Only at a GM level for the last ~2 years with thousands of games played. So clearly not at all. I bet your credentials are far more impressive for being such a smart-ass constructive contributor. Can you give us comments on what exactly makes you think the defender has a considerable advantage? Your posts have no more constructiveness than those you accuse of being useless, but with said games/experience under your belt, you have the capacity to contribute to discussion. From what I know, I think a high-ground advantage would be interesting at least to test. Would definitely be a big change of which the balancers would probably be leery, however. | ||
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iky43210
United States2099 Posts
See the latest whirlwind map or whatever with expansions at every edge of the map. Sure it may not be balance, but expect to see alot of actions across all races mid game on that map | ||
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sunglasseson
United States145 Posts
On February 02 2013 17:32 Qikz wrote: Damn, the way it was initially worded in the title I thought Blizzard were actually going to add a decent highground mechanic. :/ If you're letting people run in when there's no locusts spawning you're not burrowing properly. You can burrow in such a way that there's always locusts. Nobody does it because it's easier to select all and press the burrow key. assuming we have enough swarm hosts to make a dent. too few locust spawns and it doesnt kill anything, to many and they dart in mid game you cant have 20 hosts | ||
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Penev
28472 Posts
-1 Range when attacking Highground Deserves to be tested imo. It'll give something extra to think about, which is a good thing. It could inspire map makers to make more interesting maps (not just for defence). The units giving the high ground vision should keep their default range of course. | ||
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kAra
Germany1358 Posts
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Coffeeling
Finland250 Posts
On February 02 2013 18:06 iky43210 wrote: if we want more active fights then we need more active maps, not high ground gimmicks. See the latest whirlwind map or whatever with expansions at every edge of the map. Sure it may not be balance, but expect to see alot of actions across all races mid game on that map See here: On February 02 2013 11:49 Coffee Zombie wrote: It's also worth noting that without actual terrain with actual effects means the only tool left is really the choke, which means traversibility is tied to terrain advantages always, and can be used by attacker and defender alike. With actual terrain that grants actual effects, you can have wide, uneven plains and small hills that are important for cover and so on. You could design terrain so that it was pretty unilaterally in either the defender's or attacker's favor. It'd free up mapmakers to experiement landforms in a much more nuanced way than is possible in current SC2. I think the decoupling of chokes and advantage is precisely what is needed for your 'more active maps' | ||
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
this is why i love wc3, you have to play pure offensiv and micro. | ||
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eonDE
Canada371 Posts
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 02 2013 17:28 PandaTank wrote: Only at a GM level for the last ~2 years with thousands of games played. So clearly not at all. I bet your credentials are far more impressive for being such a smart-ass constructive contributor. And still stating that SC2 has too much defender's advantage is dubious, especially when you play Protoss at GM level; or didn't you notice that Warpgate negates the elementary defender's advantage that is distance for the attacker's reinforcements? 90% of the time Protoss auto-wins Terran in lategame after winning a fight just because of the production asymmetry (notice how the reverse is not true). Didn't you notice how Forcefield allows you to negate the defender's positional advantage, resulting in ludicrous situations in which Protoss forces his way through 5 Bunkers like it's no problem (notice how the reverse doesn't exist)? Actually you're right, there may be too much defender's advantage in SC2, or rather too much asymmetry in the amount of defender's advantages races have in the different match-ups. | ||
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DemigodcelpH
1138 Posts
This would vastly increase the quality of games while also discouraging mindless a-move. This is something that SC2 drastically needs. | ||
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MooseMasher
Sweden42 Posts
Am I the only one tired of turtling 20 minutes and then have a huge deathball v deathball fight in like 50+% of games? | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
On February 02 2013 19:44 MooseMasher wrote: I don't get it. We have a suggestion that would allow for a deathball to be fended off by a smaller army that's utilizing the terrain advantages of his base, thus allowing for more multi tasking, and more entertaining plays in general. And people try to argue that this suggestion is somehow bad?! Am I the only one tired of turtling 20 minutes and then have a huge deathball v deathball fight in like 50+% of games? jaeh but thats 50+ minute boring games then | ||
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Ragoo
Germany2773 Posts
Instead you should see a highground advantage as a big potential to make better and more varied map designs in the future. To illustrate my point some pictures: + Show Spoiler + 1) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/7K98af6.jpg) ------------------------------------------------------------------ ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/uomLVON.jpg) These two are basically the same in SC2 as the highground just gives vision advantages. 2) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/1Fxa1il.jpg) ------------------------------------------------------------------- ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tmhn3O6.jpg) The only thing in these two pictures that gives the attacking army a disadvantage is that it will have to go through a choke (either a flat one or the ramp). There is no additional advantage for the army standing on the highground!! 3) Lastly as a good example for more varied map design lets take ridges which were commonly used in BW like Heartbreak Ridge or Gladiator. What's so great about them is that they give advantage without a choke, so choke abusing units like Sentries with forcefields or splash units don't get stronger, yet any army standing on top will have an advantage. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U9IjEAr.jpg) In SC2 the army standing on top of the ridge has no advantage at all. | ||
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Sapphire.lux
Romania2620 Posts
On February 02 2013 19:30 TheDwf wrote: And still stating that SC2 has too much defender's advantage is dubious, especially when you play Protoss at GM level; or didn't you notice that Warpgate negates the elementary defender's advantage that is distance for the attacker's reinforcements? 90% of the time Protoss auto-wins Terran in lategame after winning a fight just because of the production asymmetry (notice how the reverse is not true). Didn't you notice how Forcefield allows you to negate the defender's positional advantage, resulting in ludicrous situations in which Protoss forces his way through 5 Bunkers like it's no problem (notice how the reverse doesn't exist)? Actually you're right, there may be too much defender's advantage in SC2, or rather too much asymmetry in the amount of defender's advantages races have in the different match-ups. This is a difference in background IMO. People that played or at least watched and liked BW will want more defensive advantage simply because they are able to understand and then appreciate good defensive play. People coming from other games, games that were MUCH more limited in terms of strategy (like Counter Strike and DOTA as is that case with Panda) just want constant aggression. I've noticed that people coming from similar backgrounds are also the ones that view mech as boring. | ||
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
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Pecul
Sweden116 Posts
I think this definitely deserves to be tested. It is beta after all. | ||
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