On January 13 2013 01:30 Grumbels wrote: What does everyone think of this idea?
- For every possible starting location for your opponent there is an icon in-game on the minimap. - If you scout one of these icons, the icon disappears. - This can be enabled and disabled in settings.
I think this is more elegant than tooltips while starting.
Never liked the icons for creeps in WC3... I think the map should only show "real" objects. Just mark your own spawning spot in the loading screen. And put markers at each location your opponent could start in.
On January 12 2013 14:50 Protosnake wrote: I think it's pretty stupid that they would fuck up ZvP even more when it should be obvious to everyone that the issue in TvZ is the queen, just lower the range to 4
'Fuck up ZvP even more'? What do you mean? This patch is trying to address the fact the infested terran span from 20+ infestors is way too strong in ZvP as well as ZvT when terran is meching.
Because ZvP is already P favored It's T that need help, and since Z rarely ever search +1 range in ZvT this patch doesnt help them at all
"We’ve held off on these changes until now primarily because we thought having different sets of hidden start location rules for each map might be confusing to lower level players. At this point, however, we feel that most StarCraft II players have a solid understanding of starting locations on each map"
Worst excuse ever, but I can't really complain. I have wanted cross spawn for..years now.
On January 12 2013 14:50 Protosnake wrote: I think it's pretty stupid that they would fuck up ZvP even more when it should be obvious to everyone that the issue in TvZ is the queen, just lower the range to 4
'Fuck up ZvP even more'? What do you mean? This patch is trying to address the fact the infested terran span from 20+ infestors is way too strong in ZvP as well as ZvT when terran is meching.
Because ZvP is already P favored It's T that need help, and since Z rarely ever search +1 range in ZvT this patch doesnt help them at all
How is it P favoured? Outside of immortal all in which is specifically designed to punish greedy zergs (which can be devastating for both players), Protoss is usually at a disadvantage, especially late game against broodlord/infestor comps. With fungals, brood-lords reign free and upgraded ITs adds to the problem. Also, the coin-flippy nature of vortex makes or breaks the engagement which usually means decent trade or utter annihilation of the P army. Just because certain players have perfected a certain build that is high risk high reward accompanied by near impeccable micro, doesn't mean a particular match up is fine, since such a strategy is for all intents and purposes, prevents PvZ late game from occurring.
On January 12 2013 14:50 Protosnake wrote: I think it's pretty stupid that they would fuck up ZvP even more when it should be obvious to everyone that the issue in TvZ is the queen, just lower the range to 4
'Fuck up ZvP even more'? What do you mean? This patch is trying to address the fact the infested terran span from 20+ infestors is way too strong in ZvP as well as ZvT when terran is meching.
Because ZvP is already P favored It's T that need help, and since Z rarely ever search +1 range in ZvT this patch doesnt help them at all
How is it P favoured? Outside of immortal all in which is specifically designed to punish greedy zergs (which can be devastating for both players), Protoss is usually at a disadvantage, especially late game against broodlord/infestor comps. With fungals, brood-lords reign free and upgraded ITs adds to the problem. Also, the coin-flippy nature of vortex makes or breaks the engagement which usually means decent trade or utter annihilation of the P army. Just because certain players have perfected a certain build that is high risk high reward accompanied by near impeccable micro, doesn't mean a particular match up is fine, since such a strategy is for all intents and purposes, prevents PvZ late game from occurring.
But we're not outside Immortal all-in. This is a legit part of the game and statistics favor protoss in that matchup. I'd really love if immortal sentry all-in was removed and lategame PvZ made less stupid but this is just not happening right now.
On January 12 2013 14:50 Protosnake wrote: I think it's pretty stupid that they would fuck up ZvP even more when it should be obvious to everyone that the issue in TvZ is the queen, just lower the range to 4
'Fuck up ZvP even more'? What do you mean? This patch is trying to address the fact the infested terran span from 20+ infestors is way too strong in ZvP as well as ZvT when terran is meching.
Because ZvP is already P favored It's T that need help, and since Z rarely ever search +1 range in ZvT this patch doesnt help them at all
How is it P favoured? Outside of immortal all in which is specifically designed to punish greedy zergs (which can be devastating for both players), Protoss is usually at a disadvantage, especially late game against broodlord/infestor comps. With fungals, brood-lords reign free and upgraded ITs adds to the problem. Also, the coin-flippy nature of vortex makes or breaks the engagement which usually means decent trade or utter annihilation of the P army. Just because certain players have perfected a certain build that is high risk high reward accompanied by near impeccable micro, doesn't mean a particular match up is fine, since such a strategy is for all intents and purposes, prevents PvZ late game from occurring.
But we're not outside Immortal all-in. This is a legit part of the game and statistics favor protoss in that matchup. I'd really love if immortal sentry all-in was removed and lategame PvZ made less stupid but this is just not happening right now.
Immortal/Sentry all-ins appear to have been figured out at the pro level. As far as I can tell, it had a losing winrate at the last GSL. The only player who consistently wins doing it is Parting, and even he got knocked out the GSL doing it. Nobody else in Korea has some super high PvZ winrate because of Immortal all-ins.
We’ve held off on these changes until now primarily because we thought having different sets of hidden start location rules for each map might be confusing to lower level players. At this point, however, we feel that most StarCraft II players have a solid understanding of starting locations on each map.
What the hell, this makes no sense, they decided not to do anything until now because of this reason?
There are tons of hidden or secret rules you have to discover in order to become better at this game but the map locations sure as hell isn't one of them.
I seriously want to post a big damn facepalm picture here but I'm gonna refrain from doing so to save work for the TL.Mods since its not their fault for Blizzard fucking up.
EDIT: i'll just post a descriptive facepalm picture, mods can feel free to give me a descriptive warning/ban if they wish **Facepalm picture**
I sure hope that is just some excuse, because it always sounds like Blizzard is catering to 5 year olds or think the majority of their customer base is really really stupid.
On January 12 2013 10:17 Zrana wrote: Doesn't it seem like there's basically no reason to get range upgrades now for zerg, apart from maybe holding some all-ins with +1? Though even that is questionable.
If you only played infestor armies... sure. But that's the whole problem and what they are trying to fix in the first place.
Well the problem is going roach/hydra is asking to be faceraped by any kind of splash damage or any T or P army over 150 supply.
If roach/hydra was more supply efficient it would be worth getting ranged ups because you'd know you could do ok in the lategame. The patch does nothing to address the issue that the broodlord, infestor and zerglings are the only supply-efficient units zerg has so we are still pigeonholed into the same lategame comp which everyone has been complaining about for the past year. Ofc it's np if you can keep both you and your opponent's supply low with trading but that relies on timing attacks which can be figured out and defended, it can never be solid macro play.
Yeah DRG never figured out how to make Muta/Bane/Ling/Infestor cost efficient... oh wait. Seemed to work out just fine for DRG.
There is clearly a double standard with how Blizz deals with Zerg in comparison to other races. Look how carefully they are trying to fix infestors and how long they are taking, whereas Blizzard just nerfed the fuck out of ghosts and never came back to them.
Blizzards arguments for why it is confusing for lower level players simply does not make sense, Shakuras Plateau always had "weird" spawn positions, that was not really confusing for anyone was it? Also they do not seem to realise that the problem with IT is vs Mech, where ranged upgrades does not really matter. Once again they seem incompetent.
On January 13 2013 03:19 Esk23 wrote: There is clearly a double standard with how Blizz deals with Zerg in comparison to other races. Look how carefully they are trying to fix infestors and how long they are taking, whereas Blizzard just nerfed the fuck out of ghosts and never came back to them.
Ghost: 4patches (3nerfs+1buff/change) since release Infestor: 4patches (3nerfs+1buff/change) and one more incoming
And if you say snipe was nerfed way harder, I'll say that NP which dominated all matchups was nerfed at least equally hard
Cap infestor count at 12 or something, I dont see the "16 High Templar build after loosing my whole fucking base" coming back any time soon so no biggie we should be fine with a spellcaster cap. The problem isnt about infestors, its about mass infestors, fungal is needed, just like forcefields, no nubcakes, fungal isnt the reason you're loosing, you played poorly sorry. Mass infestor is kind of a problem (and not as big as the QQ Train says), it was kind of obvious that an overall good spellcaster that can escape easily and pop temporary armies cant work on a balance level if there 30 of them. But still, they are needed, because the balance was built around it, make the fungal a slow? Alright, remove forcefields then, and make tanks 6 range, because zerg has NO, 0 control without fungal, making it projectile wouldnt work too well, maybe a slight nerf of the damage, but mostly, really, from what I'm seing in the pro scene and on ladder, really? Wake the fuck up and start changing the way you play, brood infestor ZvP got so many timings, and weaknesses, speed prism are impossible to catch on some maps, and if it's not Stephano or Leenock defending there is a lot of damage to be done to so many camping zergs. I'm just really amazed that most of this community didnt look for solutions and instead went to a WHIIIINE WAAAAVE, I mean, I didnt see that since speed reapers on Lost Temple close positions, and even then you'd find people to tell you "no zerg is fine, work harder, no imbalance, you'll see there wont be a patch", well, it was obviously imbalanced then, and it's absolutely not obviously imbalanced now, but the fact is, Blizzard is listening to the whine in both cases, so for all of you gold to high masters protoss and terran, congratulations, good for you, You Now Have A Great Excuse When You Lose!
i recall those glory days of SC2 when xelnaga caverns was the only 2 player map and everyone thinks it's imbalanced
nowadays every single 4 player map gets whined at by seemingly the entire community because they're imbalanced unless you make them de facto 2 player maps. how times change.
On January 12 2013 10:19 Xpace wrote: "We've held off on these changes until now primarily because we thought having different sets of hidden start location rules for each map might be confusing to lower level players." "At this point we feel that most StarCraft II players have a solid understanding of starting locations on each map."
EPT
