Howdy there and welcome to the top 50 streamers list thread for this month!
Huh? What's this?
For those of you who don't already know what this is about: I'm gathering various data from all the streams that are presented on teamliquid.net (viewers, game, events, etc.) and use that data to produce the pretty tables you see below. The tables only contain SC2 players (that is, people streaming games of Starcraft 2 being played by themselves) and not casters, teams or other streams. The tables also only contain Starcraft 2 related activities, a SC2 streamer streaming Dota2 or other games is not being taken into account.
For live stream data, go and visit soiii's site http://sc2streamnumbers.com/ where you can check out detailed graphs of stream viewers of every stream. (Thread here). Please check it out, it's pretty awesome. I thought about doing something like that at some point, but soiii did it way better and prettier than I could've ever done.
The list
Due to space limitations, I have to shorten the headers and leave some data out of the tables presented here. You can get the full tables from the links below. The headers aren't as clear as I'd like them to be thanks to this, so here's a quick explanation, just in case: "Viewers" denotes the average viewers in the given month. "Hours" are the hours played. "Place diff" and "Viewer diff" are the place and viewer differences compared to last month. And "HotS%" is the percentage of Heart of the Swarm streaming compared to Wings of Liberty. A full green bar means the player streamed only HotS, a grey bar means he only streamed WoL.
Now, Without further ado, here's this month's tables:
(The actual numbers are not important, so ignore the y axis numbers. It's the ratio between month that's important.)
There's a clear downwards trend in overall numbers, but I wouldn't interpret too much into it. Two months ago we had the HotS beta to blame. A good portion of people switched over to watching streamers play the beta, and when the players went back to play the game they're getting paid for, the viewers didn't follow. Last month we had a large number of huge tournaments (MLG, WCS, IEM, Dreamhack..), and they are most likely to blame for the lack of player stream viewers. The numbers for the next few months will be more telling.
Some stray observations
Koreans! Polt, MarineKing and Bomber, among others, were all streaming again some last month. They got pretty decent numbers, too, all things considered.
Well, sort of. MarineKing's stream currently consists of English commentary of MKP replays, not live games being played by him. It's an interesting concept, and it doesn't seem to hurt the viewer numbers at all.
Speaking of interesting concepts, Weedamins has one, too: Leave the stream on while sleeping. At least that's what happened when I checked his stream. He still had about 100 viewers at the time, which is quite impressive, considering that there was nothing to actually watch. I don't know if that's a regular thing or not, but it certainly would explain the insane hours.
Looks like the EG guys took last month's suggestion to heart. Idra, Incontrol, Machine and LzGaMeR all streamed lots of HotS last month. MorroW went back to streaming SC2, though, losing some viewers int he process.
Congratulations to Turuk for being the only non-featured streamer (apart from the ever-present Taiwanese player Hui) to make it on the viewer number list.
Destiny barely made it into the list with 5 hours of SC2 content this month. That's down from 137 hours from the month before. Looks like he's serious about his switch to LoL.
Some notable absentees this month: Stephano (), Grubby, Apollo, Ret, DIMAGA, LucifroN, RotterdaM, VortiX.
Well, That's all I can think of for now. Hope you guys enjoyed!
Thanks again, always interesting. That being said i agree there were too many tournaments, which made people watch way less player streams. But the downtrend is still there anyway but i'm certain it'll go upwards again when HotS is really out. Gonna take a while though.
I have a feeling that 2013 will see a different trend. the lowest point will probably be right before HotS, and then it should go up. I'm not too worried in general about numbers though, Starcraft 2 is still a huge e-sport, and IPL5 has really shown that tournaments are still progressing which is great. nice post though
On December 03 2012 00:12 Jamial wrote: Can this be done for LoL too? :O
Yes and no.
I only gather data from teamliquid.net at the moment, that is, all the streams that you can find at http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/ . That list contains practically every single SC2 stream out there, but that's not true for LoL (or Dota2). So I could give you only a very incomplete picture of all the LoL streams that bothered to register with teamlliquid.
I considered gathering data in a similar way from http://www.solomid.net/, but haven't yet bothered to do so, since I'm not much of an LoL guy, and I'm not part of that community. I am also thinking about doing a similar list for Dota2, now that TL.net officially covers it. So far, though, there are not even enough streams listed to make a proper "top 50" list. I also do not know how big a percentage of the Dota2 streams out there have registered with TL.net.
I hope that the Startale players stream more in the coming year. I think Bomber and Parting should have a lot of new fans and potential viewers given how they've been playing lately.
On December 02 2012 21:45 Psyclon wrote: The numbers are dropping like crazy. Not so long ago Idra's stream was regularly peaking over 10k.
The total number is a little bit misleading, they have removed Destiny, who was almost always number one total because he switched to LoL. He is still doing the same amount or more streaming but just a different game.
Hui hours numbers are fucking scary ( btw i think you added a day to the month for your math JustPassingBy , it's 6h57 on average, not that it makes that much of a difference anyway, still fucking scary)
On December 03 2012 00:12 Jamial wrote: Can this be done for LoL too? :O
I've been collecting lol data for this month in a similar way to this sc2 data, and if there's enough interest I can probably get some tables of averages generated.
On December 02 2012 22:38 SupLilSon wrote: Lack of Koreans has probably got a large factor in the steady decline of stream numbers.
Actually I think its the opposite. Koreans have become too dominating and now people have lost interest in the game.
So... good players showing you their gameplay = "fuck that, I'm outta here"?
As opposed to the middling US/EU players who practice a lot less.
I think it's just down to the common streamers and the ones who never stream, the peak viewers for an Mvp/NesTea/Flash/Jaedong stream will be higher than everyone else because it's a very rare opportunity for viewers and fans.
Hell, when I saw IM doing a team stream with Mvp and NesTea I jumped on that and went to town with that stream.
On December 02 2012 22:38 SupLilSon wrote: Lack of Koreans has probably got a large factor in the steady decline of stream numbers.
Actually I think its the opposite. Koreans have become too dominating and now people have lost interest in the game.
This month there has just been so many tournaments people haven't had time or will to watch individual streams. Not more complex than that. Grubby and Naniwa has had great stream numbers last day while streaming.
its just normal to see viewer rates decline after the introduction of a game. People shouldn't try to rationalise the drop in viewers due to koreans or whatever.
Kinda sad that less people are watching streams. I'm sure that when HotS comes out that they will rise again and will slowly decline until LotV.
You can't expect a game to have lots of viewers forever, eventually people will stop watching and the viewers will decline to the extent where only the truely dedicated will keep watching.
On December 09 2012 21:27 poorcloud wrote: its just normal to see viewer rates decline after the introduction of a game. People shouldn't try to rationalise the drop in viewers due to koreans or whatever.
Those stats only count twitch.tv right ? Because player like Adelscott or feast are streaming everyday on the Millenium TV and the average of viewer is around 3k.
For the majority of the time he's gotten over 400 viewers that day, as you say. But the average is still only 379. Some days it takes longer to work up a good viewership, dragging the average viewership down further.
So, basically, the average viewership is generally lower than one might expect.
On December 09 2012 23:00 warzag wrote: Those stats only count twitch.tv right ? Because player like Adelscott or feast are streaming everyday on the Millenium TV and the average of viewer is around 3k.
They count for everything that's listed on teamliquid.net, no matter the hosting website (except for youtube, who don't give out viewership data). Do you mean the stream hosted at http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Millenium? I generally don't count team streams in the list. Though I can't find that stream in my log for some odd reason, I'll have to look into that.
I don't know if most viewers would agree with my sentiment, but I used to eagerly watch streams all the time. The same way most people watch TV, sports, News, etc. Many streamers like Destiny,MaximusBlack, and Dragon were very entertaining to listen to and watch.
However recently I find myself less and less willing to watch anyone streaming. The best players often times have the most boring streams. They just sit there silently playing their macro games. I see the same builds and strategies time and time again. No commentary. Very little interaction with their viewers. I mostly watch the underdog streamers, because they still are fighting for viewers and sometimes do/say something funny or interesting. The only big streamers I even bother with are MaximusBlack and Grubby since they both normally have some interaction with their viewers and actually say something. But even there I find myself getting bored and moving to another stream.
Players and streamers like Idra are among the most boring to watch, which really surprises me that his stream is so popular. You just get to look at his stoic face for hours as he plays mostly macro games. Not very entertaining. Not very educational either. You see basically the same stuff over and over again and then a ton of people going "GG" every time he wins. More power to the thousands of folks that think this is a good time. I just can't bring myself to enjoy it.
On December 10 2012 07:14 deathmirage wrote: I don't know if most viewers would agree with my sentiment, but I used to eagerly watch streams all the time. The same way most people watch TV, sports, News, etc. Many streamers like Destiny,MaximusBlack, and Dragon were very entertaining to listen to and watch.
However recently I find myself less and less willing to watch anyone streaming. The best players often times have the most boring streams. They just sit there silently playing their macro games. I see the same builds and strategies time and time again. No commentary. Very little interaction with their viewers. I mostly watch the underdog streamers, because they still are fighting for viewers and sometimes do/say something funny or interesting. The only big streamers I even bother with are MaximusBlack and Grubby since they both normally have some interaction with their viewers and actually say something. But even there I find myself getting bored and moving to another stream.
Players and streamers like Idra are among the most boring to watch, which really surprises me that his stream is so popular. You just get to look at his stoic face for hours as he plays mostly macro games. Not very entertaining. Not very educational either. You see basically the same stuff over and over again and then a ton of people going "GG" every time he wins. More power to the thousands of folks that think this is a good time. I just can't bring myself to enjoy it.
Playing high level SC2 it's hard to always be interacting with the viewers or you play worse. Streams like TheOddOne/Aphromoo/Dyrus/Salce/Wingsofdeath (Added Salce because im a fanboy) etc etc etc get so many more viewers simply because of the way LoL is as a game compared to SC2. They can talk through the thought process/get shitty at teammates and stuff which makes it a lot of fun to watch which most SC2 players simply can't do. That coupled with the huge boom in LoL popularity anyway
Stream numbers declining. Big Dota names are coming out on top of the SC2 ones in the TL sidebar lately. I expect a lesser decrease in the coming months until the numbers start to plateau.
Almost that entire list has gone from being a reasonable full time job, to that of a part time gig in terms of financially how successful they would be. It's even more concerning considering november and december are two of the biggest months for advertising. It's even more scary when you consider the #1 league streamer probably beats the #1 sc2 streamers monthly viewer number in a single day.
On December 27 2012 10:20 shizaep wrote: Stream numbers declining. Big Dota names are coming out on top of the SC2 ones in the TL sidebar lately. I expect a lesser decrease in the coming months until the numbers start to plateau.
How many tournaments were played in November? Oh that's right a whole lot of them where players either couldnt stream because they were on a plane/jumping from tournaments with no time somewhere or were preparing for a tournament and didn't want to stream it for obvious reasons.
On December 10 2012 07:14 deathmirage wrote: I don't know if most viewers would agree with my sentiment, but I used to eagerly watch streams all the time. The same way most people watch TV, sports, News, etc. Many streamers like Destiny,MaximusBlack, and Dragon were very entertaining to listen to and watch.
However recently I find myself less and less willing to watch anyone streaming. The best players often times have the most boring streams. They just sit there silently playing their macro games. I see the same builds and strategies time and time again. No commentary. Very little interaction with their viewers. I mostly watch the underdog streamers, because they still are fighting for viewers and sometimes do/say something funny or interesting. The only big streamers I even bother with are MaximusBlack and Grubby since they both normally have some interaction with their viewers and actually say something. But even there I find myself getting bored and moving to another stream.
Players and streamers like Idra are among the most boring to watch, which really surprises me that his stream is so popular. You just get to look at his stoic face for hours as he plays mostly macro games. Not very entertaining. Not very educational either. You see basically the same stuff over and over again and then a ton of people going "GG" every time he wins. More power to the thousands of folks that think this is a good time. I just can't bring myself to enjoy it.
I agree that it can be boring to watch a very good player if you are looking for entertainment. Thats why i find it very refreshing to watch Naniwas stream these past weeks becasue he interacts alot and talks while playing. He is actually very funny. Some players I can watch just because their playstyle is likely to bring about some crazy games, like Thorzain who ends up in wild end game scenarios.
I know there were lots of tourneys last month but it does seem like a rather big drop off for someone like IdrA. I can remember him geting over 10k viewers in the past.
oh man starcraft really is decreasing a lot in viewer counts lol. So much for DjWheat's "i have seen more starcraft viewers than ever" on the inside the game episode with destiny. Such a shame
So how do I compare my own numbers to those in the top 50? As casters, I assume glhf.tv doesn't qualify, but I thought I might have had an outside chance of competing with the lower end of the top 50s numbers with the dreamhack commentary, though I worry I didn't get enough hours in. Rest of the month I was either doing street fighter or casting on other streams like prog4mer/insomnia :/
I guess the question is, how do I get these datapoints for my own stream with the same accuracy as the rest? I'm worried if I look at the twitch backend, it'll give me much higher numbers. So how could I get similar results for the glhf.tv stream?
Wow these numbers are truly awesome thanks for this! Some of the hours these streamers put in are rather impressive, hopefully I will have even 1/10th the motivation these streamers have! ^_^
On December 27 2012 20:26 Martijn wrote: So how do I compare my own numbers to those in the top 50? As casters, I assume glhf.tv doesn't qualify, but I thought I might have had an outside chance of competing with the lower end of the top 50s numbers with the dreamhack commentary, though I worry I didn't get enough hours in. Rest of the month I was either doing street fighter or casting on other streams like prog4mer/insomnia :/
I guess the question is, how do I get these datapoints for my own stream with the same accuracy as the rest? I'm worried if I look at the twitch backend, it'll give me much higher numbers. So how could I get similar results for the glhf.tv stream?
I exclude casters/events/shows from the list, so you not appearing there doesn't say anything about your stream numbers. I still have the numbers, though, so I can look them up and send them your way in a few hours (I'm not at home currently). Can you give me your stream-name here on TL?
Also, I'd trust twitch.tv's numbers over mine. All I do is getting the numbers from teamliquid, who gets the numbers from twitch.tv and other streaming platforms. Still, it might be interesting to compare my numbers to what twitch.tv's.
On December 27 2012 19:48 Finnz wrote: oh man starcraft really is decreasing a lot in viewer counts lol. So much for DjWheat's "i have seen more starcraft viewers than ever" on the inside the game episode with destiny. Such a shame
Uhm. You realize that the only decrease in this month is likely due to:
A - the interest in HoTS B - the fact that the main players you want to see playing HoTS, aren't playing it due to tourney commitments
As all the major leagues wrap up and get ready for HoTS being released you will see viewer numbers increase dramatically.
There is also something to be said for quality and educational value. The best streamers by far are Thorzain and DeMuslim because both basically commentate their own games along with pro level analysis and they even interact with their audience a bit between games.
That's reflected in Thorzain's peak viewer count. 7k is a shitload considering the hours he is streaming.
On December 27 2012 20:26 Martijn wrote: So how do I compare my own numbers to those in the top 50? As casters, I assume glhf.tv doesn't qualify, but I thought I might have had an outside chance of competing with the lower end of the top 50s numbers with the dreamhack commentary, though I worry I didn't get enough hours in. Rest of the month I was either doing street fighter or casting on other streams like prog4mer/insomnia :/
I guess the question is, how do I get these datapoints for my own stream with the same accuracy as the rest? I'm worried if I look at the twitch backend, it'll give me much higher numbers. So how could I get similar results for the glhf.tv stream?
I exclude casters/events/shows from the list, so you not appearing there doesn't say anything about your stream numbers. I still have the numbers, though, so I can look them up and send them your way in a few hours (I'm not at home currently). Can you give me your stream-name here on TL?
Also, I'd trust twitch.tv's numbers over mine. All I do is getting the numbers from teamliquid, who gets the numbers from twitch.tv and other streaming platforms. Still, it might be interesting to compare my numbers to what twitch.tv's.
Yeah, I assumed twitch's numbers are more accurate, but the issue is I can't really compare them to the ones in the list because (I imagine) the twitch numbers will be higher. I also read in the OP it wouldn't include casters, which is more than fair I think. Just want to see how it compares. If you want any numbers from twitch from my end, I'm willing to provide whatever we have on twitch. Just let me know which you need.
My stream shows up as GLHF.tv below the calendar but the TL account it's under is TheGunrun. I appreciate the work, thanks. I think it's cool to maintain a list like this.
On December 27 2012 10:20 shizaep wrote: Stream numbers declining. Big Dota names are coming out on top of the SC2 ones in the TL sidebar lately. I expect a lesser decrease in the coming months until the numbers start to plateau.
How many tournaments were played in November? Oh that's right a whole lot of them where players either couldnt stream because they were on a plane/jumping from tournaments with no time somewhere or were preparing for a tournament and didn't want to stream it for obvious reasons.
I'm not making any conclusions or giving any reasons for the declining numbers. I'm just stating what the numbers show. Please look at the graph in the OP. Whatever the reason may be, stream numbers have been declining at a very steady rate for the last 3 months. The many tourneys in November may have something to do with lower November numbers but it definitely isn't the only reason.
On December 27 2012 20:26 Martijn wrote: So how do I compare my own numbers to those in the top 50? As casters, I assume glhf.tv doesn't qualify, but I thought I might have had an outside chance of competing with the lower end of the top 50s numbers with the dreamhack commentary, though I worry I didn't get enough hours in. Rest of the month I was either doing street fighter or casting on other streams like prog4mer/insomnia :/
I guess the question is, how do I get these datapoints for my own stream with the same accuracy as the rest? I'm worried if I look at the twitch backend, it'll give me much higher numbers. So how could I get similar results for the glhf.tv stream?
I exclude casters/events/shows from the list, so you not appearing there doesn't say anything about your stream numbers. I still have the numbers, though, so I can look them up and send them your way in a few hours (I'm not at home currently). Can you give me your stream-name here on TL?
Also, I'd trust twitch.tv's numbers over mine. All I do is getting the numbers from teamliquid, who gets the numbers from twitch.tv and other streaming platforms. Still, it might be interesting to compare my numbers to what twitch.tv's.
Yeah, I assumed twitch's numbers are more accurate, but the issue is I can't really compare them to the ones in the list because (I imagine) the twitch numbers will be higher. I also read in the OP it wouldn't include casters, which is more than fair I think. Just want to see how it compares. If you want any numbers from twitch from my end, I'm willing to provide whatever we have on twitch. Just let me know which you need.
My stream shows up as GLHF.tv below the calendar but the TL account it's under is TheGunrun. I appreciate the work, thanks. I think it's cool to maintain a list like this.
Let's see..last month you had an average viewer count of about 700. There's three events in my database that you streamed: The Idealo.de HotS invitational and Dreamhack Day 1 & 2. Separated by those, you had ~335 average viewers for the HotS invitational, ~1030 average viewers for DH Day 1 and ~600 viewers for DH Day 2. (And that's one of the reasons I don't make a casters top list. Different events have vastly different viewer numbers.)
I'd be really curious what your twitch.tv numbers say, just to see if my data is at all accurate.
i'd like to see some kind of "Player Accomplishment" To "Viewer Count" Ratio statistic with a ranking. someone like MaximumBlack up at the top of that kind of ranking.
On December 28 2012 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i'd like to see some kind of "Player Accomplishment" To "Viewer Count" Ratio statistic with a ranking. someone like MaximumBlack up at the top of that kind of ranking.
On December 28 2012 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i'd like to see some kind of "Player Accomplishment" To "Viewer Count" Ratio statistic with a ranking. someone like MaximumBlack up at the top of that kind of ranking.
On December 28 2012 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i'd like to see some kind of "Player Accomplishment" To "Viewer Count" Ratio statistic with a ranking. someone like MaximumBlack up at the top of that kind of ranking.
How would you rate "Player Accomplishment"?
it would be tricky..
Idra would rank far higher than Maximum Black.. i mean they are not even comparable.. whereas their stream numbers are comparable.
putting MB way ahead of Idra
then we must ask ourselves, what is it MaximumBlack is doing to be able to attract such a large audience? is it solid entertainment or is it "shock jock" swearing and borderline offensive content? if its "shock jock"//"offensive content" then we really have nothing to work with there. but, if its solid entertainment then we have some good information about how to keep viewers interested between games etc.
I dare bet most of my money on the viewer count drop being a result of the massive amounts of tournaments lately. Sad to know a lot of people will ignore that completely :<
On December 28 2012 04:25 JimmyJRaynor wrote: i'd like to see some kind of "Player Accomplishment" To "Viewer Count" Ratio statistic with a ranking. someone like MaximumBlack up at the top of that kind of ranking.
How would you rate "Player Accomplishment"?
it would be tricky..
Idra would rank far higher than Maximum Black.. i mean they are not even comparable.. whereas their stream numbers are comparable.
putting MB way ahead of Idra
then we must ask ourselves, what is it MaximumBlack is doing to be able to attract such a large audience? is it solid entertainment or is it "shock jock" swearing and borderline offensive content? if its "shock jock"//"offensive content" then we really have nothing to work with there. but, if its solid entertainment then we have some good information about how to keep viewers interested between games etc.
Any kind of rating like that would be extremely subjective. I think it's already well established that tournament results are only a minor factor in whether a stream is going to be successful or not. Trying to figure out the other factors would make for an interesting topic, and this list could certainly be used for that.
Me, personally, I'd say the most important criteria for a successful stream are name-value, personality and viewer interaction. But there's no way to put any of that into numbers.
One thing I could do would be to add the numbers TheBB's rating site (aligulac.com, thread here) to my list. That would be an objective number that shows how good a player is doing in the tournament scene.
On December 28 2012 06:36 Deezl wrote: I'd like to see how ROOTLeiYa's numbers compare. She always has plenty of views.
LeiYa had 153 average viewers last month, peaking at 428.
Think it would be possible to get some kind of metric of when the sc2 viewers are watching? What timezone is most popular etc. ^^ thanks again for the work Conti!
On December 28 2012 06:36 Deezl wrote: I'd like to see how ROOTLeiYa's numbers compare. She always has plenty of views.
LeiYa had 153 average viewers last month, peaking at 428.
Think it would be possible to get some kind of metric of when the sc2 viewers are watching? What timezone is most popular etc. ^^ thanks again for the work Conti!
That's definitely possible, I just need to find the time to do it. Are you looking for such stats for a particular streamer (i.e. you ), or more in general terms?
On December 27 2012 20:26 Martijn wrote: So how do I compare my own numbers to those in the top 50? As casters, I assume glhf.tv doesn't qualify, but I thought I might have had an outside chance of competing with the lower end of the top 50s numbers with the dreamhack commentary, though I worry I didn't get enough hours in. Rest of the month I was either doing street fighter or casting on other streams like prog4mer/insomnia :/
I guess the question is, how do I get these datapoints for my own stream with the same accuracy as the rest? I'm worried if I look at the twitch backend, it'll give me much higher numbers. So how could I get similar results for the glhf.tv stream?
I exclude casters/events/shows from the list, so you not appearing there doesn't say anything about your stream numbers. I still have the numbers, though, so I can look them up and send them your way in a few hours (I'm not at home currently). Can you give me your stream-name here on TL?
Also, I'd trust twitch.tv's numbers over mine. All I do is getting the numbers from teamliquid, who gets the numbers from twitch.tv and other streaming platforms. Still, it might be interesting to compare my numbers to what twitch.tv's.
Yeah, I assumed twitch's numbers are more accurate, but the issue is I can't really compare them to the ones in the list because (I imagine) the twitch numbers will be higher. I also read in the OP it wouldn't include casters, which is more than fair I think. Just want to see how it compares. If you want any numbers from twitch from my end, I'm willing to provide whatever we have on twitch. Just let me know which you need.
My stream shows up as GLHF.tv below the calendar but the TL account it's under is TheGunrun. I appreciate the work, thanks. I think it's cool to maintain a list like this.
Let's see..last month you had an average viewer count of about 700. There's three events in my database that you streamed: The Idealo.de HotS invitational and Dreamhack Day 1 & 2. Separated by those, you had ~335 average viewers for the HotS invitational, ~1030 average viewers for DH Day 1 and ~600 viewers for DH Day 2. (And that's one of the reasons I don't make a casters top list. Different events have vastly different viewer numbers.)
I'd be really curious what your twitch.tv numbers say, just to see if my data is at all accurate.
For the Idealo.de HotS Invitational twitch shows 329 average concurrents, peak 570 Dreamhack day 1 983 average concurrents, peak 2704 Dreamhack day 2 601 average concurrents, peak 953
So the average is actually very close. A deviation of 6 during the Idealo.de HotS invitational, 47 during Dreamhack day 1, 1 during Dreamhack day 2.
Dreamhack day 1 was by far the longest cast (11 hours), so it'd make sense we'd see the strongest deviation there. The other 2 (7&6 hours respectively) were shorter. It's most surprising to me that the average from twitch is lower than yours. This might have to do with stream testing and setup for which I don't list the stream on TL obviously and the stream might have not been listed for all of it.
On December 27 2012 20:26 Martijn wrote: So how do I compare my own numbers to those in the top 50? As casters, I assume glhf.tv doesn't qualify, but I thought I might have had an outside chance of competing with the lower end of the top 50s numbers with the dreamhack commentary, though I worry I didn't get enough hours in. Rest of the month I was either doing street fighter or casting on other streams like prog4mer/insomnia :/
I guess the question is, how do I get these datapoints for my own stream with the same accuracy as the rest? I'm worried if I look at the twitch backend, it'll give me much higher numbers. So how could I get similar results for the glhf.tv stream?
I exclude casters/events/shows from the list, so you not appearing there doesn't say anything about your stream numbers. I still have the numbers, though, so I can look them up and send them your way in a few hours (I'm not at home currently). Can you give me your stream-name here on TL?
Also, I'd trust twitch.tv's numbers over mine. All I do is getting the numbers from teamliquid, who gets the numbers from twitch.tv and other streaming platforms. Still, it might be interesting to compare my numbers to what twitch.tv's.
Yeah, I assumed twitch's numbers are more accurate, but the issue is I can't really compare them to the ones in the list because (I imagine) the twitch numbers will be higher. I also read in the OP it wouldn't include casters, which is more than fair I think. Just want to see how it compares. If you want any numbers from twitch from my end, I'm willing to provide whatever we have on twitch. Just let me know which you need.
My stream shows up as GLHF.tv below the calendar but the TL account it's under is TheGunrun. I appreciate the work, thanks. I think it's cool to maintain a list like this.
Let's see..last month you had an average viewer count of about 700. There's three events in my database that you streamed: The Idealo.de HotS invitational and Dreamhack Day 1 & 2. Separated by those, you had ~335 average viewers for the HotS invitational, ~1030 average viewers for DH Day 1 and ~600 viewers for DH Day 2. (And that's one of the reasons I don't make a casters top list. Different events have vastly different viewer numbers.)
I'd be really curious what your twitch.tv numbers say, just to see if my data is at all accurate.
For the Idealo.de HotS Invitational twitch shows 329 average concurrents, peak 570 Dreamhack day 1 983 average concurrents, peak 2704 Dreamhack day 2 601 average concurrents, peak 953
So the average is actually very close. A deviation of 6 during the Idealo.de HotS invitational, 47 during Dreamhack day 1, 1 during Dreamhack day 2.
Dreamhack day 1 was by far the longest cast (11 hours), so it'd make sense we'd see the strongest deviation there. The other 2 (7&6 hours respectively) were shorter. It's most surprising to me that the average from twitch is lower than yours. This might have to do with stream testing and setup for which I don't list the stream on TL obviously and the stream might have not been listed for all of it.
That's most likely a good reason, yeah. The very beginning of a stream always drags the average numbers down quite a bit, since everyone starts with 0 viewers, and that's definitely not helping the average.
Just for the record, the peaks I have for the events are 509, 2716 and 903, respectively, so the deviations are far greater here. I'm not surprised by that, as I grab my datapoints only every 15 minutes, and a lot can happen in that time. For the average it's not so important, but my peak numbers are often not quite accurate. It's nice to see this confirmed.
I'm pretty puzzled by my DH Day 1 peak of 2716, though, when yours is lower than that. Given that I get the numbers from twitch.tv (through TL.net), there should be no way for my number to be higher than yours there. Weird.
On December 27 2012 20:26 Martijn wrote: So how do I compare my own numbers to those in the top 50? As casters, I assume glhf.tv doesn't qualify, but I thought I might have had an outside chance of competing with the lower end of the top 50s numbers with the dreamhack commentary, though I worry I didn't get enough hours in. Rest of the month I was either doing street fighter or casting on other streams like prog4mer/insomnia :/
I guess the question is, how do I get these datapoints for my own stream with the same accuracy as the rest? I'm worried if I look at the twitch backend, it'll give me much higher numbers. So how could I get similar results for the glhf.tv stream?
I exclude casters/events/shows from the list, so you not appearing there doesn't say anything about your stream numbers. I still have the numbers, though, so I can look them up and send them your way in a few hours (I'm not at home currently). Can you give me your stream-name here on TL?
Also, I'd trust twitch.tv's numbers over mine. All I do is getting the numbers from teamliquid, who gets the numbers from twitch.tv and other streaming platforms. Still, it might be interesting to compare my numbers to what twitch.tv's.
Yeah, I assumed twitch's numbers are more accurate, but the issue is I can't really compare them to the ones in the list because (I imagine) the twitch numbers will be higher. I also read in the OP it wouldn't include casters, which is more than fair I think. Just want to see how it compares. If you want any numbers from twitch from my end, I'm willing to provide whatever we have on twitch. Just let me know which you need.
My stream shows up as GLHF.tv below the calendar but the TL account it's under is TheGunrun. I appreciate the work, thanks. I think it's cool to maintain a list like this.
Let's see..last month you had an average viewer count of about 700. There's three events in my database that you streamed: The Idealo.de HotS invitational and Dreamhack Day 1 & 2. Separated by those, you had ~335 average viewers for the HotS invitational, ~1030 average viewers for DH Day 1 and ~600 viewers for DH Day 2. (And that's one of the reasons I don't make a casters top list. Different events have vastly different viewer numbers.)
I'd be really curious what your twitch.tv numbers say, just to see if my data is at all accurate.
For the Idealo.de HotS Invitational twitch shows 329 average concurrents, peak 570 Dreamhack day 1 983 average concurrents, peak 2704 Dreamhack day 2 601 average concurrents, peak 953
So the average is actually very close. A deviation of 6 during the Idealo.de HotS invitational, 47 during Dreamhack day 1, 1 during Dreamhack day 2.
Dreamhack day 1 was by far the longest cast (11 hours), so it'd make sense we'd see the strongest deviation there. The other 2 (7&6 hours respectively) were shorter. It's most surprising to me that the average from twitch is lower than yours. This might have to do with stream testing and setup for which I don't list the stream on TL obviously and the stream might have not been listed for all of it.
That's most likely a good reason, yeah. The very beginning of a stream always drags the average numbers down quite a bit, since everyone starts with 0 viewers, and that's definitely not helping the average.
Just for the record, the peaks I have for the events are 509, 2716 and 903, respectively, so the deviations are far greater here. I'm not surprised by that, as I grab my datapoints only every 15 minutes, and a lot can happen in that time. For the average it's not so important, but my peak numbers are often not quite accurate. It's nice to see this confirmed.
I'm pretty puzzled by my DH Day 1 peak of 2716, though, when yours is lower than that. Given that I get the numbers from twitch.tv (through TL.net), there should be no way for my number to be higher than yours there. Weird.
Yeah that surprises me too.. Let me do a double-take.
Edit: It looks like twitch might store stats once an hour which would imply your averages are more accurate, aside from the "0 viewer" start. Obviously the max of either is the max. I'll poke fishstixs and thegunrun, see if they can clarify how the stats are collected.
Things have seriously declined, just march this year, Idra and Stephano average 7k viewers. WhiteRa did 4k. This is the oldest data i could find in your own topic links.
Both Idra's an Whitera's avg. viewership has been cut in roughly half, i cannot just blindly accept the idea that it is because of tournaments. These tournaments also promote players to a larger audience.
i guess one of the mainreasons why viewernumbers are going down is that sc2 tactics came to an end and most players are playing the same style over and over again, sadly enough this style isnt a very attractive one(very passive/turtlelike overall, and deathball issue is making the game very boring overall), for myself i dont watch that much sc2 anymore and tend to watch more dota2 streams, the main reason is that players arnt that concentrated in their pubs and talk alot while sc2 players often are very quiet and focused overall and dont joke alot, this and the very boring gameplay makes the game less attractive to watch. thats my opinion
On December 28 2012 20:21 Tyree wrote: Things have seriously declined, just march this year, Idra and Stephano average 7k viewers. WhiteRa did 4k. This is the oldest data i could find in your own topic links.
Both Idra's an Whitera's avg. viewership has been cut in roughly half, i cannot just blindly accept the idea that it is because of tournaments. These tournaments also promote players to a larger audience.
Really, use October, or just about any other month than November. Even second string casters like me had an event every weekend in November. You can't really compare these numbers to several months ago. Players, casters and viewers alike were massively busy heh. Between practicing for tournaments (obviously you don't want that streamed), the tournaments and travel, there just wasn't much time left to stream or watch player streams.
On December 28 2012 06:36 Deezl wrote: I'd like to see how ROOTLeiYa's numbers compare. She always has plenty of views.
LeiYa had 153 average viewers last month, peaking at 428.
Think it would be possible to get some kind of metric of when the sc2 viewers are watching? What timezone is most popular etc. ^^ thanks again for the work Conti!
That's definitely possible, I just need to find the time to do it. Are you looking for such stats for a particular streamer (i.e. you ), or more in general terms?
They count for everything that's listed on teamliquid.net, no matter the hosting website (except for youtube, who don't give out viewership data). Do you mean the stream hosted at http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Millenium? I generally don't count team streams in the list. Though I can't find that stream in my log for some odd reason, I'll have to look into that.
They count for everything that's listed on teamliquid.net, no matter the hosting website (except for youtube, who don't give out viewership data). Do you mean the stream hosted at http://www.teamliquid.net/video/streams/Millenium? I generally don't count team streams in the list. Though I can't find that stream in my log for some odd reason, I'll have to look into that.
It will maybe be a bit hard to count how many viewers each player have so I don't know what you can do
Hmm, yeah, that's kinda tricky. Can you access that stream from teamliquid.net? Dayshi is currently streaming, but I can't find neither him nor Millenium TV on TL.net, and that's where I get all my data from.
EPT
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/top50November.png)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/top50NovemberX_.png)
![[image loading]](https://dl.dropbox.com/u/8028950/TL/Viewers%20by%20month (Nov).png)
), Grubby, Apollo, Ret, DIMAGA, LucifroN, RotterdaM, VortiX.
