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On December 06 2012 03:41 MonkSEA wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 03:31 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 06 2012 03:15 Nuf wrote:On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote:
Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case. Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down. If he was wrong, then wouldn't at least their SC2 team still be operating? Or are you saying all their non-SC2 ventures dragged SC2 down with them? I think you might be the one who needs to re-read. He's right that success with SC2 isn't easy or automatic. Even though there are opportunities, there are still a lot of tough decisions to make and hard work to do and not just anyone can try to go into business in the SC2 scene and be successful. It's the same everywhere. Most will fail and most who make it will just stay afloat. A minority of all possible ventures will see significant longterm gains. You actually might need to re-read as well, apparently the funding to the team was cut off without anyone knowing anything. Pretty sure that's not indicative of SC2 dieing, or any other esport title dieing, it is bad management. No way can you run a team with a few top level players without any money. They seemed to do pretty well before when they had exposure, but now since they don't have exposure, and didn't even try to put themselves onto the market they're forced into nothing.
The funding being pulled out is the point. If it isn't generating a profit then investors don't keep putting money into it. In this economy it needs to be a pretty good investment to get investors. This type of thing is common. If the game is not generating interest etc. then it will be specifically SC2 teams dying. I just think Quantic's closing shows how fragile the E-sports market is in general. When you look at events like LOL Championships, etc.. you see what a good business venture can offer. People in this community always focused on THE GAME, and they don't realize it's all about the money. No return = no investment.
To clarify, I am not talking about the death of E-sports. I'm saying it doesn't happen just because you have good players or an abundance of sponsors RIGHT NOW even. Its fragile, and the community, and the leaders in it need to understand the ramifications of that.
To further clarify, if their SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
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Most of the so called "Teams" of the current SC2 Scene are amateurs and don't have a clue about what it actually takes to run a successful organization in the long term and earn consistent income as a company. Because that's what they are, an organizational company based on driving income from their players, and if you look at statistics regarding company startups 25-50% of them fail after one year. After the second year additional 36% fails, and during the third year 44% of those who still remain also fails. Of those who still operate after four years there still is a failure rate between 37 to 58% depending on what industry you are in.
Regardless of the outcome or success of the SC2 scene we would still see allot of failures, even in the IT industry during the IT bubble when people were throwing money at any company claiming to be in IT there was still an overall 50% long term failure rate for that particular industry.
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To further clarify, if there SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
This is basically it, Quantic failed at some point in its operations to monetize the team in a manner that would compensate investors. Whether through streaming, tournament performance or just over extension It isn't terribly complicated.
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On December 06 2012 03:50 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 03:41 MonkSEA wrote:On December 06 2012 03:31 Liquid`NonY wrote:On December 06 2012 03:15 Nuf wrote:On December 06 2012 03:00 LiquidSlick wrote:
Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. Just because some people on certain teams get raises, or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth. Not fostering the growth of non-Korean teams, accepting the faults of SC2, and pushing Blizzard could result in a niche market for SC2.
I hope that isn't the case. Might want to re-read. It's their whole team, not only the SC2 part that's closing down. If he was wrong, then wouldn't at least their SC2 team still be operating? Or are you saying all their non-SC2 ventures dragged SC2 down with them? I think you might be the one who needs to re-read. He's right that success with SC2 isn't easy or automatic. Even though there are opportunities, there are still a lot of tough decisions to make and hard work to do and not just anyone can try to go into business in the SC2 scene and be successful. It's the same everywhere. Most will fail and most who make it will just stay afloat. A minority of all possible ventures will see significant longterm gains. You actually might need to re-read as well, apparently the funding to the team was cut off without anyone knowing anything. Pretty sure that's not indicative of SC2 dieing, or any other esport title dieing, it is bad management. No way can you run a team with a few top level players without any money. They seemed to do pretty well before when they had exposure, but now since they don't have exposure, and didn't even try to put themselves onto the market they're forced into nothing. What am I re-reading exactly? The fact that the investors lost faith in the venture doesn't have bearing on the arguments you've quoted. I don't know why you are talking about SC2 dying. We haven't been talking about SC2 dying. We've been talking about whether or not doing business in SC2 means automatic success. This whole "you need to re-read" line is getting old but really you ought to re-read what LiquidSlick wrote. His first sentence is key here: Show nested quote +Maybe this will be a wake up call to those preaching the inevitable success of SC2. He's addressing the people with their head in the clouds who think that any old group of people who aren't complete idiots and have an ounce of motivation can get into the SC2 esports business and be successful. He's not talking about SC2 dying. He's just denying the ideas of the irrationally optimistic people who think this whole thing is a big money-grab.
It's this part that suggests something different though:
or people that work for Twitch say the numbers are fine, doesn't mean it's the truth.
I think he's talking about DJ Wheat there. Wheat was talking about all Twich's streaming numbers, not SC2's. This was one of the big misunderstandings of the recent itg drama.
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sad for some players. since some of them wont find a new team i bet.
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NOOOOO SASEEEEE 
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I was referring to that yes, but in a more general sense. It doesn't undercut my point about people preaching the inevitable success of SC2 though. My main point is this: The scene for SC2 needs to be thought of as extremely fragile. Good decisions, good opportunities, and a good game are all important. Good players do not make a successful team.
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On December 06 2012 04:03 mcdoobyland wrote:NOOOOO SASEEEEE
Liquid'SaSe mcdoobyland, Liquid'Sase. 
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On December 06 2012 04:06 LiquidSlick wrote:
I was referring to that yes, but in a more general sense. It doesn't undercut my point about people preaching the inevitable success of SC2 though. My main point is this: The scene for SC2 needs to be thought of as extremely fragile. Good decisions, good opportunities, and a good game are all important. Good players do not make a successful team.
It doesn't but I understand why he replyed what he did because of that part.
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Hope the players find a new team soon!
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That's a goddamn shame. I hope none of the players suffer because of it.
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This is disappointing . I hope all transitions go as smooth a possible, too bad quantic couldn't stay open :/.
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So many great players! This team had so much potential ;_;
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On December 06 2012 03:53 LiquidSlick wrote:
To further clarify, if their SC2 team was the HUGE profitable and growing endeavor... its not like investors would just back out.
That's a false argument. Investors can (and often do) stop backing up ventures because they think it's not going to be worth it now or in the long term. Basically there is little logic in the world of venture capitalism, and it's not because a company is profitable that it is profitable enough to be invested in.
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Quantic got overshadowed by bigger teams, Acer, EG, Liquid.
If I was Illusion I would like to join Axiom, he would be a beautiful fit for what they are doing over there.
Sase should be the new coach of Vile.
Flo should join the new EG/Liquid merger so they have a female to compete with Acer.
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On December 06 2012 03:57 Integra wrote:
Most of the so called "Teams" of the current SC2 Scene are amateurs and don't have a clue about what it actually takes to run a successful organization in the long term and earn consistent income as a company. Because that's what they are, an organizational company based on driving income from their players, and if you look at statistics regarding company startups 25-50% of them fail after one year. After the second year additional 36% fails, and during the third year 44% of those who still remain also fails. Of those who still operate after four years there still is a failure rate between 37 to 58% depending on what industry you are in.
Regardless of the outcome or success of the SC2 scene we would still see allot of failures, even in the IT industry during the IT bubble when people were throwing money at any company claiming to be in IT there was still an overall 50% long term failure rate for that particular industry.
That's actually a very good point, I guess SCII scene is not immune to it, still sad about the disbanding
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Sad news. But it seems to be the way things are trending.
I don't think esports will grow as big as a lot of people thought it could be. At least, not in the next ten years. The money isn't there to support all the SC2 teams and tournaments that exist right now, and its only going to keep shrinking. I'm not expecting the SC2 scene to die, I just think its going to have to shed a lot of weight. But there is nothing wrong with a lean focused scene, in my opinion. Having fewer teams and fewer tournaments makes each event more meaningful and exciting.
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This so sad, one of the better e-sports team....
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EPT
