Looking at TLPD, the active roster is at 5, with BaByJaedongJaehoonRyul2Sang (Terminator), B-teamers not included. Tyson (Bridge), by.hero and Movie have all retired and were streaming BW on Afreeca recently. Obviously Sea has joined Liquid. No word of a sponsor after the end of hybrid Proleague, either. I believe Kespa said they won't go with 7 teams for the 2012-2013 Proleague (November?) since Air Force ACE is no longer accepting new players...I can't see them going down to 6 either.
Anyone with an ear to the ground in Korea know what's up? This also extends to all of Proleague. Some have speculated LG-IM will join due to their good sponsors and star power.
with GSTL losing quite a few teams ( TL,oGs a while ago, SlayerS and Zenex they were in GSTL before becoming startale right) it would be awesome to see the Kaspa team playing against the eSF teams.
It may be hard due to Kespa and eSF relationship :/
I can definitely see IM joining and it still being an even playing field. Due to the PL style (not being a king of the hill format), Seed and Mvp won't be able to carry their team to victory every time IM is up to play. IM does have a deep roster, but we've seen that Flash and Roro can beat Seed convincingly, and while these two are among the best Kespa players, I think this hints at weaker Kespa pros being able to take down weaker IM members such as Losira, Yonghwa, and Nestea.
Starcraft 2 in Korea is struggling cause of LoL, so they don't get any sponsors. They also lost 1st place in PL in last round and ended up as 3rd (had been 2nd if Jaehoon didn't stay too long in game after gg -.- lol.) which was a really huge demotivation for them. I guess this is one of the main thing for not getting a sponsor after the PL, if they had been in final someone would had sponsored them imo.
On October 29 2012 09:09 Dakure wrote: I can definitely see IM joining and it still being an even playing field. Due to the PL style (not being a king of the hill format), Seed and Mvp won't be able to carry their team to victory every time IM is up to play. IM does have a deep roster, but we've seen that Flash and Roro can beat Seed convincingly, and while these two are among the best Kespa players, I think this hints at weaker Kespa pros being able to take down weaker IM members such as Losira, Yonghwa, and Nestea.
Even field? Any of the Top 4 GSTL teams have a very strong chance at wining the PL. LG-IM or StarTale would have an easy road to victory to be honest.
Baby, JD and Terminator are enough to carry a team through any team League without getting completely destroyed (especially JD has experience with that) to give Jaehoon and the B teamers time to catch up.
Should Kespa and ESF come to a fair agreement both sides will profit massively and team 8 might have a future and find a sponsor. A team League broadcasted Koreawide via OGN and internationally via GOM is certainly still worth a lot for a sponsor. Chances are not bad because with the Slayer's disaster on ESF side and the problems Kespa has both sides can't dick around too much anymore. Though they obviously fight behind the curtains atm because they fucking hate each other or we would have heard from them already. Like I explained here both sides would profit massively from the other.
So all we can do is wait and see if the self destruction of ESF and Kespa will continue or if they can man up and come to an agreement. Overall I think it looks bad for Team 8 but not hopeless.
Is there more solid confirmation on the B-teamers retiring other than streaming BW on Afreeca? iirc, Sang mentioned in his GSL Code A Ro48 interviews that his team was on break, so maybe the BW streaming happened during then, though I do not know how much they ended up streaming. His Ro32 interview didn't really have much juicy information, however.
I was asking myself the same question, even if i didn't knew that Tyson, hero and Movie retired. For obvious reasons i can not see them starting the proleague with only 5 players (just imagine how other teams will snipe them), so i guess they'll have to recruit some people, but do they have enought money ?
Correct me if I'm wrong but, i think they can't buy players from ESF teams, so best case scenario they'll get one or two cheap motivated B-Teamer from another KeSPA team, whom will be guaranteed to play some televised games.
I believe Kespa said they won't go with 7 teams for the 2012-2013 Proleague
By the way where did you saw that ? Any sources ?
I'd really love some new about the next proleague, i really cant see them running it with only 6 or 7 teams.. I hope ESF and KeSPA will manage to set up a proper team league together, even if i don't see GomTV giving up the GSTL.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Eh, KeSPA didn't do so hot in Code A and especially Up/Downs, which was a Bo1. I think teams with four solid players like ST, TSL, LG-IM, Prime, FXO, and MVP could do well.
Why would big team like IM and ST join KeSPA? I totally dont understand. It's just like give up your own right and position to the KeSPA and you will get ... more restriction in return? That didnt make any sense. If you were a free contractor with good and sustainable income, why would you care to join a company who have their own financial trouble and letting someone be you boss so you can work for him? Just for a decent title like I worked in Nokia? LOL.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
There's probably a maximum of 1-2 KeSPA players in each KeSPA team right now who could reliably take sets from the top ESF pros, but isn't enough to win for PL format.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Team 8 has almost no players on it, and last I heard KeSPA negotiations w/ Woongjin was going down the shitter (Woongjin doesn't want to sponsor a SC2 team). My source is listening to Killer talk while he was streaming, who still has close connections with the SC2 KeSPA players (went clubbing recently w/ Bisu and Jaedong lol)
What I think is gonna happne is probably Stars is going to absorb Team 8 or the other way around, and we're left with 6 KeSPA teams. Dunno about who's gonna sponsor Stars/8, probably KeSPA again if they can't find a sponsor.
On October 29 2012 09:09 mjuuy wrote: Starcraft 2 in Korea is struggling cause of LoL, so they don't get any sponsors. They also lost 1st place in PL in last round and ended up as 3rd (had been 2nd if Jaehoon didn't stay too long in game after gg -.- lol.) which was a really huge demotivation for them. I guess this is one of the main thing for not getting a sponsor after the PL, if they had been in final someone would had sponsored them imo.
I don't believe there has been any official news about the next PL season, which is sad because I want to see SKT play again
The problem with getting ESF teams to join Proleague is that if you only take a select few of them there is going to be jealousy, playing in PL brings air time on TV and that brings sponsors to your team. Sure IM and Startale could probably join but would that be fair to the other ESF teams?
I was happy to see so few Kespa players make it through the Up and Down matches. It was a nice reality check for people in terms of this debate. A way of just making things a bit easier to discuss.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Although I don't believe that Kespa teams would dominate, to say that they can't catch up even with current eSF players improving is wrong. Kespa players are pros too and I expect an EVEN playing field within the next year. What I'm saying is Kespa pros have the talent to catch-up and already have good mechanics, in the first place, to boot.
I think Kespa and eSF would do well to work out some sort of merger. With the popularity of MOBA games, in order for SC2 to thrive, Kespa and eSF would benefit from joint advertising and marketing as well as tournament scheduling for their individual tourneys and an even sicker team league season.
Yes, the hype is indeed over but remember that once skill reaches higher levels, improvement slows down, if Kespa maintains their practice regimen they can still catch up with the generally better eSF teams. Right now, Kespa isn't there yet but they CAN get there.
On October 29 2012 10:24 FlukyS wrote: Id say eSF teams should be allowed to join pro league to fill in for the closed teams. Like what would be the harm?
because 1, possibly 2 teams would be going against eSF, which I dont think any of them would ever do.
Maybe Fnatic would join PL, but they dont have any high profile players. None of the eSF teams would leave eSF and go to PL.
On October 29 2012 10:24 FlukyS wrote: Id say eSF teams should be allowed to join pro league to fill in for the closed teams. Like what would be the harm?
because 1, possibly 2 teams would be going against eSF, which I dont think any of them would ever do.
Maybe Fnatic would join PL, but they dont have any high profile players. None of the eSF teams would leave eSF and go to PL.
PL is organised by KeSPA, but do you have to be part of KeSPA to play in PL?
On October 29 2012 10:24 FlukyS wrote: Id say eSF teams should be allowed to join pro league to fill in for the closed teams. Like what would be the harm?
because 1, possibly 2 teams would be going against eSF, which I dont think any of them would ever do.
Maybe Fnatic would join PL, but they dont have any high profile players. None of the eSF teams would leave eSF and go to PL.
I think given the chance some of them might, if it brings them big sponsors and their players significant salaries. I think a lot of ESF players will end up retiring if they can't make it big in the next months since they are getting paid jack shit to do the same thing as kespa players.
Kespa salaries are also going to go down across the board compared to 2010 BW I'm sure, decreased interest compared to LoL and all.
The korean SC2 scene isn't big enough to sustain 14 teams.
It'd be awesome to have Proleague with all the eSF/Kespa teams and GOM in charge of broadcasting it internationally but I'm pretty sure such thing will never happen.
On October 29 2012 10:24 FlukyS wrote: Id say eSF teams should be allowed to join pro league to fill in for the closed teams. Like what would be the harm?
because 1, possibly 2 teams would be going against eSF, which I dont think any of them would ever do.
Maybe Fnatic would join PL, but they dont have any high profile players. None of the eSF teams would leave eSF and go to PL.
I think given the chance some of them might, if it brings them big sponsors and their players significant salaries. I think a lot of ESF players will end up retiring if they can't make it big in the next months since they are getting paid jack shit to do the same thing as kespa players.
Kespa salaries are also going to go down across the board compared to 2010 BW I'm sure, decreased interest compared to LoL and all.
Sadly, I think this is true as well.
I think SC2 will become somewhat like WC3 in terms of its status as an e-sport. It will be nowhere near as lucrative as BW was in Korea but will continue to have a niche globally. In Korea, enough players will continue to pursue SC2 but I wouldn't expect any of them to make as much money as they used to in BW. Still, SC2 will survive there as well and, if Moon was any indication back in WC3's heyday, Koreans will still "own white dudes", just not as hard as before. Foreigners can still catch up though if they're willing to make structured practice environments with dedicated coaching staff.
Anyway, going back to topic, with the financial future of SC2 not looking bright (to most people) I think Kespa and eSF have to learn to share the ball not just among themselves but with the rest of the global community. Kespa is doing well to partner with MLG, but partnerships with DH and others would be great for the Korean SC2 community. As is, Korean SC2 is the holy grail of skill but it doesn't seem like it's the holy grail for the players' pockets. Kespa and eSF have to go where the money is and they're gonna have to work together as well.
kespa/eSF league is impossible. A league needs a central governing body to function. With the bad blood between the two, any mishap will be difficult to solve and the league will come to a halt.
Hopefully kespa will invite other teams into PL. Don't know the possibility of that. Possible that fnatic or EG join PL? Maybe even FXO leaving eSF and heading over to kespa. O.o
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
lol what about Hyvaa? He recently 4-1ed Rain and he's 4-5 according to TLPD. So that alone counters your "hype" argument. There are probably a lot more top notch Kespa players out there that you just don't know about yet because they haven't been brought to light. In due time, my friend.
On October 29 2012 11:44 Laryleprakon wrote: It would be amazing to see every Korean team stay alive and profitable atm I think there are just to many.
How many teams did BW have during its peak compared to how many we have atm.
In its Peak, 11 teams + 1 team (ACE) sponsored by the military (Airforce).
On October 29 2012 11:58 silent_owl wrote: In short, the way things are now, we will see teams disband. It's only a question of who and when.
This
To tell you what I think will happen, KESPA teams will lose sponsors ( have you seen the last OSL? pathetic), and their A-team players will get not even 10% of their actual salary, so will retire. Kespa will be dead in a few years.. right now the state of SC2 can only allow korean teams that don't really pay their players.
I knew something bad was going to happen to Team 8.... No sponsorship and just made out of nothing. Hopefully another Kespa team doesn't die. Airforce ACE going is bad enough :/
KeSPA gave a year for Team 8 to find a sponsor and therefore fulfilled a years salary for its players. There is no way they will be doing it again, especially after four of its members (Movie, Tyson, by.hero, Sea) left the team.
I'd be shocked if the team was still running by the start of next year.
On October 29 2012 12:08 slytown wrote: Liquid_Jaedong. It's gonna happen.
Dunno if any foreign team can afford jaedong. I guess it really depends what happens when team 8 falls apart since it looks like they aren't going to get a sponsor. Sigh just hope jaedong doesn't retire :/
On October 29 2012 12:08 slytown wrote: Liquid_Jaedong. It's gonna happen.
Dunno if any foreign team can afford jaedong. I guess it really depends what happens when team 8 falls apart since it looks like they aren't going to get a sponsor. Sigh just hope jaedong doesn't retire :/
I think most top tier BW pros who performed well are having difficult period how to handle SC2. If they don't do well then I'd say they should retire or switch to LOL. Perhaps I sound pessimistic but going SC2 proleague isn't right call at the moment. They need to wait a bit longer.
On October 29 2012 12:08 slytown wrote: Liquid_Jaedong. It's gonna happen.
Dunno if any foreign team can afford jaedong. I guess it really depends what happens when team 8 falls apart since it looks like they aren't going to get a sponsor. Sigh just hope jaedong doesn't retire :/
On October 29 2012 12:32 Incanus wrote: So much doomsaying when SC2 is probably at its all time high.
I don't know about that but you are right that the situation is still very positive. The Foreigner community is still going strong and while there has been an obvious drop in viewer numbers, we are still far ahead of most other Esports. I mean at every MLG/DH there are always other games present none of which have the viewer numbers that SC2 does(not including LoL). So we have a long way to go before our tournaments dry up. With Blizzard now sponsoring the awesome WCS and HotS on the horizon there are a lot of things to look forward to in SC2 esports. I think our community has begun to shrink down to its more core audience which frightens people but the fears are mostly over blown.
However yeah the Korean scene seems like its in a lot of trouble... It seems like rather than the Kespa transition bringing in a larger audience it has just divided the already small audience. Which in a worst case scenario might cause both organizations to fold...
I'm fine with the KESPA scene collapsing, as I predicted (not a bold prediction or unique obv!). They alienated their existing BW fanbase out of a false belief that the Korean SC2 interest was large enough to support their league. All they did was accelerate their destruction. I feel that no amount of success in MLG or Code S success of a few can fill up their empty seats at proleague matches.
Many players will either move on to LoL, go back to Afreeca, or join foreign teams. They will be fine.
On October 29 2012 12:08 slytown wrote: Liquid_Jaedong. It's gonna happen.
Dunno if any foreign team can afford jaedong. I guess it really depends what happens when team 8 falls apart since it looks like they aren't going to get a sponsor. Sigh just hope jaedong doesn't retire :/
EG's been trying to recruit him.
It'd be a good way to kill my soul ;;
He's passed his prime any way. Might as well go to EG.
On October 29 2012 12:56 MountainDewJunkie wrote: + Show Spoiler +
I'm fine with the KESPA scene collapsing, as I predicted (not a bold prediction or unique obv!). They alienated their existing BW fanbase out of a false belief that the Korean SC2 interest was large enough to support their league. All they did was accelerate their destruction. I feel that no amount of success in MLG or Code S success of a few can fill up their empty seats at proleague matches.
Many players will either move on to LoL, go back to Afreeca, or join foreign teams. They will be fine.
My feelings too. In fact all I'm seeing is the upside of having many more ex-pros streaming on Afreeca.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Based on what? You haven't seen a lot of Kespa players play in ages, unless you count some of MVP for some of them. Flash BARELY didn't make code S, and still could have done so if it weren't for a dumb tiebreak system. Sometimes it can take a while to see a player's true potential.
For example, if you judged Bisu solely on individual leagues a couple years back, you could say that he was just some B-team player. Meanwhile, he breaks the proleague record for most wins. Saying that none of the Kespa players except for a few are any good based on so little time and so few results is just ridiculous.
Technically, the team has not disbanded yet, and theoretically there could be a bunch of major sponsors around the corner who would jump on it so that Jaedong wears their t-shirt. And if that happens, the team would afford to buy new / other players.
This whole tendency to dig the grave before someone is dead is becoming annoying. If the team disbands, we'll hear about it, don't worry.
On October 29 2012 13:06 figq wrote: Technically, the team has not disbanded yet, and theoretically there could be a bunch of major sponsors around the corner who would jump on it so that Jaedong wears their t-shirt. And if that happens, the team would afford to buy new / other players.
This whole tendency to dig the grave before someone is dead is becoming annoying. If the team disbands, we'll hear about it, don't worry.
You're right, but that "around the corner" scenario has been in existence for a year.
On October 29 2012 13:06 figq wrote: Technically, the team has not disbanded yet, and theoretically there could be a bunch of major sponsors around the corner who would jump on it so that Jaedong wears their t-shirt. And if that happens, the team would afford to buy new / other players.
This whole tendency to dig the grave before someone is dead is becoming annoying. If the team disbands, we'll hear about it, don't worry.
You're right, but that "around the corner" scenario has been in existence for a year.
LG to co-opt T8 into LG-IM? Biggest Korean company never to sponsor a BW team
On October 29 2012 13:06 figq wrote: Technically, the team has not disbanded yet, and theoretically there could be a bunch of major sponsors around the corner who would jump on it so that Jaedong wears their t-shirt. And if that happens, the team would afford to buy new / other players.
This whole tendency to dig the grave before someone is dead is becoming annoying. If the team disbands, we'll hear about it, don't worry.
Exactly. Amen.
And I'm sure this topic (too few teams, sponsorships) is being addressed at the weekly talks in Korea between Blizzard, KeSPA, OGN, eSF, and GOM. They'll come up with a solution in time. The sky isn't falling yet.
On October 29 2012 13:45 Chriscras wrote: OMG an ESF vs. Kespa Team League could have home and away games at the GSL and OSL studios respectively <3
I think this would actually be pretty awesome and potentially give both GOM and OGN a lot of views, which would be quite good for the scene. Wonder if they've thought of that already and can't do it, or are discussing it. Maybe someone can suggest it to them if they haven't had the idea yet (doubtful since both are big companies and probably smart.)
On October 29 2012 13:45 Chriscras wrote: OMG an ESF vs. Kespa Team League could have home and away games at the GSL and OSL studios respectively <3
i didn't really think to much of the league really, since i wasn't around in BW but that idea so good, given me hype on how cool that could be. The more i think about it, the more i want the kespa vs esf.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
It's confirmed that a small minority of the KESPA players are top tier at SC2, just like with ESF players? You're right, it is.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
So, how are those "real talents" doing ??
If GSL gave 16 seeds in code S to KeSPA players last season like OSL did, you will see a KeSPA player take the gold.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
So, how are those "real talents" doing ??
All of the KeSPA players are still improving way faster than basically all of the eSF players. A few KeSPA players have already caught up to or surpassed all the eSF players. In 6 months they will have improved beyond that.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
So, how are those "real talents" doing ??
All of the KeSPA players are still improving way faster than basically all of the eSF players. A few KeSPA players have already caught up to or surpassed all the eSF players. In 6 months they will have improved beyond that.
All of the kespa players have improved that much because they had all the vods, replays
and coaches. Also you dont really seem to understand the concept of diminishing returns.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
So, how are those "real talents" doing ??
All of the KeSPA players are still improving way faster than basically all of the eSF players. A few KeSPA players have already caught up to or surpassed all the eSF players. In 6 months they will have improved beyond that.
All of the kespa players have improved that much because they had all the vods, replays
and coaches. Also you dont really seem to understand the concept of diminishing returns.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
So, how are those "real talents" doing ??
Yeah, I mean look at how many tournaments these players have had the opportunity to play in recently! Jaedong has only played in MVP recently, where he went overall 50% against Oz, Alicia, Alive, Puma and Crank. He 2-0ed MC, but I believe those were forfeits? Flash went 9-3. Bisu went 5-7. Stork went 50%. So, what exactly are you expecting from these players who've had hardly anything to play in for a while?
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
So, how are those "real talents" doing ??
Yeah, I mean look at how many tournaments these players have had the opportunity to play in recently! Jaedong has only played in MVP recently, where he went overall 50% against Oz, Alicia, Alive, Puma and Crank. He 2-0ed MC, but I believe those were forfeits? Flash went 9-3. Bisu went 5-7. Stork went 50%. So, what exactly are you expecting from these players who've had hardly anything to play in for a while?
To be fair, oz, alicia, alive, puma and crank are code a players at best (most of them are in code b). i agree that most kespa players seem to be around A-level atm, but we'll see better in more time.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
Are you kidding? The hype is over. Rain, Bogus and Roro/Soulkey are the only ones that lived up to the hype. Flash, JD, Stork and Bisu are all Code A level. Flash maybe improving extremely fast but eSF players aren't going to stop improving.
Yes, hype is over, because it is already confirmed.
Confirmed??
I wonder what so called TBLS are doing right now.. hmm.................
Not to even mention that none of the kespa players made it out of up&down matches.
So, how are those "real talents" doing ??
If GSL gave 16 seeds in code S to KeSPA players last season like OSL did, you will see a KeSPA player take the gold.
kespa needed those 8 ESF seeds to legitimise their tournament. otherwise it'd be another disaster like hybrid PL
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
StarTale have Bomber, Curious, Life, Squirtle, Parting IM has 10 GSL Wins among their players (Counting MC as a GSTL player for IM)
IM is the perennial TL underperformer. MC loses constantly in TL formats. Nestea (the source of 3 of those GSL wins) is pretty much dead as a player of late. MVP frequently doesn't play even when he's available.
So yeah, they could lose to a kespa team easily. Especially since without king of the hill format they couldn't rely on one player having an awesome streak the way a lot of ESF teams do. TSL's run where they basically had a team consisting of Symbol and no-one else comes to mind.
I don't think many people consider how different a Pro League format would be for ESF teams. Remove the King of the Hill format, force them to go deep into their roster to win it, and quite a few of the ESF teams would flounder, because the current team league format doesn't usually require them to do so (and when they get in trouble and are forced to, many of those teams lose horribly because they rely on one or two players to give them any wins they get).
Startale would probably dominate in a Pro League format though, because they have a deep roster of very good players.
IM SHOULD dominate, but they specalize in playing to lose.
On October 29 2012 15:00 GTPGlitch wrote: FXO's enxt acquisition will be T8 :D
That will be good, but fxo guys will still need a license to play in proleague. Don't know how KeSPA can solve this problem if a merge is coming, or some other teams join proleague.
I think that it is inevitable that kespa and esf will have to combine eventually in order to keep starcraft going in Korea. For the next proleague kespa only has seven teams, one of which does not have a sponser. GSTL is down to seven teams once slayers leaves. That makes 14 teams, which I sadly think is actually too many for korean starcraft to support at the moment. I think that Team 8 and NSH will probably not last too much longer, bringing the number to 12, which is a good number for a hybrid team league between Gom and OGN. OGN could have the tv rights while Gom controls the online rights or something like that. Consolidation is only natural for sports, look at MLB, the NBA, or the NFL. All three of those are a national sports leagues that were formed when two seperate leagues came together for the good of the sport.
edit: Before anyone calls me on it, I know I forgot about Fnatic. I still don't think that changes anything though.
The world's first military progaming team Air Force Ace is disbanding. The reason is said to be because Star League is coming to an end after 13 years.
On the 23rd according to the Air Force, Ace is no longer accepting new players and once the current team members are discharged from the military the team will naturally be disbanded.
There are currently 11 players left in the team and once the last officer who was drafted on March 5th is discharged in March 2014, the team will disband.
On October 29 2012 13:06 figq wrote: Technically, the team has not disbanded yet, and theoretically there could be a bunch of major sponsors around the corner who would jump on it so that Jaedong wears their t-shirt. And if that happens, the team would afford to buy new / other players.
This whole tendency to dig the grave before someone is dead is becoming annoying. If the team disbands, we'll hear about it, don't worry.
Exactly. Amen.
And I'm sure this topic (too few teams, sponsorships) is being addressed at the weekly talks in Korea between Blizzard, KeSPA, OGN, eSF, and GOM. They'll come up with a solution in time. The sky isn't falling yet.
These are good points. I agree. I guess sometimes the community also has to admit that the organizations involved know more about their own problems than the community.
Let's have faith. Korean SC2 is not dead yet and there is no indication that it really is going to die.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
StarTale have Bomber, Curious, Life, Squirtle, Parting IM has 10 GSL Wins among their players (Counting MC as a GSTL player for IM)
IM is the perennial TL underperformer. MC loses constantly in TL formats. Nestea (the source of 3 of those GSL wins) is pretty much dead as a player of late. MVP frequently doesn't play even when he's available.
So yeah, they could lose to a kespa team easily. Especially since without king of the hill format they couldn't rely on one player having an awesome streak the way a lot of ESF teams do. TSL's run where they basically had a team consisting of Symbol and no-one else comes to mind.
I don't think many people consider how different a Pro League format would be for ESF teams. Remove the King of the Hill format, force them to go deep into their roster to win it, and quite a few of the ESF teams would flounder, because the current team league format doesn't usually require them to do so (and when they get in trouble and are forced to, many of those teams lose horribly because they rely on one or two players to give them any wins they get).
Startale would probably dominate in a Pro League format though, because they have a deep roster of very good players.
IM SHOULD dominate, but they specalize in playing to lose.
These are good points. PL has quite a different format that guarantees that the presence of one player can only bring the team past a certain point unlike GSTL wherein any one player having an awesome day can win it all for his team.
ST and IM would still be very powerful teams if they were put in PL but they'd also be extremely powerful teams even if you put them in GSTL using the tournament format PL uses.
As for the other eSF teams, I don't think any of them are THAT much better than Kespa teams anymore and with HotS coming wherein NO ONE will have a headstart in the new metagame, it isn't unreasonable to think that a merged team league would be unfair for either side.
On October 29 2012 09:30 Salazarz wrote: People saying eSF teams would have 'an easy road to victory' vs KeSPA teams need a reality check, lol.
StarTale have Bomber, Curious, Life, Squirtle, Parting IM has 10 GSL Wins among their players (Counting MC as a GSTL player for IM)
IM is the perennial TL underperformer. MC loses constantly in TL formats. Nestea (the source of 3 of those GSL wins) is pretty much dead as a player of late. MVP frequently doesn't play even when he's available.
So yeah, they could lose to a kespa team easily. Especially since without king of the hill format they couldn't rely on one player having an awesome streak the way a lot of ESF teams do. TSL's run where they basically had a team consisting of Symbol and no-one else comes to mind.
I don't think many people consider how different a Pro League format would be for ESF teams. Remove the King of the Hill format, force them to go deep into their roster to win it, and quite a few of the ESF teams would flounder, because the current team league format doesn't usually require them to do so (and when they get in trouble and are forced to, many of those teams lose horribly because they rely on one or two players to give them any wins they get).
Startale would probably dominate in a Pro League format though, because they have a deep roster of very good players.
IM SHOULD dominate, but they specalize in playing to lose.
Yes, IM underperformed considering their roster. However, they are still one of the most successful teams in team leagues (GSTL, IPL TAC, etc). They still have one of the deepest teams (along with ST) on the eSF side. For the Kespa side, it is hard to tell at the moment because since PL has been over, we haven't seen a lot of their non top tiers players play. Even MvP only had 3-4 players from each team. I think we will get a better idea on Nov 10-11 from the Code A Qualifiers.
If in the likely event of Team 8 disbanding I would say that Fnatic will be brought on as new 8th team.
They're not ESF and they've already featured their players in advertising. They have a team house meaning they should be staying around for the time being and won't necessarily blow the competition out of the water with too much skill. (tho i think that Kespa players are already pretty much caught up in terms of gereral skill)
EPT
BaBy 
Jaedong 
Jaehoon 
