EPTThey do an awesome job.
Even when streams start to struggle. They come so quickly after we report problems with the wrench.
I feel twitch.tv is working hard. And they deserve some applause.
Destiny: Own3d paying streamers late, not fulfilling contr…
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llIH
Norway2142 Posts
They do an awesome job. Even when streams start to struggle. They come so quickly after we report problems with the wrench. I feel twitch.tv is working hard. And they deserve some applause. | ||
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ReachTheSky
United States3294 Posts
On January 21 2013 05:11 KAB00000000M wrote: Nothing wrong with twitch.tv They do an awesome job. Even when streams start to struggle. They come so quickly after we report problems with the wrench. I feel twitch.tv is working hard. And they deserve some applause. twitch is good but they have no consistency when it comes to stream quality. Just about every major event stream recently has been plagued with lag issues. | ||
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Darpa
Canada4413 Posts
On January 21 2013 03:09 NumberFive wrote: People bashing streaming and progaming in this tread as not being "real jobs" should really get a hold of themselves, it are the same disgusting comments that flooded the Gamespot thread about Quantic disbanding. Do you consider being an athlete a "real job" ? Like football players for example ? Do you consider being a television star like a news anchor, a sports commentator, a talk show host, and so on a "real job" ? After all, it's all the same thing, it's sports or entertainement in general. I can just picture those haters as spoiled brats that grew up with the idea that some jobs are not meant for them and of 'lesser value', like being a gardener for example (I've seriously heard that before), and that they were meant to grow up to study and get a "real job". Except that job isn't really what they wanted, so now when they see someone that enjoys what they do, they are jealous and bash them for having picked a "fake job", which caused all their problems. Reading some of the replies in this topic really reminds me how deep intolerance is rooted in some people's minds. I agree that they can be considered real jobs if you treat it like a real job... That said, I think alot of the hate comes from the public whining and lack of action, they know the risks of having your income based on something as variable as streaming. Not to condone what Owned did but i mean honestly, if you worked in a regular job in the outside world, and your employer didnt pay you, thats breach of contract on their part, and you would have been out of their like a shot and suing them or moving on to another job before your are owed 6 months of pay. Nobody would stand for this in a "real" job and the financial impact wouldnt have been so great. Imagine if Destiny had made this thread after the first month, all of this would have happened the same way, and he would have been back on twitch making money without depleting his savings Now alot of the streamers felt trapped because they hadnt received pay, and didnt want to forfeit it if they left, but they really should have been leaving after the FIRST cheque was more than a week late without any reasonable explanation. And if the offending company decided to make an issue out of it, they are obligated to fulfill their end of the contract for you to fulfill yours, ie. Pay you. | ||
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totauksz
Ghana190 Posts
On January 21 2013 03:58 NumberFive wrote: Destiny also said that the job he enjoyed the most up to now (excluding streaming, because destiny STREAMS for a living, he doesn't compete for a living) was working in a Casino, and that would be the job he would go to if it was really needed. Do you consider working tables in a casino, with a woodwind performance degree, a job that makes your life and carreer move forward ? Just the fact you're talking about "hire him for a good job" makes me fear the worst for your answer So in 5-6 years someone can become a Doctor, an engineer etc to prepair them for the "real life" according to you. (also:you have to put in less effort in engineering or a doctor to be good, that's actually really wrong.) What if they don't want to be those things and REALLY like and enjoy to be a musician for example ? They practice and try to make it work as a band through gigs, youtube etc. and it's the thing they love doing, but then you would go out and tell them that playing their instrument the whole day is a waste of time and they should study instead ? It's not because you value having that kind of job this much that other people feel like you, Destiny enjoys streaming, he's not using streaming to kickstart his carreer as the CEO of microsoft. It's Ironic how you say "A hard physical worker could think my job isn't a real job" and then you proceed to do the EXACT SAME THING. Instead of a "hard worker" bashing a tech job, you're a "Guy working for a company" bashing someone that is self-employed. i have an engineering degree from one of the hardest tech universities in europe, so i know exactly how much effort you have to put in to get it. and it's way less than 8 hours per day. you only want to kill yourself in 20% of your overall time, the rest you can drink yourself to liver failure. of course this considering that you actually have the talent for technology/math etc. in my home country a casino worker earns really shit. it's by no means a GOOD job. you can live in your little dream world if you think "just do what you like" but if you have a child and a woman that you have to support you aren't only responsible for yourself. It's his life, but here we consider guys like him losers. a kid and girl changes everything. in my oponion anyone is free to fuck up himself as much as they want, but not 2 other ppl.... I also didn't really bash him, just wanted to explan to you how grown ups in the real world actually think here in europe. i don't care about destiny at all btw, but i don't know why you want to justify his life so much when it's clearly lame overall according to everyone who takes life seriously, is your life similar to his or what?  you have nothing against what I say. I'm not even being elitist here, it's just that people without education here earn so bad, and it's free, so everyone who wants to live a decent life MUST study a lot. but i don't consider him stupid, he's actually pretty smart based on the way he talks. He could earn 2-3x my salary in the USA as a car mechanic or something that requires 1 year of study or so. I'm explaining this to you because you clearly aren't familiar with my way of thinking.the part about it being "lame"- that's not MY thinking, that's the way society thinks. If you do something that's lame according to 95% of the world, you can't really accomplish much unless you're really lucky or really really talented at that lame thing that u can make it work. You can go and explain this to anyone because you like Destiny, but you live in the world, you depend on the world, you have to correspond to the world- and if he's done with streaming, this will be hard for him. | ||
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Innovation
United States284 Posts
You believe every job title someone gives himself on an internet forum? Just because he throws around some numbers? I don't find any insights in this post; just expression of greatness. Are you somehow personally offended by this? Did it hurt your feelings? There are facts and then there are opinions. It just happens that in this industry there are hard facts and it seemed like a few needed to be dropped on the uninformed. I have no problem if you feel the need to advocate for your kind. | ||
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ChiknAdobo
United States208 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On January 21 2013 08:25 totauksz wrote: of course this considering that you actually have the talent for technology/math etc. so your tip to people is to "try to be born talented" ? Good advice. | ||
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totauksz
Ghana190 Posts
On January 21 2013 08:57 Sub40APM wrote: so your tip to people is to "try to be born talented" ? Good advice. what an idiotic question, where did I say you can only be an engineer lol try to find out what you're talented in, and make a compromise with the Real World. The smaller the compromise is, the better it is for you. If you don't have that talent for math/etc you can't even get in and finish the 1st year as an engineer btw so obviously you need to look for a different solution. you can also finish a tech school to be a machine operator/technician/etc which takes 2 years at most, but most of them are just half year or 1 year, and earn fucking 5-6k in the USA as a machine operator at an injection molding industry or something like that, which is fucking DREAM MONEY, upper 1% in my country, and require waaaaaay less commitment and effort and talent than a degree, and you can have a good carreer. Granted not many people love the industry but I happen to, that's why I'm talking about it- there are probably other ways and jobs too. Or if someone can't even finish a school like that, don't get girls pregnant etc if you can't support them. This thought of mine is not even about Destiny, since he CAN support them if he gets the streaming money, my prevorious posts were about his future, when he possibly won't be able to... | ||
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Noobity
United States871 Posts
On January 21 2013 03:51 Badinoff wrote: Nope, pretty sure you just got totally shit on by two different people that make a living off of streaming. Agree with a point someone is making, call them incredibly stupid. Winning. Speak for someone else without understanding the conversation, imply they've been "shit on" for making a point that those "shitting on them" agreed with. Also winning. Cool beans homie. | ||
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Innovation
United States284 Posts
you can also finish a tech school to be a machine operator/technician/etc which takes 2 years at most, but most of them are just half year or 1 year, and earn fucking 5-6k in the USA as a machine operator at an injection molding industry or something like that, which is fucking DREAM MONEY, upper 1% in my country, and require waaaaaay less commitment and effort and talent than a degree, and you can have a good carreer. Granted not many people love the industry but I happen to, that's why I'm talking about it- there are probably other ways and jobs too. Or if someone can't even finish a school like that, don't get girls pregnant etc if you can't support them. This thought of mine is not even about Destiny, since he CAN support them if he gets the streaming money, my prevorious posts were about his future, when he possibly won't be able to... I can completely understand your frustration of the economic inequality between the US and other countries like Ghana for instance. It doesn't seem fair that you, a well educated hard working person don't have the same opportunity to earn the kinds of money we take for granted here in the US. If I was in your position I'd be pissed at anyone complaining about not making enough money from a game when you're working your ass off for a fraction of it. Hopefully you will get an opportunity in the future be paid in-line with your effort and hard work. We are fortunate enough to have industries where people can be paid to do the things they love, not just what they need to do to get by. All I can say is that I have respect for the work you're doing and hope that you can experience the same luxury in time. Destiny has made some dumb decisions just like all of us; and compared to most people around the world we have little to complain about, but just like you Destiny and other streamers deserve to be paid for what they do. Perhaps you can use your engineering skills and combine it with online streaming or something else online to earn more money than is possible in your local area? You're obviously very hard working and smart so I'm sure there is opportunity out there for you. | ||
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HolyExlxF
United States256 Posts
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zarzobnz
New Zealand35 Posts
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totauksz
Ghana190 Posts
On January 21 2013 09:28 Innovation wrote: I can completely understand your frustration of the economic inequality between the US and other countries like Ghana for instance. It doesn't seem fair that you, a well educated hard working person don't have the same opportunity to earn the kinds of money we take for granted here in the US. If I was in your position I'd be pissed at anyone complaining about not making enough money from a game when you're working your ass off for a fraction of it. Hopefully you will get an opportunity in the future be paid in-line with your effort and hard work. We are fortunate enough to have industries where people can be paid to do the things they love, not just what they need to do to get by. All I can say is that I have respect for the work you're doing and hope that you can experience the same luxury in time. Destiny has made some dumb decisions just like all of us; and compared to most people around the world we have little to complain about, but just like you Destiny and other streamers deserve to be paid for what they do. Perhaps you can use your engineering skills and combine it with online streaming or something else online to earn more money than is possible in your local area? You're obviously very hard working and smart so I'm sure there is opportunity out there for you. Hah you're very kind, thank you! I'm not mad at Destiny, not at all. I just reply sometimes and derail threads when something catches my eye;) It's actually not as bad as for me, I make pretty good money here compared to the rest, my family is wealthy and food/etc. is really cheap here. I'm Hungarian btw, just the company I work for is in Ghana. And makes my brain ache that people can get good money with -relatively- easy education and they choose not to. not even talking about Destiny at this point, he even inspired me to upload some videos to Youtube (and got some money off the ad venue hehe). He obviously deserves the money and own3d seems like a terrible organization based on all these stories. it's just my personal opinion that a smart guy like Destiny should try to educate himself and get a stable job, because this whole e-sport thingy doesn't cut if if you want to support your whole family. he's not that old, he's even younger than me... you have to step up at being a grownup if you knock up a girl or you're a douchebag, that's how I feel. | ||
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Eventine
United States307 Posts
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
He had a contract. There can't be a discussion if he had a "job" at own3d, or better, there only can be a discussion if you completely neglect the contract. If a company wants to pay me 10k for playing with my feet 3 hours a day, then it's my job to play with my feet 3 hours a day. If they don't pay me for that, then it is not "not a real job", but a company breaking a legal contract between employer and employee. Where on earth does this "real job" even come from? Is "professional footballer" a real job? Because you can get screwed there as well (in fact, in germany a soccerteam [Alemannia Aachen] can't pay it's players anymore). People are referring to "McDonalds" to get "a real job as burgerflipper". What if you have a job at a small company in a bad economic situation, let's say a small, private supermarket - and next door opens a walmart (or whatever a cheap discounter in the US is)? It will die, leaving your "safe, real job" kinda dead. Or internet cafes, all internet cafes i know of which opened in the ~90s are dead, because everyone has internet now. There are no "real" or "fake-jobs", there is stuff you get payed for. Destiny (which i actually really dislike) got paid for streaming. Or in this case, did not get paid. The fact alone that he could support his family for over half a year without a real income should actually tell you that he had a decent income in his job, these savings came from somewhere. I dare to say that he made more money than 80% of the people on this forum (and still would, or does, whatever his situation is). Sometimes this forum just seems really, REALLY retarded to me. Especially if some "special guys" try to explain that something is not a real job, because, well.. Because you PLAY for money and don't get dirty fingernails. PS: my parents were selfemployed when i was born, they had a small bakery. Does not seem to be unusual (to be honest, it's way more unusual to see so many people discussing that you need to be "grown up" and "be an employee", not to mention "get a real job" or especially "its irresponsible to be self employed as a parent"). | ||
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Swiftocino
United States9 Posts
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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On January 21 2013 12:07 Swiftocino wrote: I understand that legal defense is expensive, but this situation seems like an opportunity for a lawyer to take a few cases against streaming sites like own3d and establish him/herself as the attorney to hire in such cases. It may only take one or two big cases against streaming sites to shake up the young industry and change how these people do business. Their jurisdiction is in Austria/EU (noted in ToS), i guess that would discourage me as well (the other way around). I would not try to sue a company in the US for less money than i would need to pay the lawyer. Edit: also, there aren't that much streaming sites which ripoff their streamers/are bankrupt, so i don't believe that a lawyer would see an opportunity/niché there. | ||
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ke_ivan
Singapore374 Posts
1) We pitch to companies who are interested. These are usually your tech giants. 2) Assuming that they are agreeable, they have a buy in and they sign the insertion order. 3) We insert the ads (Campaign Runs). 4) They have 45 to 60 days to pay us once the insertion is made, or there will be a penalty fee. 5) Once we get the money, we pay out the company's percentage. We're given 60 days, but it's usually within 14 - 30 days. We're talking about 3 to 6 months time frame. A well-managed company will have the capital to tide this (like Twitch). Twitch has also has the fortune of being partners with an established media owner (CBSi). In the long run, a company should be earning more than it is giving out, and it is up to streaming companies to pay their assets on time. | ||
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tsango
Australia214 Posts
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NumberFive
Belgium36 Posts
On January 21 2013 09:43 totauksz wrote: Hah you're very kind, thank you! I'm not mad at Destiny, not at all. I just reply sometimes and derail threads when something catches my eye;) It's actually not as bad as for me, I make pretty good money here compared to the rest, my family is wealthy and food/etc. is really cheap here. I'm Hungarian btw, just the company I work for is in Ghana. And makes my brain ache that people can get good money with -relatively- easy education and they choose not to. not even talking about Destiny at this point, he even inspired me to upload some videos to Youtube (and got some money off the ad venue hehe). He obviously deserves the money and own3d seems like a terrible organization based on all these stories. it's just my personal opinion that a smart guy like Destiny should try to educate himself and get a stable job, because this whole e-sport thingy doesn't cut if if you want to support your whole family. he's not that old, he's even younger than me... you have to step up at being a grownup if you knock up a girl or you're a douchebag, that's how I feel. It actually DOES cut it, when companies actually live up to the contract. and he'll probably be able to continue doing that for a while, as the Esport/internet entertainement business is growing every year ( and he's not a "progamer" but more of an entertainer, he has no trouble switching over to the game that pays the most, like he demosntrated with LoL. He liked sc2 more, but LoL is where the money is and he has a child to feed. ) But I don't think we'll ever convince you otherwise, as you're obviously a wealthy, smart businessman that can't understand why people would NOT prefer getting 'real job Y' over the job X they love and that actually supports them just fine when the contracts aren't broken. Just the fact you assume I have to have a life like Destiny because I'm defending him, and you talk about being wealthy etc. makes me feel you were the kind of spoiled brat I said in my first post, you're full of yourself and you want people to admire you for your "real job" because otherwise you wouldn't tell us all that. Actually the exact same thing happened not too long ago on Youtube: Ray William Johnson, who makes a shitton of money off youtube and his media projects ( It's safe to say he makes more than you, by a longshot ) had trouble with his producer or something ( Maker Studios) and they were cutting off his ad revenue and holding his accounts as long as he disagreed to sign a bad contract. He went public with the story just like Destiny did, and he's also a smart guy that went full-time into entertainement media production. Would you also bash him for not picking a "real job" and him being in trouble at that moment, even though he makes way more than you ? | ||
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