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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36996 Posts
 KT Rolster_Flash
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZSNaixF.jpg)
Source: Daily eSports
How do you feel about bringing your team the victory?
I feel good cause I snapped our losing streak. The team's atmosphere was almost about to be altered. I am relieved.
The team was on a losing streak.
I remained cool. I just played like I always do. If we had lost our match today then the atmosphere would have changed. But still, I am relieved that we've maintained our good record.
You secured a lot of wins but you also secured a lot of losses.
I don't think it's that many. Currently, my teammates all have really good records but I never really put thought into my own. All season long, the team winning the championship has been my first priority. As far as I'm concerned, I do really well when the team matters most to me.
Did you expect any difficult games today?
If Stats was only able to grab one game then I knew the match was going to become difficult. Mainly because CJ is such a strong team.
You blocked herO's proxy robotics facility build order.
I 70 - 80% expected that kind of build order to come at me. I shift clicked around the map and I happened to scout the proper area. I had a lot of experience built up so I instinctively built a bunker. As soon as I scouted his strategy, I knew that I was in an advantageous situation.
Any personal goals?
The most wins award is my goal. Because the championship is so desirable, it's inevitable that the team's ace grabs the most wins award. But right now, the player with the most wins keeps changing around so I don't know anything for sure. I think I'll know once round four is over. I am always confident. I declined down a bit after the EG-TL all kill but I think I was able to use today's match as a stepping stone to keep going forward.
It looks like the team is rather weak against Woongjin Stars.
It just doesn't make sense. It's really a mystery. For round three, I want to make sure we snap this losing streak.
Personally, how many matches did you expect to get sent out for?
As expected, I got sent out for about six to seven matches.
There is one final match for round two. So far, have you been satisfied with your performance and the team's performance?
It's not bad. I think it's just kind of there. Once we get to the fourth round, it's important that we maintain our top spot.
HotS will be released very soon.
Honestly, I just don't have any time to play HotS. I'm too occupied with WoL. I was told that we would have time to practice HotS once it gets released but I have to attend MLG so I don't think I'll have that much time to practice. It's true that I'm worried.
Was it disappointing that you fell out of the Up/Downs?
I'm not disappointed. It's because I didn't put a lot of hope into it. There are a lot of SC2 tournaments opening up so I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket right now.
Anything else you would like to say?
I am so relieved that we snapped our three match losing streak. From here on out, we will always win against Woongjin. We're going to face SK Telecom for a second time in a bit but I think we're going to have the advantage.
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Flash at MLG. Excellent. thanks for the interview
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U&D excuse coming from the players themselves :p
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On January 23 2013 09:11 mcmartini wrote:
Flash at MLG. Excellent. thanks for the interview
Amen.
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Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/.
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On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/.
why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something?
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On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something?
They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not?
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On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something?
Because GSL is supposed to be the highest level of sc2 competition? It should hold the same level of prestige OSL/MSL held in BW days, its supposed to be meaningful.
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Hm I wonder if that means MLG is having a wol and hots tournament? The next MLG is going to be hots and yet flash says he can't practice it with MLG being another reason. Interesting indeed.
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On January 23 2013 09:54 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? Because GSL is supposed to be the highest level of sc2 competition? It should hold the same level of prestige OSL/MSL held in BW days, its supposed to be meaningful.
Yeah this is more what I was getting at. You would figure any serious SC2 player would absolutely want to win a GSL. Maybe we just have to wait for a Kespa player to win for other Kespa players take note...
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GSL is just another league with good players. Individual leagues never were the #1 priority of proleague players, they get raises based off their team league contributions for the most part so it makes sense why they would put their focus there. Do well in proleague throughout a season and get a raise/bonuses or play in an individual league where a bad day could knock you out of contention for the prize purse
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On January 23 2013 09:54 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? Because GSL is supposed to be the highest level of sc2 competition? It should hold the same level of prestige OSL/MSL held in BW days, its supposed to be meaningful.
It should, but it doesn't
PL > everything else SC2-related in Korea
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On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not?
1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me?
KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM?
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On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM?
Flash makes 400k?! thought it was more like 100 000.
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Flash's last known salary was $200k, not $400k.
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On January 23 2013 10:09 coasts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? Flash makes 400k?! thought it was more like 100 000.
100k earners are like effort tier i believe (or were)
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I remember seeing flash's base salary around 160k with something near 100k worth of bonuses based on meeting certain goals(pl win #s, team winning championship, etc.)
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On January 23 2013 09:54 Confuse wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? Because GSL is supposed to be the highest level of sc2 competition? It should hold the same level of prestige OSL/MSL held in BW days, its supposed to be meaningful.
yea but even in BW PL is more important than OSL/MSL. there used to be a controversy over SKT not allowing their players to participate in both leagues at the same time because it would interfere with PL, and in interviews players are always more concerned about PL.
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On January 23 2013 10:21 GolemMadness wrote:
Flash's last known salary was $200k, not $400k.
Last I heard it was Stork 150k JD 180k, Bisu 200k, and Flash 250k (all base) after his ascension to Godhood (when KT renewed the contract). It's in one of the interviews. And in that thread, the performance bonuses would be equivalent to paying Flash 400k because IIRC, he had a chance to surpass Savior's record 500k in a year if he won more than 2 of the individual leagues.
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I think that 400k number is his salary + prize money from winning OSL/MSL
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On January 23 2013 10:09 coasts wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? Flash makes 400k?! thought it was more like 100 000.
100K for players such as stats,action,best,leta,calm
200K for stars,like jaedong,bisu in BW
300K for legends,Boxer,Nada, in their age.
and KT_Flash,he was given special treatment for his contribution in KT's two League Champions.More than any progamer before,more than most of soccer and baseball players in korea.
GSL just one of SC2 tourneys,but proleague is totally special, a real e-sports league.
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Flash seems really confused about hots and MLG rofl.
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I can see why they wouldnt care about GSL. I stopped caring about GSL after this years pro league, its just so much better than gstl. Yeah they get money if they compete, but kespa players already have money. ESF players try their hardest in GSL cause most dont make salary
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On January 23 2013 10:00 Vasoline73 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:54 Confuse wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? Because GSL is supposed to be the highest level of sc2 competition? It should hold the same level of prestige OSL/MSL held in BW days, its supposed to be meaningful. Yeah this is more what I was getting at. You would figure any serious SC2 player would absolutely want to win a GSL. Maybe we just have to wait for a Kespa player to win for other Kespa players take note...
I seriously doubt GSL/GSTL have anywhere near the prestige that OSL/PL have.
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The unfortunate truth for GOMTV is that even though the GSL is accepted by the online community as the most prestigious individual league, it's still dwarfed by Proleague, and to a lesser extent, the OSL, in the minds and hearts of Korean fans, the bulk of which consist of BW fans. This dichotomy between the domestic and international mentality results to an underappreciation of BOTH GSL and Proleague. Longtime BW fans don't think much of GSL, since it was never among the 2 premier leagues, and longtime SC2 fans who weren't BW fans couldn't appreciate the rich history of the OSL/MSL/Proleague.
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TLADT24920 Posts
Thanks Seeker! Never realized Flash or Savior made that much lol.
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Winning in Proleague means not only the money, but attention from the GENERAL PUBLIC since it's on TV. You can win 50 GSL's but no one knows who the fuck you are in South Korea.
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So Flash will play at MLG with no practice in HoTS.... Sounds pretty fair for him....
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On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM?
What? No, that can't be right. Flash has made a total of $400k over his entire career, with 6 starleague wins.
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On January 23 2013 11:38 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? What? No, that can't be right. Flash has made a total of $400k over his entire career, with 6 starleague wins.
Huh? Flash has made far more than that on salary alone.
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On January 23 2013 08:39 Seeker wrote:
Was it disappointing that you fell out of the Up/Downs?
I'm not disappointed. It's because I didn't put a lot of hope into it. There are a lot of SC2 tournaments opening up so I'm not putting all my eggs in one basket right now.
You know whats funny? In Fomos's version of interview Flash says "I am disappointed but" but in E-Daily, it says he is not disappointed. Fomos's interview has more detail in it, so I am going to trust on fomos's interview.
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On January 23 2013 11:21 Caladbolg wrote:
The unfortunate truth for GOMTV is that even though the GSL is accepted by the online community as the most prestigious individual league, it's still dwarfed by Proleague, and to a lesser extent, the OSL, in the minds and hearts of Korean fans, the bulk of which consist of BW fans. This dichotomy between the domestic and international mentality results to an underappreciation of BOTH GSL and Proleague. Longtime BW fans don't think much of GSL, since it was never among the 2 premier leagues, and longtime SC2 fans who weren't BW fans couldn't appreciate the rich history of the OSL/MSL/Proleague.
I think this sums up the situation quite nicely.
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On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not?
For the big players the amount of money for a GSL compared to the time investment it takes probably isn't worth it. I imagine the key players will see raises if they help the team perform well in proleague.
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On January 23 2013 11:38 LightSpectra wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? What? No, that can't be right. Flash has made a total of $400k over his entire career, with 6 starleague wins.
That's true.Flash makes $400K per year,salary only. He is more likely a sports star in South Korea. Both in popularity and income.
Remember this guy?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/twxWi8y.jpg)
a soccer player, has a nickname: the People's Rooney, WorldCup participant, born in Japan, played in Japanese and Europe clubs, and playing for Suwon Samsung Bluewings in South Korea now. His contract is about 400,000,000 Won/year, one of highest income soccer players in K-league. Flash makes about the same as him.
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I love how a vague answer saying that Flash doesn't mind losing because he has other tournaments to play in brings out a bunch of people using it as an excuse for why he lost, It's kind of sad how far people will reach for excuses.
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We get to see FlaSh at MLG again. Top 4 spot again?
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On January 23 2013 12:07 vesicular wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 11:21 Caladbolg wrote:
The unfortunate truth for GOMTV is that even though the GSL is accepted by the online community as the most prestigious individual league, it's still dwarfed by Proleague, and to a lesser extent, the OSL, in the minds and hearts of Korean fans, the bulk of which consist of BW fans. This dichotomy between the domestic and international mentality results to an underappreciation of BOTH GSL and Proleague. Longtime BW fans don't think much of GSL, since it was never among the 2 premier leagues, and longtime SC2 fans who weren't BW fans couldn't appreciate the rich history of the OSL/MSL/Proleague. I think this sums up the situation quite nicely.
+1
User was warned for this post
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I think i might actually watch a mlg then
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On January 23 2013 10:00 blade55555 wrote:
Hm I wonder if that means MLG is having a wol and hots tournament? The next MLG is going to be hots and yet flash says he can't practice it with MLG being another reason. Interesting indeed.
I think it's more because he can't practice HotS until it's released, and it will be released just a few days before MLG.
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On January 23 2013 10:01 Soft`Soap wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:54 Confuse wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? Because GSL is supposed to be the highest level of sc2 competition? It should hold the same level of prestige OSL/MSL held in BW days, its supposed to be meaningful. It should, but it doesn't PL > everything else SC2-related in Korea
In terms of sponsorships and coverage, yeah sure, PL > GSL.
But in terms of skill level and where the best of the best SC2 players are at, it's still GSL > PL.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On January 23 2013 17:49 WalkTheEdge2494 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:00 blade55555 wrote:
Hm I wonder if that means MLG is having a wol and hots tournament? The next MLG is going to be hots and yet flash says he can't practice it with MLG being another reason. Interesting indeed. I think it's more because he can't practice HotS until it's released, and it will be released just a few days before MLG.
i'm sure he can get a beta key
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On January 23 2013 17:49 Kommander wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:01 Soft`Soap wrote:On January 23 2013 09:54 Confuse wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? Because GSL is supposed to be the highest level of sc2 competition? It should hold the same level of prestige OSL/MSL held in BW days, its supposed to be meaningful. It should, but it doesn't PL > everything else SC2-related in Korea In terms of sponsorships and coverage, yeah sure, PL > GSL. But in terms of skill level and where the best of the best SC2 players are at, it's still GSL > PL.
Why you guys can´t understand, please tell me?
Kespa players are workers of big companies (Samsumg, KT, SKT, etc).
They need to bring attention not for himselves but for the companies ^ that ones.
So, PL in Korean TV is more important than GSL for foreign people on internet (Maybe for samsumg in the future).
Jesus, how can this be hard to understand?
It have nothing do do with skill. Its a business. Its so hard to understand?
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The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately.
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On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately.
or its your human nature to think they do tournaments to your pleasure, youre the factor.
No. In every sport, e-sport in the world, the point is the business. Its what makes more money for the
organizers.
So, this point of "determining which tournament is more important/prestigious", its not you.
The more important is the one who makes more ROI to investors. Simple.
For one it can be PL, for another ot can be GSL.
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On January 23 2013 19:10 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 17:49 WalkTheEdge2494 wrote:On January 23 2013 10:00 blade55555 wrote:
Hm I wonder if that means MLG is having a wol and hots tournament? The next MLG is going to be hots and yet flash says he can't practice it with MLG being another reason. Interesting indeed. I think it's more because he can't practice HotS until it's released, and it will be released just a few days before MLG. i'm sure he can get a beta key
I'm sure he has a beta key, but he says that he only has time to practice WoL, and will have to practice HotS when it's out. I realized I worded that a bit strange.
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On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately.
what part of corporate sponsorship is an abstract concept?
edit: i feel like this is one of the main reason why esf teams are finding it hard to get a stable sponsor. there is nothing like the proleague for the esf teams to participate in. and you can't compare the gsl, the gomtv run league to proleague, the goverment run league.
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Sure, money does a lot for a tournament, and I realize I forgot to mention that factor in my previous post. I just think it's funny that the GSL has all these things going for it that are relevant to VIEWERS (player skill, caster quality), but in the end it's money that triumphs in the business aspect of things. It's the truth, I completely agree, but it's an ugly one. It's like, imagine if a bunch of massive corporations like Microsoft/Google/Apple all decided to collectively sponsor an SC2 tournament a few years from now (completely and utterly hypothetical, but I think it illustrates my point well). Imagine that the GSL and PL were both supporting and promoting SC2 this entire time, and to top it all off, this hypothetical SC2 tournament for some reason has players and casters that aren't as good as the ones in the GSL and PL. I could make a good argument for why it's more prestigious purely because of its corporate sponsorships, but it would also just feel shitty to actually regard it as more prestigious because it's done nothing for the SC2 scene relative to the GSL or PL and fails to beat the GSL or PL in terms of player skill or casting quality; all it has going for it is money.
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On January 23 2013 20:14 HolyArrow wrote:
Sure, money does a lot for a tournament, and I realize I forgot to mention that factor in my previous post. I just think it's funny that the GSL has all these things going for it that are relevant to VIEWERS (player skill, caster quality), but in the end it's money that triumphs in the business aspect of things. It's the truth, I completely agree, but it's an ugly one.
i don't disagree with you that gsl players are skillful, but even though some players in proleague aren't the best, games are still entertaining because of the team aspect theres a lot at stake if a player loses a game.
but at the end of the day when your sponsors want you to win proleague. you practice your ass off to win proleague.
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On January 23 2013 20:20 Tsutchie wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 20:14 HolyArrow wrote:
Sure, money does a lot for a tournament, and I realize I forgot to mention that factor in my previous post. I just think it's funny that the GSL has all these things going for it that are relevant to VIEWERS (player skill, caster quality), but in the end it's money that triumphs in the business aspect of things. It's the truth, I completely agree, but it's an ugly one. i don't disagree with you that gsl players are skillful, but even though some players in proleague aren't the best, games are still entertaining because of the team aspect theres a lot at stake if a player loses a game. but at the end of the day when your sponsors want you to win proleague. you practice your ass off to win proleague.
I want to be clear, I don't think PL players are bad at all, in fact I'd say that they're in general pretty close to GSL players in skill. Just so I don't offend anyone too much ^^ But the point still stands that the skill level in the GSL is slightly higher than that of PL, and as for casters... Tastetosis is worlds ahead of SNM and Whiplash. I'd regard PL in a far more positive light if they had the sense to hire world-class casters, even if it means they'd have to spend a lot more money to pay their salaries. I feel somewhat slighted as a foreign SC2 fan with their hiring choices. And I feel bad talking about SNM and Whiplash like that because they seem like cool people who are legitimately trying to improve, but the fact is that a tournament that's supposed to be as prestigious as PL should have the very best casters.
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On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately.
You totally wrong.
In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague.
look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all.
the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception.
you like this? just enjoy it continually.
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On January 23 2013 20:33 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately. You totally wrong. In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague. look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all. the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception. you like this? just enjoy it continually.
Lol take money away from fans like me by deception? All I know is that if the GSL never existed, what would have been THE SC2 tournament for the last 2+ years? What organization would have been promoting a world-class level of SC2 for the last 2+ years? If the GSL never existed then I wouldn't have even had a world-class SC2 tournament to give any money to. You make it sound like there was an alternate world-class SC2 tournament available to support and the GSL deceived me into supporting them. And you can't just assume that proleague is the reason why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players because there are ESF players with no proleague background who are also better than foreign players, who are even top SC2 players (such as Leenock and Life).
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On January 23 2013 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 20:33 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately. You totally wrong. In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague. look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all. the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception. you like this? just enjoy it continually. Lol take money away from fans like me by deception? All I know is that if the GSL never existed, what would have been THE SC2 tournament for the last 2+ years? What organization would have been promoting a world-class level of SC2 for the last 2+ years? If the GSL never existed then I wouldn't have even had a world-class SC2 tournament to give any money to. You make it sound like there was an alternate world-class SC2 tournament available to support and the GSL deceived me into supporting them. And you can't just assume that proleague is the reason why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players because there are ESF players with no proleague background who are also better than foreign players, who are even top SC2 players (such as Leenock and Life).
he's pretty much saying that if BW, PL (and the like) weren't so successful, then ESF and GOMTV won't be also. Which is pretty much true, you know.
They did build GSL based off a legacy.
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On January 23 2013 12:11 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 11:38 LightSpectra wrote:On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? What? No, that can't be right. Flash has made a total of $400k over his entire career, with 6 starleague wins. That's true.Flash makes $400K per year,salary only. He is more likely a sports star in South Korea. Both in popularity and income. Remember this guy? a soccer player, has a nickname: the People's Rooney, WorldCup participant, born in Japan, played in Japanese and Europe clubs, and playing for Suwon Samsung Bluewings in South Korea now. His contract is about 400,000,000 Won/year, one of highest income soccer players in K-league. Flash makes about the same as him.
Chong Tese my friend, why have you left the Bundesliga T.T
It's kinda funny to realize that Flash is basically becoming a millionaire by playing computer games 
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On January 23 2013 20:54 fluidin wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:On January 23 2013 20:33 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately. You totally wrong. In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague. look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all. the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception. you like this? just enjoy it continually. Lol take money away from fans like me by deception? All I know is that if the GSL never existed, what would have been THE SC2 tournament for the last 2+ years? What organization would have been promoting a world-class level of SC2 for the last 2+ years? If the GSL never existed then I wouldn't have even had a world-class SC2 tournament to give any money to. You make it sound like there was an alternate world-class SC2 tournament available to support and the GSL deceived me into supporting them. And you can't just assume that proleague is the reason why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players because there are ESF players with no proleague background who are also better than foreign players, who are even top SC2 players (such as Leenock and Life). he's pretty much saying that if BW, PL (and the like) weren't so successful, then ESF and GOMTV won't be also. Which is pretty much true, you know. They did build GSL based off a legacy.
My point is that none of that matters. I said in my initial post that I disagree with even factoring in the concept of legacy, because it's meaningless to me as a viewer. I care about player skill and caster quality, since that directly affects how enjoyable a tournament is to me. I'm not sitting there watching SPL and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, but since SPL has such a rich legacy, I'm magically enjoying watching it more". No, I'm sitting there and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, these players are still not quite there yet in terms of skill/gamesense due to having played SC2 for a significantly shorter period of time than ESF players, so this tournament is less enjoyable to me". And sure, everyone has different reasons for enjoying things, and I realize that seeing BW legends play SC2 is extremely enjoyable for many people. But going back to the initial topic - the concept of prestige - I'd say that if a tournament has better players and better casters which make for a better SC2 competition experience along great production values to back it all up, then it would deserve to be considered the most prestigious tournament.
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On January 23 2013 21:12 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 20:54 fluidin wrote:On January 23 2013 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:On January 23 2013 20:33 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately. You totally wrong. In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague. look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all. the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception. you like this? just enjoy it continually. Lol take money away from fans like me by deception? All I know is that if the GSL never existed, what would have been THE SC2 tournament for the last 2+ years? What organization would have been promoting a world-class level of SC2 for the last 2+ years? If the GSL never existed then I wouldn't have even had a world-class SC2 tournament to give any money to. You make it sound like there was an alternate world-class SC2 tournament available to support and the GSL deceived me into supporting them. And you can't just assume that proleague is the reason why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players because there are ESF players with no proleague background who are also better than foreign players, who are even top SC2 players (such as Leenock and Life). he's pretty much saying that if BW, PL (and the like) weren't so successful, then ESF and GOMTV won't be also. Which is pretty much true, you know. They did build GSL based off a legacy. My point is that none of that matters. I said in my initial post that I disagree with even factoring in the concept of legacy, because it's meaningless to me as a viewer. I care about player skill and caster quality, since that directly affects how enjoyable a tournament is to me. I'm not sitting there watching SPL and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, but since SPL has such a rich legacy, I'm magically enjoying watching it more". No, I'm sitting there and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, these players are still not quite there yet in terms of skill/gamesense due to having played SC2 for a significantly shorter period of time than ESF players, so this tournament is less enjoyable to me". And sure, everyone has different reasons for enjoying things, and I realize that seeing BW legends play SC2 is extremely enjoyable for many people. But going back to the initial topic - the concept of prestige - I'd say that if a tournament has better players and better casters which make for a better SC2 competition experience along great production values to back it all up, then it would deserve to be considered the most prestigious tournament.
well yeah, that's all fine and dandy, but things obviously don't always work this way if at all.
i mean, sc2 leagues are after all still a form of consumption entertainment, if everyone thought the way you did supply would have to rise to meet demand, and yet it didn't. unless "being the most prestigious tournament" only falls under your definition, i'm afraid to say quite a few people don't agree with your view (prob not on TL obv)
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On January 23 2013 21:04 ibraishome wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 12:11 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 11:38 LightSpectra wrote:On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? What? No, that can't be right. Flash has made a total of $400k over his entire career, with 6 starleague wins. That's true.Flash makes $400K per year,salary only. He is more likely a sports star in South Korea. Both in popularity and income. Remember this guy? a soccer player, has a nickname: the People's Rooney, WorldCup participant, born in Japan, played in Japanese and Europe clubs, and playing for Suwon Samsung Bluewings in South Korea now. His contract is about 400,000,000 Won/year, one of highest income soccer players in K-league. Flash makes about the same as him. Chong Tese my friend, why have you left the Bundesliga T.T It's kinda funny to realize that Flash is basically becoming a millionaire by playing computer games
I would claim that there are plenty of people who are millionaires by playing online poker, which is basically a computer game.
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Regardless of his salary, whatever it might be, I am happy to see Flash winning and breaking KT's losing streak.
Thanks for translating, Seeker.
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On January 24 2013 00:48 Yoshi- wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 21:04 ibraishome wrote:On January 23 2013 12:11 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 11:38 LightSpectra wrote:On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? What? No, that can't be right. Flash has made a total of $400k over his entire career, with 6 starleague wins. That's true.Flash makes $400K per year,salary only. He is more likely a sports star in South Korea. Both in popularity and income. Remember this guy? a soccer player, has a nickname: the People's Rooney, WorldCup participant, born in Japan, played in Japanese and Europe clubs, and playing for Suwon Samsung Bluewings in South Korea now. His contract is about 400,000,000 Won/year, one of highest income soccer players in K-league. Flash makes about the same as him. Chong Tese my friend, why have you left the Bundesliga T.T It's kinda funny to realize that Flash is basically becoming a millionaire by playing computer games I would claim that there are plenty of people who are millionaires by playing online poker, which is basically a computer game.
Those are 2 different things tough. One is a computer game that is it, cannot be played without computer.
Other is a game that has been played for ages and this version just happened to be on computer.
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On January 23 2013 19:10 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 17:49 WalkTheEdge2494 wrote:On January 23 2013 10:00 blade55555 wrote:
Hm I wonder if that means MLG is having a wol and hots tournament? The next MLG is going to be hots and yet flash says he can't practice it with MLG being another reason. Interesting indeed. I think it's more because he can't practice HotS until it's released, and it will be released just a few days before MLG. i'm sure he can get a beta key
I think it's more that he's contractually obligated to play WoL and only WoL ;o
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On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM?
You mean 400.000 USD ? Chill please it's 400.000 Won -.- take away your fanboyism ... it's disgusting
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On January 24 2013 02:02 foxj wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? You mean 400.000 USD ? Chill please it's 400.000 Won -.- take away your fanboyism ... it's disgusting
pretty sure you dont know how Won is valued ^^
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On January 24 2013 02:02 foxj wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? You mean 400.000 USD ? Chill please it's 400.000 Won -.- take away your fanboyism ... it's disgusting
That's about 370USD, dont come into a thread so ignorant and aggressive when you don't know your facts and you don't have sources.
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On January 24 2013 02:02 foxj wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? You mean 400.000 USD ? Chill please it's 400.000 Won -.- take away your fanboyism ... it's disgusting
welcome to the world of proleague.
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On January 24 2013 02:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:02 foxj wrote:On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? You mean 400.000 USD ? Chill please it's 400.000 Won -.- take away your fanboyism ... it's disgusting That's about 370USD, dont come into a thread so ignorant and aggressive when you don't know your facts and you don't have sources.
Someone's missing a set of 3 zeroes.
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On January 24 2013 02:49 sparklyresidue wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 02:43 FiWiFaKi wrote:On January 24 2013 02:02 foxj wrote:On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? You mean 400.000 USD ? Chill please it's 400.000 Won -.- take away your fanboyism ... it's disgusting That's about 370USD, dont come into a thread so ignorant and aggressive when you don't know your facts and you don't have sources. Someone's missing a set of 3 zeroes.
400.000 Won is 370 dollars, unless you were referring to him missing 3 zeroes.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On January 23 2013 20:33 starfinder wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately. You totally wrong. In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague. look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all. the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception. you like this? just enjoy it continually.
haha no it's because they train harder on a better ladder, not because they were kespa b-teamers lol
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On January 24 2013 02:02 foxj wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 10:02 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:50 tuho12345 wrote:On January 23 2013 09:44 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 09:37 Vasoline73 wrote:
Yay Flash! Sucks to hear Kespa players don't seem to care about GSL though :/. why they should care GSL? GOMTV paid them something? They make a shit load of money if they win GSL so why not? Plus even if you're in R32, you'll still get some money for it so why the hell not? 1000$ a month for code S RO32? I can afford 1000$ too, why not Manny Pacquiao take a boxing with me? KT paid him 400K$ this season for 42 regular matches and playoff. GOMTV paid him nothing so far, why he must play for GOM? You mean 400.000 USD ? Chill please it's 400.000 Won -.- take away your fanboyism ... it's disgusting
You are wrong in every way.
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On January 23 2013 21:12 HolyArrow wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 20:54 fluidin wrote:On January 23 2013 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:On January 23 2013 20:33 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately. You totally wrong. In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague. look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all. the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception. you like this? just enjoy it continually. Lol take money away from fans like me by deception? All I know is that if the GSL never existed, what would have been THE SC2 tournament for the last 2+ years? What organization would have been promoting a world-class level of SC2 for the last 2+ years? If the GSL never existed then I wouldn't have even had a world-class SC2 tournament to give any money to. You make it sound like there was an alternate world-class SC2 tournament available to support and the GSL deceived me into supporting them. And you can't just assume that proleague is the reason why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players because there are ESF players with no proleague background who are also better than foreign players, who are even top SC2 players (such as Leenock and Life). he's pretty much saying that if BW, PL (and the like) weren't so successful, then ESF and GOMTV won't be also. Which is pretty much true, you know. They did build GSL based off a legacy. My point is that none of that matters. I said in my initial post that I disagree with even factoring in the concept of legacy, because it's meaningless to me as a viewer. I care about player skill and caster quality, since that directly affects how enjoyable a tournament is to me. I'm not sitting there watching SPL and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, but since SPL has such a rich legacy, I'm magically enjoying watching it more". No, I'm sitting there and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, these players are still not quite there yet in terms of skill/gamesense due to having played SC2 for a significantly shorter period of time than ESF players, so this tournament is less enjoyable to me". And sure, everyone has different reasons for enjoying things, and I realize that seeing BW legends play SC2 is extremely enjoyable for many people. But going back to the initial topic - the concept of prestige - I'd say that if a tournament has better players and better casters which make for a better SC2 competition experience along great production values to back it all up, then it would deserve to be considered the most prestigious tournament.
It might be meaningless to you, but it's nearly everything to the normal Korean BW fan who switched to SC2 not because they preferred the game because they followed the players, the legacy. And they're the ultimate factor when determining which group will come out ahead.
Unless somehow foreign fans become the target audience, which won't happen anytime soon because we have far less power than the domestic demographic in Korea watching SC2.
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I love it when people get behind a "tradition" they´re not part of, in order to differentiate themselves from their environment, in which they usually play a frustratingly small role.
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I don't really care t hat GSL is smaller than PL in the commercial way. GSL has better skill value, and PL has better PR value. The more people are interested in PL, the more people will start to get interested in GSL and people will start to realize GSL has better players and better games to watch. If you don't win a GSL title, you are not consider one of the best SC2 players yet. Flash may win another 5 PL, but if he is in U&D forever, I doubt we all can call him God anymore.
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GOM's tournaments have never been anything but a side job for the Kespa players. Remember Gom's Intel-TG Starleague that Flash won like twice back in '08 ? Quite a few players admitted in their interviews that they didnt actually prepare for their games.
Back then : PL > OSL > MSL >> everything else (WCG,GOM)
Tastosis used to repeatedly tell the viewers how GOM was the best BW tournament because it has the highest prize pool. The players themselves just didnt care about all that.
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On January 24 2013 16:59 Caladbolg wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2013 21:12 HolyArrow wrote:On January 23 2013 20:54 fluidin wrote:On January 23 2013 20:39 HolyArrow wrote:On January 23 2013 20:33 starfinder wrote:On January 23 2013 19:56 HolyArrow wrote:
The funny thing is that Proleague is considered more prestigious than the GSL as a SC2 tournament by some people purely on the back of a legacy built on games that aren't SC2. Meanwhile, the GSL has better players, far, FAR better casters (to be clear, I'm talking about this from a foreign perspective, I expect the Korean casters for the GSL and Proleague are both excellent and roughly of equivalent quality), and well over two years dedicated to supporting, growing, and popularizing SC2 while PL is relatively new to the SC2 scene. It's silly that certain folks care more about an abstract concept like legacy (and to reiterate, one that has nothing to do with SC2) rather than factors like the ones previously listed (players, casters, long history of supporting SC2) when determining which tournament is more important/prestigious. I guess that's just human nature though, unfortunately. You totally wrong. In fact GSL and ESF just a legacy of proleague. look at esf player's background,most of them have Proleague A/B teamer experience. Why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players? proleague teams trained them before. That's all. the only thing Gomtv did is exploit ex-proleague players for GSL,and take money away from fans like you by deception. you like this? just enjoy it continually. Lol take money away from fans like me by deception? All I know is that if the GSL never existed, what would have been THE SC2 tournament for the last 2+ years? What organization would have been promoting a world-class level of SC2 for the last 2+ years? If the GSL never existed then I wouldn't have even had a world-class SC2 tournament to give any money to. You make it sound like there was an alternate world-class SC2 tournament available to support and the GSL deceived me into supporting them. And you can't just assume that proleague is the reason why ESF players have better macro and micro than foreign players because there are ESF players with no proleague background who are also better than foreign players, who are even top SC2 players (such as Leenock and Life). he's pretty much saying that if BW, PL (and the like) weren't so successful, then ESF and GOMTV won't be also. Which is pretty much true, you know. They did build GSL based off a legacy. My point is that none of that matters. I said in my initial post that I disagree with even factoring in the concept of legacy, because it's meaningless to me as a viewer. I care about player skill and caster quality, since that directly affects how enjoyable a tournament is to me. I'm not sitting there watching SPL and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, but since SPL has such a rich legacy, I'm magically enjoying watching it more". No, I'm sitting there and thinking, "Wow, these casters are way worse than Tastetosis, these players are still not quite there yet in terms of skill/gamesense due to having played SC2 for a significantly shorter period of time than ESF players, so this tournament is less enjoyable to me". And sure, everyone has different reasons for enjoying things, and I realize that seeing BW legends play SC2 is extremely enjoyable for many people. But going back to the initial topic - the concept of prestige - I'd say that if a tournament has better players and better casters which make for a better SC2 competition experience along great production values to back it all up, then it would deserve to be considered the most prestigious tournament. It might be meaningless to you, but it's nearly everything to the normal Korean BW fan who switched to SC2 not because they preferred the game because they followed the players, the legacy. And they're the ultimate factor when determining which group will come out ahead. Unless somehow foreign fans become the target audience, which won't happen anytime soon because we have far less power than the domestic demographic in Korea watching SC2.
Sure, I agree with you. I'm not talking about who's going to come out ahead, I'm just trying to argue my case for the GSL being the most prestigious tournament from a standpoint of player skill and caster quality.
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EPT
