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On November 16 2012 02:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 02:50 Plansix wrote:On November 16 2012 02:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 16 2012 02:22 Plansix wrote:On November 16 2012 02:15 MLG_Adam wrote:On November 16 2012 02:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 16 2012 02:09 MLG_Adam wrote:On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote:
Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV... No PPV Good  Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events). MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)? We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details. Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games. While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated. Double elmination presents a whole series of problems, most of which the viewers are not aware of. A lot of them are on the broadcast side and prevent us from seeing a lot of games. Here are a few I have seen in the last year off the top of my head: - Inability to predict who is going to play who. Leads to players doing generic builds because they cannot prepare for everything. - Limited ability to prepare to broadcast the next match, due to different groups moving at different speeds. Set up time for the players is also a factor. - To many games for the players, who can't eat, sleep or even know when their match is going to take place. Naniwa vs Flash at 2 am would still be a terrible match because its 2 am and they are both jetlagged to hell. - Impossible to follow brackets that require me to have my kindle fire open just to see what is going on in other brackets. - To many games for veiwers. I can't watch 14 hours of starcraft a day for a weekend, my girlfriend will kill me. Half these problems just tell me you've never had Liquipedia open during a major tournament. Just click refresh and you know where everyone is and who may play who in the future. I think if you have an issue with "too many" games of StarCraft from a viewer perspective, then I don't really know what to say. Watch the VODs another time? Have your girlfriend watch them with you? Go close the stream and do something else and return whenever you can? You'd be watching the same number of games anyway, but those of us who can handle watching back-to-back games can enjoy the tournament during its entirety. The big problem that you pointed out that I do agree with is the problem of scheduling and stamina for the players. And yes, that's because there are more games that need to be played in a double elimination tournament than a single elimination one. It's definitely an issue if a player has to play a ton of games back to back, or has to start really early and then his last game is very late and hasn't been told of his schedule at all. I feel like a lot of these things can be solved with better scheduling and informing and communicating between the tournament organizers and the players though. I don't believe this problem is a necessity that can't be ameliorated.
I just want the events to focus down, that focus on quality rather than the raw number of matches shown. I think there has been to much of a focus on getting 4-7 streams open with as many games as possible going at one time. I would rather they focus on making sure the broadcast moves smoothly, that players have time to prepare and they know what to expect. Predictable map pool, opponent pool and the ability for someone to prepare for the match in advance. I think single elimination could do a lot to make the event more predictable and managable. I could be wrong, but it works for most other sports.
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Well.. time to officially say that DotA2 will never be in their planes.
Hopefully everything goes as planned for Starcraft! We can hope so!
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On November 16 2012 01:09 imallinson wrote:
This is awesome. Having a better organised tournament timetable is better for the viewers, players and organisers. The universal ranking is a cool idea and the unified competition structure is an excellent idea (hopefully no more MLG bracketception). Hopefully some of the other major tournament organisers, like IPL and IEM, can be brought into this as well because it should be better if all the major tournaments are involved.
IEM is ESL.
Anyways, I hope IGN (IPL), NASL, GOM (GSL), and OGN (OSL) will join up eventually to make it truly global.
And in parallel the player/team organizations need to develop as well: KeSPA and eSF (open to foreigner teams) so far.
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Thats fucking huge and amazing !!
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Universal Ranking: A universal ranking system across organizations for all major game titles directly impacting seeding and event qualification.
About time -.-
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I love the goal of this partnership and I congratulate all the guys who worked on it. The only thing which makes me a little sad is this "unified tournament structure". What I love in SC2 is the fact that every tournament runs with a different format. Yes, sometimes, the format is bad (extended series, single elimination BO3, etc...) but this diversity is really appreciable. So I hope the tournaments won't lost their identity through this partnership.
But as I said above, this is great !
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Intrigued to see exactly how this Universal Ranking will play out. Other than that, it's just three big event organisers finally communicating and working together to make it easier for everyone else, which should have happened already. Nice to see it happen, though.
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Don't see the universal ranking being too useful with only 3 tournaments being taken into account tbh. Think about how frequent top Koreans consistently attend every DreamHack, MLG or IEM ...
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On November 16 2012 01:00 TeamLiquid ESPORTS wrote:The partnership includes, but is not limited to the following: - Universal Ranking: A universal ranking system across organizations for all major game titles directly impacting seeding and event qualification.
- Master Tournament Calendar: One event calendar ensuring a minimum or no conflicts to ease players’ schedules and enables fans across the globe to easily spectate.
- Unified Competition Structure: Development of a unified competition structure for all major titles at all tournaments.
- Talent and Marketing Efforts: Cross promotion and support for all leagues to drive further awareness for eSports and league activities, as well as a shared roster of commentators and broadcast talent.
Additional details will be released soon.
Now that, is truly awesome.
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Hell, it's about time.
I wonder how long it'll take for them to bring in IPL + GSL, Iron Squid and the notorious NASL.
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United States97277 Posts
I wonder if this means Kespa players are no longer MLG exclusive
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This is awesome stuff right here. MLG is really building their organization to last. I think the number of premier leagues will eventually be reduced, which is fine because it will be more unified and sustainable. These three will probably stick around...notice how these are also the leagues that have a more diversified list of games .
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On November 16 2012 03:38 KanoCoke wrote:
Hell, it's about time.
I wonder how long it'll take for them to bring in IPL + GSL, Iron Squid and the notorious NASL.
Don't hold your breath for IPL and NASL to join. MLG is positioning themselves to be sustainable. There isn't room for three premier esports leagues in the US.
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On November 16 2012 03:16 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On November 16 2012 02:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 16 2012 02:50 Plansix wrote:On November 16 2012 02:34 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 16 2012 02:22 Plansix wrote:On November 16 2012 02:15 MLG_Adam wrote:On November 16 2012 02:13 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On November 16 2012 02:09 MLG_Adam wrote:On November 16 2012 02:08 Meki wrote:
Sounds great, but i'm fearing PPV... No PPV Good Didn't really expect it to occur anyway (at least, for the main championship events). MLG Adam, does the streamlining of the competition structure imply that MLG may finally get rid of the double elimination + extended series format? Or that, in general, DH, ESL and MLG will all share the same format for their tournament (whatever that may end up being)? We are evaluating Double Elimination now. I can say with 99% confidence that extended series will not be present for SC2 next year. Stay tuned for details. Double elimination is the bane of SC2 right now. To many games, to hard to plan, do difficult to broadcast. I would rather watch 50 awesome elimination games in a weekend than 250 games, some that are not broadcast. It hard to follow, brutal on the players and just leads to generic, run of the mill, substandard games. While I agree with you that scheduling *the most important games* to appear on a stream gets dicey (because of how subjective it becomes, and you end up with some players ::coughPoltcough:: not getting much air time), as far as tournament format and fairness goes, I always thought it was pretty much established that double elimination is fine, but it's the extended series in addition to double elimination that's the central problem. The extended series seems to be the biggest controversy, and that's what a good number of people want eliminated. Double elmination presents a whole series of problems, most of which the viewers are not aware of. A lot of them are on the broadcast side and prevent us from seeing a lot of games. Here are a few I have seen in the last year off the top of my head: - Inability to predict who is going to play who. Leads to players doing generic builds because they cannot prepare for everything. - Limited ability to prepare to broadcast the next match, due to different groups moving at different speeds. Set up time for the players is also a factor. - To many games for the players, who can't eat, sleep or even know when their match is going to take place. Naniwa vs Flash at 2 am would still be a terrible match because its 2 am and they are both jetlagged to hell. - Impossible to follow brackets that require me to have my kindle fire open just to see what is going on in other brackets. - To many games for veiwers. I can't watch 14 hours of starcraft a day for a weekend, my girlfriend will kill me. Half these problems just tell me you've never had Liquipedia open during a major tournament. Just click refresh and you know where everyone is and who may play who in the future. I think if you have an issue with "too many" games of StarCraft from a viewer perspective, then I don't really know what to say. Watch the VODs another time? Have your girlfriend watch them with you? Go close the stream and do something else and return whenever you can? You'd be watching the same number of games anyway, but those of us who can handle watching back-to-back games can enjoy the tournament during its entirety. The big problem that you pointed out that I do agree with is the problem of scheduling and stamina for the players. And yes, that's because there are more games that need to be played in a double elimination tournament than a single elimination one. It's definitely an issue if a player has to play a ton of games back to back, or has to start really early and then his last game is very late and hasn't been told of his schedule at all. I feel like a lot of these things can be solved with better scheduling and informing and communicating between the tournament organizers and the players though. I don't believe this problem is a necessity that can't be ameliorated. I just want the events to focus down, that focus on quality rather than the raw number of matches shown. I think there has been to much of a focus on getting 4-7 streams open with as many games as possible going at one time. I would rather they focus on making sure the broadcast moves smoothly, that players have time to prepare and they know what to expect. Predictable map pool, opponent pool and the ability for someone to prepare for the match in advance. I think single elimination could do a lot to make the event more predictable and managable. I could be wrong, but it works for most other sports.
Fair enough. I'm just afraid that someone will write off a tournament format that at least has the potential to be successful merely because it's different than another format that's the norm.
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I guess it's better to wait for additional details.
I doubt this organization will include IPL/GSL or do anything to get players their winnings faster.
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Holy fuck. A new day has dawned for esports!
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Poland3775 Posts
On November 16 2012 01:07 docvoc wrote:And now all the worries of tournament fatigue and oversaturation have been thoroughly ended .
This are three major players but even outside korea there's still tournaments that may be problematic like IPL or ROG.
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Dota 2 on all major circuits please
e: also, whatup ign?
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need to get IPL, GSL, KESPA and NASL on board!
but it's a step in the right direction
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just one word AWESOME, shite son, finally a wolrd ranking... that is gonna be sick
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EPT
