|
Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
On October 18 2012 06:18 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:15 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 06:09 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:06 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 05:47 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 05:44 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 04:09 Kokujin wrote:On October 18 2012 04:05 mikedebo wrote:On October 18 2012 03:25 Cygoris wrote:
You don't disband a successful team because you're butt hurt.
+9999 No, you disband because you have no $ponsors and half your roster is unmotivated/quit Read again please. Money/sponsors wasn't the issue, motivation was not the issue (I'm quite sure even I can find player motivated to play for Slayers) and results were not the issue. Drama, treason and lack of (honest) communication between the Korean SC2 community are the issue. And yes, Slayers was disbanded because she was butt hurt and had enough basically. Yeah but how can you lift an embargo like that... It was a conspiracy against her and now the conspirator has admitted it too Well first of all, Slayers was a very successful team under the embargo. Then you don't wait 2 centuries before publicly addressing the issue. You have to openly complain about it to make it stop. You cannot do that in korea and expect to continue. This kind of revelation was possible because jessica is disbanding slayers. I'm not familiar with their business culture and I'm not judging it. But it sounds really weird that no one ever tried a meeting with ESF and Slayers to fix this mess. They are both losers today, Korean Esport lost today, what did they expect? I'm not saying they were morons, I'm just saying all of this could have been avoided easily with one or two meeting and a written partnership between Slayers and ESF. Jessica met with esf and coach won many times. They wouldnt budge because she doesnt listen and join them
If she failed to find an understanding between her team and the federation it's her responsibility and she should have stepped down and let someone else carry these negotiations.
I'm just speculating like everybody else here, but for pete sake there had to be a way, all of this mess sounds so childish don't you think?
The team had money, talents and results.
And now they're done.
I mean... come on.
|
On October 18 2012 06:19 Enzymatic wrote:
TLDR: Jessica puts the nails in the coffin for SlayerS. Lots of this is a direct result of her terrible PR skills.
Well, I don't think the roots of the problem are in any way about her PR skills. You can blame bad management, but PR has nothing to do with it.
|
On October 18 2012 06:16 sihyunie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:06 tofubeans wrote:
ESFI: Jessica said in the article that you had declined to participate in GSTL.
That was because I really hated what will happen if I lose the match in GSTL. Jessica makes players very uncomfortable after losing their match as she complains about not preparing enough or not practicing enough. As I have said before, she seemed to care more about GSTL than any other leagues, so I was having too much stress about it and did not want more of it.
What a joke. He didn't want to get grilled by team owner after a loss? And what's wrong with team owner caring more about the team league? It's not like she prevented him from participating in other leagues. He would probably cry if he was in a KeSPA team which takes Proleague over everything else and players have to sleep less and use their free time to practice for individual league.
...sorry your attitude is a joke. =/
People don't work better if they sleep less and work the rest of the day. It is the manager's job to motivate people, and sure sometimes there are things to be said to players if they aren't working hard enough, but it's also the manager's job to understand the players and ensure that you motivate each of them in the right way. If Alicia (Alicia isn't it?) felt uncomfortable by the pressure then clearly it's a failure in understanding your players.
Demotivating your player isn't exactly the way to do things.
|
Inevitable, but gosh, so much drama. I can't consume it all in one sitting :-/
|
On October 18 2012 06:22 zestzorb wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:19 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:17 MCXD wrote:On October 18 2012 06:16 sihyunie wrote:On October 18 2012 06:06 tofubeans wrote:
ESFI: Jessica said in the article that you had declined to participate in GSTL.
That was because I really hated what will happen if I lose the match in GSTL. Jessica makes players very uncomfortable after losing their match as she complains about not preparing enough or not practicing enough. As I have said before, she seemed to care more about GSTL than any other leagues, so I was having too much stress about it and did not want more of it.
What a joke. He didn't want to get grilled by team owner after a loss? And what's wrong with team owner caring more about the team league? It's not like she prevented him from participating in other leagues. He would probably cry if he was in a KeSPA team which takes Proleague over everything else and players have to sleep less and use their free time to practice for individual league. It's not the fact she preferred GSTL. It's the fact she preferred it to such a point that she basically didn't give a shit about her individual league focused players. Once again thats what he is saying Personal records of slayers players including alicia tell us otherwise If you believe Jessica, then why not Alicia too? From what I can conclude from both sides, Jessica is bad at managing and motivating while the players are childish and unprofessional.
She and her team had tremendous success in 2011 with two championships on gsl and gstl and one runnerup for gsl and gstl (plus mlg) so she cant be that bad
|
On October 18 2012 06:23 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:17 Noocta wrote:On October 18 2012 06:15 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:11 Noocta wrote:On October 18 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:09 Noocta wrote:
The fact that Jessica was putting players in two categories ' GSTL one and non GSTL one" is already fucking wrong.
It seems that woman had no idea how to manage a team at all. Thats what alicia is saying and his explanation why he didnt wanted to participate in gstl is very childish I don't think so. I would not want to participate if I was blamed for every loss. That's not how you motivate a player to do better. Thats what he is saying. In reality slayers was a 2 time champ and 2 time runner up If you cant motivate the team that results would not have happened. If you don't want to believe any words the guy say, it's your choice. Results should not come before a good atmosphere in the team for me, but that's my opinion. I do believe thats his perception But the comment that he wanted an escort from the airport comes off as childish.. He complains about the bus ride fees.. That cost Below 5000 won from incheon to seoul and in comparison to the price he just won its nothing.. Alicia is the oldest player of slayers and was their first ace.. You would expect him to be more mature
He should be reimbursed for the fees. I agree with you on other points.
|
On October 18 2012 06:24 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:22 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 06:19 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:17 MCXD wrote:On October 18 2012 06:16 sihyunie wrote:On October 18 2012 06:06 tofubeans wrote:
ESFI: Jessica said in the article that you had declined to participate in GSTL.
That was because I really hated what will happen if I lose the match in GSTL. Jessica makes players very uncomfortable after losing their match as she complains about not preparing enough or not practicing enough. As I have said before, she seemed to care more about GSTL than any other leagues, so I was having too much stress about it and did not want more of it.
What a joke. He didn't want to get grilled by team owner after a loss? And what's wrong with team owner caring more about the team league? It's not like she prevented him from participating in other leagues. He would probably cry if he was in a KeSPA team which takes Proleague over everything else and players have to sleep less and use their free time to practice for individual league. It's not the fact she preferred GSTL. It's the fact she preferred it to such a point that she basically didn't give a shit about her individual league focused players. Once again thats what he is saying Personal records of slayers players including alicia tell us otherwise If you believe Jessica, then why not Alicia too? From what I can conclude from both sides, Jessica is bad at managing and motivating while the players are childish and unprofessional. She and her team had tremendous success in 2011 with two championships on gsl and gstl and one runnerup for gsl and gstl (plus mlg) so she cant be that bad
Don't forget that Boxer was with the team at the time.
|
On October 18 2012 06:24 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:22 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 06:19 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:17 MCXD wrote:On October 18 2012 06:16 sihyunie wrote:On October 18 2012 06:06 tofubeans wrote:
ESFI: Jessica said in the article that you had declined to participate in GSTL.
That was because I really hated what will happen if I lose the match in GSTL. Jessica makes players very uncomfortable after losing their match as she complains about not preparing enough or not practicing enough. As I have said before, she seemed to care more about GSTL than any other leagues, so I was having too much stress about it and did not want more of it.
What a joke. He didn't want to get grilled by team owner after a loss? And what's wrong with team owner caring more about the team league? It's not like she prevented him from participating in other leagues. He would probably cry if he was in a KeSPA team which takes Proleague over everything else and players have to sleep less and use their free time to practice for individual league. It's not the fact she preferred GSTL. It's the fact she preferred it to such a point that she basically didn't give a shit about her individual league focused players. Once again thats what he is saying Personal records of slayers players including alicia tell us otherwise If you believe Jessica, then why not Alicia too? From what I can conclude from both sides, Jessica is bad at managing and motivating while the players are childish and unprofessional. She and her team had tremendous success in 2011 with two championships on gsl and gstl and one runnerup for gsl and gstl (plus mlg) so she cant be that bad
It doesn't really talk about her management skill, though. It's more like she had good players. Beside, MMA partly won GSLs because of coach Ryu, not Jessica.
|
On October 18 2012 06:23 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:17 Noocta wrote:On October 18 2012 06:15 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:11 Noocta wrote:On October 18 2012 06:10 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:09 Noocta wrote:
The fact that Jessica was putting players in two categories ' GSTL one and non GSTL one" is already fucking wrong.
It seems that woman had no idea how to manage a team at all. Thats what alicia is saying and his explanation why he didnt wanted to participate in gstl is very childish I don't think so. I would not want to participate if I was blamed for every loss. That's not how you motivate a player to do better. Thats what he is saying. In reality slayers was a 2 time champ and 2 time runner up If you cant motivate the team that results would not have happened. If you don't want to believe any words the guy say, it's your choice. Results should not come before a good atmosphere in the team for me, but that's my opinion. I do believe thats his perception But the comment that he wanted an escort from the airport comes off as childish.. He complains about the bus ride fees.. That cost Below 5000 won from incheon to seoul and in comparison to the price he just won its nothing.. Alicia is the oldest player of slayers and was their first ace.. You would expect him to be more mature
Yeah well, I understand.
I forget sometimes Alicia is like 25 already.
|
On October 18 2012 06:16 sihyunie wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:06 tofubeans wrote:
ESFI: Jessica said in the article that you had declined to participate in GSTL.
That was because I really hated what will happen if I lose the match in GSTL. Jessica makes players very uncomfortable after losing their match as she complains about not preparing enough or not practicing enough. As I have said before, she seemed to care more about GSTL than any other leagues, so I was having too much stress about it and did not want more of it.
What a joke. He didn't want to get grilled by team owner after a loss? And what's wrong with team owner caring more about the team league? It's not like she prevented him from participating in other leagues. He would probably cry if he was in a KeSPA team which takes Proleague over everything else and players have to sleep less and use their free time to practice for individual league.
Stop generalizing like this, its team to team, person to person. KHAN helped and stayed with whole team just so JangBi would have better practice for Jin Air OSL finals. There are probably more examples.
And don't compare Proleague to GSTL, completely different scale and money put in. I bet every god damn Kespa player knew the importance of Proleague before he signed papers.
|
I don't deny that the players were probably immature, but everything Jessica has ever said has made it obvious that she is moody and causes interpersonal problems. I'm sure she's great at other things, but in charge of a team? No.
|
On October 18 2012 06:24 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:22 zestzorb wrote:On October 18 2012 06:19 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:17 MCXD wrote:On October 18 2012 06:16 sihyunie wrote:On October 18 2012 06:06 tofubeans wrote:
ESFI: Jessica said in the article that you had declined to participate in GSTL.
That was because I really hated what will happen if I lose the match in GSTL. Jessica makes players very uncomfortable after losing their match as she complains about not preparing enough or not practicing enough. As I have said before, she seemed to care more about GSTL than any other leagues, so I was having too much stress about it and did not want more of it.
What a joke. He didn't want to get grilled by team owner after a loss? And what's wrong with team owner caring more about the team league? It's not like she prevented him from participating in other leagues. He would probably cry if he was in a KeSPA team which takes Proleague over everything else and players have to sleep less and use their free time to practice for individual league. It's not the fact she preferred GSTL. It's the fact she preferred it to such a point that she basically didn't give a shit about her individual league focused players. Once again thats what he is saying Personal records of slayers players including alicia tell us otherwise If you believe Jessica, then why not Alicia too? From what I can conclude from both sides, Jessica is bad at managing and motivating while the players are childish and unprofessional. She and her team had tremendous success in 2011 with two championships on gsl and gstl and one runnerup for gsl and gstl (plus mlg) so she cant be that bad
As the team she managed has just disbanded and she released the longest press release I have ever seen, detailed each piece of drama in excruciating detail, I would say she was that bad. I don’t think she is evil, but I do think she was not a very good manager, even if her players were incredibly talented.
|
After the first "Jessica"-incident it became painfully clear to me that she has absolutely no business running a team.
|
http://esfiworld.com/news/alicia-slayers-disbanding-looking-foreign-team
Alicia doesnt talk good of Jessica at all.
That confirms my suspicions of Jessicas statement, that something can't be allright when everyone else is guilty.
Jessica often seemed to be not the right one as manager. After Boxers departure things totally fell apart.
There may be some legitimate points in her statement (e.g. ESF), but I feel another manager could have probably handled these more serious problems.
|
On October 18 2012 06:13 geokilla wrote:Obviously the liar doesn't deny that they lied... Is there really a lie or anything, we won't know unless there's legal action taken and we hear from different sides. Right now, we heard from SlayersJessica, and to me, it sounds like she's willing to take everyone down with her while expressing her feelings for her players as someone who loves them and wants them to do their very best. It's hard to believe this Manager J had such an influence on everyone. It's like he single handedly destroyed Slayers, while at the same time making eSf and the players look like the bad guys. Looks like I was right. Can we have all the article links put in the OP? That way it makes it easier for us to read it. There's currently like 80 pages to go through... This thread will probably get up to like 300.
If you had taken the time to read more than a post or two in this thread you would have seen that actually you are (almost) completely wrong.
1. ESF fucked over slayers big time by prohibiting their players to train with slayers' players. (confirmed by startale coach and to some degree by alicia himself)
2. Slayers did not pouch Ganzi. Ganzi decided by himself to leave IM and ask slayers to join. They actually rejected him at first. (confirmed by IM coach)
3. J harmed slayers badly. (confirmed by Alicia)
Whatever mistakes Jessica might have made as a manager become irrelevant when looking at the main problems (1 and 3), which have had by far the worst impact on the team. Also, you shouldn't take Alicia's statements about how the players were treated at face value yet (just like Jessica's statements on player interaction), since both might try to make themselves look better.
|
this whole manager j thing sounds a bit crazy for me.
the most important part beside good players is the financial part so it makes no sense to let a "new guy" do the whole contract extension thing it's like giving ur child a knive and hope for the best.
|
jessica is crazy, boxer why 
gg slayers
|
On October 18 2012 06:23 Cygoris wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:18 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:15 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 06:09 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:06 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 05:47 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 05:44 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 04:09 Kokujin wrote:On October 18 2012 04:05 mikedebo wrote:On October 18 2012 03:25 Cygoris wrote:
You don't disband a successful team because you're butt hurt.
+9999 No, you disband because you have no $ponsors and half your roster is unmotivated/quit Read again please. Money/sponsors wasn't the issue, motivation was not the issue (I'm quite sure even I can find player motivated to play for Slayers) and results were not the issue. Drama, treason and lack of (honest) communication between the Korean SC2 community are the issue. And yes, Slayers was disbanded because she was butt hurt and had enough basically. Yeah but how can you lift an embargo like that... It was a conspiracy against her and now the conspirator has admitted it too Well first of all, Slayers was a very successful team under the embargo. Then you don't wait 2 centuries before publicly addressing the issue. You have to openly complain about it to make it stop. You cannot do that in korea and expect to continue. This kind of revelation was possible because jessica is disbanding slayers. I'm not familiar with their business culture and I'm not judging it. But it sounds really weird that no one ever tried a meeting with ESF and Slayers to fix this mess. They are both losers today, Korean Esport lost today, what did they expect? I'm not saying they were morons, I'm just saying all of this could have been avoided easily with one or two meeting and a written partnership between Slayers and ESF. Jessica met with esf and coach won many times. They wouldnt budge because she doesnt listen and join them If she failed to find an understanding between her team and the federation it's her responsibility and she should have stepped down and let someone else carry these negotiations. I'm just speculating like everybody else here, but for pete sake there had to be a way, all of this mess sounds so childish don't you think? The team had money, talents and results. And now they're done. I mean... come on.
Don't worry bud.
Those players are going to find new homes very fast.
|
On October 18 2012 06:31 ggrrg wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:13 geokilla wrote:Obviously the liar doesn't deny that they lied... Is there really a lie or anything, we won't know unless there's legal action taken and we hear from different sides. Right now, we heard from SlayersJessica, and to me, it sounds like she's willing to take everyone down with her while expressing her feelings for her players as someone who loves them and wants them to do their very best. It's hard to believe this Manager J had such an influence on everyone. It's like he single handedly destroyed Slayers, while at the same time making eSf and the players look like the bad guys. Looks like I was right. Can we have all the article links put in the OP? That way it makes it easier for us to read it. There's currently like 80 pages to go through... This thread will probably get up to like 300. If you had taken the time to read more than a post or two in this thread you would have seen that actually you are (almost) completely wrong. 1. ESF fucked over slayers big time by prohibiting their players to train with slayers' players. (confirmed by startale coach and to some degree by alicia himself) 2. Slayers did not pouch Ganzi. Ganzi decided by himself to leave IM and ask slayers to join. They actually rejected him at first. (confirmed by IM coach) 3. J harmed slayers badly. (confirmed by Alicia) Whatever mistakes Jessica might have made as a manager become irrelevant when looking at the main problems (1 and 3), which have had by far the worst impact on the team. Also, you shouldn't take Alicia's statements about how the players were treated at face value yet (just like Jessica's statements on player interaction), since both might try to make themselves look better.
From your list,
1. maybe she and Boxer could have made a negotiation with SC2Con so that Slayers players were not ostracized.
2. not Slayers fault, it seems.
3. Miscommunication (or lack of communication) is the problem. And misjudgement in hiring Mr. J
|
On October 18 2012 06:34 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 06:23 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 06:18 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:15 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 06:09 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 06:06 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 05:47 farnham wrote:On October 18 2012 05:44 Cygoris wrote:On October 18 2012 04:09 Kokujin wrote:On October 18 2012 04:05 mikedebo wrote:
[quote]
+9999
No, you disband because you have no $ponsors and half your roster is unmotivated/quit Read again please. Money/sponsors wasn't the issue, motivation was not the issue (I'm quite sure even I can find player motivated to play for Slayers) and results were not the issue. Drama, treason and lack of (honest) communication between the Korean SC2 community are the issue. And yes, Slayers was disbanded because she was butt hurt and had enough basically. Yeah but how can you lift an embargo like that... It was a conspiracy against her and now the conspirator has admitted it too Well first of all, Slayers was a very successful team under the embargo. Then you don't wait 2 centuries before publicly addressing the issue. You have to openly complain about it to make it stop. You cannot do that in korea and expect to continue. This kind of revelation was possible because jessica is disbanding slayers. I'm not familiar with their business culture and I'm not judging it. But it sounds really weird that no one ever tried a meeting with ESF and Slayers to fix this mess. They are both losers today, Korean Esport lost today, what did they expect? I'm not saying they were morons, I'm just saying all of this could have been avoided easily with one or two meeting and a written partnership between Slayers and ESF. Jessica met with esf and coach won many times. They wouldnt budge because she doesnt listen and join them If she failed to find an understanding between her team and the federation it's her responsibility and she should have stepped down and let someone else carry these negotiations. I'm just speculating like everybody else here, but for pete sake there had to be a way, all of this mess sounds so childish don't you think? The team had money, talents and results. And now they're done. I mean... come on. Don't worry bud. Those players are going to find new homes very fast.
I'm really unsure it's gonna be that easy.
Look at how long some of the oGs players stayed teamless, even the better ones.
Look at Genius's case, noone wanted of him, and the guy is a freaking GSL finalist.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
