|
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iFgpR.jpg)
Hello Team Liquid community!
Many mapmakers have been losing motivation due to the fact that maps are usually quickly forgotten, once dropped from the first page of the custom map subforum - often without ever being played at all. At the same time, people have started complaining about the staleness of map pools and many have been asking for new maps, even though they already exist, hundreds of them.
So, in an effort to give community maps more attention, a few people from the TL mapmaking community have been working on this small project over the past couple of months.
We thought it would be nice to have a database to keep track of all these maps. And since all the large existing databases (TLPD, SC2ranks, etc) seemed to focus more on statistics and numbers, we ended up making our own, with all the map relevant information:
www.sc2melee.net
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/BaiQw.jpg)
We are still working on adding advanced search/filtering/sorting options and other features, but we felt now would be a good time to begin public beta and get first user ratings on the maps (To avoid manipulation, you must register to vote).
We are look forward to hearing your feedback!
Edit 1: To all the people interested in playing some community maps, please join the ingame channel ‘MeleeMapTesting’ in Wings of Liberty or the group ‘Melee Mapmaking' in Heart of the Swarm Beta to find other players!
(ProTip: leave some replays on drop.sc or a similar site to make mapmakers happy  )
Edit 2: If you are running a tournament and looking for map pool additions, we strongly recommend double checking the maps to make sure they are updated/available on the required server and/or getting in touch with the map authors to avoid any trouble! Some of the information provided on this website might not be up to date!
Edit 3: Follow https://twitter.com/sc2meleenet on Twitter if you'd like to be informed about any new map additions to the database!
Now please go and check out sc2melee.net!
Or go directly to the map list at sc2melee.net/maps/
hf!
|
|
|
This is awesome! I love when a community comes together and does cool shit for the rest of us. Makes me feel lazy :> but this is something definitely desired, and hopefully will become a useful and relied upon tool in the future.
It looks great and seems easy to navigate - i'm not lost at all, and all the relevant information seems to be at hand without any work! Well done gentlemen, well done.
A few notes, though:
From what it seems, there's just one aggregate score for each map - do you plan on giving a map multiple rating categories, such as design vs balance vs aesthetics or something like that? Or some kind of weighted ranking system for users in which users' feedback on maps (maybe in just one category like balance) are weighted by their relative rank on b.net?
I just don't want the system to be bogged down by inaccurate or un-informed ratings 
Again, awesome work. This kinda stuff (almost) makes me want to switch from C++/C# to web design. :>
|
I think multiple categories of voting is definitely a good idea, but there are many concerns. First, 'balance' is a bad category because nobody voting on these maps will analyze them for enough time to really get a good idea how the balance plays out. Second, aesthetics are impossible to judge without closeup/ingame shots which the site does not have (yet).
I would like to see integrated tournament results for maps
|
It's finally live! :o
EDIT: Making this post less garbage. Anywho, I think the wording of the rating system could be more standardized instead of using words like "fixable" (what does this really mean for the average user?). I already provided my feedback in the TL mapmaker chat. Hopefully you read it lefix. ^^;;
|
On December 16 2012 06:34 wrl wrote:
I think multiple categories of voting is definitely a good idea, but there are many concerns. First, 'balance' is a bad category because nobody voting on these maps will analyze them for enough time to really get a good idea how the balance plays out. Second, aesthetics are impossible to judge without closeup/ingame shots which the site does not have (yet).
Yeah, and with constant metagame and patch changes, the level of balance for a map changes over time.
Nice to see this brought to the public. I was hesitant to spread the word about it before, but now I'll encourage people to rate the maps. Especially when there's so much discussion going on all over the place about proleague maps.
|
Great initiative, I hope Blizz takes a look at this
|
I'd also like to ask everyone to be reasonable when rating maps. This isn't Reddit where you up and downvote maps by giving them 10s and 1s. Although I won't stop anyone from doing so. I cannot tell anyone what they must like
|
Looks awesome!
But it would be cool if you could change your vote for a map, if you missclicked on the bar.
|
It would be nice to be able to sort the map list by more than just rating. At least sorting based on release would be good.
Does sc2melee have a twitter? Actually, it would be cool to have something that tweeted whenever a new map was added.
|
On December 16 2012 06:54 ulfryc wrote:
Looks awesome!
But it would be cool if you could change your vote for a map, if you missclicked on the bar.
That's something we are also working on. That feature is supposed to be included in in the next update of the rating plugin we are using. However that update has been long overdue 
Hopefully we can add it ourselves somehow.
|
On December 16 2012 06:54 ulfryc wrote:
Looks awesome!
But it would be cool if you could change your vote for a map, if you missclicked on the bar.
This feature will be coming with a future update. I'm the web designer/developer that worked with lefix on the site, really happy it's finally been released :D
EDIT : Beaten to the punch!
|
great work, i hope its used when tournaments choose maps
|
On December 16 2012 06:58 Gfire wrote:
It would be nice to be able to sort the map list by more than just rating. At least sorting based on release would be good.
Does sc2melee have a twitter? Actually, it would be cool to have something that tweeted whenever a new map was added.
That's actually a nice idea! I went ahead and created a new twitter account: https://twitter.com/sc2meleenet
On the other thing. Currently you can only sort maps by rating or the order they were added. We have however many more search/filtering options planned. Like showing only maps of a particular mapmaker or a only maps published on NA server, etc.
You'll also be able to display only 1v1, 4 player or hots maps or whatever you are looking for.
But for now you can only use the Standard search, which already let's you search for a particular mapmakers, or team (i.e. search for "ESV" to find all ESV maps)
Long story short: We still have lots of work ahead of us
|
|
|
On December 16 2012 06:34 wrl wrote:
I think multiple categories of voting is definitely a good idea, but there are many concerns. First, 'balance' is a bad category because nobody voting on these maps will analyze them for enough time to really get a good idea how the balance plays out. Second, aesthetics are impossible to judge without closeup/ingame shots which the site does not have (yet).
I would like to see integrated tournament results for maps
With weighted votes, the effect could be mitigated - and plus, in every TL map thread that gets decent hits, the main concern is always openness, availability of thirds, etc - which are all balance oriented concerns. I think it would work fine, especially if it's not the sole determining category.
Perhaps not balance, then, just racial favoring? We know some maps are better for some races than others, and coupled with the mentioned ability to change your vote later, it could work.
It also could fail, that's true. But at least multiple categories would differentiate votes from being high because of extraneous things like looks while taking no consideration on balance, or vice versa.
|
Lefix this page is Awesome!!! i really hope this gives the mapmakers an edge to make their maps more known ^^!!
|
On December 16 2012 10:33 Killcycle wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 06:34 wrl wrote:
I think multiple categories of voting is definitely a good idea, but there are many concerns. First, 'balance' is a bad category because nobody voting on these maps will analyze them for enough time to really get a good idea how the balance plays out. Second, aesthetics are impossible to judge without closeup/ingame shots which the site does not have (yet).
I would like to see integrated tournament results for maps With weighted votes, the effect could be mitigated - and plus, in every TL map thread that gets decent hits, the main concern is always openness, availability of thirds, etc - which are all balance oriented concerns. I think it would work fine, especially if it's not the sole determining category. Perhaps not balance, then, just racial favoring? We know some maps are better for some races than others, and coupled with the mentioned ability to change your vote later, it could work. It also could fail, that's true. But at least multiple categories would differentiate votes from being high because of extraneous things like looks while taking no consideration on balance, or vice versa.
I guess in theory it'd be nice to have seperate ratings for balance, visuals, etc. But quality in general is hard to rate except for a handful maps that you are already familiar with (aka have seen the map ingame).
I like to think of the ratings more of a popularity vote, which is also interesting to see. And it's alot more fun to look through the list when you can rate maps at the same time :D
|
On December 16 2012 11:07 lefix wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 10:33 Killcycle wrote:On December 16 2012 06:34 wrl wrote:
I think multiple categories of voting is definitely a good idea, but there are many concerns. First, 'balance' is a bad category because nobody voting on these maps will analyze them for enough time to really get a good idea how the balance plays out. Second, aesthetics are impossible to judge without closeup/ingame shots which the site does not have (yet).
I would like to see integrated tournament results for maps With weighted votes, the effect could be mitigated - and plus, in every TL map thread that gets decent hits, the main concern is always openness, availability of thirds, etc - which are all balance oriented concerns. I think it would work fine, especially if it's not the sole determining category. Perhaps not balance, then, just racial favoring? We know some maps are better for some races than others, and coupled with the mentioned ability to change your vote later, it could work. It also could fail, that's true. But at least multiple categories would differentiate votes from being high because of extraneous things like looks while taking no consideration on balance, or vice versa. I guess in theory it'd be nice to have seperate ratings for balance, visuals, etc. But quality in general is hard to rate except for a handful maps that you are already familiar with (aka have seen the map ingame). I like to think of the ratings more of a popularity vote, which is also interesting to see. And it's alot more fun to look through the list when you can rate maps at the same time :D
You want people to submit replays, yes? Make it a requirement to submit a replay before rating on balance? Hahaha
I jest. (mostly?)
I guess I'm just a data guy - I love having different things to search and categorize by.
|
So awesome! I was waiting for something like this! I love maps but I feel maps sometimes don't get the love they deserve from the community as a whole. I'm glad that now, thanks to you sir, they will.
|
|
|
|
|
yay! This is awesome! GJ Guys
|
|
|
Australia822 Posts
Really good to see this go public! Looks like my map is back in the top 10 haha.
|
A few interesting observations I have made so far:
Let me start by explaining that most of the initual ratings were done exclusively by 10-20 people from the mapmaking community, before the official announcement. The mapmaking community has quite a different opinion on most maps compared to the rest of the community. Since the announcement...
... people have shown their support for the new KeSPA maps, (which most mapmakers have been very critical of). This shows that the community appreciates seeing new maps in circulation.
... many of the established maps are struggling (Ohana 5.2, Antiga Shipyard 3.5, Entombed Valley 4.1, etc.)
... people are generally very critical of Blizzard maps. Most of them are at the bottom of the list. Akilon Wastes is currently the highest rated Blizzard map with a 5.6 rating.
... many people are being d**** who in order to push a map they like will give all surrounding maps 1s.
Maps that enter the top rated list are the most common victims of downvoting. That's also the reason why there are only few entries reaching higher ratings. (Cloud Kingdom seems to be the only map the community can agree on)
I once again would like to ask everyone to be reasonable when rating maps!
|
Nice initiative... I checked out the site, its nice...
I feel bad for all those map makers that probably have made really great maps but never discovered..
However, I sat for a few hours today in the chat channel on eu... alone.. I was ready to test maps but nobody showed..
|
On December 16 2012 21:56 MagnuMizer wrote:
Nice initiative... I checked out the site, its nice...
I feel bad for all those map makers that probably have made really great maps but never discovered..
However, I sat for a few hours today in the chat channel on eu... alone.. I was ready to test maps but nobody showed..
Well at a point you have to make a choice : do you make maps or do you play ? Not enough time TT
|
Just a bit of constructive criticism. Your rating scale explanation should be more prominent on the home page just so people are aware that a 10 doesn't/shouldn't actually exist.
|
|
|
Grats to the beginnign of a conclussion of this feat!
I didnt know about drop.dc but really, anythign dropped there just drowns. Maps coudl have external links to replays as well, so that we coudl add links directly to the replays
|
|
|
On December 16 2012 21:50 lefix wrote:
... people have shown their support for the new KeSPA maps, (which most mapmakers have been very critical of). This shows that the community appreciates seeing new maps in circulation.
... many of the established maps are struggling (Ohana 5.2, Antiga Shipyard 3.5, Entombed Valley 4.1, etc.)
... people are generally very critical of Blizzard maps. Most of them are at the bottom of the list. Akilon Wastes is currently the highest rated Blizzard map with a 5.6 rating.
... many people are being d**** who in order to push a map they like will give all surrounding maps 1s.
Maps that enter the top rated list are the most common victims of downvoting. That's also the reason why there are only few entries reaching higher ratings. (Cloud Kingdom seems to be the only map the community can agree on)
I once again would like to ask everyone to be reasonable when rating maps!
While I think people do like seeing new maps, and also therefore downvote the ones they're sick of like Antiga, I think there's actually a lot of love for the kespa maps specifically. Not just because they are new, but because they bring a lot of fresh gameplay and are actually quite well made. Arkanoid and Bifrost are the most well executed maps I've ever seen in SC2 by far, so I don't understand what all the criticism from the map makers is about. Maybe I'm getting a bit off topic, though.
On December 16 2012 22:36 Vindicare605 wrote:
Just a bit of constructive criticism. Your rating scale explanation should be more prominent on the home page just so people are aware that a 10 doesn't/shouldn't actually exist.
While the users aught to be able to utilize the entire scale, I think it's impossible for a map to reach a level like that without having extensive use in tournaments. Kind of a sticky situation since most of these maps haven't.
|
Cool stuff! I like the site. Hope it gets some use.
|
|
|
Really like the layout of the website. Very clean and looking good. Props!
|
Some of my assumptions might be wrong since this is based on reverse engineering on the outside and not very thorough so correct me if I'm wrong on how you did it internally but ehh, some constructive criticism here:
- Database model you used does not seem to be properly scalable, it seems like every map just has vital data such as map author as text field. You absolutely want to give each author an numerical id as well as for future proofness make it possible to list multiple authors. People want to be able to click on authors and see what other maps they made as well, you also later might want to add small profiles for authors as well as allow people to rate an entire author. (reverse id 0 for unknown author of course in case you run into difficult people such as I =))
- - Mapmaking teams seem to be part of the title in the database, again, do not do this, give each mapmaking team a numerical ID in the database and automatically add the tag, make it possible to click on the tag of the team to go to a page which lists every map by the team. Of course also list the current team of every author where available in the database.
- Allow the addition of tags for easier searching, allow users to tag maps with basically whatever they want so people can search on tags
- It might be smart to investigate turning it into a wiki, perhaps with moderation approval where the community can edit stuff to speed the process up.
- Links to replays and vods and allow people to rate the games on it.
- 2v2, 3v3, 4v4 and FFA section
|
There are definitely improvements that can be made -- and we can trust lefix to make them. This does not diminish the capability and impact that this new database will have on the starcraft community I think.
|
On December 18 2012 00:37 SigmaFiE wrote:
There are definitely improvements that can be made -- and we can trust lefix to make them. This does not diminish the capability and impact that this new database will have on the starcraft community I think. I'm not sure if the long-term viability of building such a thing on a wordpress engine though. Wordpress wasn't really made with this in mind.
Almost feel like creating a generic CMS for a wiki based compendium about a certain subject if no such thing is yet available. It's been a while since I poisoned my mind with PHP.
|
This sounds like a really good initiative that should be supported more!
|
Bump for justice, using the justice hammer. The hammer is not my fist. 2 internets cookie points for first person to get reference.
On December 17 2012 03:10 Gfire wrote:While I think people do like seeing new maps, and also therefore downvote the ones they're sick of like Antiga, I think there's actually a lot of love for the kespa maps specifically. Not just because they are new, but because they bring a lot of fresh gameplay and are actually quite well made. Arkanoid and Bifrost are the most well executed maps I've ever seen in SC2 by far, so I don't understand what all the criticism from the map makers is about. Maybe I'm getting a bit off topic, though. Show nested quote +On December 16 2012 22:36 Vindicare605 wrote:
Just a bit of constructive criticism. Your rating scale explanation should be more prominent on the home page just so people are aware that a 10 doesn't/shouldn't actually exist. While the users aught to be able to utilize the entire scale, I think it's impossible for a map to reach a level like that without having extensive use in tournaments. Kind of a sticky situation since most of these maps haven't.
Off topic response: + Show Spoiler +New maps of course bring fresh gameplay. And the love for the Kespa maps is contextually correct due to them being fresh in contrast to the previous scenarios. However, I would not by any means declare them as the most well executed maps in SC2. They are not original and build off of concepts dating back to BW when highground advantage meant something without having to actually force a highground advantage like Arkanoid and Bitfrost do. Different games.
The criticism from mapmakers has to do, at the heart of it, with the community's reaction to these maps which are nothing more then re-hashes of old maps/concepts (well done as they are) as opposed to the ones that they can view everyday in our subforum that are not -- and now thankfully can rest in all their esteem on this wonderful new website. I'm sure if you recall back to your days before ESV gave you support you will recall the difficulties of promoting a map not only to regular players, but for testing purposes and for tournament purposes as well. Sc2melee gives mapmakers some more control, some more exposure, and the community now has a grand opportunity to educate themselves on the sheer amount of maps that have been produced for their entertainment.
On topic response: As for the rating scale, it is appropriate for the ratings system to be a little sticky as you do not want people who vote with 1's or 10's only completely destroying the values of all other votes placed on a single map. The popup window that accompanies the scales should suffice as an explanation to the user -- but perhaps a better front page key is in order to more readily draw a users attention. Furthermore, perhaps these maps will begin to see the daylight now that they have a true home that the entire community can refer to.
|
Off topic response: + Show Spoiler +New maps of course bring fresh gameplay. And the love for the Kespa maps is contextually correct due to them being fresh in contrast to the previous scenarios. However, I would not by any means declare them as the most well executed maps in SC2. They are not original and build off of concepts dating back to BW when highground advantage meant something without having to actually force a highground advantage like Arkanoid and Bitfrost do. Different games.
The criticism from mapmakers has to do, at the heart of it, with the community's reaction to these maps which are nothing more then re-hashes of old maps/concepts (well done as they are) as opposed to the ones that they can view everyday in our subforum that are not -- and now thankfully can rest in all their esteem on this wonderful new website. I'm sure if you recall back to your days before ESV gave you support you will recall the difficulties of promoting a map not only to regular players, but for testing purposes and for tournament purposes as well. Sc2melee gives mapmakers some more control, some more exposure, and the community now has a grand opportunity to educate themselves on the sheer amount of maps that have been produced for their entertainment.
You're talking about concepts, though, not execution. Off off topic, though: the concepts might not be the best for SC2, but I don't understand what you're saying about high ground advantage. Those are BW maps which don't really rely on high ground advantage at all. Bifrost has a low ground main and would theoretically be more broken with more highground advantage, and Arkanoid is pretty much flat.
Brifrost isn't the most well executed in some ways, just related to experience in the sc2 editor. Geyser placements and cliff shaping and textures looks like someone new to the sc2 editor, but the decision making around the hallways on Bifrost or the creep structures on Arkanoid... those things are done quite well, and that's what I meant for execution.
Don't get me wrong though, this is quite a tangent and I wasn't meaning to say that the other maps on sc2melee or other community maps should get less attention just because of the proleague maps. I agree that they should get lots of attention. Recently we've reached a pretty good level of quality in the community maps and there's a number of good ones there. Lacking perhaps in execution due to lack of testing compared to the proleague maps I would say, but if the maps get played on a lot, then the mappers can start tweaking them and tuning them up.
So hopefully people won't just rate the maps, but will look for them on bnet and play them as well, and hopefully give feedback and replays.
Still, a rating that reflects the community's reaction to maps, even just first impressions, is quite valuable as well.
Um, I'm wondering... Would it be good to have some kind of minimum number of votes before a map is listed at the top? Like, require 10 ratings for a map to show up, maybe? They could appear in the map list with a disclaimer saying they haven't been rated much and they could not show up on the front page.
|
I'm wondering where all you find maps to add to the database? It seems like all the ones posted on TL, and a bunch from the Crux site were just added.
But here are two Korean sites I usually check for maps:
PlayXP Map Section
Intothe map - Melee/SC2 section
|
|
|
Yeah this was really needed.
I was so happy when I saw this thread! :D
Good job!
|
Bump.
The site went down sometime around last week. I would like to know if there is anyway I could help regarding keeping the site updated and running, I consider sc2melee to be very important to relaying people into the work the community mapmakers have done across the years.
So yeah GFire, Sigma, Lefix, or anyone else if somebody has info in how I could be of help to the site I would love to hear it (Yes I realize that it is a lot of work).
|
Wow I can't believe I never saw this before. I'd be interested in keeping it going as well, it seems like a super interesting tool.
Edit: Actually yeah now that I know this exists I need it. I hope someone can shed some light on this.
|
I don't think it's been updated in a good while even before it went down, and the ratings are honestly obsolete now that we know more about the game, but if someone could get it back up and be active about updating it it would be really great
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
