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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
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pretty professional reply from IM's coach. respect for him.
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..............and two years worth of e-sports drama comes out. Sad to see SlayerS go, I had no idea so much negativity was going on behind closed doors all this time.
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On October 18 2012 06:44 Mensol wrote:Show nested quote +Crank claims that he only planned to play SC2 till the end of this year, and he left the team so he could play the game comfortably, but we'll have to see if that's true. Just in case he wants to change his story later, I recorded his call. My God. What is wrong with her?
Not surprising considering her "bad" reputation. Just wants to make sure no false information gets spread regarding the Crank incident, even though one call's not enough to pin s.o. down.
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On October 18 2012 06:43 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:36 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 06:31 ggrrg wrote:On October 18 2012 06:13 geokilla wrote:Obviously the liar doesn't deny that they lied... Is there really a lie or anything, we won't know unless there's legal action taken and we hear from different sides. Right now, we heard from SlayersJessica, and to me, it sounds like she's willing to take everyone down with her while expressing her feelings for her players as someone who loves them and wants them to do their very best. It's hard to believe this Manager J had such an influence on everyone. It's like he single handedly destroyed Slayers, while at the same time making eSf and the players look like the bad guys. Looks like I was right. Can we have all the article links put in the OP? That way it makes it easier for us to read it. There's currently like 80 pages to go through... This thread will probably get up to like 300. If you had taken the time to read more than a post or two in this thread you would have seen that actually you are (almost) completely wrong. 1. ESF fucked over slayers big time by prohibiting their players to train with slayers' players. (confirmed by startale coach and to some degree by alicia himself) 2. Slayers did not pouch Ganzi. Ganzi decided by himself to leave IM and ask slayers to join. They actually rejected him at first. (confirmed by IM coach) 3. J harmed slayers badly. (confirmed by Alicia) Whatever mistakes Jessica might have made as a manager become irrelevant when looking at the main problems (1 and 3), which have had by far the worst impact on the team. Also, you shouldn't take Alicia's statements about how the players were treated at face value yet (just like Jessica's statements on player interaction), since both might try to make themselves look better. From your list, 1. maybe she and Boxer could have made a negotiation with SC2Con so that Slayers players were not ostracized. 2. not Slayers fault, it seems. 3. Miscommunication (or lack of communication) is the problem. And misjudgement in hiring Mr. J Point 1 is hard to address when the Federation denies it's happening. How're you going to come to an agreement with them about something they refuse to admit they're doing? And 3? There's no miscommunication there. It's a straight-up power play from the manager. Isolate the person at the top, take the players with you and start a new team using the contacts you gained at your old one. It's a malicious act. Yes, misjudgement played a part, but to suggest it's an innocent misunderstanding between Monsieur J and Jessica is foolish.
I didn't mean that there was a misunderstanding between Jessica and Mr J. The problem was that Jessica's personality has distanced the players from her, and she couldn't discover the root of the problem (Mr J) until it was too late. That's what I mean by lack of communication. (between Jessica and the players). Her personality might also indirectly help Mr J accomplish his fraud easier, as the players didn't have lots of trust in Jessica from the start.
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Won't pretend I think anyone is totally innocent here but honestly it does sound a lot like S2con and later ESF pretty much screwed over SlayerS with this practice ban thing. And then their international manager (who frankly they apparently should absolutely not have hired) left them adrift as well with regards to sponsors. As a team those two things together were a hell of a problem. Absolutely ridiculous that this happened to a team like this.
Jessica's relationship with the players and her handling of them is something of a different matter, I feel, because that is only related to precisely which players are likely to play for the team (that is to say players who don't get along with her would want to leave, but you'd still get SOME people prepared to put up with it regardless of what its like merely to be able to play pro Starcraft 2); not something likely to cause a disband in itself.
I really feel for Genius and Boxer here. Genius was teamless for ages and finally got picked up, now the team is disbanding after just a couple of months. And Boxer...man to pour your money, heart and soul into a project like this for it all to fall apart. Got to hurt. 
Edit: Although the post above mine does highlight how any relationship problems could be a contributory factor.
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Is Manager J the dude that managed their twitter and facebook page? If so, his English is very very good and I can understand why she let him negotiate with the foreign sponsors like Intel. We don't know what his character is like but if he's a greedy person, I can actually see the scenario of him declining sponsor ship, lying about it and then wanted to create a new team.
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On October 18 2012 06:47 MyNameIsAlex wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:31 ggrrg wrote:On October 18 2012 06:13 geokilla wrote:Obviously the liar doesn't deny that they lied... Is there really a lie or anything, we won't know unless there's legal action taken and we hear from different sides. Right now, we heard from SlayersJessica, and to me, it sounds like she's willing to take everyone down with her while expressing her feelings for her players as someone who loves them and wants them to do their very best. It's hard to believe this Manager J had such an influence on everyone. It's like he single handedly destroyed Slayers, while at the same time making eSf and the players look like the bad guys. Looks like I was right. Can we have all the article links put in the OP? That way it makes it easier for us to read it. There's currently like 80 pages to go through... This thread will probably get up to like 300. If you had taken the time to read more than a post or two in this thread you would have seen that actually you are (almost) completely wrong. 1. ESF fucked over slayers big time by prohibiting their players to train with slayers' players. (confirmed by startale coach and to some degree by alicia himself) 2. Slayers did not pouch Ganzi. Ganzi decided by himself to leave IM and ask slayers to join. They actually rejected him at first. (confirmed by IM coach) 3. J harmed slayers badly. (confirmed by Alicia) Whatever mistakes Jessica might have made as a manager become irrelevant when looking at the main problems (1 and 3), which have had by far the worst impact on the team. Also, you shouldn't take Alicia's statements about how the players were treated at face value yet (just like Jessica's statements on player interaction), since both might try to make themselves look better. 1. this is slayers fault, when you reject partnership with the ESF you should also consider the consequences 2. Could of been handled better but its not Slayers fault at all. 3. Who hired J in the first place ???
This isn't fucking Machiavellian Italy. No one should be getting assassinated in an opera house over this shit. If you don't enter partnership with the ESF, then that's that. The idea of an underground, unacknowledged blacklist is fucking abhorrent.
Mistaken judgement in hiring sucks, but it ain't like Jessica hired someone who was all "Hey, I'mma rip you off, just so ya know!"
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I've been drinking an obscene amount, on the behest of Cella, and you know what? I am still devastated. Sigh.
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On October 18 2012 06:49 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:43 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On October 18 2012 06:36 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 06:31 ggrrg wrote:On October 18 2012 06:13 geokilla wrote:Obviously the liar doesn't deny that they lied... Is there really a lie or anything, we won't know unless there's legal action taken and we hear from different sides. Right now, we heard from SlayersJessica, and to me, it sounds like she's willing to take everyone down with her while expressing her feelings for her players as someone who loves them and wants them to do their very best. It's hard to believe this Manager J had such an influence on everyone. It's like he single handedly destroyed Slayers, while at the same time making eSf and the players look like the bad guys. Looks like I was right. Can we have all the article links put in the OP? That way it makes it easier for us to read it. There's currently like 80 pages to go through... This thread will probably get up to like 300. If you had taken the time to read more than a post or two in this thread you would have seen that actually you are (almost) completely wrong. 1. ESF fucked over slayers big time by prohibiting their players to train with slayers' players. (confirmed by startale coach and to some degree by alicia himself) 2. Slayers did not pouch Ganzi. Ganzi decided by himself to leave IM and ask slayers to join. They actually rejected him at first. (confirmed by IM coach) 3. J harmed slayers badly. (confirmed by Alicia) Whatever mistakes Jessica might have made as a manager become irrelevant when looking at the main problems (1 and 3), which have had by far the worst impact on the team. Also, you shouldn't take Alicia's statements about how the players were treated at face value yet (just like Jessica's statements on player interaction), since both might try to make themselves look better. From your list, 1. maybe she and Boxer could have made a negotiation with SC2Con so that Slayers players were not ostracized. 2. not Slayers fault, it seems. 3. Miscommunication (or lack of communication) is the problem. And misjudgement in hiring Mr. J Point 1 is hard to address when the Federation denies it's happening. How're you going to come to an agreement with them about something they refuse to admit they're doing? And 3? There's no miscommunication there. It's a straight-up power play from the manager. Isolate the person at the top, take the players with you and start a new team using the contacts you gained at your old one. It's a malicious act. Yes, misjudgement played a part, but to suggest it's an innocent misunderstanding between Monsieur J and Jessica is foolish. I didn't mean that there was a misunderstanding between Jessica and Mr J. The problem was that Jessica's personality has distanced the players from her, and she couldn't discover the root of the problem (Mr J) until it was too late. That's what I mean by lack of communication. (between Jessica and the players). Her personality might also indirectly help Mr J accomplish his fraud easier, as the players didn't have lots of trust in Jessica from the start.
Ah. That I can see, I guess.
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Alicia complains that he didn't even get a congratulation for his good individual league finishes. So what is all the Jessica tweets about trying to console him for the loss and asking about how they are taking care of food and such. And when all the winnings of team leagues are split among the players, how can a team owner and coach not care about it. Was Alicia not a member of a team that would benefit from team's success in GSTL? Was he just some independent hired gun?
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On October 18 2012 06:50 LuckoftheIrish wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:47 MyNameIsAlex wrote:On October 18 2012 06:31 ggrrg wrote:On October 18 2012 06:13 geokilla wrote:Obviously the liar doesn't deny that they lied... Is there really a lie or anything, we won't know unless there's legal action taken and we hear from different sides. Right now, we heard from SlayersJessica, and to me, it sounds like she's willing to take everyone down with her while expressing her feelings for her players as someone who loves them and wants them to do their very best. It's hard to believe this Manager J had such an influence on everyone. It's like he single handedly destroyed Slayers, while at the same time making eSf and the players look like the bad guys. Looks like I was right. Can we have all the article links put in the OP? That way it makes it easier for us to read it. There's currently like 80 pages to go through... This thread will probably get up to like 300. If you had taken the time to read more than a post or two in this thread you would have seen that actually you are (almost) completely wrong. 1. ESF fucked over slayers big time by prohibiting their players to train with slayers' players. (confirmed by startale coach and to some degree by alicia himself) 2. Slayers did not pouch Ganzi. Ganzi decided by himself to leave IM and ask slayers to join. They actually rejected him at first. (confirmed by IM coach) 3. J harmed slayers badly. (confirmed by Alicia) Whatever mistakes Jessica might have made as a manager become irrelevant when looking at the main problems (1 and 3), which have had by far the worst impact on the team. Also, you shouldn't take Alicia's statements about how the players were treated at face value yet (just like Jessica's statements on player interaction), since both might try to make themselves look better. 1. this is slayers fault, when you reject partnership with the ESF you should also consider the consequences 2. Could of been handled better but its not Slayers fault at all. 3. Who hired J in the first place ??? This isn't fucking Machiavellian Italy. No one should be getting assassinated in an opera house over this shit. If you don't enter partnership with the ESF, then that's that. The idea of an underground, unacknowledged blacklist is fucking abhorrent. Mistaken judgement in hiring sucks, but it ain't like Jessica hired someone who was all "Hey, I'mma rip you off, just so ya know!"
It's a damnable Machiavellian world we live in.
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A pattern that has surfaced really quickly after reading all the info is that most involved blames Jessica, and that Jessica blames these people in return.
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I knew it was going down hill when Boxer left...Wow... I loved SlayerS :'(
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On October 18 2012 00:41 Clefairy wrote:
Jessica is from the entertainment industry so she's extra sensitive and meticulous about contracts and this sort of stuff. I don't doubt that she's been keeping a ton of records and evidence for every slight she faced in the eSports scene over the past 2 years all for this one moment (you can tell she has just by looking through her old tweets). Should be interesting to see what happens once the eSF gives their side of the story and Jessica refutes it with something from her logs.
this. I don't think Jessica is lying. She keeps tracks/email-cat logs/phone recordings of everything. If she's willing to defend herself or sue other people with all the documentations and evidence she has, why the hell would she need to lie in her story?
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On October 18 2012 06:52 sihyunie wrote:
Alicia complains that he didn't even get a congratulation for his good individual league finishes. So what is all the Jessica tweets about trying to console him for the loss and asking about how they are taking care of food and such. And when all the winnings of team leagues are split among the players, how can a team owner and coach not care about it. Was Alicia not a member of a team that would benefit from team's success in GSTL? Was he just some independent hired gun?
Clearly this belongs to management problem and guess who is responsible? Or wait, she already said she is the 'victim'(victim1) but who is the 'victim'(victim2) of 'victim'? Ironically, victim1 blame victim2 for her victim.
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So the "Esports federation", manager J and MMA are the bad guys? Thats too bad.
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WigglingSquid
5194 Posts
On October 18 2012 06:52 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:50 LuckoftheIrish wrote:On October 18 2012 06:47 MyNameIsAlex wrote:On October 18 2012 06:31 ggrrg wrote:On October 18 2012 06:13 geokilla wrote:Obviously the liar doesn't deny that they lied... Is there really a lie or anything, we won't know unless there's legal action taken and we hear from different sides. Right now, we heard from SlayersJessica, and to me, it sounds like she's willing to take everyone down with her while expressing her feelings for her players as someone who loves them and wants them to do their very best. It's hard to believe this Manager J had such an influence on everyone. It's like he single handedly destroyed Slayers, while at the same time making eSf and the players look like the bad guys. Looks like I was right. Can we have all the article links put in the OP? That way it makes it easier for us to read it. There's currently like 80 pages to go through... This thread will probably get up to like 300. If you had taken the time to read more than a post or two in this thread you would have seen that actually you are (almost) completely wrong. 1. ESF fucked over slayers big time by prohibiting their players to train with slayers' players. (confirmed by startale coach and to some degree by alicia himself) 2. Slayers did not pouch Ganzi. Ganzi decided by himself to leave IM and ask slayers to join. They actually rejected him at first. (confirmed by IM coach) 3. J harmed slayers badly. (confirmed by Alicia) Whatever mistakes Jessica might have made as a manager become irrelevant when looking at the main problems (1 and 3), which have had by far the worst impact on the team. Also, you shouldn't take Alicia's statements about how the players were treated at face value yet (just like Jessica's statements on player interaction), since both might try to make themselves look better. 1. this is slayers fault, when you reject partnership with the ESF you should also consider the consequences 2. Could of been handled better but its not Slayers fault at all. 3. Who hired J in the first place ??? This isn't fucking Machiavellian Italy. No one should be getting assassinated in an opera house over this shit. If you don't enter partnership with the ESF, then that's that. The idea of an underground, unacknowledged blacklist is fucking abhorrent. Mistaken judgement in hiring sucks, but it ain't like Jessica hired someone who was all "Hey, I'mma rip you off, just so ya know!" It's a damnable Machiavellian world we live in.
Yes, yes, and we're all fishes in the sea, and the bigger fish eats the smaller one. But it's still very funny to watch plankton posturing and biting away at each other like it's world's end, don't you think?
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Ok... time to learn LoL...
JUST KIDDING!
Well.. in all honesty, all I can say is that Slayers disbanding might be a good thing!
Really!
Sometimes it's better to start anew.
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Really sad to see them go, did not see this coming. Obviously a lot of stuff happened before they pulled the plug. Hopefully all the players find teams. Really sad to see Coca and Puzzle switch to LoL
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EPT
