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Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere in this thread but it looks like the big deal for Raven is not the first Raven with HSM but the second.
Assuming you have a tech lab Starport. Your first Raven pops at 60s with 50 energy. It then takes and additional 134 seconds to hit 125 for your first HSM.
Before the buff you would have spent the that time researching HSM. Now you can spend the 150/150 you would've on HSM on the Corvid reactor.
With this your second Raven pops 60s after the first but with 75 energy and only 8 energy behind the first Raven.
This means about 15s after the first HSM arms the second Raven will have an HSM. This saves both time an resources.
2 HSMs at 3:28 after Raven production starts and an extra 150/150 is definitely better than 2 HSM at 4:12.
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On December 07 2012 08:48 DrLOAC wrote:
Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere in this thread but it looks like the big deal for Raven is not the first Raven with HSM but the second.
Assuming you have a tech lab Starport. Your first Raven pops at 60s with 50 energy. It then takes and additional 134 seconds to hit 125 for your first HSM.
Before the buff you would have spent the that time researching HSM. Now you can spend the 150/150 you would've on HSM on the Corvid reactor.
With this your second Raven pops 60s after the first but with 75 energy and only 8 energy behind the first Raven.
This means about 15s after the first HSM arms the second Raven will have an HSM. This saves both time an resources.
2 HSMs at 3:28 after Raven production starts and an extra 150/150 is definitely better than 2 HSM at 4:12.
I hadn't tried that (or looked at the math). I've just been going Banshee + corvid reactor followed by my 1st raven... (or JUST 1 raven).
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2230 Posts
On December 06 2012 06:29 MyNameIsAlex wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 06:18 Ghend wrote:
Proof that blizzard listens, but are frustratingly slow to act. Looking forward to see less infestors. Maybe it'll make pvz more interesting. PvZ atm is 52% in P favor. (there is a thread with all the major tournaments from Sep till yesterday). Its a stupid matchup though, either the P wins with soul, or they die to deathball. I hope the inf change does not affect PvZ alot. Blizz is clueless atm, if they nerf the inf too much zerg is going to dissapear from results, if they keep it this way TvZ is near impossible. All this due to bad race design. Oh and the PvZ... yeah thats not a real matchup for the reasons stated first thing in the post. All in all: Zerg design sucks. This is the main problem. And because Zerg had to have a way to win, Blizz buffed the infestor leading to the current situation.
Main problem is the fact Zerg early game is bad (at doing anything but trying to defend cheese and all ins) and late game is too strong. (That's how vZ is - P or T tries to all in or cheese the Zerg to win, Zerg tries to defend for that win.)
Somehow even that up and Zerg is fine (on paper anyway >.>).
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On December 07 2012 08:48 DrLOAC wrote:
Not sure if this has been covered elsewhere in this thread but it looks like the big deal for Raven is not the first Raven with HSM but the second.
Assuming you have a tech lab Starport. Your first Raven pops at 60s with 50 energy. It then takes and additional 134 seconds to hit 125 for your first HSM.
Before the buff you would have spent the that time researching HSM. Now you can spend the 150/150 you would've on HSM on the Corvid reactor.
With this your second Raven pops 60s after the first but with 75 energy and only 8 energy behind the first Raven.
This means about 15s after the first HSM arms the second Raven will have an HSM. This saves both time an resources.
2 HSMs at 3:28 after Raven production starts and an extra 150/150 is definitely better than 2 HSM at 4:12.
Nice  I hate when people seem to claim that the buff does nothing, when it really does. It's not hugely significant but anything small helps.
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The buff doesn't make ravens effective. Which was the issue.
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On December 06 2012 16:24 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
The patch is an utter joke. Played 3 games vs a friend and he didn't even realize the patch was in effect. High masters btw so not noob games T_T.
This is the first post that ever made sense. I just keep going double upgrades and infestor and kill stuff just the same as before.
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On December 07 2012 15:21 Discarder wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2012 16:24 ionlyplayPROtoss wrote:
The patch is an utter joke. Played 3 games vs a friend and he didn't even realize the patch was in effect. High masters btw so not noob games T_T. This is the first post that ever made sense. I just keep going double upgrades and infestor and kill stuff just the same as before.
Forcefields zone out infestors a lot better during mid game fights.
HT vs Infestor is a bit different.
In most real games it plays out exactly the same in zvp however.
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Terrans, life is a bit more bearable now. Stay in for the long haul people, it will get good. Unless TERRIBLE TERRIBLE damage makes a return.
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On December 07 2012 14:43 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2012 13:38 Zombo Joe wrote:
The buff doesn't make ravens effective. Which was the issue. I think it does. Now Raven viking becomes anti-colossus in TvP, possibly Raven only. In any case, a lot less supply must be wasted on air in that matchup. Same goes for TvZ. An early Raven transition works better now when vikings doesn't have to be massed up in order to face the first wave of broodlords. 1 HSM kills off 1 broodlord, it's an almost sure thing that it will go off and hit. It will also become the tank sniper in TvT.
This is WoL, not HoTS.
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I look at this patch and see a cautious step towards trying to bring the infestor down a few notches but nothing too extreme - now infestors can't lob 30 beach balls without at least SOME prior thinking, whereas before they could just ram everything they have down a Terran's throat and he usually had to give up that position. Not to mention if trends continue then they can just continue beating the festor with the nerf bat until everyone is happy.. 
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Is it me or is PvZ a lot easier?
My 3 base colossus timing that I usually do seems to work very well now, whereas before it was stopped pretty easily by infestors. Another thing is those crazy infested terran+roach attacks on the third, where I would almost always be guaranteed to lose my third, now I can defend it pretty well. I'm a mid masters P, so I'm wondering if I'm just getting lucky or this is happening for other P players.
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That patch nerfed infestor more than people realize.
-Now it feels to me that protoss late game - carriers, high templars, few colossi, few else beats easily bl, infestor, corruptor, queens, crawlers.
-Now High tempars are the better by far choice for P mid game instead of collossi - for taking 3rd and before brood lord pushes.
-Infestors cant fungal terran armies anymore stimmed marauder(almost), siege tanks, thors - get a hit everytime if the fungal is aimed on top of them - with the idea to catch a few units behind - as before.
-Terran pushes with siege tanks much easier - the rate of terran pushes is determined by (siege tank range) - (fungal range)
-ZvZ got simplified a lot - I feel the muta to infestor switch got huge nerf - it is almost impossible to hold 2 base roach-hydra with +1/1
-Every fungal cast in roach hydra vs roach hydra battles costs 75energy and the infestor's life.
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Congratulations Terrans you now have a fighting chance vs Zerg!
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still don't think any foreign terran will have any notable results.
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On December 08 2012 04:06 truegaymer wrote:
still don't think any foreign terran will have any notable results.
Not much time to prove themselves before HoTs anyway.
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On December 08 2012 04:01 Ewok wrote:
Congratulations Terrans you now have a fighting chance vs Zerg!
Actually its still the same as before.
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On December 08 2012 04:35 Zombo Joe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 04:01 Ewok wrote:
Congratulations Terrans you now have a fighting chance vs Zerg! Actually its still the same as before.
Ghosts are a pretty good unit.
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On December 08 2012 04:35 Zombo Joe wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 04:01 Ewok wrote:
Congratulations Terrans you now have a fighting chance vs Zerg! Actually its still the same as before.
It's way too soon to declare this with any amount of certainty, and given the impending release of HotS, we'll probably never see how this patch ultimately affects TvZ. Chances are if the winrates don't return within 45/55 in a month Blizzard will follow up with one more nerf, and at that point it doesn't really matter anyways, as again, if it isn't an immensely drastic nerf it won't immediately alter the win rates.
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EPT
