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tMomiji
United States1115 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:27 s3rp wrote: Ravens could be controlled by Ghost veterans not fit for duty anymore by remote.... . Whatever . You mean kind of like how Stalkers are controlled by Dark Templars? ...Hey wait a minute, doesn't that make them psionic units too?! Then again making Stalkers immune would break the game... | ||
Willzzz
United Kingdom774 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:23 tMomiji wrote: Keep in mind this is partially lore-based. If sentries aren't psionic I don't know what is, but I don't know why they don't just shorten the forcefield time on sentries. I play Protoss and I'm saying this! XD A one or perhaps two second cut to the time seems FINE to me. It would make more sense to me if sentries were immune due to being mechanical. But I'm not really interested in the lore, the gameplay is the most important thing. | ||
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Sissors
1395 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:16 Sianos wrote: I really like the raven change. HSM + upgrades just takes too long to be researched. Zergs nowadays get to T3 between 15 and 16 minutes, which is almost impossible to reach HSM without sacrificing aggression in the mid game. It also was my personal solution to terran´s lategame problems. You can also use raven´s in tvp now to force a fight, which should make it easier to handle very passive protoss players. I personally don´t think that an infestors nerf is necessary. With the now early possible hsm terrans should have more option to handle the deathball by either trying to take out the blords/corrupters or the infestors with HSM, which was quite effective in some pro games. It has now been shown several times that the removal of the HSM upgrade does NOTHING for the time at which HSM is available. The only thing it does is that you dont need to spend the resources on the upgrade. But that would only be relevant for some kind of timing attack (and then it is debatable), late game it wont do anything whatsoever. Raven is pointless against anything with infestors in it, every raven who wants to launch a HSM dies. Also how exactly do you see raven forcing fights in TvP? I see them mainly getting feedbacked. Not to mention the HSM is kinda useless against toss anyway, PDD alot better. And still this change doesnt do anything for the late game, it doesnt fix the issues HSM has, it doesnt allow you to get HSM faster, the only effect it has is saving some gas and minerals. | ||
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SoFrOsTy
United States525 Posts
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BradenKuntz
Canada59 Posts
As for the HSM change, I think it's a great idea. Makes them a little easier to use, as it's not as big of an investment anymore. | ||
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lex.licks.life
United States43 Posts
WHAT? NO. Infested Terrans do NOT need a damage buff. I like the fungal cloud idea though. The Infestor still has to be scary, we cannot completely shut it down. Zerg play revolves around the Infestor. If Fungal Cloud was an option then you need additional support as the Zerg player. Infested Terran range nerf and damage buff would couple well with the radius of the cloud. | ||
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
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tMomiji
United States1115 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:31 Willzzz wrote: It would make more sense to me if sentries were immune due to being mechanical. But I'm not really interested in the lore, the gameplay is the most important thing. True, which is why Stalkers aren't immune despite being piloted by Dark Templars (see my above post), because that would just break everything. The thing is, sentries aren't technically mechanical. They're little capsules of energy. ...Seriously I'm fine with FF being taken down as low as twelve seconds. (Why twelve? Lucky number.) | ||
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Crawdad
614 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:29 xTrim wrote: Raven HSM does nothing. It simply reminds people that it is there.. For instance, if you have a raven with 125+ energy, why not use it? Something like that... The buff itself is only a reduction of 150/150 from your resources pool, which is insignificant once 3 bases is established. Then you may ask: use it prior to 3 bases, why not? Answer: because you are very, very open to exploitable things during that huge window where you invested 200 gas for every raven. Say you have 4 ravens out of 2 starports... By the time the 2nd wave of ravens finish, you still won't have energy for the first ones to cast HSM, and that's a whole 800 gas and 2 minutes. In 2 minutes out of 2 factories with 800 gas I could have almost 6 siege tanks. And I guarantee, 6 siege tanks are SIX SIEGE TANKS. 4 ravens, with 2 ALMOST ready to cast HSM are trash and other 2 with more or less half the energy needed for the cast is trash. Thoughts?? Everything you say is true, but Dustin was well aware of this even before the change. He thinks that the Raven needs a bigger redesign. | ||
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Oukka
Finland1683 Posts
DT:s and warp prisms need more specialised counters, sentry immortal all-in might even force zergs away from 4min 3base BO's. All of this is good I think. More midgame threats should mean that zergs actually have to play midgame instead of just rushing to hive from no units at all. Especially PvZ's are really boring to watch if they play out the nr20 style they've done recently. Now there should be some midgame figths where zergs have to deal with protoss with other units than infestor. This could mean emerging of drop and/or burrow play, ling-hydra or some other unexpected army compositions. All of this is leading to more creative and thus interesting play. I really think this is a great step to the right direction! | ||
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tMomiji
United States1115 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:33 lex.licks.life wrote: The Infestor still has to be scary, we cannot completely shut it down. Zerg play revolves around the Infestor. If Fungal Cloud was an option then you need additional support as the Zerg player. Infested Terran range nerf and damage buff would couple well with the radius of the cloud. That's my point, Zerg play should not revolve around the infestor any more than Protoss play should revolve around the sentry. That's just boring, and horrid design... | ||
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:33 lex.licks.life wrote: The Infestor still has to be scary, we cannot completely shut it down. Zerg play revolves around the Infestor. If Fungal Cloud was an option then you need additional support as the Zerg player. Infested Terran range nerf and damage buff would couple well with the radius of the cloud. I thought that was what we're trying to slowly move away from | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:17 Plansix wrote: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, really? Can someone confirm this and if so, get a banner placed in the thread. Prisms are psionic for sure (played as Protoss, Zerg tried to fungal, didn't work) pretty sure sentries are psionic as well (at least on EU) | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
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HaXXspetten
Sweden15718 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:38 zhurai wrote: (lore should follow balance, not the other way around) I'd say balance should follow lore, just fkn do it right | ||
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tMomiji
United States1115 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:38 zhurai wrote: (lore should follow balance, not the other way around) -flails- Hence why Stalkers are not psionic. | ||
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zhurai
United States5660 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:39 HaXXspetten wrote: I'd say balance should follow lore, just fkn do it right lore can always change slightly to allow for changes in balance r_r | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 22 2012 04:38 Big J wrote: Prisms are psionic for sure (played as Protoss, Zerg tried to fungal, didn't work) pretty sure sentries are psionic as well (at least on EU) Ok, I thought the entire world had gone nuts. So how were the greased up, fungle proof warp prisims? | ||
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Account252508
3454 Posts
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lex.licks.life
United States43 Posts
That's my point, Zerg play should not revolve around the infestor any more than Protoss play should revolve around the sentry. That's just boring, and horrid design... PvP LASER WARS - Do not forget about the Colossus! Zerg has limited options in WoL. If you cut off one leg of the Infestor, you must give it somewhere else. | ||
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