EPTHere is the quote: "Here's an announcement which will probably please you : I'll probably (certainly) participate in the next GSL code S for the first time!!"
Lets see how he will do!
Stephano most probably going to Code S
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Rescawen
Finland1028 Posts
Here is the quote: "Here's an announcement which will probably please you : I'll probably (certainly) participate in the next GSL code S for the first time!!" Lets see how he will do!
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Nyarly
France1030 Posts
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zachMEISTER
United States625 Posts
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EnumaAvalon
Philippines3613 Posts
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Laryleprakon
New Zealand9496 Posts
It would be awesome to see Scarlett' as the other seed and some of the big names to make it thro up/downs. | ||
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Zaphid
Czech Republic1860 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
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ardi
United States187 Posts
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JazzNL
182 Posts
Best of luck to him, I think he belongs in that scene! | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Polt in TL shirt ^^ | ||
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PresenceSc2
Australia4032 Posts
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Looms
United States4624 Posts
The time has finally come. Hopefully he will take this extremely seriously, otherwise he will just get rolled over, sadly  | ||
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packrat386
United States5077 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:00 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Yay, one of my predictions for the new year already going through. Next up: Polt in TL shirt ^^ Liquid polt would almost be too amazing | ||
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Sumahi
Guam5609 Posts
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bbm
United Kingdom1320 Posts
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Solarsail
United Kingdom538 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:02 Looms wrote: Stephano in Code S! (and Proleague too?) The time has finally come. Hopefully he will take this extremely seriously, otherwise he will just get rolled over, sadly Hope the Koreans take HIM seriously or they'll get rolled worse than GSL WC. | ||
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InfusedTT.DaZe
Romania693 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Opera
France469 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:06 monkybone wrote: not with a 4 Zerg semi final bracket like usual.... Right, because there were 4 zergs in last GSL Ro4. | ||
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iTzSnypah
United States1738 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:08 Opera wrote: Right, because there were 4 zergs in last GSL Ro4. Just 3. How dare he. | ||
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terfand
Russian Federation119 Posts
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krutopatkin
Germany2612 Posts
Actually it were 2 | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
Oh right! Not sure why I counted Bogus as zerg, haha. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
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Scorch
Austria3371 Posts
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
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ff7legend
United States213 Posts
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StrinterN
Denmark531 Posts
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dubRa
2165 Posts
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Opera
France469 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:13 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Stephano will just get owned. Just check his achievements. What have he done for while? Nothing! Just got owned by mid/low tier pros. Stephano is far away from what he used to be. He will just get owned, that's hard reality. Won Lone Star Clash in november, beat 4 GSL champions in a row too. You're right, he has done nothing. | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
he said he plays better if there's no expectations for him, so i exaggerated a bit. to be honest though, he was probably 'forced' to do this by EG, as he has stated numerous times that he doesn't think it makes sense for him to play Code S. unless he changed his opinion i guess. | ||
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Lylat
France8575 Posts
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
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Killmouse
Austria5700 Posts
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TheBloodyDwarf
Finland7524 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:18 Opera wrote: Won Lone Star Clash in november, beat 4 GSL champions in a row too. You're right, he has done nothing. Yeah, you take one tournament that wasnt realy that high level of playing (you know if watched it) compared to several tournaments where he got owned by low/mid tier players. And since when did he beat 4 GSL champion in LSC? | ||
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NeonFox
2373 Posts
Gl Stephano, hope you win it all but not looking forward to reading the LR threads. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Stephano gonna get paid | ||
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phipsL
Germany189 Posts
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NeutralDepot
80 Posts
If he meets a lot of terrans early on he could get far. With protoss it's a kinda even call and with good zergs he is dead already. I don't see Life/Sniper/Hyun/Leenock lose to Stephano at all. | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:18 Opera wrote: Won Lone Star Clash in november, beat 4 GSL champions in a row too. You're right, he has done nothing. Also 4th at HSC is still a good result imo, even for Stephano. | ||
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NeutralDepot
80 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:24 NeonFox wrote: If he wins haters will find excuses, if he loses in his first GSL while having little or no preparation and playing Proleague at the same time they will say he sucks and that they knew it all along. Gl Stephano, hope you win it all but not looking forward to reading the LR threads. And what are you doing? You are actually finding excuses in advance for either of the situations. Nicely done. | ||
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Dingodile
4133 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:23 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Yeah, you take one tournament that wasnt realy that high level of playing (you know if watched it) compared to several tournaments where he got owned by low/mid tier players. And since when did he beat 4 GSL champion in LSC? You know that he got owned by zerg players, LiquidHero (two times) and Parting (one time) since he joined EG. All other werent able to beat him. | ||
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Demicore
France503 Posts
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Musicus
Germany23576 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:26 NeutralDepot wrote: This is stupid actually. In a 40 minute interview he said that the GSL format doesn't fit him well and that he does better in a short tournament (max 3 days) with random opponents. He also said that he thinks there's too little money in the prize pool for such a long time of preparation and matches. But I guess it's just an EG decision and he didn't really have a choice. If he meets a lot of terrans early on he could get far. With protoss it's a kinda even call and with good zergs he is dead already. I don't see Life/Sniper/Hyun/Leenock lose to Stephano at all. Well it was announced that he would be in korea playing proleague starting january and it was confírmed a long time ago that he has a code S seed waiting for him, so it only makes sense that he takes the chance for more money when he is in korea anyway. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
Though I quite feel this is not the format where he can shine... Tough test, but interesting nonetheless ! Gogo Stephano ! | ||
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Lunareste
United States3596 Posts
Thank you Stephano. Thank you for finally going to participate in the best league in the world, where you won't get by on free wins against easy opponents who don't really prepare for you. | ||
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ImNaked
United Kingdom13 Posts
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TwiStEr
Germany115 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:35 Lunareste wrote: Man, I have been waiting for the day I get to see the foreigner dreams crushed. Thank you Stephano. Thank you for finally going to participate in the best league in the world, where you won't get by on free wins against easy opponents who don't really prepare for you. Depends on how he takes it (seriously enough or not). Foreigner can definitely do well (Naniwa made a few Ro8 this year...), though we'll never see again a Terran Foreigner in GSL for a long time.. (Jinro ) | ||
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PiQLiQ
Sweden702 Posts
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sc2pal
Poland624 Posts
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iKill
Denmark861 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:00 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Yay, one of my predictions for the new year already going through. Next up: Polt in TL shirt ^^ not gonna happen, he's going to the US. liquid is now almost completely a korean team, with korean players + a shared KR house with EG. | ||
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Rococo
United States331 Posts
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Asterion
Germany193 Posts
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Glubschauge
Austria1216 Posts
i hope he'll do well | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On the contrary, Stephano got famous for his LWW.. series (much like Jaedong himself), as he was able to adapt intelligently in longer series to the style he faces. If anything, he should thrive in a league like the GSL, where he can prepare carefully for his opponents. That's exactly what he's great at - deconstructing the style of the enemy. | ||
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
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Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
Guaranteed  Creator HyuN BogusSoulKeyMarineKingRyungLeenockSniperCuriousNoblesseRorOHack[Z] Bboong GuMihoPoltPartinGMvpLifeBaByKeeNUp and Down predictions Flash & VampireTaeJa & TrapDongRaeGu & SymbolHerO & [P] sOsFantasy & FlyingSeed Predictions Stephano SnuteStatistics: Terran: 13 Protoss: 7 Zerg: 12 Koreans (ESF): 22 Koreans (KeSPA): 8 Foreigners: 2 | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
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Rescawen
Finland1028 Posts
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:45 Rescawen wrote: where did you pull snute from? Wondering this as well, the other seed will be a KeSPA pro without a doubt. | ||
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ETisME
12393 Posts
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Mawwrice
Switzerland23 Posts
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Terranist
United States2496 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:43 figq wrote: Huhuh, people act as though Stephano's strength is in short series vs random opponents on the fly. On the contrary, Stephano got famous for his LWW.. series (much like Jaedong himself), as he was able to adapt intelligently in longer series to the style he faces. If anything, he should thrive in a league like the GSL, where he can prepare carefully for his opponents. That's exactly what he's great at - deconstructing the style of the enemy. it's the complete opposite really. stephano plays the same vs every opponent and waits for them to make stupid mistakes. he will be dismantled by koreans in their own league system. his style of play shows barely any preparation for opponents. | ||
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ibraishome
Germany337 Posts
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ColtraneL
France248 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:44 FeyFey wrote: awww that sucks, I prefer him running through all the other tournaments. Also can't imagine Stephano preparing for opponents. Him playing in Proleague basically mean two matches a week against good koreans, so it is fine for me. As for his performance in GSL, I trust he will use the new motivation to play well but it still depends a lot on the group he is in. For example, if his RO8 player is Ryung or MKP, he can beat them, if it is Creator it must be about even (he still wins half of his PvZ's against the best players) but there are 5 good zerg who could crush him (I know Steph can pull out great performance in ZvZ though sometimes). Overall with the number of terrans and protoss in first round code S, I think he has a decent shot depending on the consequences of the next patch. | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
Good luck with GSL Stephano! What Im looking forward to the most is watching how the insane amount of practice available to GSL-players might affect him. | ||
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WetSocks
United States953 Posts
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Striding Strider
United Kingdom787 Posts
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JazVM
Germany1196 Posts
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Greenhit
United States200 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:50 Terranist wrote: it's the complete opposite really. stephano plays the same vs every opponent and waits for them to make stupid mistakes. he will be dismantled by koreans in their own league system. his style of play shows barely any preparation for opponents. This. Even he had acknowledged in the "grilled" interview that he wouldnt foresee himself doing well because of the amount of player specific preparation. He (Imo) gave the impression that his style of practice is more or less just grinding games, I believe he might of even said he doesn't watch vods study replays etc. Im sure some of that is Stephanos whole "I dont practice"shtick but yeah Terranist is right on the money. I dont think hed drop out right away, but at the same time it wouldnt surprise me if that makes sense. Am I wrong in thinking his performance in Proleague will to an extent be a reflection of what GSL might be like for him? | ||
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Goibon
New Zealand8185 Posts
We shall see :D | ||
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Bartuk
Austria13 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:24 NeonFox wrote: If he wins haters will find excuses, if he loses in his first GSL while having little or no preparation and playing Proleague at the same time they will say he sucks and that they knew it all along. Gl Stephano, hope you win it all but not looking forward to reading the LR threads. If he wins one match people will hail him as the best player of the world instantly. If he loses people will use the no preparation and playing Proleague at the same as excuse. Indeed, the live report thread will be a mess. | ||
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Hollandrock
United Kingdom158 Posts
Slightly confused about these two... Where did you get the information about Snute? And does MKP play protoss now?  | ||
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
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mclalimace
Canada66 Posts
Even if i don't necessarily expect much from Stephano, i hope he'll do well. I guess the number of viewers for this season will increase significantly, especially since this is the last WoL GSL. Now Mvp to win his fifth title and i can die in peace. | ||
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:58 Assirra wrote: If he wins one match people will hail him as the best player of the world instantly. If he loses people will use the no preparation and playing Proleague at the same as excuse. Indeed, the live report thread will be a mess. And what about the people who will be glad to see him win a match, and disappointed if he loses... ? | ||
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Asterion
Germany193 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:59 Hollandrock wrote: Slightly confused about these two... Where did you get the information about Snute? And does MKP play protoss now? While we are at it: | ||
KristofferAG
Norway25712 Posts
I'd rather see him go through Code A or U&D first. | ||
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Tsubbi
Germany7996 Posts
but wont get my hopes up before it is confirmed | ||
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Aando
1304 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:01 Ragnarork wrote: And what about the people who will be glad to see him win a match, and disappointed if he loses... ? It's Stephano we're talking about. He's either the best player to ever grace this earth or a lucker scrub nub who plays an op race. There seem to be no middle-ground when it comes his (anti-) fans. | ||
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Bahajinbo
Germany488 Posts
But great to see HuK & Grubby in the Up & Down matches as well as YongHwa. I hope they do well. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
And even with Marineking playing protoss there's not 9 of them in Code S if his predictions come true. | ||
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Sc2Null
United States3754 Posts
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
stephano dominates forever - "means nothing not code S meowchow" stephano goes to code S - "who cares he'll get rolled lol foreigners" | ||
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phoenixfeather95
665 Posts
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IndyO
392 Posts
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Garnet
Vietnam9021 Posts
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Soda-88
Croatia476 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:08 phoenixfeather95 wrote: MKP is toss?! He was in Brood War | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:08 phoenixfeather95 wrote: MKP is toss?! tlpd fail from his BW days one would assume | ||
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bouboule
American Samoa62 Posts
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RampageMode
Germany3 Posts
gl hf, defeat some koreans  | ||
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Cinim
Denmark866 Posts
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
On December 28 2012 19:54 DarkLordOlli wrote: I don't think it'll end well for him at all. But I'm ready to be proven wrong! If he is going to play in ProLeague, that's the best place to practice for him. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
making the nestea and go 2-0 2-0 2-0 3-0 3-0 4-0 4-0 ... making the foreign going instand out by to less prep time and having jetlag | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
I have a feeling him doing it is more because of EG than anything else. A bit morose about Huk seed. The guy doesn't manage to get pass Code A qualifiers for quite some time now. | ||
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Acied
Germany21 Posts
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Sorathez
Australia209 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:16 CoR wrote: i cant see him go 2-1 1-2 etc tjhere are exactly 2 possibilitys: making the nestea and go 2-0 2-0 2-0 3-0 3-0 4-0 4-0 ... making the foreign going instand out by to less prep time and having jetlag I don't think jetlag should be a problem, he'll likely arrive early enough. EG's not gonna have jetlag interfere with Stephano in Code S. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:01 Ragnarork wrote: And what about the people who will be glad to see him win a match, and disappointed if he loses... ? They will avoid the LR thread for the sake of their sanity | ||
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Boundz(DarKo)
5311 Posts
AND GOOD LUCK | ||
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:13 TheBloodyDwarf wrote: Stephano will just get owned. Just check his achievements. What have he done for while? Nothing! Just got owned by mid/low tier pros. Stephano is far away from what he used to be. He will just get owned, that's hard reality. yeah, beating Mvp, MKP and MMA with a totally new strategy is nothing special... | ||
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figq
12519 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:50 Terranist wrote: He does that in non-GSL leagues though, and only recently, since he became too good to even matter. However, in the past he was capitalizing on understanding the style of the opponent and dismantling him, preferably in longer series. The longer, the better. Which is what he'll have to come back to in the GSL. Exciting times ahead.it's the complete opposite really. stephano plays the same vs every opponent and waits for them to make stupid mistakes. he will be dismantled by koreans in their own league system. his style of play shows barely any preparation for opponents. | ||
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:22 Zeon0 wrote: yeah, beating Mvp, MKP and MMA with a totally new strategy is nothing special... Well... GSL is different. They'll have time to analyze him and pick him apart. Also note that none of the above mentioned were performing very well when Stephano beat them. MKP is notoriously weak vs zerg atm, MMA sadly is notoriously bad in general atm and Mvp was never known to be an online beast. Mvp is the kind of player who will beat Stephano the hardest in the GSL. | ||
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GunSec
1095 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well... GSL is different. They'll have time to analyze him and pick him apart. Also note that none of the above mentioned were performing very well when Stephano beat them. MKP is notoriously weak vs zerg atm, MMA sadly is notoriously bad in general atm and Mvp was never known to be an online beast. Mvp is the kind of player who will beat Stephano the hardest in the GSL. People said that about his earlier strategies, and they took months to really adapt. | ||
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Herfelt
Denmark89 Posts
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CYFAWS
Sweden275 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:26 bo1b wrote: People said that about his earlier strategies, and they took months to really adapt. Indeed, why? Because he was never playing in Code S and the Koreans pretty much adapt to strategies when they have to face them. Preparing for a weekend tournament is entirely different. People said Rain was the best player in the world. He went on crazy runs through weekend tournaments and OSL and then? Mvp had enough info to beat him when he had to. That's what happens in GSL. | ||
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paNNN
Germany10 Posts
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RaelSan
Belgium223 Posts
Brace yourselves, Stephano is going to code S ! | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well... GSL is different. They'll have time to analyze him and pick him apart. please explain why stephano can't do the same. also please explain why koreans going to foreign tournaments are at a natural disadvantage as they have no time to gameplan against all likely opponents, yet stephano magically can | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:27 DarkLordOlli wrote: Indeed, why? Because he was never playing in Code S and the Koreans pretty much adapt to strategies when they have to face them. Preparing for a weekend tournament is entirely different. People said Rain was the best player in the world. He went on crazy runs through weekend tournaments and OSL and then? Mvp had enough info to beat him when he had to. That's what happens in GSL. So the korean protosses he continually stomped couldn't be bothered figuring out an answer because he wasn't in code s? That seems absurd but I could be wrong. | ||
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Ace1123
Philippines1187 Posts
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TurboMaN
Germany925 Posts
He can show is real skills there, because there he'll only meet the best players. How can he directly go into Code S and doesn't qualify via Code A or something? Invite? | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:31 sixfour wrote: please explain why stephano can't do the same. also please explain why koreans going to foreign tournaments are at a natural disadvantage as they have no time to gameplan against all likely opponents, yet stephano magically can Stephano doesn't prepare much for opponents, he's said so himself. He just relies on good, solid gameplay. But that's the thing, every player in Code S could do that. OR they prepare different builds especially designed to beat certain players. I'd agree that if GSL wasn't preparation based, Stephano would do well. But it is. On December 28 2012 21:34 bo1b wrote: So the korean protosses he continually stomped couldn't be bothered figuring out an answer because he wasn't in code s? That seems absurd but I could be wrong. You gotta keep in mind that his strategies took some time to be implanted in the korean metagame. Which means korean protosses in their practice weren't instantly facing Stephano's strategies when he came up with them. So basically they'd only face them when they faced Stephano, hence his "stomping". When stuff like the roach max went over to korea, people like HerO and MC had them figured out pretty fast. | ||
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote: Stephano doesn't prepare much for opponents, he's said so himself. He just relies on good, solid gameplay. But that's the thing, every player in Code S could do that. OR they prepare different builds especially designed to beat certain players. I'd agree that if GSL wasn't preparation based, Stephano would do well. But it is. How do you prepare against someone who can do almost anything? Stephano's strong point is (in ZvP and ZvT) his ability to have a lot of different builds be can use, which makes it harder to prepare, especially since he's recently decided to mix in roach/hydra zvt. You can scout, but you need to be bang on with your scouting to make sure you know what's coming, so you don't prepare for the wrong thing. Being able to prepare is one thing, but Stephano is pretty versatile in his builds, so you can't be entirely sure what might be coming. That's a lot to prepare for. His weakness is ZvZ, which is likely to hold him back in Korea unless he can "fix" it over the course of his time in GSL. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:38 DarkLordOlli wrote: Stephano doesn't prepare much for opponents, he's said so himself. He just relies on good, solid gameplay. But that's the thing, every player in Code S could do that. OR they prepare different builds especially designed to beat certain players. I'd agree that if GSL wasn't preparation based, Stephano would do well. But it is. oh wow this is terrible | ||
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KoBlades
Austria248 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:34 Philozovic wrote: Best CHRISTMAS GIFT EVER !!!!!!! well this is sad^^ jk but seriously i hope stephano can take this chance, although I think it would have been better if he had played in the GSL a few months ago. but we'll see. | ||
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ZerglingTwins
United States850 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:41 Lonyo wrote: How do you prepare against someone who can do almost anything? Stephano's strong point is (in ZvP and ZvT) his ability to have a lot of different builds be can use, which makes it harder to prepare, especially since he's recently decided to mix in roach/hydra zvt. You can scout, but you need to be bang on with your scouting to make sure you know what's coming, so you don't prepare for the wrong thing. Being able to prepare is one thing, but Stephano is pretty versatile in his builds, so you can't be entirely sure what might be coming. That's a lot to prepare for. His weakness is ZvZ, which is likely to hold him back in Korea unless he can "fix" it over the course of his time in GSL. You really think these Code S koreans can't do "almost everything" either? Stephano is known for ling/infestor, strong lategame often with ultras first and recently his roach/hydra ZvT, just to name a few. People like Mvp will figure out patterns, get into his head, see weaknesses and capitalize. HerO even figured out ways to abuse Stephano's way of playing from just playing against him in WCS and IPL. | ||
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Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:31 sixfour wrote: please explain why stephano can't do the same. also please explain why koreans going to foreign tournaments are at a natural disadvantage as they have no time to gameplan against all likely opponents, yet stephano magically can Stephano just thrill in light preparation matches. And he often said he doesn't like to prepare for matches, feels like there's no point and it does making him play worse for some reason | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
We should be thankful for Gom that they still offer seeds to foreigners. They do this to attract more viewers, but still those seeds spice up the whole league. Stephano is a hard-working pro gamer nonetheless. The haters in the forums are just immature nerds who need a hug. | ||
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Gimmeurladderpoints
Germany372 Posts
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Prog455
Denmark970 Posts
On December 28 2012 19:57 X3GoldDot wrote: yeah honestly with his form recently thinking he will go out in ro32 unless he gets a really easy group or he just gets out of his slump again I think it is a bit exaggerated to say that Stephano is in a slump. Obviously he has not been winning anything the last month or so, but that doesn't mean that he is slumping. Remember IPL 5? He finished at 25th-32nd place, which is by no means anywhere near his usual standards. But at the GSL World Championship that was held at the same avenue he almost managed to all-kill team Korea, beating players such as Life (reigning GSL Champion), DRG, MC and Seed (all former GSL Champions), only losing to Squirtle. He is not doing as well as he used to, but he has been performing fairly good at almost every tournament he has entered while on his so called slump. | ||
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Xpace
United States2209 Posts
I agree with this reaction to the previous comment; but at the same time I think several people in this thread are underestimating both Code S and Stephano. | ||
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mileu
Germany1 Post
My prediction: Stephano will get hard stompted and he'll end streaming HotS like Lz, Machine and Idra... | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
More Stephano beats money or chocolats everyday. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:52 Xpace wrote: I agree with this reaction to the previous comment; but at the same time I think several people in this thread are underestimating both Code S and Stephano. i just hope he plays his best. i just cannot understand the line of thinking re: preparation. if stephano can roll koreans because they're not preparing for foreign events WHEN HE'S NOT PREPARING HIMSELF, surely (any weak zerg imba arguments aside) that just indicates he has mechanics on par or superior to koreans, and implying that he has no ability to gameplan is really quite absurd. edit - in fact it's even more absurd considering preparation mostly comes down to having the intelligence to interpret opponent's tendencies, an intelligence that stephano clearly has given everything that he's demonstrated for the past 2 years (intentions to keep on with study, recognising he can make more money outside of korea rather than gambooling into a place with 1 tournament with hugely top-heavy prize money and a much higher level of opponent until he's secured financially, both with tournament win$ and now with a monster-powered team to pay him surely more than what millenium did) | ||
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Gimmeurladderpoints
Germany372 Posts
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Olli
Austria24417 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:57 sixfour wrote: i just hope he plays his best. i just cannot understand the line of thinking re: preparation. if stephano can roll koreans because they're not preparing for foreign events WHEN HE'S NOT PREPARING HIMSELF, surely (any weak zerg imba arguments aside) that just indicates he has mechanics on par or superior to koreans, and implying that he has no ability to gameplan is really quite absurd. Yeah, of course. I did say he'd have great chances if GSL wasn't preparation based. His mechanics and understanding of the game are really fucking good, nobody can argue against that. It's just not something that means he'll do well in Code S. Mvp keeps winning Code S because of preparation, not because his mechanics are superior. About Stephano not preparing much, I'm just repeating what he said himself. But, as I also said, I'd be very happy to be proven wrong! | ||
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FakePseudo
Belgium716 Posts
Best Of Luck! | ||
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konqueror
Poland9 Posts
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Lonyo
United Kingdom3884 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:06 konqueror wrote: I wonder if Stephano would acheve so much if he didn'd play zerg. Yeah, winning infestorless ZvT and also not using GGlords against Koreans is so easy. Stephano has shown he can do well without using infestors or broodlords, and he was also doing well before zerg "became OP". He's not a patchzerg, he was good with zerg when it wasn't the strongest race. So while he might not have achieved quite as much, the same applies to any top zerg, they may also not have achieved as much. It doesn't stop him being a top zerg though... He's good AND he plays zerg, he's not good BECAUSE he plays zerg. | ||
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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NuclearJudas
6546 Posts
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Nirel
Israel1526 Posts
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Chr15t
Denmark1103 Posts
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Freibier
Germany3 Posts
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:06 konqueror wrote: I wonder if Stephano would acheve so much if he didn'd play zerg. Would mvp had 4 gsl if he wasn't playing terran in 2011 ? People tend to forget that Stephano was awesome way before Zerg was good. Late 2011 Early 2012 there was 4 zergs in the world : Stephano, Leenock, DRG, Nestea and Violet came in the early days of 2012 and that was it. The other zerg (Curious, Revival,Golden, Lucky) were all tier 2 players. No Hyun, No life, No Sniper, no foreigner patch zerg at that time. Stephano is everything but a Infestor abuser, you can't call him a patch zerg ! | ||
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:15 Freibier wrote: Ok, we had a very good foreign Protoss in code S, now a zerg. Now we just need a good foreign Terran in code S. Oh wait... Jinro was there already and we've had 2 Protoss with deep runs in the GSL, HuK and Naniwa, time for Zerg! | ||
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Mahanaim
Korea (South)1002 Posts
Wish PL and GSL won't burn him out though... | ||
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sPSalai
Sweden16 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:18 Cokefreak wrote: Jinro was there already and we've had 2 Protoss with deep runs in the GSL, HuK and Naniwa, time for Zerg! You forgot iDra. At that time he was quite good. (now he's just... weird. Sometime he rolls over everyone and the next time he look like a bad player). Damn i miss that leather jacket in the booth :-( | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:18 Cokefreak wrote: Jinro was there already and we've had 2 Protoss with deep runs in the GSL, HuK and Naniwa, time for Zerg! Idra made Ro8 when only 3 zergs (Him, Nestea and Zenio) were in Ro16 no small feat ! | ||
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Cokefreak
Finland8095 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:22 FFW_Rude wrote: You forgot iDra. At that time he was quite good. (now he's just... weird. Sometime he rolls over everyone and the next time he look like a bad player). Damn i miss that leather jacket in the booth :-( Oh damn, you're correct, how could I forget him, well then I guess it's time for another Terran as well. | ||
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RaelSan
Belgium223 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:53 mileu wrote: My hope: Stephano wins the GSL as the first foreigner!!! Go for it dude!!! My prediction: Stephano will get hard stompted and he'll end streaming HotS like Lz, Machine and Idra... Well that's a bit extreme... | ||
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Irave
United States9965 Posts
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Seohce
United Kingdom394 Posts
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lacho_u
Bulgaria535 Posts
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JohnMatrix
France1357 Posts
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lordofsoup
United States159 Posts
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MrJoKer
France232 Posts
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Tibbroar
United States161 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:18 Philozovic wrote: Would mvp had 4 gsl if he wasn't playing terran in 2011 ? People tend to forget that Stephano was awesome way before Zerg was good. Late 2011 Early 2012 there was 4 zergs in the world : Stephano, Leenock, DRG, Nestea and Violet came in the early days of 2012 and that was it. The other zerg (Curious, Revival,Golden, Lucky) were all tier 2 players. No Hyun, No life, No Sniper, no foreigner patch zerg at that time. Stephano is everything but a Infestor abuser, you can't call him a patch zerg ! Yes, yes he would have. People have forgotten at this point that Mvp was a mechanical monster before his wrists blew up. Sure, there are players around now that are at the level he was, but he was the only one really bringing kespa a-teamer level mechanics at that time. Anyone that ever watched one of his rare streaming sessions from that time knows it too, its why he was able to tear up foreign tournaments at that time too, he was just by far the most complete player in the world. As far as your actual point, yeah, stephano is no patchzerg, he's had a much rougher time of it since the patch because he runs into ZvZ more often. He was winning vs z P and T well before the patch, and this is coming from someone that REALLY doesn't care for stephano. Or foreigners in general really... except grubby, everyone should love grubby. | ||
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Markwerf
Netherlands3728 Posts
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sherriluv
Sweden38 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:39 sherriluv wrote: Im not hating or anything I would just like to see him fail miserable.. gogo korean domination I hope that he gets destroyed, not that I'm hating or anything ^^ ~(^u^)~ + Show Spoiler + sentence is slightly contradictory | ||
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vzSo
Switzerland33 Posts
i really think he will make it far as long it's not zvz every round. | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:38 Tibbroar wrote: Yes, yes he would have. People have forgotten at this point that Mvp was a mechanical monster before his wrists blew up. Sure, there are players around now that are at the level he was, but he was the only one really bringing kespa a-teamer level mechanics at that time. Anyone that ever watched one of his rare streaming sessions from that time knows it too, its why he was able to tear up foreign tournaments at that time too, he was just by far the most complete player in the world. As far as your actual point, yeah, stephano is no patchzerg, he's had a much rougher time of it since the patch because he runs into ZvZ more often. He was winning vs z P and T well before the patch, and this is coming from someone that REALLY doesn't care for stephano. Or foreigners in general really... except grubby, everyone should love grubby. People also over exaggerate how good his mechanics were pre-wrist explosion. | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:38 Tibbroar wrote: Yes, yes he would have. People have forgotten at this point that Mvp was a mechanical monster before his wrists blew up. Sure, there are players around now that are at the level he was, but he was the only one really bringing kespa a-teamer level mechanics at that time. Anyone that ever watched one of his rare streaming sessions from that time knows it too, its why he was able to tear up foreign tournaments at that time too, he was just by far the most complete player in the world. As far as your actual point, yeah, stephano is no patchzerg, he's had a much rougher time of it since the patch because he runs into ZvZ more often. He was winning vs z P and T well before the patch, and this is coming from someone that REALLY doesn't care for stephano. Or foreigners in general really... except grubby, everyone should love grubby. I don't think MVP was such a mechanical monster as you make him to be. He had GOOD mechanics, but they weren't top notch. DRG for example was way way faster, Yonghwa had amazing mechanics as well. MVP's strength has always been that he has been above average at every single aspect of SC2, decision making seems to be his greatest though. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:45 Andr3 wrote: I don't think MVP was such a mechanical monster as you make him to be. He had GOOD mechanics, but they weren't top notch. DRG for example was way way faster, Yonghwa had amazing mechanics as well. MVP's strength has always been that he has been above average at every single aspect of SC2, decision making seems to be his greatest though. He had 150-170 eapm at blizzcon 2011, to say that mechanics were ever really mvp's strength is kind of silly. He was certainly no MMA or Bomber. Making the seemingly perfect move consistently was what made mvp win 4 championships. | ||
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:38 Tibbroar wrote: Yes, yes he would have. People have forgotten at this point that Mvp was a mechanical monster before his wrists blew up. Sure, there are players around now that are at the level he was, but he was the only one really bringing kespa a-teamer level mechanics at that time. Anyone that ever watched one of his rare streaming sessions from that time knows it too, its why he was able to tear up foreign tournaments at that time too, he was just by far the most complete player in the world. As far as your actual point, yeah, stephano is no patchzerg, he's had a much rougher time of it since the patch because he runs into ZvZ more often. He was winning vs z P and T well before the patch, and this is coming from someone that REALLY doesn't care for stephano. Or foreigners in general really... except grubby, everyone should love grubby. im sorry but MVP wasnt the best at mechanics, he was just the smartest player in the world and coupled with his incredible mechanics ( not the best) that was why he succeeded, now he relies almost on preparation and experience alone since his wrists are fucked | ||
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kju
6143 Posts
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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joeace
4 Posts
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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Inflicted
Australia18228 Posts
edit: Can't happen cause of GSL points | ||
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Ryps
Romania2740 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:53 Inflicted_ wrote: They need to invite NaNiwa, so we can have a Stephano-NaNiwa-HuK-NesTea (Ro32) group And Nestea takes 2 RO 16 spots. GG | ||
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Philozovic
France1677 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:38 Tibbroar wrote: Yes, yes he would have. It wasn't really a question, of course he would have, he is no patch terran | ||
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Krogan
Sweden375 Posts
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
though, it's pretty clear anti-fun Sniper will take him with his first pick -__- (unless Sniper is STILL pissed off about people underrating him and takes a big-name Korean first instead of taking the most favorable player/matchup) | ||
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Fjodorov
5007 Posts
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mostevil
United Kingdom611 Posts
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Trasko
Sweden983 Posts
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Irre
United States646 Posts
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INNI
Sweden249 Posts
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smashlloyd20
251 Posts
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:07 Waxangel wrote: yay ^^ though, it's pretty clear anti-fun Sniper will take him with his first pick -__- (unless Sniper is STILL pissed off about people underrating him and takes a big-name Korean first instead of taking the most favorable player/matchup) interesting concept. I reckon Sniper will go with the later. Pride is important among Koreans . I'm also sure Stephano will be picked fairly early (most likely by a zerg). | ||
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DavoS
United States4605 Posts
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Telcontar
United Kingdom16710 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:20 TAMinator wrote: interesting concept. I reckon Sniper will go with the later. Pride is important among Koreans . I'm also sure Stephano will be picked fairly early (most likely by a zerg).Pride is important for all. Perhaps Koreans just wear it more openly on their sleeves. | ||
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Telsh
United States148 Posts
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DavoS
United States4605 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:20 TAMinator wrote: interesting concept. I reckon Sniper will go with the later. Pride is important among Koreans . I'm also sure Stephano will be picked fairly early (most likely by a zerg).I'm not so sure, he did beat Life and DRG in the Korea vs World series, and even his supposedly slipping ZvP powered him through Seed and MC. I think he'll do alright, at least Ro16 | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
Ofc, it would all depend on who comes up from the Up/Downs, HyuN would take a weak Korean PvZ player over anything prolly, and who knows what Sniper's motives are. | ||
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X3GoldDot
Malaysia3840 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:20 TAMinator wrote: interesting concept. I reckon Sniper will go with the later. Pride is important among Koreans . I'm also sure Stephano will be picked fairly early (most likely by a zerg).only champion and runner up get to pick in ro32 groups, he most likely wont make it to ro16 anyway so........ | ||
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Leviance
Germany4079 Posts
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
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Clbull
United Kingdom1439 Posts
No really, the amount of Code S invites Stephano has turned down prior seems to be excruciating. | ||
The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:31 Clbull wrote: HELL, IT'S ABOUT TIME! No really, the amount of Code S invites Stephano has turned down prior seems to be excruciating. just think of it as one, very long standing open invite | ||
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bo1b
Australia12814 Posts
On December 28 2012 22:48 monkybone wrote: That's very standard APM for Terran players, more than many top terrans actually. Players like gumiho and Ryung I've noticed consistently hovers around 150 (blizzard) APM. Marineking had 170 in a few replays I saw. APM =/= mechanics, especially not for terrans. Other terrans with far inferior mechanics can easily have 200-300 apm. APM may not equal mechanics, but hand speed and effective use is by far the best measuring tool we have at a glance. Players like drg and mma who consistently were above 220 eapm (not blizzard apm) are the really impressive mechanical players in sc2. MVP simply wasn't. | ||
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Krymming
Sweden38 Posts
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Finnz
United Kingdom260 Posts
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Koerage
Netherlands1220 Posts
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:07 Waxangel wrote: yay ^^ though, it's pretty clear anti-fun Sniper will take him with his first pick -__- (unless Sniper is STILL pissed off about people underrating him and takes a big-name Korean first instead of taking the most favorable player/matchup) Sniper is the Antimage of Starcraft right now. No fun allowed foreigners. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
He gotta be scared, Korea is where foreigners go to die. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21687 Posts
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Pimpmuckl
Germany528 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:39 Koerage wrote: not sure if Code Z is Stephano's place, but he might get a lucky group. At least he's finally going, about time! Wat? In S5 there were 9P 14T 9Z. Since the Up&Down didn't get played yet for 2013 S1 we can't say anything about the new season but i wouldn't be surprised to see a pretty nice race distribution once again, the GSL Terrans are just that freaking good. Topic: Fuck Yeah, finally. I really hope he practices like a beast but with Hwanni whipping Tzain around like nothing i am very confident that Park & Hwanni get him to train like he never did before | ||
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operwolf
United States324 Posts
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SomeONEx
Sweden641 Posts
Good games fighting! | ||
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Sableyeah
Netherlands2119 Posts
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neozxa
Indonesia545 Posts
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tili
United States1332 Posts
tremendously exciting, I may just buy a GSL sub if me makes it past the first round.Also, I hope this means he'll be streaming from korea! I miss his streams very much. Edit: I'm pretty sure this means he'll be practicing ZvZ very hardcore. Excellent. | ||
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MisterTea
United Kingdom1047 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:47 neozxa wrote: Foreigners are taking over the GSL apparently. Looking forward to seeing Stephano, HuK and Grubby play, hope all of them reach RO8 at least :D how do you come to that conclusion? lol | ||
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Proseat
Germany5113 Posts
Just coincides so well with him being there for round 2 of Proleague. Wonder who the other Code S seed will be. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:47 neozxa wrote: Foreigners are taking over the GSL apparently. Looking forward to seeing Stephano, HuK and Grubby play, hope all of them reach RO8 at least :D Yea those foreigners that so far never ever qualified through code A and most the time get stomped out of GSL in the same season. Clearly they are taking over. | ||
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Irre
United States646 Posts
On December 28 2012 23:49 tili wrote: tremendously exciting, I may just buy a GSL sub if me makes it past the first round.Also, I hope this means he'll be streaming from korea! I miss his streams very much. Edit: I'm pretty sure this means he'll be practicing ZvZ very hardcore. Excellent. *sigh* and this is why GOM gives out seeds unfair to everyone else in Korea working very hard to even qualify for GSL. Not rooting for any of them to fail like some people, but I certainly don't think they deserve to be there unless they actually qualify. Look at Nestea..no seed, fell out of GSL and got right back in through qualifiers. If you are good enough you will get there. Free seeds are a joke. | ||
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MauliSchaumi
Germany21 Posts
Imagine the group: Naniwa Stephano Grubby Huk | ||
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Kinerah
Norway6 Posts
Oh, wait... that's probably not the case. Must be Stephanos bad ZvZ... | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:06 Irre wrote: *sigh* and this is why GOM gives out seeds unfair to everyone else in Korea working very hard to even qualify for GSL. Not rooting for any of them to fail like some people, but I certainly don't think they deserve to be there unless they actually qualify. Look at Nestea..no seed, fell out of GSL and got right back in through qualifiers. If you are good enough you will get there. Free seeds are a joke. Nestea lives in Seoul, he can just drive to Code B. It's much more costly to book a flight to Korea to attend to Code B. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
tbh though GSL isn't really the sort of thing I would have expected from him, I thought he was in it for the money, foreign tournaments would make more sense. It could be that EG are paying him to go to make it worth his while? | ||
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AimlessAmoeba
Canada704 Posts
On December 28 2012 19:57 X3GoldDot wrote: yeah honestly with his form recently thinking he will go out in ro32 unless he gets a really easy group or he just gets out of his slump again What slump? He almost won Homestory.. | ||
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StreetWise
United States594 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:13 Targe wrote: I'm looking forward to see how his skill actually shapes up so his fanboys can't keep saying: "If he were to go to GSL he would kill everybody ezpz!" tbh though GSL isn't really the sort of thing I would have expected from him, I thought he was in it for the money, foreign tournaments would make more sense. It could be that EG are paying him to go to make it worth his while? Since he accepted salary from EG, that is all that would be required for them to ask him to go. He is now an employee of EG and has to do what they ask or risk violating his contract. So in short yes, he is being paid to go in form of his salary. | ||
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The_Unseen
France1923 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:10 Kinerah wrote: Stephano bad ZvZ? Yes, maybe. But maybe consider he have lost to snute in two of the tournaments, and maybe it's just Snute who have sick ZvZ? Oh, wait... that's probably not the case. Must be Stephanos bad ZvZ... I mean, Snute did 4-0 Symbol, so yeah, Steph might not be so bad afterall (I think I remember 2-3 vs Snute? not so bad then :D) | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:05 Solarsail wrote: Hope the Koreans take HIM seriously or they'll get rolled worse than GSL WC. You mean when he didn't advance from the group stage? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_Blizzard_Cup It must be that I'm confused on what tournament we're talking about, because in this one, Stephano didn't do well. He got second to last in his group. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the same in Code S, but we'll see. | ||
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MythZero
Korea (South)102 Posts
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onPHYRE
Bulgaria923 Posts
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Koshi
Belgium38799 Posts
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Opera
France469 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:20 Nuclease wrote: You mean when he didn't advance from the group stage? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_Blizzard_Cup It must be that I'm confused on what tournament we're talking about, because in this one, Stephano didn't do well. He got second to last in his group. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the same in Code S, but we'll see. I think he means when Stephano beat 4 GSL champions in a row (2 ZvZs also) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_GSL_World_Championship#Round_2 | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:20 Nuclease wrote: You mean when he didn't advance from the group stage? http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2011_GSL_Blizzard_Cup It must be that I'm confused on what tournament we're talking about, because in this one, Stephano didn't do well. He got second to last in his group. I wouldn't be surprised to see more of the same in Code S, but we'll see. This one :  2012 GSL World Championship | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
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29 fps
United States5724 Posts
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
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StarStruck
25339 Posts
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:13 Targe wrote: I'm looking forward to see how his skill actually shapes up so his fanboys can't keep saying: "If he were to go to GSL he would kill everybody ezpz!" tbh though GSL isn't really the sort of thing I would have expected from him, I thought he was in it for the money, foreign tournaments would make more sense. It could be that EG are paying him to go to make it worth his while? I'm pretty sure no one said that and we've of course seen him play a bunch of Code S caliber players over the past year so we know he's on their level (except his zvz is still generally shit). If he can avoid a group with Taeja, Life, Leenock, Hyun or Sniper in it I like his chances to advance. Also when Stephano focuses he's definitely one of the best zergs in the world. | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:31 The_Darkness wrote: Although I watch GSL all of the time, I always forget how group selection works. How are groups determined? Will Sniper get the first pick? I'm hoping for Stephano's sake that he can avoid getting picked by a zerg but I highly doubt any Protosses or Terrans want to face him. I believe that for the first group stage, only the finalists of the previous GSL can choose an opponent and then it works given the seeds. It's the second group stage selection which is interesting with 1st seed choosing 2nd seed, who choose 3rd who choose 4th. | ||
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deekox
Poland19 Posts
But good luck - he is probably best of foreigners | ||
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
Ah. Well, the WC team league still doesn't really apply to a tournament like this. First of all, no matter how well Stephano did, he still lost, along with the rest of the foreign team. So while he may have had a good run, he still doesn't stack up into the top of Code S. Moreover, I don't think that the WC can be indicative to much more than the first round of Code S. Why? Because in the WC, the players were preparing a LOT less for specific match ups and they took the tournament less seriously. Stephano has said before that he's not as good at Code S format tournaments, and if you listen to interviews with people like Tastosis, they will say that the Code S format is nothing like MLG, LSC, etc. (AKA all the tournaments Stephano does well in.) | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:25 Opera wrote: I think he means when Stephano beat 4 GSL champions in a row (2 ZvZs also) http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_GSL_World_Championship#Round_2 Don't forget that is a Bo1 without preparation. | ||
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Eggi
478 Posts
If he can get past top 8 then he has a good chance to win the whole thing. | ||
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Lukeeze[zR]
Switzerland6838 Posts
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:07 MauliSchaumi wrote: Naniwa will come too. So maybe Naniwa,Huk,Grubby and Stephano in GSL? Would be awesome! Imagine the group: Naniwa Stephano Grubby Huk That would be one of the worst groups in Code S... There is no way to justify that all four of those guys get into Code S together at the moment. Even if they were at one point, no one but Stephano (and that's arguable) is Code S caliber right now. | ||
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Aserrin
Uruguay231 Posts
I wonder how he'll do when he prepares for his opponents for days and vice-versa. Even moreso with the fungal 'nerf'. | ||
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Atrbyg
United States513 Posts
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Nuclease
United States1049 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:38 SoOJuuu wrote: top 8 easily. If he can get past top 8 then he has a good chance to win the whole thing. I don't think you know Code S very well. Past the top 8 is where Stephano stands the least chance, even by his own words, because it requires the most individual and tactical preparation. He's a great player, but the further he gets the harder it will be for him, simply due to format (not even to mention the amazing players that will be up there with him). | ||
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Master of DalK
Canada1797 Posts
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Mackus
England1681 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:31 The_Darkness wrote: Although I watch GSL all of the time, I always forget how group selection works. How are groups determined? Will Sniper get the first pick? I'm hoping for Stephano's sake that he can avoid getting picked by a zerg but I highly doubt any Protosses or Terrans want to face him. Sniper and Hyun get picks out of the bottom tier players. By bottom tier it's done by GSL points since it will be Stephano's debut in the GOM studios he will have 0 points therefore be part of the pool of players available to pick from. | ||
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gedatsu
1286 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:06 Irre wrote: *sigh* and this is why GOM gives out seeds unfair to everyone else in Korea working very hard to even qualify for GSL. Not rooting for any of them to fail like some people, but I certainly don't think they deserve to be there unless they actually qualify. Look at Nestea..no seed, fell out of GSL and got right back in through qualifiers. If you are good enough you will get there. Free seeds are a joke. I guess it's time to go over this shit again. To qualify for the gsl, a Korean player must: 1 be really good at starcraft. 2 take the bus. To qualify for the gsl, a foreign player must: 1 fly to Korea 2 find a place to sleep for a month 3 live in a culture they don't know, that speaks a language they don't understand, and where nobody of their normal social network is. 4 battle jet lag, strange food customs and 5 be really good at starcraft. 6 take the bus. Not to mention, a Korean player that fails qualifications can easily try again next time. A foreign player might have problems with visa, rent, culture or home sickness. Even disregarding the business aspect for gom, it still makes tons of sense to give invites to foreigners. | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Serinox
Germany5224 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:31 The_Darkness wrote: Although I watch GSL all of the time, I always forget how group selection works. How are groups determined? Will Sniper get the first pick? I'm hoping for Stephano's sake that he can avoid getting picked by a zerg but I highly doubt any Protosses or Terrans want to face him. This is how it is done - For Code S Ro32, players are divided into 4 tiers (Scroll down for tier list) * Tier 1: The Top 8 of GSL Season 4 * Tier 2: 2012 GSL Point Ranking 1-8 * Tier 3: 2012 GSL Point Ranking 9-16 * Tier 4: 2012 GSL Point Ranking 17-24 - After this procedure, 8 groups of 4 are formed * First, the previous season’s champion select s a player from Tier 4 for his group * After that, the previous season’s runner-up will select a player from Tier 4 for his group * The remaining players will be randomly distributed among the groups * After this procedure we will have 8 groups of 4 players, each from a different tier - Match order for each group (All matches Bo3) * Match1: Tier 1 vs Tier 4 * Match2: Tier 2 vs Tier 3 * Match3: M1 Winner vs M2 Winner -> Winner advances to Ro16 * Match4: M1 Loser vs M2 Loser -> Loser drops to Code A * Match5: M3 Loser vs M4 Winner -> Winner advances to Ro16, loser drops to Code A Example - 2012 GSL Season 5 Code S: Tier Ranking: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.net/userimg/0001/0711/69711.jpg) And with that the groups ended like this: + Show Spoiler + Champion Life chose BaBy Runner-Up Mvp chose Bbyong ![[image loading]](http://img.gomtv.net/userimg/0000/0712/69712.jpg) Note: the groups are out of order because of schedule issues. Normally the champion is in Group A and the runner-up in Group B. | ||
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WhX
Germany778 Posts
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stickyhands
187 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:39 Nuclease wrote: That would be one of the worst groups in Code S... There is no way to justify that all four of those guys get into Code S together at the moment. Even if they were at one point, no one but Stephano (and that's arguable) is Code S caliber right now. Stephano might be code S material, but he said in several interviews that he dislike the format of that competition (training and studying one particular opponent). So im looking forward to see how he can perform. Naniwa made a good code S run in the past, is he now in a slump? Grubby is very dedicated, hard working and have a perfect mindset he can accomplish miracles sometimes even if i cant imagine him beating people like mvp (way too solid) or drg/life (way too zerg :D) Huk: i dont fucking know what is his level right now | ||
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NGF
Finland30 Posts
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Mystes
Germany42 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:38 SoOJuuu wrote: top 8 easily. If he can get past top 8 then he has a good chance to win the whole thing. he is past his prime no doubt he's still one of the best foreigners but 'top 8 easily' ? no way | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:47 Mackus wrote: Sniper and Hyun get picks out of the bottom tier players. By bottom tier it's done by GSL points since it will be Stephano's debut in the GOM studios he will have 0 points therefore be part of the pool of players available to pick from. Thanks. I'd say there's a greater than 50% chance he's going to get picked although if I were them I'd be a little wary of picking Stephano, since everyone knows he's capable of putting on great performances in pressure situations, even if his zvz is not up to par with his other matchups. They could simply opt for a weak Terran or Protoss player if one's available. Edit: Also thanks to the above poster who made a detailed post regarding the selection rules in response to my question. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10341 Posts
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Random_Guy09
Canada1010 Posts
On December 28 2012 21:25 DarkLordOlli wrote: Well... GSL is different. They'll have time to analyze him and pick him apart. Also note that none of the above mentioned were performing very well when Stephano beat them. MKP is notoriously weak vs zerg atm, MMA sadly is notoriously bad in general atm and Mvp was never known to be an online beast. Mvp is the kind of player who will beat Stephano the hardest in the GSL. Exactly this. When koreans prep for GSL they take the players usual known builds and get their practice partner run that build for a lot of games until they find every possible timing they can exploit with what build and with Stephano its just even easier.. 1 style player just makes it so much easier than other GSL players that can pop out multiple styles of play if they get figured out during a game. Which is why people are saying Stephano will get rolled. He plays the same style every game and the koreans are going to rip that style completely apart and what will Stephano be left with? It's why people (including myself) are so sceptical when people say "Stephano best zerg in the world" when he has no business having that title when he hasn't stepped into GSL for a full season to prove it. Different preparation is needed when playing in GSL from a normal foreign tournament. Beating a Code S player means really nothing until you step into their playground and go head to head with them and having a completely fair playing field of each player getting time to set up a plan instead of foreign tournaments where your just punching through wall after wall and being able to win with 1 style. Bye bye Stephano I hope you get a group of death to really see if you belong as a "best player" of any region. | ||
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Thurken
961 Posts
The problem is his ZvZ and the fact that many zergs are in code S. If he went there 6 month ago i'd say he had good chances, now it's gonna depend on bracket luck. Nevermind, even if it's too late, it's about time our foreign hero enters the GSL arena I'm buying a ticket this season | ||
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FeUerFlieGe
United States1193 Posts
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Meadowlark
United States349 Posts
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NeutralDepot
80 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:10 Kinerah wrote: Stephano bad ZvZ? Yes, maybe. But maybe consider he have lost to snute in two of the tournaments, and maybe it's just Snute who have sick ZvZ? Oh, wait... that's probably not the case. Must be Stephanos bad ZvZ... Yes, sure. His ZvZ is outstanding. That's why he has lost multiple ZvZs to Idra, Scarlett, Dimaga, Vortix, Hyun and Xlord. | ||
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
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zul
Germany5427 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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may0nnaise
United States40 Posts
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Provok
France159 Posts
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Archen
United States79 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:20 NoGasfOu wrote: That sucks. I thought GSL is the one of the only true competition leagues. If they keep inviting players to increase subscription, I'm going to go the opposite and not subscribing from now on. From Stephano's tournament runs and all, he is definitely one of the best players in the world. And you're complaining about how GSL is inviting only top tier players to compete in Code S? Huh. Stephano 2-0s MMA and MKP in recent tournament. He almost reverse all killed in the foreigners vs korean tournament of champions during IPL5. Oh ya hes also won a ton of major tournaments. | ||
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MetalPanda
Canada1152 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:13 NeutralDepot wrote: Yes, sure. His ZvZ is outstanding. That's why he has lost multiple ZvZs to Idra, Scarlett, Dimaga, Vortix, Hyun and Xlord. That's not exactly fair, those are the world's top ZvZ players right now outside of Korea (okay, Dimaga was a weak loss), and they are good against Koreans as well. Stephano had great ZvZ at WCS Europe and at GSL World Championships. It's much less good these days, but it's just a slight slump. Stephano did manage to take 2 games off of Snute, and they were the only games Snute lost. Snute crushed Symbol 6-0 total in the tournament and Symbol crushed Xlord 3-0. Xlord also beat Bly 4-0 and Stephano 5-2. Result, I think Snute has really sick ZvZ and Stephano just has up & downs, maybe relying on the randomness of ZvZ too much, I'm not so sure. | ||
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Kilby
Finland1069 Posts
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MetalPanda
Canada1152 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:20 NoGasfOu wrote: That sucks. I thought GSL is the one of the only true competition leagues. If they keep inviting players to increase subscription, I'm going to go the opposite and not subscribing from now on. Lol, Stephano has the skill, more than any foreigner, to win GSL. He's one of the best zergs in the world, definitely, only behind a few Korean zergs (Leenock, Life, DRG, Hyun, maybe Curious and Sniper (don't know much about the KeSPA zergs though) ). It'll just depend on how well he adapts to the format, the brackets and his ZvZ. | ||
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Kergy
Peru2011 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:34 Archen wrote: From Stephano's tournament runs and all, he is definitely one of the best players in the world. And you're complaining about how GSL is inviting only top tier players to compete in Code S? Huh. Stephano 2-0s MMA and MKP in recent tournament. He almost reverse all killed in the foreigners vs korean tournament of champions during IPL5. Oh ya hes also won a ton of major tournaments. But he didn't actually qualify for Code S the way it should be done, he got there through a marketing plot. It'll be fun to see him in GSL nevertheless and I'll root HARD for whoever plays against him | ||
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Laneir
United States1160 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
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bokchoi
Korea (South)9498 Posts
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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Nachtwind
Germany1130 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:06 Random_Guy09 wrote: Exactly this. When koreans prep for GSL they take the players usual known builds and get their practice partner run that build for a lot of games until they find every possible timing they can exploit with what build and with Stephano its just even easier.. 1 style player just makes it so much easier than other GSL players that can pop out multiple styles of play if they get figured out during a game. Which is why people are saying Stephano will get rolled. He plays the same style every game and the koreans are going to rip that style completely apart and what will Stephano be left with? It's why people (including myself) are so sceptical when people say "Stephano best zerg in the world" when he has no business having that title when he hasn't stepped into GSL for a full season to prove it. Different preparation is needed when playing in GSL from a normal foreign tournament. Beating a Code S player means really nothing until you step into their playground and go head to head with them and having a completely fair playing field of each player getting time to set up a plan instead of foreign tournaments where your just punching through wall after wall and being able to win with 1 style. Bye bye Stephano I hope you get a group of death to really see if you belong as a "best player" of any region. Did i miss something or since when is Stephano considered to be a "1 Style Player"? | ||
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Akamu
United States309 Posts
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Mysticesper
United States1183 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:50 Nachtwind wrote: Did i miss something or since when is Stephano considered to be a "1 Style Player"? I wouldn't call him that, but there are times where it sure feels like it. | ||
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dsousa
United States1363 Posts
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ScienceNotBusiness
United States91 Posts
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Holdenintherye
Canada1441 Posts
GL Stephano!~~ | ||
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cutler
Germany609 Posts
anyway...GL...i dont think he will win a single match. | ||
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Dr.Sin
Canada1126 Posts
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Chronos.
United States805 Posts
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tubs
764 Posts
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SChlafmann
France725 Posts
Otherwise, this move is useless. | ||
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FlaminGinjaNinja
United Kingdom879 Posts
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zephiK
United States372 Posts
Was actually surprised Stephano didn't accept the seed (or get a spot) in the last GSL Code S as the finals were taken place at IPL5. Hope Stephano wins it all and calls Code [S]tephano As far as Stephano's ZvZ, Jaedong's ZvZ seems pretty beastly and is a big fan of Stephano's gameplay so I'm assuming the two will work together in EG-TL's "The Lab." | ||
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
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zephiK
United States372 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:10 hansonslee wrote: Although practically, Stephano might not go far because he isn't as diligent as most of the pros. While a lot of the opponents in the group will study him like no-tomorrow, he might not take it as seriously (although it might change, now EG has a coach). Also, Stephano has been slumping lately. But then again, this is Stephano who is full of surprises. How exactly is Stephano slumping? the past couple of tournaments, he only lost to ZvZ which prevented him winning the tournament. The matchup that he's not really known for, his ZvT and ZvP is up there though. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
When Stephano wins, best player ever, GSL ezpz. | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:48 bokchoi wrote: Stephanos gonna have a tough schedule with PL and Code S. We all should curb expectations. It will be awesome to see him though. He has also Iron Squid on his schedule. | ||
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Going4Gold
United Kingdom67 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:12 Godwrath wrote: When Stephano loses. Jetlag, wrist, jinx, slump. When Stephano wins, best player ever, GSL ezpz. When Stephano loses : "Look, he's overrated, koreans will crush him in GSL." When Stephano wins : "Koreans were not prepared" | ||
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Mackus
England1681 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:59 The_Darkness wrote: Thanks. I'd say there's a greater than 50% chance he's going to get picked although if I were them I'd be a little wary of picking Stephano, since everyone knows he's capable of putting on great performances in pressure situations, even if his zvz is not up to par with his other matchups. They could simply opt for a weak Terran or Protoss player if one's available. Edit: Also thanks to the above poster who made a detailed post regarding the selection rules in response to my question. It would be a wise move for Hyun to pick Stephano but at the same time HuK may magically progress from Up & Downs and turn into cannon fodder for either of the 2 picks | ||
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jackslater
Russian Federation604 Posts
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udgnim
United States8024 Posts
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starslayer
United States696 Posts
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Nine Gates
Finland198 Posts
On December 29 2012 01:51 Mysticesper wrote: I wouldn't call him that, but there are times where it sure feels like it. What style? "Who said idra weak" hydralisk push? | ||
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sc14s
United States5052 Posts
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Sea_aeS
1025 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:58 Assirra wrote: If he wins one match people will hail him as the best player of the world instantly. If he loses people will use the no preparation and playing Proleague at the same as excuse. Indeed, the live report thread will be a mess. I dont agree at all !!! Both of you will make it rly great !!! xD | ||
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Sea_Food
Finland1612 Posts
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shizaep
Canada2920 Posts
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hansonslee
United States2027 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:12 zephiK wrote: How exactly is Stephano slumping? the past couple of tournaments, he only lost to ZvZ which prevented him winning the tournament. The matchup that he's not really known for, his ZvT and ZvP is up there though. Stephano isn't bad, but he's no longer as dominant as he used to be. He lost against Mana, who dreads the PvZ, an unknown protoss fraer, etc. In the most conservative term, I would say Stephano is slumping. But like I said, this is Stephano who can pull-off fun comebacks. | ||
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Waxangel
United States33389 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:37 Sea_Food wrote: Isnt this like the 5th time this gets announced? Stephano going to korea for code S? no, never confirmed | ||
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a3den
704 Posts
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NKB
United Kingdom608 Posts
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Firlefanz
Germany245 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:41 hansonslee wrote: Stephano isn't bad, but he's no longer as dominant as he used to be. He lost against Mana, who dreads the PvZ, an unknown protoss fraer, etc. In the most conservative term, I would say Stephano is slumping. But like I said, this is Stephano who can pull-off fun comebacks. What?! | ||
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NVRLand
Sweden203 Posts
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
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imJealous
United States1382 Posts
Hope he does well, but the koreans are extremely good at preparing for a specific opponent so I won't be surprised if he doesn't do as well as we expect in this type of format. | ||
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
Yeah I felt the same thing while reading this. The unknown fraer and his ukrainian bro the unknown Bly. | ||
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Valikyr
Sweden2653 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:48 NVRLand wrote: Bet NaNiwa is quite nervous :p Quite sure that he wants to be the first foreigner to win GSL (if it's possible for a foreigner) and Stephano is probably the only one who can challenge him for that. I hope Stephano does good but I don't think this is his format. I'm sad to see HuK being in up-and-downs instead of Nani :/ | ||
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Havik_
United States5585 Posts
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WightyCity
Canada887 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
(i know... but a man can dream) | ||
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totally_spy
France104 Posts
Go own some ESF/Kespa Stephano =) | ||
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
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Zerg.Zilla
Hungary5029 Posts
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B1itZZ
United Kingdom70 Posts
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garlicface
Canada4196 Posts
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NoGasfOu
United States1117 Posts
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Popkiller
3415 Posts
On December 29 2012 02:55 WightyCity wrote: Everyone is so good in code S.The fact is: he has as much chance as anyone to win. (1/32) ...yeah... if the winner were decided by drawing a number, sure... | ||
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CursOr
United States6335 Posts
Try not to get fucking owned! GL HF | ||
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Midday
Canada59 Posts
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derpface
Sweden925 Posts
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k3n705
Canada134 Posts
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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EvanC
Canada130 Posts
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RiceAgainst
United States1849 Posts
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a3den
704 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:11 derpface wrote: Lets hope he has something other than massinfestors in his sleeve Did you see him play recently ? He's pretty much the polar opposite of Leenock in terms of infestor use right now. | ||
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latan
740 Posts
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Boucot
France15997 Posts
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fusefuse
Estonia4644 Posts
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TsGBruzze
Sweden1190 Posts
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RanDomFox
United States84 Posts
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:29 RanDomFox wrote: today code S, tomorrow code B Yup. He's not going to get far. | ||
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On December 29 2012 00:34 The_Darkness wrote: I'm pretty sure no one said that and we've of course seen him play a bunch of Code S caliber players over the past year so we know he's on their level (except his zvz is still generally shit). If he can avoid a group with Taeja, Life, Leenock, Hyun or Sniper in it I like his chances to advance. Also when Stephano focuses he's definitely one of the best zergs in the world. I've seen people saying he would easily win GSL if he went, I'm not saying he can't (although I don't think he would, Ro8 I think would be very impressive from him), I'm saying that it will finally put an end to some of his fan's ridiculous chatter and we can finally place him properly amongst all the other players. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
If he doesn't stay motivated to play a lot, I don't think he has a good chance. | ||
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Madars
Latvia166 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:22 fusefuse wrote: time to get Stephano out of my antiteam x) No need. Teams are all reset after this round so more people can get involved. There will be a re-selection before Round 2. This "announcement" was pretty much a given when Geoff said on SotG that Stephano will be playing ProLeague Jan-Feb but that is ALL he is allowed to reveal. | ||
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fusefuse
Estonia4644 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:42 Dosey wrote: No need. Teams are all reset after this round so more people can get involved. There will be a re-selection before Round 2. WHAT where who link? distressful | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
R1CH has a couple posts in the FPL thread letting us know. A lot of people missed the sign up deadline, so they are resetting everything to give more people a chance to get involved. | ||
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
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The KY
United Kingdom6252 Posts
I would also like a linked confirmation of this. | ||
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
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Benjamin99
4176 Posts
Just gonna save this for future reference so I can laugh at it later | ||
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
EG Fighting! Stephano and Jaedong :D | ||
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
As to the Grubby/HuK seeds, I am more excited to see Grubby play than huk. I don't know that either will make it through the up and downs, as it has been some time since huk has shown top form. Grubby seems to be steadily improving his standing among top players, and for that reason I am happy to see him get the chance. In all fairness, though, Grubby got the harder group. | ||
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MarcusWC
Canada55 Posts
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zelevin
United States261 Posts
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johanes
Czech Republic2227 Posts
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Trevoc
United States145 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:52 The KY wrote: I would also like a linked confirmation of this. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=386580¤tpage=67 There ya go. | ||
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Glenn313
United States475 Posts
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
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decado90
United States480 Posts
There are way too many good players in Korea that work their asses off and compete in the qualifiers to hand out Code S seeds to foreigners. | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:54 Alryk wrote: Mr. Chae is probably breaking out the champagne a bit earlier than normal ^^ No kidding haha -- every second tweet from that guy is about Stephano | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
we'll see. Even being finalist would be the best any foreigner did. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10126 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:57 Benjamin99 wrote: Just gonna save this for future reference so I can laugh at it later I will save this one. | ||
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iyasq8
113 Posts
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:29 RanDomFox wrote: today code S, tomorrow code B Yea, he really has no shot in Code S, a bit silly to give a welfare seed to any foreigner tbh. Way too many good Zergs, then players like Parting and Creator that will simply just make him look silly. He can beat the Terrans, any foreigner Zerg has a shot against Korean T, but players like Ryung, Baby, Polt, Bogus, Gumiho given a week+ to prepare for a guy that will be the worst Zerg in Code S? This will just be your standard foreigner thrashing into Code B, and then again we will all wonder why the hell Gom gave out a seed. | ||
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Nazeron
Canada1046 Posts
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
On December 29 2012 03:33 Targe wrote: I've seen people saying he would easily win GSL if he went, I'm not saying he can't (although I don't think he would, Ro8 I think would be very impressive from him), I'm saying that it will finally put an end to some of his fan's ridiculous chatter and we can finally place him properly amongst all the other players. I'm not certain whether Stephano's Liquipedia page is accurate to his results, but let's take a look at them: Championships: IPL 3(Quality World Field, 32 person event, 8 qualified online, 8 seeded, 16 qualified on-site) Qualified through online qualifier ESWC 2011(48 players, played in his home country, two koreans) NASL Season 3(Quality World Field, played over a long period of time) Qualified unknown WCS Europe(Regional Tournament, 32 players, all qualifier) 2nd-4th ESWC 2012 3rd(Regional, home field advantage) DH Summer 2012 Ro4 DH Assembly Summer 2011 3rd DH Assembly Winter 2012 2nd MLG Spring Arena 2 2012 3rd(32 players, mixed invited/qualified) Homestory Cup VI 4th(32 players, mixed invite/qualified) Stephano has, with two exceptions(NASL3 and IPL3), not faced and beaten or faced and finished top 4 against quality world fields. Even stranger, His ESWC win in 2011 came right on the heels of his IPL3 win. I would chalk that one up to really tremendous form at a particular point in time in 2011. His NASL run is to be applauded, but the WCS win in Europe is a regional victory. The finishes that are top 4 but not victorious tell a similar tale. Stephano does really well when he is close to home, at tournaments against (mostly) European fields. Even the NASL has significant numbers of Non-Koreans, with 7 out of the top 16 in Season 3 being Non-Korean. So if he gets the opportunity to go to Korea and participate in Code S, it would be a huge test for him. Even a round of 8 here would be a remarkable achievement, because he does not have many against fields larger than 32 players(I'm aware of the fact that code S is a 32 player event, but when you consider the interaction between Code A and Code S, I feel 64 is more representative of the size of the field for comparison purposes.) I don't know that we can say that Stephano is one of the best Zergs in the world currently, even though for a few months in 2011 he seemed unstoppable. I do know that he is one of the scariest Zerg players who is not a Korean, and that he is endlessly entertaining to watch. He may be tested at his ZvZ matchup, a matchup that for the current moment is really defining who the best zergs in the world are. Life/Sniper/Leenock are in Code S waiting, and I will be watching. Can Stephano dethrone those three Zergs? Is he truly one of the best in the world, and can he defeat a lineup of Koreans who spend all their time playing the Korean ladder instead of traveling to events? It is certain from his results that he cannot be counted out, but I would consider it a shock if he was to make it to a Round of 8. | ||
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LOLItsRyann
England551 Posts
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vult
United States9400 Posts
Also, good luck to HuK and Grubby in the Up/Downs! Hopefully they both get through! | ||
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Savko
Canada45 Posts
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DreamTheaterFan
Canada52 Posts
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Zane
Romania3916 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:00 Savko wrote: I don't find Stephano's play particularly entertaining to watch. Would much rather have seen Nani back for another season. That aside, as a foreigner in code S, I wish him all the best! I also find his style rather boring, but at least he'll make the LR threads more entertaining, win or lose. | ||
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Thurken
961 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:04 DreamTheaterFan wrote: He isn't going to get past round of 32: most exposed playing style and personnality, huge bank of replays available to cheese/pre out-build him and koreans seem to have a knack at destroying good foreigners out of the GSL. If he has the bracket draw that Naniwa had during his two ro8 finishes (Genius, Keen, TheSTC, Creator, Puzzle, Ryung, Virus), he'll most likely pass the groupstages but the chance of this happening again is near 0% | ||
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Attunga
Australia41 Posts
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Jaaaaasper
United States10225 Posts
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SolarJto
United States260 Posts
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BlackPride
United States186 Posts
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Torrathyr
Canada95 Posts
On December 28 2012 20:05 Solarsail wrote: Hope the Koreans take HIM seriously or they'll get rolled worse than GSL WC. I don't think there will be any danger of that, he is probably one of the most studied players in the game, playing the most studied race (especially recently). I just hope that Stephano actually practices and prepares for his opponents. | ||
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stjartrov
Sweden81 Posts
On December 29 2012 04:30 shid0x wrote: If he actually trains seriously for this he has the potential to take it all. we'll see. Even being finalist would be the best any foreigner did. You make it sound like reaching a Code S final isn't that big of a deal. I can't believe how many there are who have such distorted views of how good Stephano actually is. I hope he can do well, but I predict he will go out 0-2 or 1-2 in Ro32. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
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RaelSan
Belgium223 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:29 stjartrov wrote: You make it sound like reaching a Code S final isn't that big of a deal. I can't believe how many there are who have such distorted views of how good Stephano actually is. I hope he can do well, but I predict he will go out 0-2 or 1-2 in Ro32. Not having your view is having distorted views, great ! | ||
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SHOOG
United States1639 Posts
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stjartrov
Sweden81 Posts
On December 29 2012 04:30 shid0x wrote: Not having your view is having distorted views, great ! So you agree that anything but a 1st place is practically a disappointment? There's being realistic and there's being a complete fanboy. Edit: I realise I am a party pooper, so let's not discuss this further! Gl hf Stephano! | ||
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Wingblade
United States1806 Posts
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Iron_
United States389 Posts
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jdobrev
Bulgaria162 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:38 Wingblade wrote: Prediction: just to troll both haters who think hell flop in ro32, and fanboys who say he wins it all, Stephano finishes 2nd in both group stages then loses pretty handily in ro8. Just enough to say he is Code S caliber, but not enough to go crazy about how great, or how overrated he might be. This would be a great achievement considering how hard next Code S is going to be. | ||
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OhThatDang
United States4685 Posts
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TheOldRookie
France2 Posts
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:41 jdobrev wrote: This would be a great achievement considering how hard next Code S is going to be. Yep, hardest Code S in the history of the league, and it keeps getting harder each subsequent season, but Gom decides to ruin it with a welfare foreign seeds. I guess none of the ESF and Kespa players training 12+ hours a day and fighting through the qualifiers deserve the spot. Apparently sifting through gutter at foreign tournaments makes you more deserving than making it through the hardest qualifiers on the planet that no foreigner has EVER made it through. Hopefully all foreigners are knocked to Code B next season, and this farce can be over once and for all. | ||
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:48 decado90 wrote: Yep, hardest Code S in the history of the league, and it keeps getting harder each subsequent season, but Gom decides to ruin it with a welfare foreign seeds. I guess none of the ESF and Kespa players training 12+ hours a day and fighting through the qualifiers deserve the spot. Apparently sifting through gutter at foreign tournaments makes you more deserving than making it through the hardest qualifiers on the planet that no foreigner has EVER made it through. Hopefully all foreigners are knocked to Code B next season, and this farce can be over once and for all. Hey there were I believe 4 foreigners who made it through the qualifiers for GSL. Idra (season 1, 2 and 3) and I believe Jinro (season 3), Artosis (season 1 iirc), redhaired terran (can't remember his name). | ||
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Nosferatos
Norway783 Posts
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SneX
Sweden377 Posts
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L3g3nd_
New Zealand10461 Posts
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HappyTimePANDA
United States167 Posts
Will be interesting just hope he doesn't have z v z at first. | ||
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Incomplet
United Kingdom1419 Posts
RO32 is a simple matter of luck as only Sniper and Hyun can pick and they will more than likely pick Protoss as ZvP is both of their best matchups. RO16 is where all the mind-games start and this can either go terribly wrong or terribly right for Stephano depending on how the group selection goes. RO8 onwards is where shit gets real and your single opponent has one whole week to study you and the weak are truly separated from the strong. In the previous rounds, his 3 opponents had to split their time to study each other, where as from RO8 onwards, his opponent will be studying solely him. This is not Stephano's forte and will be the eventual downfall if he does make it this far. Regardless, RO8 is still a very nice accomplishment for a foreigner, or even for a Korean royal-roader, let alone foreign one. TLDR: Expect pleasant surprises if he gets a good group, but dont put money on him taking a championship. | ||
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:51 blade55555 wrote: Hey there were I believe 4 foreigners who made it through the qualifiers for GSL. Idra (season 1, 2 and 3) and I believe Jinro (season 3), Artosis (season 1 iirc), redhaired terran (can't remember his name). Those were the open season qualifiers. Since Code S was formed, no foreigner has ever made it through the Code A qualifiers. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:12 iamho wrote: Afirmative action for the white guy. Not that I blame GSL, nowadays it seems like foreigners will only watch other foreigners. gotta get those eyeballs. EG should just share some of their dirty money and get a EG-slot reserved. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:51 blade55555 wrote: Hey there were I believe 4 foreigners who made it through the qualifiers for GSL. Idra (season 1, 2 and 3) and I believe Jinro (season 3), Artosis (season 1 iirc), redhaired terran (can't remember his name). TorcH | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On December 29 2012 05:48 decado90 wrote: Yep, hardest Code S in the history of the league, and it keeps getting harder each subsequent season, but Gom decides to ruin it with a welfare foreign seeds. I guess none of the ESF and Kespa players training 12+ hours a day and fighting through the qualifiers deserve the spot. Apparently sifting through gutter at foreign tournaments makes you more deserving than making it through the hardest qualifiers on the planet that no foreigner has EVER made it through. Hopefully all foreigners are knocked to Code B next season, and this farce can be over once and for all. I dunno, the Kespa and ESF players know that thanks to their training they easily get a top 8 finish at every major white tournament, so that is a huge financial reward. If that means giving white people hope that they can compete in GSL then that seems like a small price to pay. Especially when they dont even have to give the best white guy the seat, just the most popular at the moment. (Remember when Idra got a Code S seat and lost every game in both Code S and A? Did anyone care? No, because they pulled in an extra 5-7k viewers) | ||
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MyFirstProbe
Netherlands294 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:10 decado90 wrote: Those were the open season qualifiers. Since Code S was formed, no foreigner has ever made it through the Code A qualifiers. In the open seasons there were als ret, tlo, loner, sen making it through. | ||
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Thurken
961 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:31 MyFirstProbe wrote: In the open seasons there were als ret, tlo, loner, sen making it through. The difficulty difference to qualify to code S during the open seasons and now is enormous | ||
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Lovedoll
Japan540 Posts
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SweetNJoshSauce
United States468 Posts
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SeraKuDA
Canada343 Posts
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Steel
Japan2283 Posts
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
ret and TLO also made it into the open seasons also through those qualifiers but it is true that no foreigner has made it through the qualifiers once Code A/S started. TLO, Deathangel, Huk, and Sase have all been close I'm interested to see how Stephano will do in Code S finally. I'm worried about the posts that will come from it regardless of result | ||
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hangene92
Canada258 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:31 MyFirstProbe wrote: In the open seasons there were als ret, tlo, loner, sen making it through. Not sure about tlo or loner but didn't ret get like the first in the batch of seeds? Together with huk if i recall and a couple others. | ||
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Shellshock
United States97276 Posts
On December 29 2012 07:36 Assirra wrote: Not sure about tlo or loner but didn't ret get like the first in the batch of seeds? Together with huk if i recall and a couple others. He's talking about open seasons. ret played in open season 3 and 2-0d Value aka Cyrano in round 1 before losing to TheBest in round 2 TLO actually beat Losira 2-0 in Open Season 1 in the tournament and also qualified for open season 2 losing to Sangho in round 1 all the players he named did make it into at least 1 open season Ret also earned his Code A spot through tiebreakers for code a from open season performance. He wasn't a seed in the same sense as the other players that got put in code a that season. he earned his spot from the opens | ||
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Boblhead
United States2577 Posts
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Cattlecruiser
United States340 Posts
He should make a serious run. I haven't been so excited to see a foreigner play in a very long time. I hope EG-TL lets him take GSL more seriously than Proleague. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they used him every game. | ||
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:10 decado90 wrote: Those were the open season qualifiers. Since Code S was formed, no foreigner has ever made it through the Code A qualifiers. Or, to phrase it differently, "Very few foreigners live in Korea to even play for the Code A qualifiers". | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
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sM.Zik
Canada2547 Posts
On December 29 2012 07:53 Cattlecruiser wrote: Stephano is the only foreigner that has Code S seed worthy pedigree. He should make a serious run. I haven't been so excited to see a foreigner play in a very long time. I hope EG-TL lets him take GSL more seriously than Proleague. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they used him every game. SPL is only 2 games a week per players, he could do both and EG-TL won't need him all the time either. | ||
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mycro
Sweden1579 Posts
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mhael
United States102 Posts
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meltedigloo
6 Posts
(most probably) | ||
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Bakku
United States9 Posts
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doffe
Sweden636 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:18 Sub40APM wrote: I dunno, the Kespa and ESF players know that thanks to their training they easily get a top 8 finish at every major white tournament, so that is a huge financial reward. If that means giving white people hope that they can compete in GSL then that seems like a small price to pay. Especially when they dont even have to give the best white guy the seat, just the most popular at the moment. (Remember when Idra got a Code S seat and lost every game in both Code S and A? Did anyone care? No, because they pulled in an extra 5-7k viewers) Idd, GOM is a business and I honestly think they gain alot of viewers by seeding non Koreans. Its completly understandable. Is it fair? Not really no, hard to argue that it is but hey, its their call and I myself certinly get more exited about watching GSL with some underdog foreigners in it. And they have seeded KESPA players aswell. Jaedong got a code S seed and atleast one more. | ||
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unix04
United States89 Posts
and whoever mentioned scarlett, she'll get the viewers, but she's more of a korean pro sniper than someone who can string many consecutive sets against the best of the best. also, her ZvZ against koreans will be her downfall. she'll need some luck going against terran matchups, but given the recent trend, terrans have taken a step back | ||
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The_Darkness
United States910 Posts
On December 29 2012 06:12 iamho wrote: Afirmative action for the white guy. Not that I blame GSL, nowadays it seems like foreigners will only watch other foreigners. Last time they had affirmative action for KESPA players. Were you broken up about that too? | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On December 29 2012 09:16 unix04 wrote: foreigners have 1 or 2 seasons to get as far as they can before their play becomes more familiar and figured out. stephano could make a top 4 run or just drop off entirely in his first season, but if he sticks around for more seasons, he will eventually become Code S fodder and a code A competitor that's becoming increasingly stacked with up and coming BW veterans. and whoever mentioned scarlett, she'll get the viewers, but she's more of a korean pro sniper than someone who can string many consecutive sets against the best of the best. also, her ZvZ against koreans will be her downfall. she'll need some luck going against terran matchups, but given the recent trend, terrans have taken a step back Scarlett's ZvZ actually very good and can compete (not favored but not embarrassed either) with Koreans. Her ZvP is a much bigger problem though. | ||
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KookyMonster
United States311 Posts
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Kilby
Finland1069 Posts
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 29 2012 09:19 The_Darkness wrote: Last time they had affirmative action for KESPA players. Were you broken up about that too? Oh please. They dedicated their lives to SC1, playing 12+ hour days for years. Big difference between seeding the most influential players in esports history and foreigners. | ||
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MateShade
Australia736 Posts
wish they would stop giving such random seeds | ||
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AceHigh.
Poland64 Posts
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/2012_GSL_World_Championship#Round_2 | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On December 29 2012 09:59 MateShade wrote: I love HuK but he doesn't deserve this seed wish they would stop giving such random seedsIts not whether he deserves it or not, its about having a white guy there who also lives in Korea. Had Naniwa been a bit more business conscious then he or Thorzaine probably would be the guy getting the white seed. | ||
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ACrow
Germany6583 Posts
On December 29 2012 09:19 The_Darkness wrote: Last time they had affirmative action for KESPA players. Were you broken up about that too? I was, as I'm of the opinion (as a fan of the game) to only admit the most deserving players to Code S if you insist on having seeds at all(i'd actually prefer to get rid of the seeds altogether). Ironically, now I think that the Kespa players improved to a point at where they're worthy of seeds, they will hardly get any. Stephano at his best would have been able to compete in Code S, however his recent form is less than convincing. | ||
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Skwid1g
United States953 Posts
On December 29 2012 09:56 decado90 wrote: Oh please. They dedicated their lives to SC1, playing 12+ hour days for years. Big difference between seeding the most influential players in esports history and foreigners. Foreigners don't have a chance to qualify. It's not an online qualifier and it's ridiculously expensive to fly to and stay in Korea just to attempt to qualify for the lesser bracket of the two tournaments. If there were no seeds given out we'd basically never see a foreigner in the GSL even if they had the skill to compete. Seeds being given out is both fair and unfair, depending on how you look at it. | ||
Darkhorse
United States23455 Posts
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Deleted User 135096
3624 Posts
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PhoenixVoid
Canada32740 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
On December 29 2012 04:41 thrawn1020 wrote: I'm not certain whether Stephano's Liquipedia page is accurate to his results, but let's take a look at them: Championships: IPL 3(Quality World Field, 32 person event, 8 qualified online, 8 seeded, 16 qualified on-site) Qualified through online qualifier ESWC 2011(48 players, played in his home country, two koreans) NASL Season 3(Quality World Field, played over a long period of time) Qualified unknown WCS Europe(Regional Tournament, 32 players, all qualifier) 2nd-4th ESWC 2012 3rd(Regional, home field advantage) DH Summer 2012 Ro4 DH Assembly Summer 2011 3rd DH Assembly Winter 2012 2nd MLG Spring Arena 2 2012 3rd(32 players, mixed invited/qualified) Homestory Cup VI 4th(32 players, mixed invite/qualified) Stephano has, with two exceptions(NASL3 and IPL3), not faced and beaten or faced and finished top 4 against quality world fields. Even stranger, His ESWC win in 2011 came right on the heels of his IPL3 win. I would chalk that one up to really tremendous form at a particular point in time in 2011. His NASL run is to be applauded, but the WCS win in Europe is a regional victory. The finishes that are top 4 but not victorious tell a similar tale. Stephano does really well when he is close to home, at tournaments against (mostly) European fields. Even the NASL has significant numbers of Non-Koreans, with 7 out of the top 16 in Season 3 being Non-Korean. So if he gets the opportunity to go to Korea and participate in Code S, it would be a huge test for him. Even a round of 8 here would be a remarkable achievement, because he does not have many against fields larger than 32 players(I'm aware of the fact that code S is a 32 player event, but when you consider the interaction between Code A and Code S, I feel 64 is more representative of the size of the field for comparison purposes.) I don't know that we can say that Stephano is one of the best Zergs in the world currently, even though for a few months in 2011 he seemed unstoppable. I do know that he is one of the scariest Zerg players who is not a Korean, and that he is endlessly entertaining to watch. He may be tested at his ZvZ matchup, a matchup that for the current moment is really defining who the best zergs in the world are. Life/Sniper/Leenock are in Code S waiting, and I will be watching. Can Stephano dethrone those three Zergs? Is he truly one of the best in the world, and can he defeat a lineup of Koreans who spend all their time playing the Korean ladder instead of traveling to events? It is certain from his results that he cannot be counted out, but I would consider it a shock if he was to make it to a Round of 8. Exactly, if he makes Ro8 I will be amazed, gratz to him if he does and I will then consider him equal with Code S, Ro16 still wouldn't show his place, many of the Code A/S borderline players can make a Ro16 then get knocked straight back down. | ||
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eggsNbacon
United States14 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 29 2012 09:19 The_Darkness wrote: Last time they had affirmative action for KESPA players. Were you broken up about that too? Actually yea, and look what happened. The ones that didn't got a seed worked their way up through the qualifiers and are more likely to stay then seeds. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 29 2012 10:11 Skwid1g wrote: Foreigners don't have a chance to qualify. It's not an online qualifier and it's ridiculously expensive to fly to and stay in Korea just to attempt to qualify for the lesser bracket of the two tournaments. If there were no seeds given out we'd basically never see a foreigner in the GSL even if they had the skill to compete. Seeds being given out is both fair and unfair, depending on how you look at it. You know, this argument would hold if some players like HuK didn't already live there or players like Stephano that got a teamhouse to go to there didn't got seeded. What exactly is the difference between them and another korean lurking in code B waiting for a chance that could be the next Mvp? Let them qualify like the rest so they might actually put up a fight for once since we know how most seeds work. | ||
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1Dhalism
862 Posts
On December 29 2012 11:12 Assirra wrote: You know, this argument would hold if some players like HuK didn't already live there or players like Stephano that got a teamhouse to go to there didn't got seeded. What exactly is the difference between them and another korean lurking in code B waiting for a chance that could be the next Mvp? Let them qualify like the rest so they might actually put up a fight for once since we know how most seeds work. why would a professional waste their time on code b and code a when there is virtually no money to be won there. This type of attitude(and Hyhy thread in the dota 2 section) makes me very disappointed in how immature sc2 community really is. Why is it somehow a fault if a man wants to earn a living. | ||
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 29 2012 11:18 1Dhalism wrote: why would a professional waste their time on code b and code a when there is virtually no money to be won there. This type of attitude(and Hyhy thread in the dota 2 section) makes me very disappointed in how immature sc2 community really is. Why is it somehow a fault if a man wants to earn a living. Ok. they don't care about becoming the best player they can be, dedicating their lives to SC2, and competing in the most prestigious league in the world. Guess what, 100s of B team Koreans do. Seeding foreigners is fucking disgusting. | ||
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eviltomahawk
United States11135 Posts
On December 29 2012 08:24 mycro wrote: He probably wants to experience it once in his gaming career. Don't think he'll go far though since the format is not his style, hope I'm wrong though. I really hope he gets success in the GSL this coming year. iirc, he initially wanted to only play competitively for a year before retiring and moving on to school for a career in medicine. He was supposed to retire last summer iirc, but decided to stay for another year. It seems that a retirement this coming summer is a possibility considering that he has been serious about progaming being an inevitably temporary diversion from school. I can see Thorzain being in a similar situation as well since he has expressed desires to go back to school after an only temporary stint as being a full-time progamer. These two players have strong pressures to attend school at some point soon, and their progaming careers are thus put on an uneasy timer because of it. Maybe great success can elongate their progaming days by a year or two, but I fear that we may see them return to school this coming year if they fail. | ||
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Zavior
Finland753 Posts
On December 29 2012 11:20 decado90 wrote: Ok. they don't care about becoming the best player they can be, dedicating their lives to SC2, and competing in the most prestigious league in the world. Guess what, 100s of B team Koreans do. Seeding foreigners is fucking disgusting. Guess what, they have a business to run. They are not a charity. Foreigners bring more foreign spectators. | ||
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1Dhalism
862 Posts
On December 29 2012 11:20 decado90 wrote: Ok. they don't care about becoming the best player they can be, dedicating their lives to SC2, and competing in the most prestigious league in the world. Guess what, 100s of B team Koreans do. Seeding foreigners is fucking disgusting. They do care, and thankfully gsl provides them a mean to do so. What they don't care about is wasting their time on months of pointless tournaments. When you are older and you have a job(or god forbid don't have a job) you will understand the value of money. I'm sorry, i know this sounds rude and arrogant, but that's the truth. | ||
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gn1k
United States441 Posts
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peekn
United States1152 Posts
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Daumen
Germany1073 Posts
To Stephano: Aux armes, citoyens! Bonne Chance ;D | ||
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WhatsInAName
United States49 Posts
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 29 2012 11:12 Assirra wrote: You know, this argument would hold if some players like HuK didn't already live there or players like Stephano that got a teamhouse to go to there didn't got seeded. What exactly is the difference between them and another korean lurking in code B waiting for a chance that could be the next Mvp? Let them qualify like the rest so they might actually put up a fight for once since we know how most seeds work. Just because he has a team house over there doesn't mean that he can just drop everything to go over there and train for a month, then attempt code a qualifiers, then play through code a, and FINALLY play in code s if he manages those minefields. He could probably earn 10x more going abroad and winning whiteman events in that timeframe. Seeds entice top players that would otherwise not even bother. | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 29 2012 11:32 1Dhalism wrote: They do care, and thankfully gsl provides them a mean to do so. What they don't care about is wasting their time on months of pointless tournaments. When you are older and you have a job(or god forbid don't have a job) you will understand the value of money. I'm sorry, i know this sounds rude and arrogant, but that's the truth. Again, what is the difference between them and koreans who are in the same situation? And please, don't try to act grown-up with the money talk nonsense, that has nothing to do since we are comparing foreigners with koreans. Do koreans think less about money? Do they need to worry less about it? If both of those questions are no your money argument falls flat on its face. | ||
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DMXD
United States4064 Posts
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:00 Dosey wrote: Just because he has a team house over there doesn't mean that he can just drop everything to go over there and train for a month, then attempt code a qualifiers, then play through code a, and FINALLY play in code s if he manages those minefields. He could probably earn 10x more going abroad and winning whiteman events in that timeframe. Seeds entice top players that would otherwise not even bother. He could and i have no doubt EG and sponsors would gladly pay him considering what an advertising move that would be. If he wants to make more money then going through the qualifiers that his choice. But with choice comes consequences and now he gets best of both world that some people like me disagree with. | ||
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Dosey
United States4505 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:17 Assirra wrote: He could and i have no doubt EG and sponsors would gladly pay him considering what an advertising move that would be. If he wants to make more money then going through the qualifiers that his choice. But with choice comes consequences and now he gets best of both world that some people like me disagree with. I don't think you understand how sponsors work... That would be a terrible pitch. "HEY RAIDCALL, I HAVE A GENIUS IDEA!!! We're going to send Stephano to korea to train/play for 3 months to qualify for Code S! He's our most consistent foreign tournament player, but who cares about foreign stuff, even though you're a foreign based company! Pay for this dude to stay here for 3 months and POSSIBLY make it to the big stage of Code S while ignoring all foreign tournaments and getting your brand virtually no recognition! It's a sweet plan!" | ||
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anycolourfloyd
Australia524 Posts
code S has a much higher focus on preparation than other tournaments and what stephano really excels at is just winging stuff on the fly. | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
choosing him as captain (LOL -_-) along with a lot of other stupid things just destroyed my FPL team...GL to Stephano. Not sure whether he'll go deep, but I think he should be able to give a good showing. | ||
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CPTBadAss
United States594 Posts
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Csong
Canada396 Posts
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Meggiroth
239 Posts
Where will your god be in that moment? | ||
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Adreme
United States5574 Posts
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
Of course, given his level of play, it may not actually matter. That Koreans vs. The World mini tournament reminded me why Stephano is quite possibly one of the very best players in the world. A brief recap for those who missed it: A series of not god-tier performances from Stephano combined with a bunch of extremely gifted upstarts rearing their heads had left a fair number (myself included) thinking that Stephano might actually not be the top dog anymore. Then he killed four of the top 10 greatest Koreans in a row. Keep in mind these were the same Koreans who had just finished absolutely destroying those gifted upstarts I mentioned. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44334 Posts
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/C8JKT.jpg) Where will yours be? Anyways, best of luck to Stephano. I can see him doing as well as Naniwa, if he prepares properly. | ||
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JacobShock
Denmark2485 Posts
But yeah, It wouldn't be the first time he's made a similar statement about participating in code S. | ||
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
On December 29 2012 13:06 Meggiroth wrote: Ask yourself this. What if he wins it all? Where will your god be in that moment? I think... Flash will be busy: Winning IPL6, Winning Proleague MVP Winning Proleague Title Winning MLG Winning OSL Wnning Dreamhack and he will forfeit his finals and give Stephano the win because it wouldnt be fair to win everything and leave people with nothing. | ||
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Telsh
United States148 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:52 CPTBadAss wrote: Hell yes. First foreigner Royal Roader? no. | ||
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Achaia
United States643 Posts
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Kiyo.
United States2284 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:52 CPTBadAss wrote: Hell yes. First foreigner Royal Roader? lol. No, because it won't happen and No because he wouldn't be the first. Grrr was the first and only foreigner royal roader. | ||
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GolemMadness
Canada11044 Posts
Idra hasn't won a major title, though. Flash has won a billion. | ||
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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Khalum
Austria831 Posts
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RagequitBM
Canada2270 Posts
He was joking. It's fun to hype up your favorite player with hyperbole. I don't think Stephano will do well. EG curse first of all, second of all he doesnt prepare for players. He's stated it in interviews, he likes to just practice on ladder. Which is fine and dandy, and maybe will get him through groups, since thats different. But as soon as he plays a best of 5, he will most likely get knocked out. Who knows though, he's surprised me before. | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States44334 Posts
On December 29 2012 14:50 GolemMadness wrote: Idra hasn't won a major title, though. Flash has won a billion. IdrA won MLG ( http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/IdrA#Accomplishments ). | ||
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bobsire
Canada296 Posts
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TMD
Canada93 Posts
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FoShao
United States256 Posts
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samurai80
Japan4225 Posts
But... I think this will be hard to beat the zergs though. | ||
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johanes
Czech Republic2227 Posts
On December 29 2012 13:06 Meggiroth wrote: Ask yourself this. What if he wins it all? Where will your god be in that moment? Ah you mean Flash? Waiting for him in the finals of course. | ||
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MichaelDonovan
United States1453 Posts
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SwizzY
United States1549 Posts
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Fischbacher
Canada666 Posts
On December 29 2012 17:28 SwizzY wrote: Hope he does extremely well to stir up the GSL scene a bit. Getting a bit stale for me Considering that the two most recent champions (Life and Sniper) where not really on the radars 6 months ago... I can't say I agree | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Madars
Latvia166 Posts
On December 29 2012 15:18 RagequitBM wrote: He was joking. It's fun to hype up your favorite player with hyperbole. I don't think Stephano will do well. EG curse first of all, second of all he doesnt prepare for players. He's stated it in interviews, he likes to just practice on ladder. Which is fine and dandy, and maybe will get him through groups, since thats different. But as soon as he plays a best of 5, he will most likely get knocked out. Who knows though, he's surprised me before. I think it depends on the group he lands in, and I am more skeptical about him going to GSL, I smell a troll. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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Alryk
United States2718 Posts
On December 29 2012 18:05 Emzeeshady wrote: If you follow GSTL then they would be. Come to think of it look at all the team league superstars that went on to be Code S champs DRG MMA Life Sniper Your turn next Tear What about Leenock or Gumiho? | ||
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prOxi.FighT
Australia114 Posts
On December 29 2012 14:48 Kiyo. wrote: lol. No, because it won't happen and No because he wouldn't be the first. Grrr was the first and only foreigner royal roader. I don't think Grrr counts as a royal roader since it was the first ever OSL that he won. | ||
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fireforce7
United States334 Posts
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Zeon0
Austria2995 Posts
There was only one back to back finals appearance as well (ofc Mvp), variance is just that huge. Despite that, people will call Stephano a noob if he loses for example in ro8... | ||
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
Last time it was him who went to korea for boxer head. | ||
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Earawen
France51 Posts
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Thurken
961 Posts
People are gonna say he is the best in the world or just another embarrassing foreigner. There is an incomprehension about GSL. It may be Artosis' fault or someone else but people think it is a tournament won by the best player. I can understand the confusion, GSL is the most known tournament, it is really exciting and hyped, there are nearly the best players here, it is held in korea... But guess what, GSL is the most versatile tournament ever. I'm not making claim without facts: look at the five seasons of 2012. There were 9 different people (out of ten) going top 2. Only MVP was able to do it twice in one year. There were 18 people (out of 20) going top 4. Only DRG (besides mvp) was able to do it twice in a year. You can say the top4 world in starcraft change every two month or you can maybe see that GSL is not about who is the best but who (between the best in the world) has the best strategies in a specific metagame, who has bracket luck etc... because because so many things such as no loser bracket, long preparation time, team houses and coach are out of your control as a progammer. | ||
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m0ck
4194 Posts
On December 29 2012 22:04 Thurken wrote: I'm afraid of the comment here about Stephano's run, whether it is good or bad. There is an incomprehension about GSL. It may be Artosis' fault or someone else but people think it is a tournament won by the best player. Guess what, GSL is the most versatile tournament ever. I'm not making claim without facts: look at the five seasons of 2012. There were 9 people (out of ten) going top 2. Only MVP was able to do it twice in one year. There were 18 people (out of 20) going top 4. Only DRG (besides mvp) was able to do it twice in a year. You can say the top4 world in starcraft change every two month or you can maybe see that GSL is not about who is the best but who (between the best in the world) has the best strategies in a specific metagame, who has bracket luck etc... because because so many things such as no loser bracket, long preparation time, team houses and coach are out of your control as a progammer. No one likes to think of probabilities when considering sports. GSL is pretty random. Match-ups, build-orders and a lot of players very close in skill. Whichever way it goes, I think we can be sure that the significance of the result will be overestimated ^^ | ||
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Kyselin
France35 Posts
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oxyg3n
Netherlands18 Posts
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Cattlecruiser
United States340 Posts
On December 29 2012 18:03 Emzeeshady wrote: Flash has won nothing in the only game that matters right now Idra has been around since the beta and had his major "peak" during the early 2011 stage. 1. Game has evolved 2. Flash has been playing this game for a bit over a year 3. Top 4 finish at the MvP invitational isn't "nothing", not much because of competition like Idra 4. His current OSL record is the best in the league Currently Stephano would ruin Idra in a ZvZ and probably beat FLash in a ZvT. Pointing towards at least ro16 finish for him. Unless his group is full of the best non-mirror match ups. I predict GOM would stack his group with a zerg, terran and protoss Maybe Ryung, Life, Squirtle? Parting? Nxt round hit him with Bogus, Leenock, and the other ST protoss. GOM really likes to keep foreigners in the lower rounds if possible. Plz use Stephano less in the Proleague, like one appearance per week or less. No more streaming, until he gets out of Korea. Have him practice like he has never before because GSL format is different than foreign tournaments. I would hate to give foreigner fans an excuse for his early drop, but if Naniwa made it to ro4 Stephano should do just fine. | ||
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
On December 29 2012 18:03 Emzeeshady wrote: Flash has won nothing in the only game that matters right now because Flash winning MLG invitational Top 4 in MLG MVP Tournament (knocked out by Soo on pre-patch, who's looking like one of the top Zergs right now) and Top 3 in MLG Dallas (knocked out by then GSL Champion, Life) and the top 5 Proleague record is nothing worth denoting progress, and a strong track record thus far. The only tournament where he was underwhelming was his GSL performance where his weak TvT is/was exposed and WCS where he was knocked out by Sniper (Who is the runner up in the GSL Finals) Idra maybe needs one cabinet full of medals/trophies for his accomplishments, Flash probably needs like 12 | ||
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Linwelin
Ireland7554 Posts
On December 29 2012 18:03 Emzeeshady wrote: Flash has won nothing in the only game that matters right now You don't have to be so aggressive | ||
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LighT.
Canada4501 Posts
On December 29 2012 18:05 Emzeeshady wrote: If you follow GSTL then they would be. Come to think of it look at all the team league superstars that went on to be Code S champs DRG MMA Life Sniper Your turn next Tear You'd think Yonghwa would have demi-god status right now. | ||
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Warboss
United States12 Posts
Good luck to him no the Less. | ||
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
On December 29 2012 22:32 m0ck wrote: No one likes to think of probabilities when considering sports. GSL is pretty random. Match-ups, build-orders and a lot of players very close in skill. Whichever way it goes, I think we can be sure that the significance of the result will be overestimated ^^ See, it's not the Matchups -- So imagine a person, let's call them JYP, has a bad matchup, and let's say it is against Terran. Is it RANDOM that they lose if they play against a Terran? I doubt it. Also, Ro16 is _picked_, and the Ro8 matchups are determined by who picks whom. That's not terribly _random_, at least not in any way that term has ever been defined. There may be variance from season to season, but that's nonrandom as well. Also, build orders are a non-random event. What choices are out there may be dictated by time and or place, but it is assuredly not random. I know nobody really says it enough, but nothing any progamer does is random. It may be a mistake, they may forget things from time to time, but forgetfulness is not random either, because a great progamer notices when they forget things. Decisions on what build order to choose are also non-random. Even if the metagame says "This is what you do in this matchup", a coach and a player decide what to do in a certain map in a certain score in a certain position. Everything is being mapped out. Sometimes a plan doesn't work; after all, somebody does lose. But it is assuredly not random. Skill. Finally we get to the real heart of it. Skill is the overriding factor. Skill is not random, but rather it is a function of understanding and (lots of) practice. It is also nonlinear. Different players may understand things sooner than others, and that plays out in results. But there again, that's not random either. Frankly, luck is not the reason anything happens in starcraft. And things that look like luck are probably something that has happened a number of times in in-house games. The largest luck factor in the GSL is the Round of 32 groups, and there are conspiracy theories as to how those are selected and just how random they are. But the rest is time and place specific. | ||
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
On December 30 2012 02:13 LighT. wrote: You'd think Yonghwa would have demi-god status right now. I think we've been waiting for Yonghwa longer than we did for theSTC or Bomber to break out...I'm not holding my breath. I'm waiting for Startale_Avenge. Sniper knocked him out in the first round of Code A the season after they were the breakout stars. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 29 2012 22:32 m0ck wrote: No one likes to think of probabilities when considering sports. GSL is pretty random. Match-ups, build-orders and a lot of players very close in skill. Whichever way it goes, I think we can be sure that the significance of the result will be overestimated ^^ Well, if you go by that theory, every sport and life is random. Things like weather, condition, injury, referee etc all play a huge role in sports. And even in normal life, is the person being paid the most in your company the 'best' person? The smartest? The hardest working? | ||
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ColtraneL
France248 Posts
The difference between last year (10/12 GSL tournaments to 4 players) and this year is huge. Despite the fact that you don't like the use of the word random, you can't say that there is no volatility in SC2 at the moment, and that implies two possible things. Either the luck aspect of every match up is important or the pool of player in code S is so close in level that you never see the same players dominate. In 5 tournaments, it's a bit hard to discuss whether it is one option or the other, even more when you take into account the fact that those 5 tournaments were played over a full year of evolving metagame, but still it always gives me this bitter impression that you can't really bet with confidence on anybody in GSL. I kinda liked when I was able to know who was going to win. For example, I have a hard time appreciating the fact that Taeja crushed everybody during two months with incredible domination before losing to a lot of inferior players right after. Seems pretty volatile to me (And I'm not even a fan of Taeja). | ||
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aintz
Canada5624 Posts
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unix04
United States89 Posts
On December 29 2012 12:22 Dosey wrote: I don't think you understand how sponsors work... That would be a terrible pitch. "HEY RAIDCALL, I HAVE A GENIUS IDEA!!! We're going to send Stephano to korea to train/play for 3 months to qualify for Code S! He's our most consistent foreign tournament player, but who cares about foreign stuff, even though you're a foreign based company! Pay for this dude to stay here for 3 months and POSSIBLY make it to the big stage of Code S while ignoring all foreign tournaments and getting your brand virtually no recognition! It's a sweet plan!" You know it doesn't cost a lot to sponsor one player for 3 months in Korea. We are not talking tens of thousands in endorsements. It would be very little cost and sending him would increase their global footprint by adding Korea to their audience. In the case that stephano does make it far into code s that will translate to stronger brand recognition in other places in the world, especially when he returns to crash the foreign scene once again. Rc already has many players already to spread their brand in foreign tourneys. One less will not ruin their campaign. It really comes down to your confidence in Stephan but it's low risk high reward. Every once in a while it's ok to make a few bets like this especially if you are in the marketing industry. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 30 2012 03:10 ColtraneL wrote: You may not want to call it luck, but what Thurken says is still true. There is no stability in the game at the moment, no player that is capable of consistently crushing everybody, and the a solid proof are the numbers Thurken mentionned. The difference between last year (10/12 GSL tournaments to 4 players) and this year is huge. Despite the fact that you don't like the use of the word random, you can't say that there is no volatility in SC2 at the moment, and that implies two possible things. Either the luck aspect of every match up is important or the pool of player in code S is so close in level that you never see the same players dominate. In 5 tournaments, it's a bit hard to discuss whether it is one option or the other, even more when you take into account the fact that those 5 tournaments were played over a full year of evolving metagame, but still it always gives me this bitter impression that you can't really bet with confidence on anybody in GSL. I kinda liked when I was able to know who was going to win. For example, I have a hard time appreciating the fact that Taeja crushed everybody during two months with incredible domination before losing to a lot of inferior players right after. Seems pretty volatile to me (And I'm not even a fan of Taeja). I think that the players in Code S has just gotten so much closer in skill. Look at something like tennis. We have periods where it is dominated by 1 or 2 or 3 players and periods where it is wide open. Same with many other sports, it is just the way it is. Would someone say tennis is a volatile game? | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Sea_aeS
1025 Posts
On December 30 2012 03:08 vthree wrote: Well, if you go by that theory, every sport and life is random. Things like weather, condition, injury, referee etc all play a huge role in sports. And even in normal life, is the person being paid the most in your company the 'best' person? The smartest? The hardest working? Of course there is randomness even in normal life .... And for your example : most of the time the "best paid" ppl in companies come from the best schools, and ppl from the best schools come from the "best" social environment, and the fact that you, and not another, were born in the upper class is "random". | ||
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Animzor
Sweden2154 Posts
On December 30 2012 03:11 aintz wrote: is it for real this time. no it aintz | ||
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OrD_SC2
United States247 Posts
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Slardar
Canada7593 Posts
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Thurken
961 Posts
On December 30 2012 03:19 vthree wrote: I think that the players in Code S has just gotten so much closer in skill. Look at something like tennis. We have periods where it is dominated by 1 or 2 or 3 players and periods where it is wide open. Same with many other sports, it is just the way it is. Would someone say tennis is a volatile game? It is possible that people have gotten much closer in skill in code S but if you look at other big events where many of the best players are here (MLG, IPL, DH), you see that out of the last 7 tournaments, you only have 4 different winners. The top4 is also a lot less spread out. You could say that the skill variance is higher in those tournament but, the players pool is also a lot more diverse than in GSL. You have better chance to know you is gonna perform well in MLG, IPL or DH than in GSL because of different factors, but also because of the fact that GSL does not really reward the best player (by best I mean the best at macroing/microing/understanding the game/performing under pressure/reacting accordingly). | ||
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Chemist
Austria127 Posts
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rysecake
United States2632 Posts
not really... | ||
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niteReloaded
Croatia5281 Posts
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revel8
United Kingdom3022 Posts
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c0sm0naut
United States1229 Posts
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
Still, really looking forward to it! | ||
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Bobster
Germany3075 Posts
On December 30 2012 03:18 unix04 wrote: You know it doesn't cost a lot to sponsor one player for 3 months in Korea. We are not talking tens of thousands in endorsements. It would be very little cost and sending him would increase their global footprint by adding Korea to their audience. In the case that stephano does make it far into code s that will translate to stronger brand recognition in other places in the world, especially when he returns to crash the foreign scene once again. Rc already has many players already to spread their brand in foreign tourneys. One less will not ruin their campaign. It really comes down to your confidence in Stephan but it's low risk high reward. Every once in a while it's ok to make a few bets like this especially if you are in the marketing industry. Well, it's also about opportunity cost. What could Stephano do in those three-four months were he not stuck in Korea? It's always about these kinds of decisions with sponsors and budgets. But honestly, Stephano is the undisputed king among non-Koreans, he's won more money, more prestige, beat more Koreans than anyone else - he has nothing left to prove here. I think it's fine. | ||
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Quixotic_tv
Germany130 Posts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nK5bmnflB-8 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384515 In this interview he said he wouldn't participate in GSL because he thinks he is better at foreign tournaments where you cannot prepare very early for a special opponent, implying he is too lazy for preparing for Code S. I think he now has prepared a lot for this. He also said his mechanics are not too good, but he does very effective builds and has a very good map awareness. Maybe he is training and feels well enough for Code S. | ||
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HanFuzi
Israel80 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 30 2012 07:43 The_Templar wrote: Is he being seeded or will he qualify? It's very easy to answer that question by reading the thread. | ||
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Repomies
Finland73 Posts
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Scoggerbot
United States21 Posts
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mhael
United States102 Posts
I think its a very smart move especially if he wins. I pray anyone wins but a zerg though - so tired of zergs. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
What I like about the idea of seeing him play in the GSL is the fact that he will have to play several rounds over many weeks and or months, presuming he does well. As this first GSL of 2013 will not end until the last part of March, we will have at least two different days of data, and at least two, or maybe all three of his matchups on display. Not only that, but we will see these data points over a period of time; it's not just one weekend that someone can prepare for and go beast mode on it. The GSL offers no period of rest for someone who wins it; You play two long days(Ro32, Ro16), one Best of 3(Bo5?) for the Ro8, one best of 5 for Ro4, and finally the Finals as Bo7. That's 6(!) days of play! You have to be supremely consistent, and realistically you have to play all the matchups at least once, showing great play in at least two of them. And that is just one of the reasons I consider it to be the hardest tournament in the world. | ||
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
On December 30 2012 05:15 Bobster wrote: Well, it's also about opportunity cost. What could Stephano do in those three-four months were he not stuck in Korea? It's always about these kinds of decisions with sponsors and budgets. But honestly, Stephano is the undisputed king among non-Koreans, he's won more money, more prestige, beat more Koreans than anyone else - he has nothing left to prove here. I think it's fine. Well, it is most certainly not undisputed. Nothing in that conversation is ever undisputed, unless someone has a run good enough that we call them Bonjwha. And Stephano, while having done well, is not really close to that level. IMO he has a career that has been extremely well managed to show his best side, while attempting to if not cover up, at least mitigate any potential counterargument against his apparent "Best Foreigner" status. MC is the biggest money winner in SC2, and nobody is really considering him as the undisputed "Best Player". He travels a lot. He seems to finish around the top of the field. That's all well and good, but it's not like what Life did, winning a GSL and while he still had the title, winning one of the largest and most important foreigner offline weekend events. Stephano has not won more than one large major event in any year of his career. Undisputed best player status requires major wins, and more than one a year. I view Stephano as more of a Leenock than a Life. A player who has the ability to get there, but maybe his practice regimen is a little off sometimes, or he just isn't talking to the right practice parters, or something is happening in his life we don't know about. But when he finds something really good, he looks unstoppable. The problem is that he doesn't seem to find enough of them. | ||
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AnachronisticAnarchy
United States2957 Posts
Though he may be blunt, he's very much in the right. There's been a bit of asymmetry in terms of skill translating from BW to SC2. For the moment, at least, BW results are indicative of very little. Some of the big stars have done well, and others have fallen flat on their ass. We really are going to have to disregard BW results when examining the skill of players. Only SC2 results are relevant. Also, I think the Flash superfan is nuts. | ||
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SEA KarMa
Australia452 Posts
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Bam Lee
2336 Posts
On December 30 2012 15:40 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote: Though he may be blunt, he's very much in the right. There's been a bit of asymmetry in terms of skill translating from BW to SC2. For the moment, at least, BW results are indicative of very little. Some of the big stars have done well, and others have fallen flat on their ass. We really are going to have to disregard BW results when examining the skill of players. Only SC2 results are relevant. Also, I think the Flash superfan is nuts. except for the fact that flash is already pretty damn good in sc2 also i dont see stephano going past the ro16 | ||
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taldarimAltar
973 Posts
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NeThZOR
South Africa7387 Posts
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ineversmile
United States583 Posts
On December 31 2012 00:59 taldarimAltar wrote: Out in first round, I'm calling it I give it the first or second round. Stephano is the most predictable zerg in the foreign scene. | ||
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
On December 31 2012 03:26 ineversmile wrote: I give it the first or second round. Stephano is the most predictable zerg in the foreign scene. ya he always wins. so predictable | ||
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Assirra
Belgium4169 Posts
If he always won why does he not have more then 1 big championship this year? He is good but please, always winning is only from Mvp back before his wrists exploded. | ||
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ratbert
Germany1041 Posts
On December 31 2012 03:43 Assirra wrote: If he always won why does he not have more then 1 big championship this year? He is good but please, always winning is only from Mvp back before his wrists exploded. yeah i know. i was just making fun of people calling him "predictable" . his playstyle is probably one of the least predictable of the zergs around. roach hydra zvt, need i say more? | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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Freibier
Germany3 Posts
On December 31 2012 04:01 ratbert wrote: yeah i know. i was just making fun of people calling him "predictable" . his playstyle is probably one of the least predictable of the zergs around. roach hydra zvt, need i say more? its not that he has no interesting Styles, its just that he is not someone like viOLet, who can always just do a crazy counterattack or Nestea who just plays very reactive, its just that he most times just goes for his builds and does them. his builds are quite good though, even though I am not a fan of him a have to admit that. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On December 30 2012 14:20 thrawn1020 wrote: Well, it is most certainly not undisputed. Nothing in that conversation is ever undisputed, unless someone has a run good enough that we call them Bonjwha. And Stephano, while having done well, is not really close to that level. IMO he has a career that has been extremely well managed to show his best side, while attempting to if not cover up, at least mitigate any potential counterargument against his apparent "Best Foreigner" status. MC is the biggest money winner in SC2, and nobody is really considering him as the undisputed "Best Player". He travels a lot. He seems to finish around the top of the field. That's all well and good, but it's not like what Life did, winning a GSL and while he still had the title, winning one of the largest and most important foreigner offline weekend events. Stephano has not won more than one large major event in any year of his career. Undisputed best player status requires major wins, and more than one a year. I view Stephano as more of a Leenock than a Life. A player who has the ability to get there, but maybe his practice regimen is a little off sometimes, or he just isn't talking to the right practice parters, or something is happening in his life we don't know about. But when he finds something really good, he looks unstoppable. The problem is that he doesn't seem to find enough of them. What foreigner has won more than one big event per year and would thus be better than Stephano (according to your logic)? | ||
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MyNameIsAlex
Greece827 Posts
Haters gonna hate I guess. | ||
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phANT1m
South Africa535 Posts
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Tommylew
Wales2717 Posts
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Doulmaigus
France352 Posts
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SorrowShine
698 Posts
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carloselcoco
United States2302 Posts
On December 31 2012 04:22 MyNameIsAlex wrote: Lol people still arguing about Stephano. Jeesus he' s the most accomplished Foreigner vs Koreans. Find me 1 guy with the amount of games Stephano has vs Koreans that still has a better win %. Oh and he has beaten consistenly big names too. Haters gonna hate I guess. Actually, Jinro's record was batter than Stephano's before he retired. | ||
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 31 2012 04:17 Doodsmack wrote: What foreigner has won more than one big event per year and would thus be better than Stephano (according to your logic)? Shit like that is deceptive. Major is a lot better than a lot of people that have better results than him. I've realized people just look at results and don't watch Starcraft. They don't analyze games, or look at player's strengths and weaknesses. Stephano beats MKP and MVP with a move roach hydra, and gets thrashed by Xlord and idra and they proclaim him Code S. Major loses a close series to Symbol and Cj Hero at WCS in the first group, playing very well, and he's written off as overrated. Scarlett plays like garbage and beats Bomber and Ryung and she's proclaimed a top 2 foreigner. None of this "best x player in the y" nonsence should be considered except if explained by a high level player that does research and actually watches and anaylzes the game. Plat players riding Stephano into the Ro4 GSL or Grubby into Code S (his game against Sting was one of the most horrid things I've ever seen) should learn more about the game and players before making claims. | ||
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FalconHoof
Canada183 Posts
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MyNameIsAlex
Greece827 Posts
On December 31 2012 09:33 carloselcoco wrote: Actually, Jinro's record was batter than Stephano's before he retired. how many games did jinro have ? | ||
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decado90
United States480 Posts
Isn't Stephano's lifetime record vs Koreans sub 50% I wouldn't be bragging lol. Makes him one of the worst players in Code S :D | ||
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SenorChang
Australia4730 Posts
On December 31 2012 10:21 decado90 wrote: Isn't Stephano's lifetime record vs Koreans sub 50% I wouldn't be bragging lol. Makes him one of the worst players in Code S :D i am a fan of your evidence and well drawn conclusions | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
well, there is an easy way to see about that Jinro . I love TLPD :D. though you gotta remember when Jinro was in his prime, he was INSANELY good, like he TLO and HuK (and HayprO) were with oGs and pretty much kicking ass day and night.EDIT: go to the liquipedia page and don't look at the statistics, those are most recent which is not a good display of the Gorilla terran's dominance. | ||
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Natalya
Belgium287 Posts
On December 30 2012 02:54 thrawn1020 wrote: See, it's not the Matchups -- So imagine a person, let's call them JYP, has a bad matchup, and let's say it is against Terran. Is it RANDOM that they lose if they play against a Terran? I doubt it. Also, Ro16 is _picked_, and the Ro8 matchups are determined by who picks whom. That's not terribly _random_, at least not in any way that term has ever been defined. There may be variance from season to season, but that's nonrandom as well. Also, build orders are a non-random event. What choices are out there may be dictated by time and or place, but it is assuredly not random. I know nobody really says it enough, but nothing any progamer does is random. It may be a mistake, they may forget things from time to time, but forgetfulness is not random either, because a great progamer notices when they forget things. Decisions on what build order to choose are also non-random. Even if the metagame says "This is what you do in this matchup", a coach and a player decide what to do in a certain map in a certain score in a certain position. Everything is being mapped out. Sometimes a plan doesn't work; after all, somebody does lose. But it is assuredly not random. Skill. Finally we get to the real heart of it. Skill is the overriding factor. Skill is not random, but rather it is a function of understanding and (lots of) practice. It is also nonlinear. Different players may understand things sooner than others, and that plays out in results. But there again, that's not random either. Frankly, luck is not the reason anything happens in starcraft. And things that look like luck are probably something that has happened a number of times in in-house games. The largest luck factor in the GSL is the Round of 32 groups, and there are conspiracy theories as to how those are selected and just how random they are. But the rest is time and place specific. What is random is when player A has two specific builds to react to a one rax expo. But the terran could do, say, 2 builds after that rax expo. When player A perform his first build, it do well against the first follow-up to the one rax expo, but do not do well against the second. Now, given that you dont have scouting information in time to know which follow-up the terran choosed, which build, out of your two builds, are you going to choose? It's random, i'm sorry, even if the randomness can be diminished by looking a lot of replays of your opponent to see what follow-up he uses on what map etc. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On December 31 2012 09:44 decado90 wrote: Shit like that is deceptive. Major is a lot better than a lot of people that have better results than him. I've realized people just look at results and don't watch Starcraft. They don't analyze games, or look at player's strengths and weaknesses. Stephano beats MKP and MVP with a move roach hydra, and gets thrashed by Xlord and idra and they proclaim him Code S. Major loses a close series to Symbol and Cj Hero at WCS in the first group, playing very well, and he's written off as overrated. Scarlett plays like garbage and beats Bomber and Ryung and she's proclaimed a top 2 foreigner. None of this "best x player in the y" nonsence should be considered except if explained by a high level player that does research and actually watches and anaylzes the game. Plat players riding Stephano into the Ro4 GSL or Grubby into Code S (his game against Sting was one of the most horrid things I've ever seen) should learn more about the game and players before making claims. And this is why GOM is genius for seeding Stephano. Even if he flames out in the first round, the amount of eyeballs on him will be tremendous. GOM and EG are the only ones who understand marketing. | ||
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PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
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MyNameIsAlex
Greece827 Posts
On December 31 2012 11:24 docvoc wrote: well, there is an easy way to see about that Jinro . I love TLPD :D. though you gotta remember when Jinro was in his prime, he was INSANELY good, like he TLO and HuK (and HayprO) were with oGs and pretty much kicking ass day and night.EDIT: go to the liquipedia page and don't look at the statistics, those are most recent which is not a good display of the Gorilla terran's dominance. as far as I remember these guys were good but never kicking that much korean ass. Let alone kick it consistenly for a couple years or even change the metagame of matchups. | ||
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skorched
United States81 Posts
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The_Templar
your Country52797 Posts
On December 30 2012 07:58 Doodsmack wrote: It's very easy to answer that question by reading the thread. Hmm... I may need better spectacles :o | ||
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INTOtheVOID
United States225 Posts
User was banned for this post. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On December 31 2012 13:12 MyNameIsAlex wrote: Jinro kind of did, with his mech play, while few others played that way in Korea. His two semi-finals in GSL are also unmatched by a foreigner, and I do not see it being beaten. Needless to say there weren't many other matchups between koreans and foreigners at that time, other than GSL.as far as I remember these guys were good but never kicking that much korean ass. Let alone kick it consistenly for a couple years or even change the metagame of matchups. Ret was also one of the first, if not the first to drone heavily, and make 14 hatchery. Lastly, TLO has always been the most innovative player - at least in my eyes. | ||
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ChoDing
United States740 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:02 Dracolich70 wrote: Jinro kind of did, with his mech play, while few others played that way in Korea. His two semi-finals in GSL are also unmatched by a foreigner, and I do not see it being beaten. Needless to say there weren't many other matchups between koreans and foreigners at that time, other than GSL. Ret was also one of the first, if not the first to drone heavily, and make 14 hatchery. Lastly, TLO has always been the most innovative player - at least in my eyes. yeah that. u have a terrible eye sight. anyways. i wish Stephano the best since i think he is the best foreigner yet to come out of the closet. | ||
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Emzeeshady
Canada4203 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:29 Emzeeshady wrote: I am sorry but the game was undiscovered, random and really unbalanced at that point. Jinro's two semifinal placings hold no standing imo. Even qualifying for the GSL in these days would be more impressive imo. Discovered or not he still made it when no other foreigners did even at the same time. Most foreigners still lost early in GSL if they played of the select few that did. But I honestly don't see a foreigner getting that far in the GSL anytime soon though ><. | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:29 Emzeeshady wrote: I am sorry but the game was undiscovered, random and really unbalanced at that point. Jinro's two semifinal placings hold no standing imo. Even qualifying for the GSL in these days would be more impressive imo. Yeah but everyone, both koreans and foreigners, were worse. That's like saying Boxer or oov were less accomplished than some average kespa pro now because the level of play is so much higher | ||
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decado90
United States480 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:46 GhostKorean wrote: Yeah but everyone, both koreans and foreigners, were worse. That's like saying Boxer or oov were less accomplished than some average kespa pro now because the level of play is so much higher Idra and Tester were the best players in the BETA. | ||
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Sub40APM
6336 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:29 Emzeeshady wrote: I am sorry but the game was undiscovered, random and really unbalanced at that point. Jinro's two semifinal placings hold no standing imo. Even qualifying for the GSL in these days would be more impressive imo. Then we should discount all accomplishments except the immediate ones because the game and the players almost always improve. | ||
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Kuckuck
Germany6 Posts
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:15 ChoDing wrote: Counter-arguments would be nice, but looking at the way you write, I believe that would be an overwhelming task for you, so I guess this is the extent of your abilities.yeah that. u have a terrible eye sight. anyways. i wish Stephano the best since i think he is the best foreigner yet to come out of the closet. | ||
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Dracolich70
Denmark3820 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:29 Emzeeshady wrote: That is always the premise; you evolve with the game, which will happen 3 years from now as well. I am sorry but the game was undiscovered, random and really unbalanced at that point. Jinro's two semifinal placings hold no standing imo. Even qualifying for the GSL in these days would be more impressive imo. Anywhich way, I just illustrated that the person was wrong when he said that they never changed the metagame, because they did. | ||
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vthree
Hong Kong8039 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:29 Emzeeshady wrote: I am sorry but the game was undiscovered, random and really unbalanced at that point. Jinro's two semifinal placings hold no standing imo. Even qualifying for the GSL in these days would be more impressive imo. I am sure 3-4 years from now, people will say the same thing about WoL as a whole. | ||
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Thurken
961 Posts
On December 31 2012 14:46 GhostKorean wrote: Yeah but everyone, both koreans and foreigners, were worse. That's like saying Boxer or oov were less accomplished than some average kespa pro now because the level of play is so much higher If you stay consistent like Boxer over a long period of time it is very different. But I find Flash's run more impressive but there was more competition. At the beginning of a game, fewer players play. Very few foreigner have the opportunity to go to Korea. Korean doesn't have the time to get the most out of their practice regime, their team house or their coach. The game is a bigger work in progress, so if you find an innovative strategy like Jinro did it's gonna carry you a lot more (and after that you'll have trouble to do good results or even ok result). All that makes it more likely to have a foreigner do good in Korea. | ||
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BoYoB
France83 Posts
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IRL_Sinister
Ireland621 Posts
On December 31 2012 07:42 Doulmaigus wrote: I'm not sure if he has the capacity to go far in there. But I surely hope he does! GL Unfortunately, this. Best of luck. | ||
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Destro
Netherlands1206 Posts
if he flounders, im not so sure his title as best foreigner will be re-thought | ||
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Dunmer
United Kingdom568 Posts
On December 30 2012 00:38 Cattlecruiser wrote: Currently Stephano would ruin Idra in a ZvZ Idra beat stephano at the WCS world finals. | ||
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TAMinator
Australia2706 Posts
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Butterednuts
United States859 Posts
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superstartran
United States4013 Posts
On December 31 2012 19:43 Thurken wrote: If you stay consistent like Boxer over a long period of time it is very different. But I find Flash's run more impressive but there was more competition. At the beginning of a game, fewer players play. Very few foreigner have the opportunity to go to Korea. Korean doesn't have the time to get the most out of their practice regime, their team house or their coach. The game is a bigger work in progress, so if you find an innovative strategy like Jinro did it's gonna carry you a lot more (and after that you'll have trouble to do good results or even ok result). All that makes it more likely to have a foreigner do good in Korea. There's so much wrong with this. First, everyone thought that because Jinro was doing well that the gap had closed between foreign players and Korean players. What happened when the Koreans first started showing up on North American/European soil? They figuratively took a shit over almost everyone. Koreans still dominated early in SC2's lifetime, and even back then placing that high in GSL is an accomplishment, especially considering who Jinro beat enroute. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
Guaranteed to see these after he loses first game | ||
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Thurken
961 Posts
On January 01 2013 02:47 trinxified wrote: I'm so excited to see these comments: "Welcome to Code S, stephano" Guaranteed to see these after he loses first game I think we'll most likely see the annoying "eg curse" comments. On January 01 2013 01:59 superstartran wrote: There's so much wrong with this. First, everyone thought that because Jinro was doing well that the gap had closed between foreign players and Korean players. What happened when the Koreans first started showing up on North American/European soil? They figuratively took a shit over almost everyone. Koreans still dominated early in SC2's lifetime, and even back then placing that high in GSL is an accomplishment, especially considering who Jinro beat enroute. I think you mix up the timeline. Jinro was successful in GSL in 2010 and january 2011. Korean started showing up in NA/EU six month later. | ||
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creamyturtle
United States487 Posts
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LuckoftheIrish
United States4791 Posts
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
On December 31 2012 11:48 Natalya wrote: What is random is when player A has two specific builds to react to a one rax expo. But the terran could do, say, 2 builds after that rax expo. When player A perform his first build, it do well against the first follow-up to the one rax expo, but do not do well against the second. Now, given that you dont have scouting information in time to know which follow-up the terran choosed, which build, out of your two builds, are you going to choose? It's random, i'm sorry, even if the randomness can be diminished by looking a lot of replays of your opponent to see what follow-up he uses on what map etc. For starters, a one-rax expo just means "All the stuff that is not cheese." That's first off. So, what you mean is that a terran could do two builds that are not early cheese. Also, you are not talking about a specific matchup, just a game that has a terran in it. And just because two specific builds do exist does means neither that they are equivalently good, nor have you implied what the opponent might have been doing that we are not scouting. Moreover, scouting info is a result of map awareness and effort; the implied lack therein, when taken to its conclusion, also implies that the terran player you are referencing feels their build would be safe against anything that the opponent would be doing. Randomness is not diminished by watching replays specifically, though that may provide some insight into the opponent's psyche, but rather by having practiced against similar situations, and knowing what is possible from an opponent through timings. Furthermore, even taking on the example as given presumes that we are choosing from two all-in followups to a basic early game. And the choice of example, and lack of specifics says more about your knowledge of the game than it does about the game as it's being played. | ||
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monsta
172 Posts
hope he plays in proleague too :DDD | ||
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Andre
Slovenia3523 Posts
On December 31 2012 15:06 decado90 wrote: Idra and Tester were the best players in the BETA. Biggest bullshit ever. Judging by what? 2 tournaments?(woo idra won some games vs tester must mean he's better ,,,) Check, Polt, TheSTC, Fruitdealer, Zenio, HongUn, Cezzane, Hyperdub, Ensnare and bunch of others were a lot better than IdrA. Fruitdealer/TheSTC were on the level Tester was for their respective races. | ||
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SteBreeze
United Kingdom13 Posts
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ETisME
12393 Posts
On January 01 2013 15:59 thrawn1020 wrote: For starters, a one-rax expo just means "All the stuff that is not cheese." That's first off. So, what you mean is that a terran could do two builds that are not early cheese. Also, you are not talking about a specific matchup, just a game that has a terran in it. And just because two specific builds do exist does means neither that they are equivalently good, nor have you implied what the opponent might have been doing that we are not scouting. Moreover, scouting info is a result of map awareness and effort; the implied lack therein, when taken to its conclusion, also implies that the terran player you are referencing feels their build would be safe against anything that the opponent would be doing. Randomness is not diminished by watching replays specifically, though that may provide some insight into the opponent's psyche, but rather by having practiced against similar situations, and knowing what is possible from an opponent through timings. Furthermore, even taking on the example as given presumes that we are choosing from two all-in followups to a basic early game. And the choice of example, and lack of specifics says more about your knowledge of the game than it does about the game as it's being played. but what about a....proxy one-rax expo into mech? cheese or no? lol | ||
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Inviteme
United States165 Posts
just wondering | ||
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thrawn1020
United States32 Posts
On January 02 2013 01:32 ETisME wrote: but what about a....proxy one-rax expo into mech? cheese or no? lol At risk of boring you, a one-rax expand doesn't really involve a proxy in any form, so the question is already answered by the question itself. | ||
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thesums
Taiwan257 Posts
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-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
On January 03 2013 00:00 thesums wrote: wait hold on...so foreigners will be seeded into code s? or does he have to qualify...i hope they make it fair for everyone. Code S has always had two places for direct seeds which was given to players that did good at non GSL tournaments. Both foreigners and koreans got those in the past. | ||
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MetalicRain
United States6 Posts
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tili
United States1332 Posts
This this should go hand in hand with :https://twitter.com/EGStephanoRC/status/287189081706860546 "One of my New year resolution was to be more dedicated to my " job ". So I'll stream, practise, and keep serious in tournaments. FOR REAL!!!" | ||
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