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On November 16 2012 08:28 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 08:18 felisconcolori wrote:On November 16 2012 08:05 Sub40APM wrote:On November 16 2012 08:03 chosenkerrigan wrote:On November 16 2012 07:18 Melaine wrote:On November 16 2012 06:19 Gosi wrote:On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote:OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate  I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart. there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe" China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of. China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there. But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group. I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan] I find this difficult to believe. Frodan-Bitter is clearly the superior pairing. Also, cab drivers hijacking passengers for a shake down is fairly uncommon in the US. Especially with how difficult it is to become a licensed taxi driver - the major cities hold very strongly to the franchising opportunities, and in NYC especially ALL cabs are run by the city on a very tight leash. (Taking into account the push for GPS in all cabs.) Obviously, I can't say the same about Shanghai, because I don't know. But it's also something that is very commonly told to travelers - never get in an unlicensed cab, and even then don't get in without first deciding on the price/rate. As far as Mr. Bitter inviting it, only in that he was in China and is a foreigner. That may be similar everywhere, though - it could be assumed to be easier to target foreign travelers, since they won't be around after their trip is over and a criminal can probably hide until then. Or, if there's a corrupt legal system, the process can be prolonged until the traveler leaves. YMMV, and it definitely will depend on all the other factors. Glad Mr. Bitter was unharmed - and hope his casting continues to be quality throughout the upcoming BWC. Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter: a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house" Again, like you said, he's a victim and deserves our sympathy (even if he was looking for prostitutes) but given his actions, you can't really make a blanket judgement about the public safety of cities like Shanghai. Plenty of tourists in the US get rolled after getting drunk or visiting a hooker off craigslist too.
Absolutely, Mr. Bitter had some questionable decisions there. But I'm thinking after the stranger got in the cab, and it left the bar area, his options got pretty limited quickly. I completely understand his reasoning from the point after the cab pulled away from the bar.
And I agree, there's plenty of tourists in the US that get taken advantage of - it's just usually in a different manner. (Craigslist, for example - yeah, personals section can be fun to read, but not a good place to find True Love.) Also, depending on the bar, you might be okay - most of the bartenders of my acquaintance will at least make sure you get into a cab and on the way home if you're completely gone. Partly, I think, again because of tight restrictions in place and the odds that police are waiting to ticket you if you try to drive.
I've done some questionable things in my life, but fortunately I haven't had anything go the way Mr. Bitter's story went. ("Sure, honey, let's walk around Nassau alone, at night, and try to find 'the local bar'." Turned out okay. Then again, on my honeymoon I didn't expect someone to proposition my wife by offering weed to her in front of me. (Did offer to share with me, after making an exaggerated use of my hand with the wedding ring.)
Anyways, yes, Mr. Bitter did make a few tactical errors, and it's possible for bad things to happen in the US - but I think statistically it may be more likely in Shanghai. (Storied history and culture, fairly strong underworld, fairly insular, and usually not violent in such situations if they can avoid to be. Aka, the guy was fairly polite after the fact, they gave him enough money to pay for the cab trip to the hotel afterwards.) I think in this particular situation, they know how the game works - they can extort money of Mr. Bitter, who is going to dispute the charges. At which time, they'll have already converted it to cash. The bank eats the loss (assuming they try to reverse the charges, or otherwise protect Bitter from the loss). By not being violent, they avoid a harsh police crack down, and lessen the likelihood of the foreigner from becoming overly invested in pushing for punishment.
As far as how it all happened, according to Mr. Bitter's story (on page 3), it seems like a pretty well practiced con. Not to get overly burdened stereotypes, but typical Chinese efficiency along with preparedness. Except for the breaking the law and stealing parts, pretty slick operation.
(EDIT: On reading this last part, I have to say that I'm not in any way saying it's cool, a good thing, etc. Part of my job requires me to look at the planning and execution of very, very bad things. Looking at it that way, devoid of emotional investment, leads to the above sentiment.)
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Never travel with credit card in china, and i was there a long time.
Always get drunk and go home alone, never get mugged.
But now i know the story that a foreigner told me in the plane was true, just like yours, but was in beijing.
But i heard some other story, wayyyy more scary than those, and i dont think you will be here to tell us this one.
Have fun, shanghai is pretty good city.
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woh, thats really wierd.
im so happy he wasnt hurt, man i freaked when i read the thread title
i love mr bitter im happy hes ok 
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Hey man, sorry for that. I can kinda feel how it was, I was robbed by 5 15 y/o s when they put knives on my throat and asked for my wallet and my cell phone. It was about 250 euro that time ... at least your guys were more polite.
Another time we booked a hostel in bulgaria which we found on tripadvisor (cause we changed flights there and had to get a place to rest for the next 12 hours), and actually it was a mafia trap (there were 2 guys waiting with guns outside the place and one huge jeep... thank god the taxi driver was aware of the scam when we told them to stop there, and police confirmed that too right away...) They would kill us to take our kidneys! Holy shit!
You gotta be very careful on places like that. Thank god you got alright, now you have a great story to tell (dont sweat it $1600 is not much considering you they didnt hurt you).
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They've got your name, and your hotel. If I were you, I'd change hotel for the rest of the stay ASAP.
Glad nothing worse happened though.
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On November 16 2012 08:52 eanxiii wrote:
Never travel with credit card in china, and i was there a long time.
Always get drunk and go home alone, never get mugged.
But now i know the story that a foreigner told me in the plane was true, just like yours, but was in beijing.
But i heard some other story, wayyyy more scary than those, and i dont think you will be here to tell us this one.
Have fun, shanghai is pretty good city.
Credit / Debt card is fine and rather useful in Shanghai, but being alone at night, especially if you don't look like that you live there, is a bad idea
On November 16 2012 08:56 ZweiGaming wrote:
They've got your name, and your hotel. If I were you, I'd change hotel for the rest of the stay ASAP.
Glad nothing worse happened though.
Or don't leave / enter hotel alone if that's too much hassle. It is rather hard to find a decent hotel that won't rip you off (more) and convenient.
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Happy to hear your ok.
Dont beat your self up about what happened, i probably would have frozen if someone randomly walked into a cap i was in.
At least your ok!
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On November 16 2012 08:50 MrBitter wrote:
Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term.
I don't think it is actually. Fleeced would be like, you pay for your hotel and get charged 2000 dollars more than they said they would. You didn't want to go with these guys, never mind have them charge you anything. Mugging fits better. And it's still a scary situation because the implication of the threat of a classic mugging is what forces you to go along in the first place.
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I have heard of stories like these before as I live in Beijing and have first source stories, but usually they involve Date Rape drugs. It's arranged by the Chinese mafia, the triad, and it is usually women who does it. It originates from Hongkong, but has made it's way up to Shanghai and now even to Beijing. But please, don't be discouraged.. as I would still say China is one of the safest countries in the world. (As a westerner I understand that may be hard to believe, but it truly is. Crime rates are so extremely low here).
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On November 16 2012 08:41 ragz_gt wrote:
BTW MrBitter, make sure you bring it up and complain to your Chinese host. WCS is hosted by 163.net IIRC and they have some pull in Shanghai. Pretty sure they'd be on top of it to avoid losing face.
And get a new hotel
Do both of these. The police wouldn't normally give a crap but they might if you do this. Might save some future victim from having the same thing happen.
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It's easy to shout from your home couch YEA YOU SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT AND THAT. It's a shitty situation and most people would have acted just like Bitter did. Don't blame yourself, at least you're ok. Live and learn.
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On November 16 2012 08:50 MrBitter wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 08:47 openbox1 wrote:On November 16 2012 08:41 MrBitter wrote:
Been sitting here f5ing this thread for the past like, 3 hours.
Appreciate all the comments and support, guys.
I will see about filing a police report today.
Not going to expect much, and honestly am just very glad to be safe back at the hotel. Just make sure to follow up quickly with your original bank. Right now since you're safe and sound, you just want to prioritize minimizing your losses since with the proper steps you can get full reimbursement. Ask your bank for all documents to file a reimbursement claim and get documentation from the police that you have filed a report with local law enforcement. Make very sure that the police report copy contains details of all transaction amounts and times. The police will do nothing but you still need the paper to work with your bank. Use skype to call since all US 1800 numbers are free with an internet connection and hold times are going to be killer. Also, probably paranoid, but card scanners were quite frequent a few years back so in case they had your wallet in their possession, you might want to cancel all credit cards and file for replacements with new numbers. I assume you've already canceled the debit card in question. First thing I did when I got back to the hotel was call my bank, so that process is already underway. Card is also cancelled. Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 08:49 WArped wrote:
Title is slightly misleading, at least to me. Being mugged in the UK means a slightly different thing, this sounded a whole lot worse of a situation, but Bitter wasn't physically "mugged", thankfully. It sounds like Bitter made all the correct decisions in that situation. If you'd of stayed drinking a bit longer and left alone, you could of been a whole lot more out of it under the same sticky situation, and that would of been bad. Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term.
While not the same circumstance (and amount) -- I had a funny charge on my debit card from my trip in Rome for 50 something dollars.. called my bank, got a new card.. and the 50 dollars was credited within a week. Debit and credit cards really aren't that different.. just one is linked to your bank account and one is linked to a credit pool, which is no different than your bank account, really. Credit Cards usually have better response / service when it comes to these things though.
Police report will basically let you get your money back, I'm pretty sure. Your bank statement should show where these transactions went, and the bank can usually follow up / track some of those. If they really can't validate the recipient, it helps validate your side of the story.
Also, as mentioned earlier, the withdrawal limit and spending limit are different. My card has a 1000 dollar daily ATM limit and a 2500 dollar spending limit. I learned that they were different when I was about to purchase a new computer that was over the 1000 dollar limit that was shown on my online checking. The bank representative said that the number displayed was for ATM withdrawals.
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Wow, that sucks. I still want to go to China some day, though; have a great time!
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Well the good thing is that you are alive and not beaten up. I don`t think your choices were embarrassing at all. I would have done the same thing and the decision to not fight back when you are outnumbered is wise. The whole cab WTF moment isn`t something you can really react to if you never heard of such things happen to others before. I know after hearing your story, I will be ready to jump the fuck out now though HAHA.
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On November 16 2012 08:52 eanxiii wrote:
Never travel with credit card in china, and i was there a long time.
Always get drunk and go home alone, never get mugged.
But now i know the story that a foreigner told me in the plane was true, just like yours, but was in beijing.
But i heard some other story, wayyyy more scary than those, and i dont think you will be here to tell us this one.
Have fun, shanghai is pretty good city.
Please always carry a credit card. Credit cards, especially US ones, have 100% fraud protection and you can remove the balance immediately when you dispute charges (although if you lose the dispute the charge comes right back on). Debit cards are the crappy ones which require you to jump endless hoops since the money is transferred out of your bank account immediately.
That's why you always carry one or two credit cards and cash when you travel. Keep the debit card and other cards with your passport in a safe place. If you want to be safer, when you travel bring a photocopy of your id rather than your passport so you don't lose it in case you get pick pocketed. The front desk at any hotel will help you make a copy for free (just give a small tip) or you'll have to pay a bit at the business center.
If you have to entertain clients in China, you'll also have to carry cash if you don't want the charges to show up on your card or if you have to pay for hostesses. Also, most of the World is not like the US where you can use credit card for $5 coffee at starbucks or a $2 chocolate bar at Walgreens. Taxis, Fast Food, coffee, transactions below a certain amount all require cash and if you have a lot of meetings they start to add up.
But drifting off topic again. Beijing and Shanghai is overwhelmingly safe for most foreigners although probably more pick-pockets although that's not as bad as it was 10 years ago. Just don't do stupid things like stroll around drunk in the middle of the night or do anything you wouldn't do in the State.s
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On November 16 2012 09:04 RiceAgainst wrote:
Wow, that sucks. I still want to go to China some day, though; have a great time!
Most places, short of outright war zones, are pretty safe to travel in with a few precautions. And even mild war zones can be okay, if you've got decent security involved. You can't eliminate all risks, of course, but it's about mitigating the risks as much as possible.
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On November 16 2012 09:02 Mysticesper wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 08:50 MrBitter wrote:On November 16 2012 08:47 openbox1 wrote:On November 16 2012 08:41 MrBitter wrote:
Been sitting here f5ing this thread for the past like, 3 hours.
Appreciate all the comments and support, guys.
I will see about filing a police report today.
Not going to expect much, and honestly am just very glad to be safe back at the hotel. Just make sure to follow up quickly with your original bank. Right now since you're safe and sound, you just want to prioritize minimizing your losses since with the proper steps you can get full reimbursement. Ask your bank for all documents to file a reimbursement claim and get documentation from the police that you have filed a report with local law enforcement. Make very sure that the police report copy contains details of all transaction amounts and times. The police will do nothing but you still need the paper to work with your bank. Use skype to call since all US 1800 numbers are free with an internet connection and hold times are going to be killer. Also, probably paranoid, but card scanners were quite frequent a few years back so in case they had your wallet in their possession, you might want to cancel all credit cards and file for replacements with new numbers. I assume you've already canceled the debit card in question. First thing I did when I got back to the hotel was call my bank, so that process is already underway. Card is also cancelled. On November 16 2012 08:49 WArped wrote:
Title is slightly misleading, at least to me. Being mugged in the UK means a slightly different thing, this sounded a whole lot worse of a situation, but Bitter wasn't physically "mugged", thankfully. It sounds like Bitter made all the correct decisions in that situation. If you'd of stayed drinking a bit longer and left alone, you could of been a whole lot more out of it under the same sticky situation, and that would of been bad. Yes, wasn't really mugged. I think fleeced might be a better term. While not the same circumstance (and amount) -- I had a funny charge on my debit card from my trip in Rome for 50 something dollars.. called my bank, got a new card.. and the 50 dollars was credited within a week. Debit and credit cards really aren't that different.. just one is linked to your bank account and one is linked to a credit pool, which is no different than your bank account, really. Credit Cards usually have better response / service when it comes to these things though. Police report will basically let you get your money back, I'm pretty sure. Your bank statement should show where these transactions went, and the bank can usually follow up / track some of those. If they really can't validate the recipient, it helps validate your side of the story. Also, as mentioned earlier, the withdrawal limit and spending limit are different. My card has a 1000 dollar daily ATM limit and a 2500 dollar spending limit. I learned that they were different when I was about to purchase a new computer that was over the 1000 dollar limit that was shown on my online checking. The bank representative said that the number displayed was for ATM withdrawals.
I agree. I went by the statements from Slasher / rakaka and fragbite and they all said mugged. This was before I read anything from MrBitter himself of course. Sorry for the misleading title!
That being said Im grateful you happened to run into a gang of friendly (well, relative friendly at least) people instead of some violent guys.
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On November 16 2012 08:28 openbox1 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 08:18 felisconcolori wrote:On November 16 2012 08:05 Sub40APM wrote:On November 16 2012 08:03 chosenkerrigan wrote:On November 16 2012 07:18 Melaine wrote:On November 16 2012 06:19 Gosi wrote:On November 16 2012 06:06 Terrix wrote:OMG WTF... So dangerous, was he in a bad part of town? Thats so scary... Hope it wasn't too bad for you mate I doubt he was in a bad part of Shanghai since the party location and the hotel have to be paid by Blizzard, no? If so, I can't really see them being in bad areas at all. I just think it is easy to scam foreigners in China if the person is suffering from language barriers and ain't so streetsmart. there is no such thing as "good" or "bad" places in south east Asia/China......It's not like in USA rich spoiled kids can avoid certain areas and feel "safe" China has massive crime all over the place, and China is not very friendly towards UK/USA folk, seems like something Mr Bitter should of been aware of, diff if he was at a "party" China is known for doing this sort of thing to traveler's who get to drunk at parties, does not matter what area u are in at China, something you always have to be a aware of. China/North Korea and other places like these in Asia can be very scary if you don't know what you are doing, not exactly the most friendly places in our world. I been to China many times for work and you always have to be aware of people as a American/UK/Euro there. But glad to see he is ok.......these thing does happen all the time and almost 100% certain to happen act stupid or get drunk @ a party and get isolated from your group. I feel sorry for Mr.Bitter but your post is insanely misinformed. I have lived both in China and the US, and I could assure you that major cities in the U.S. like NYC, Chicago, and LA are much more dangerous than Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong. It depends on your definition of safety. Drinking in a major entertainment district and then getting into a licensed cab seems a lot safer in the United States than in China. [I am going to skip the whole life experience one-up-man-ship because how do you know who I am, maybe I am the boss of the Shanghai whorehouse who ripped Mr. Bitter of and now I am just here to enjoy his humiliation because I am more of a Frodan-Roterdam fan] I find this difficult to believe. Frodan-Bitter is clearly the superior pairing. Also, cab drivers hijacking passengers for a shake down is fairly uncommon in the US. Especially with how difficult it is to become a licensed taxi driver - the major cities hold very strongly to the franchising opportunities, and in NYC especially ALL cabs are run by the city on a very tight leash. (Taking into account the push for GPS in all cabs.) Obviously, I can't say the same about Shanghai, because I don't know. But it's also something that is very commonly told to travelers - never get in an unlicensed cab, and even then don't get in without first deciding on the price/rate. As far as Mr. Bitter inviting it, only in that he was in China and is a foreigner. That may be similar everywhere, though - it could be assumed to be easier to target foreign travelers, since they won't be around after their trip is over and a criminal can probably hide until then. Or, if there's a corrupt legal system, the process can be prolonged until the traveler leaves. YMMV, and it definitely will depend on all the other factors. Glad Mr. Bitter was unharmed - and hope his casting continues to be quality throughout the upcoming BWC. Look, I'm not saying the police are not corrupt in China. They are. However, again as I said Mr Bitter: a) Allowed a stranger to get in the cab with him b) Got off with stranger at a unknown destination c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house" Again, like you said, he's a victim and deserves our sympathy (even if he was looking for prostitutes) but given his actions, you can't really make a blanket judgement about the public safety of cities like Shanghai. Plenty of tourists in the US get rolled after getting drunk or visiting a hooker off craigslist too.
I need evidence to support this last claim:
c) Followed a stranger to a probable "whore house"
Again, like you said, he's a victim and deserves our sympathy (even if he was looking for prostitutes) but given his actions
That's some wild stuff you are putting forward there.
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EPT
