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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 02:55 Gesarjack wrote: Solid trolling effort by ImNightmare, gotta say. All my bridges are belong to you. To be honest, I wasn't trolling. lol. I just didn't get why people felt the need to debate with my opinion or passing remark. :/ | ||
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farnham
1378 Posts
On October 19 2012 02:50 ImNightmare wrote: If you say so bro. Still doesn't change the fact that the facts are against her. What facts? | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
Oh lord here we go again... the fact that her own players left her? esf coaches aren't on friendly terms with her? If its just esf coaches. fine. But if her own players don't like her, its more of a "her" problem then a "their" problem. | ||
Kiett
United States7639 Posts
On October 19 2012 02:56 ImNightmare wrote: To be honest, I wasn't trolling. lol. I just didn't get why people felt the need to debate with my opinion or passing remark. :/ Probably because you were pushing it as fact, and people tend to find such behavior obnoxious. That said, your opinion is irrelevant. A person's actual popularity within a nation has nothing to do with whether you personally think he or she is "big." Pretty sure that's what everyone has been trying to say all along. | ||
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zefreak
United States2731 Posts
On October 19 2012 02:59 ImNightmare wrote: Oh lord here we go again... the fact that her own players left her? esf coaches aren't on friendly terms with her? If its just esf coaches. fine. But if her own players don't like her, its more of a "her" problem then a "their" problem. Interesting heuristic, and one that's probably smart to use if you know nothing about the situation. Not very useful when faced with contrary information, however. | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 02:59 Kiett wrote: Probably because you were pushing it as fact, and people tend to find such behavior obnoxious. That said, your opinion is irrelevant. A person's actual popularity within a nation has nothing to do with whether you personally think he or she is "big." Pretty sure that's what everyone has been trying to say all along. lol I did say she is rarely on main stream news site and being popular means being on main stream news site like newsen a lot. But if people think its my personal opinion then whatever. One thing i realise in this sitatuion is that, the supporters will always support, the haters will always hate. Discussions like this will go nowhere unless MMA steps up and talk or Jessica shows the evidences. | ||
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Fyrewolf
United States1533 Posts
On October 18 2012 19:45 B.I.G. wrote: I for one think that this misterious "J" is none other than Gus Ledesma, E-Sports through arch nemesis. He has claimed yet another victim. But in all seriousness, I think that the only things Jessica can be accused of is being such an overprotective mommy for the slayers players that the couldn't see their wrong doings, and would lash out way to harshly against anyone who was tryin to hurt her "cubs". She might not be the best manager but I do believe her intentions were true. Best conspiracy theory yet, definitely made me laugh, even if we do already know who manager J is. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:01 zefreak wrote: Interesting heuristic, and one that's probably smart to use if you know nothing about the situation. Not very useful when faced with contrary information, however. I don't think the information are contrary. Most of them are just normal friction when you run a business where money and livelihood are involved, and complicated by the fact most people (and all players) involved are young person who have little experience in life and even less in business. Slayers seems to be unable to handle these situations and allow them to snowball out of control. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:02 ImNightmare wrote: lol I did say she is rarely on main stream news site and being popular means being on main stream news site like newsen a lot. But if people think its my personal opinion then whatever. One thing i realise in this sitatuion is that, the supporters will always support, the haters will always hate. Discussions like this will go nowhere unless MMA steps up and talk or Jessica shows the evidences. If you're on mainstream news sites a lot, you're not "popular" - you're a big, shining star. There are plenty of talents who are popular within a nation without having the 'stardom' status. What you're saying is like saying Jim Parsons or Jennifer Carpenter aren't popular because they aren't often on the frontpage Hollywood news. | ||
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farnham
1378 Posts
On October 19 2012 02:59 ImNightmare wrote: Oh lord here we go again... the fact that her own players left her? esf coaches aren't on friendly terms with her? If its just esf coaches. fine. But if her own players don't like her, its more of a "her" problem then a "their" problem. So i understand that esf sc2con or whatever you want to call those coaches wanted slayers to be a part of their circle. Boxer and jessica declined and they wanted to force her in by setting up the practice ban which lasted 10 month according to jessica. The Team practice became harder and harder and players suffered until the whole team collapsed | ||
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lambac0re
United States77 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:02 ImNightmare wrote: ...being popular means being on main stream news site like newsen a lot. I had no idea this was the only qualification for being popular and successful. Who would've thought? | ||
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farnham
1378 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:02 ImNightmare wrote: lol I did say she is rarely on main stream news site and being popular means being on main stream news site like newsen a lot. But if people think its my personal opinion then whatever. One thing i realise in this sitatuion is that, the supporters will always support, the haters will always hate. Discussions like this will go nowhere unless MMA steps up and talk or Jessica shows the evidences. She disclosed emails about the practice ban and about the transition fee | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:06 farnham wrote: So i understand that esf sc2con or whatever you want to call those coaches wanted slayers to be a part of their circle. Boxer and jessica declined and they wanted to force her in by setting up the practice ban which lasted 10 month according to jessica. The Team practice became harder and harder and players suffered until the whole team collapsed If this is true then it's pretty much business as usual. Happens to thousands of startups in other businesses everyday. It's petty and dirty and douche baggy, but that's how you survive as a business. | ||
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ssxsilver
United States4409 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:02 ImNightmare wrote: lol I did say she is rarely on main stream news site and being popular means being on main stream news site like newsen a lot. But if people think its my personal opinion then whatever. One thing i realise in this sitatuion is that, the supporters will always support, the haters will always hate. Discussions like this will go nowhere unless MMA steps up and talk or Jessica shows the evidences. ....seriously?? You can debate the merits of twitter/chat logs all you want, but she seems to be the only one in this whole mess whose posted any such "evidence." | ||
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farnham
1378 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:08 ragz_gt wrote: If this is true then it's pretty much business as usual. Happens to thousands of startups in other businesses everyday. It's petty and dirty and douche baggy, but that's how you survive as a business. yes it prob happens everyday.. Doesnt mean that startale coachs behavior can be justified | ||
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ImNightmare
1575 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:06 farnham wrote: So i understand that esf sc2con or whatever you want to call those coaches wanted slayers to be a part of their circle. Boxer and jessica declined and they wanted to force her in by setting up the practice ban which lasted 10 month according to jessica. The Team practice became harder and harder and players suffered until the whole team collapsed Is esf some part of a reason for the collapse of slayers? Yes I agree. But is it the sole reason? No. Jessica's reasoning is that slayers team and esf were the reason why the team disbanded but she did not state that what she did was wrong. As what a administrator of this site said, she is not accepting the blame that her management skills might have a effect too but rather pushing the blame to others. | ||
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ragz_gt
9172 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:11 farnham wrote: yes it prob happens everyday.. Doesnt mean that startale coachs behavior can be justified I'm not even gonna try. He definitely is not someone I'd want to have a beer with. But when you are in a business, you need to be able to handle those things or you end up... well, where they are now. | ||
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renaissanceMAN
United States1840 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:12 ImNightmare wrote: Is esf some part of a reason for the collapse of slayers? Yes I agree. But is it the sole reason? No. Jessica's reasoning is that slayers team and esf were the reason why the team disbanded but she did not state that what she did was wrong. As what a administrator of this site said, she is not accepting the blame that her management skills might have a effect too but rather pushing the blame to others. She's not innocent, but having an organization the size of the ESF, with much more weight to throw around isn't something you can just avoid. I really believe that the ESF made a grievous error in their actions with Slayers. | ||
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Salazarz
Korea (South)2591 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:12 ImNightmare wrote: Is esf some part of a reason for the collapse of slayers? Yes I agree. But is it the sole reason? No. Jessica's reasoning is that slayers team and esf were the reason why the team disbanded but she did not state that what she did was wrong. As what a administrator of this site said, she is not accepting the blame that her management skills might have a effect too but rather pushing the blame to others. She never said eSF is the sole reason Slayers disbanded... | ||
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kanchome
44 Posts
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer. When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar. Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career) Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft. This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered. Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics. ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred. Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished. There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this. You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us. ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics. Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams. | ||
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