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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
On October 19 2012 03:14 renaissanceMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:12 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 03:06 farnham wrote:On October 19 2012 02:59 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 02:57 farnham wrote:On October 19 2012 02:50 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 02:48 farnham wrote:On October 19 2012 02:42 ImNightmare wrote:I would prefer a newsen source please. m.newstown is good though, but is it about boxer? I dont think i need to provide stories from a source you like. Fact is that she is known outside of the gaming community If you say so bro. Still doesn't change the fact that the facts are against her. What facts? Oh lord here we go again... the fact that her own players left her? esf coaches aren't on friendly terms with her? If its just esf coaches. fine. But if her own players don't like her, its more of a "her" problem then a "their" problem. So i understand that esf sc2con or whatever you want to call those coaches wanted slayers to be a part of their circle. Boxer and jessica declined and they wanted to force her in by setting up the practice ban which lasted 10 month according to jessica. The Team practice became harder and harder and players suffered until the whole team collapsed Is esf some part of a reason for the collapse of slayers? Yes I agree. But is it the sole reason? No. Jessica's reasoning is that slayers team and esf were the reason why the team disbanded but she did not state that what she did was wrong. As what a administrator of this site said, she is not accepting the blame that her management skills might have a effect too but rather pushing the blame to others. She's not innocent, but having an organization the size of the ESF, with much more weight to throw around isn't something you can just avoid. I really believe that the ESF made a grievous error in their actions with Slayers.
yes, both sides are fucked up. And this is just putting the scene into a bad light. The fact that BW fans are calling sc2 players dish washers is already amplified by the fact that the team is being such divas and can't stand hardships
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Hmm. Do we have any translations of the email screens that she uploaded?
Edit: Just curious about what this one says haha.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:
First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
*Slow clap*
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I think we can all agree that what we need is more boxer. I miss having his input on things, and hearing about boxer through jessica isn't enough.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:
First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
sounds like a lot of theorycraft to me
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On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:
First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
This is an angle I hadn't thought about too deeply (obviously I realized Boxer and Jessica collaborated and this wasn't just coming from her). Your point here seems dead on to me. It's really too bad it's come to this, but hopefully this shit storm will actually cause reform for once, instead of complete chaos.
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On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:+ Show Spoiler +First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
Theoretically it sounds good, but the reality is that when you run a business where money and livelihood are involved, conflict of interest occur and things get messy. It's easy to have a dream, but someone needs to work for it with negotiation and cooperation. Slayers failed to do that despite of their intentions. Seems to me Slayers (Boxer, Jessica and other management) is playing house while others are conducting business.
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sigh. this shitstorm makes me really really sad.
Jessica or no other part for that matter seems to be handling it really well. What stunned me the most (I haven't been following SlayerS too actively, so I can't know if it has happened before) is her extremely passive-aggresive attitude.
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On October 19 2012 03:29 SupBrother wrote:
sigh. this shitstorm makes me really really sad.
Jessica or no other part for that matter seems to be handling it really well. What stunned me the most (I haven't been following SlayerS too actively, so I can't know if it has happened before) is her extremely passive-aggresive attitude.
Personally, the only person who I am fucking sad about is Cella. That dude is having it rough man..second time his team disband.. And giving a team your all only to see it fall.
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+ Show Spoiler +On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:
First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
Wow, people reeeeallly worship Boxer over there. The guy sounds like a saint.
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On October 19 2012 03:31 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:29 SupBrother wrote:
sigh. this shitstorm makes me really really sad.
Jessica or no other part for that matter seems to be handling it really well. What stunned me the most (I haven't been following SlayerS too actively, so I can't know if it has happened before) is her extremely passive-aggresive attitude. Personally, the only person who I am fucking sad about is Cella. That dude is having it rough man..second time his team disband.. And giving a team your all only to see it fall.
Sign... and we didn't even get any drunken Cella on stream for this mess. What a clusterfuck.
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On October 19 2012 03:31 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:29 SupBrother wrote:
sigh. this shitstorm makes me really really sad.
Jessica or no other part for that matter seems to be handling it really well. What stunned me the most (I haven't been following SlayerS too actively, so I can't know if it has happened before) is her extremely passive-aggresive attitude. Personally, the only person who I am fucking sad about is Cella. That dude is having it rough man..second time his team disband.. And giving a team your all only to see it fall.
He's my 2nd favorite coach too (behind IM's kang), truly feel bad for him.
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On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:
First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
qft
User was warned for this post
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On October 19 2012 03:08 farnham wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:02 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 02:59 Kiett wrote:On October 19 2012 02:56 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 02:55 Gesarjack wrote:
Solid trolling effort by ImNightmare, gotta say. All my bridges are belong to you. To be honest, I wasn't trolling. lol. I just didn't get why people felt the need to debate with my opinion or passing remark. :/ Probably because you were pushing it as fact, and people tend to find such behavior obnoxious. That said, your opinion is irrelevant. A person's actual popularity within a nation has nothing to do with whether you personally think he or she is "big." Pretty sure that's what everyone has been trying to say all along. lol I did say she is rarely on main stream news site and being popular means being on main stream news site like newsen a lot. But if people think its my personal opinion then whatever. One thing i realise in this sitatuion is that, the supporters will always support, the haters will always hate. Discussions like this will go nowhere unless MMA steps up and talk or Jessica shows the evidences. She disclosed emails about the practice ban and about the transition fee
Nobody denied that a practice ban existed. Officially, it likely existed for less than one month. Unofficially, it may have existed for a bit longer. Yet, all evidence suggests it did not exist for the 10 months that she claims. And in the end, it is not the other teams' responsibility to train SlayerS players. It is the SlayerS team responsibility. So blaming that ban, even partially, on the downfall of SlayerS is wrong. Frankly, I'm actually impressed by how much cooperation there is between teams for practice. I would think they'd all be practicing internally only to hide their strategies, but I guess esports is too young to be that cutthroat yet. Blackballing one team who hasn't been willing to work with your federation doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.
As for the transfer fee, she disclosed a single email where she did not ask for a transfer fee. That email was from after many things had blown up publicly and she was likely trying to get rid of the "cancer" at that point in any way she could. Before that point, do you think EG didn't try to get MMA when they had people in the SlayerS house who knew he was privately upset with his "slave contract"? You do know that Slasher talks with the EG management pretty regularly right? Now Slasher has some secret sources that say there was an exorbitant transfer fee. Everything adds up quite nicely. EG knew MMA was disgruntled with his contract, they proposed picking him up, and Jessica gave them a ridiculous demand instead. It's quite possible that she did that with other teams like Fnatic during that same time period where the esports insiders knew that MMA was unhappy, but it hadn't blown up publicly yet. In the end, I kind of wonder if she went to Liquid with the offer of a free transfer in order to spite the other teams.
Based on the way she's gone about everything, it seems very much within her personality.
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On October 19 2012 03:33 renaissanceMAN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:31 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 03:29 SupBrother wrote:
sigh. this shitstorm makes me really really sad.
Jessica or no other part for that matter seems to be handling it really well. What stunned me the most (I haven't been following SlayerS too actively, so I can't know if it has happened before) is her extremely passive-aggresive attitude. Personally, the only person who I am fucking sad about is Cella. That dude is having it rough man..second time his team disband.. And giving a team your all only to see it fall. He's my 2nd favorite coach too (behind IM's kang), truly feel bad for him.
Saw his going to drink tweet? That shit broke my cold zerg heart.
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On October 19 2012 03:31 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:29 SupBrother wrote:
sigh. this shitstorm makes me really really sad.
Jessica or no other part for that matter seems to be handling it really well. What stunned me the most (I haven't been following SlayerS too actively, so I can't know if it has happened before) is her extremely passive-aggresive attitude. Personally, the only person who I am fucking sad about is Cella. That dude is having it rough man..second time his team disband.. And giving a team your all only to see it fall.
I'm with you on this one! Cella is such a boss!
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I would like to see Cella work with a foreign team, maybe as a coach or a manager. I admit that I know little of Cella, but it seems to me from what I do know it seems like he's a really honest, hardworking guy that does his best to help other people. He's dedicated, smart, and easy-going, and sounds like he'd be a real asset to any team.
On the Jessica topic, I know too little about her and the situation to make any real qualified opinion. All I do know is the limited contact I had with her when I worked briefly for the NASL. She and Boxer made a huge impression on me for their obvious quality and how much they cared about fans and the game. That doesn't necessarily have any bearing on their managerial capacity, but I will vouch, on my limited knowledge, that they are wonderful people. I personally believe that the most likely scenario is that fault goes all the way around, rather than it just being Jessica's fault for whatever reason.
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9071 Posts
On October 19 2012 03:33 soullogik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:
First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
qft
Boxer seems to be austrian if you know what I mean. I think the model you have pictured as Boxers idea of sc2 is grown to fail, especially in Korea, where the scene didn't have the financial support BW had. Korean teams need regulation cause of the way their business model works and the volatility of the korean scene atm. With lack of sponsorship and main stream interest the future of pro sc2 in Korea and the teams involved from the start is uncertain, thats why you need some sort of guidelines and burocracy to protect what they are hanging on to - otherwise the scene was going to become survival of the fittest, and many of the smaller teams would not have any protection from their best players being stolen or running away. Of course thats not a problem Boxer and his team would face cause he can support the team financially, find sponsors cause of his status and stay afloat. It's easy to believe in moral and ethics when you have enough money not to worry about anything else.
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On October 19 2012 03:14 kanchome wrote:
First time poster here, though a long term lurker. I'll try articulate my thoughts on this matter as briefly as possible.
Do people really think kim gayeon made all the decisions regarding slayers by herself? Most probably everything that occurred behind the scenes was decided jointly by Boxer and kim gayeon. The fact is Kim gayeon has been taking all the bad flack on purpose to deflect any potential tarnishing of Boxer.
When Slayers was under direct management of Boxer he clearly could have joined ESF anytime, and chose not to. Kim gayeon was simply following his dreams of an E-sport business where there was no monopoly over the lives of players like KESPA held in broodwar.
Boxer clearly had the prestige to have become the figurehead and the most powerful powerbroker behind ESF and chose not to, because he wasn't interested in politics or power , but because he has always been for ESPORTS. His refusal to join ESF reverberates his philosophy about the eSports scene. It's always been about the game and the passion driving players to play the game and the fans, the monetary benefits was a distant second. This is why Boxer is held in more esteem than ANY other Esports figure in history, beyond the fact he was a legend in broodwar. (tidbit for those who knew little about his broodwar career)
Starcraft2 potentially could have been a game driven by the fans and players, without some bureaucratic administration playing puppet master behind the scenes. Boxer clearly had that in mind, a scene where players made the game not politics which we see too much in the real world. Perhaps he was naive, afterall he in his own words said he doesn't know anything else beyond starcraft.
This obviously didn't turn out like he expected, he didn't want to get involved in all the gossiping and petty feuds that went behind the game, he simply wanted to play the game and help create an environment that would best allow that to be fostered.
Sure Kim gayeon most likely made mistakes, but Boxer was fully aware of the whole situation and started to lose passion towards the game when he realized it was impossible to seperate Gaming from politics.
ESF was formed with the 'idea' that it wouldn't be an organization run by bureaucrats like Kespa except regardless of what side you take, it's obvious they were Kespa 2.0 in the same way Bnet 2.0 occurred.
Kim gayeon isn't acting on her interest, rather she is metting retribution towards everyone that ruined Boxers dream concerning starcraft 2. An e-sport scene without all the dirty politics. Whether it's ESF or former Slayers players who ruined this dream they will all face huge backlash. No matter what occurs from now on, ESF and the ex slayers players who helped ruined the dream are tarnished.
There is no need to protect the corrupt scene and spoilt brats anymore. Retribution has been made and ESF will never be the same after this.
You might dislike kim gayeons handling of the matter, or the fact she revealed the dirty laundry. But every fan out there who shared Boxers dream will never forgive ESF or the ex-slayers players that ruined it for us.
ESF and exslayers might have fans out in the west who take their side, but for the majority of the koreans who iconize Boxer as the main representation of the Esport scene (not only starcraft) have realized everything that is occurring right now has the full awareness and backing of Boxer who is remaining quiet simply to represent the ideal Pro-gamer. The progamer not involved in money or politics.
Goodbye ESF and hopefully every western team thinking of picking up certain tarnished ex slayers players will realize those players well and truly ruined their future careers by choosing to side against Boxer. Hopefully all the other slayer players who remained loyal during the whole fiasco will find opportunities in other teams.
Do you think Boxer is stupid? There was never esports without politics and Boxer may very well knew that. As soon as a single cent flows through a buisness (and oftentimes even before that) everyone is looking after himself first. And to save their own interests the early SC2 teams worked together to be a notable force in negotiations with tournament organisers, blizzard and later KESPA wo came into the scene. Slayers on the other hand seem to have thought, that they wouldn't benefit that much from an alliance with the other team, since they got the money and the big star of esports - they had no interest to share that to strengthen the other teams in the end.
If you really think that Slayers didn't participate in those politics, than you are very naive and don't understand at all what happened up to the point we have now. It was all politics. I even think, Slayers would be doing well right now, maybe being still the dominant force, eSF has nothing to do with the downfall itself.
The internal issues of Slayers are what destroyed the team:
- Lack of Sponsors through the misterious Mr. J.
- Departure of Coach Ryu
- Internal disputes within the team
These are the reasons for the team to collapse. If you truly believe a two and a half week training embargo causes the strongest SC2 of late 2011 to collapse, then you are just very dumb. Especially the point when the team spirit was totally destroyed is the big issue here. And eSF has nothing to do with it. To believe Jessica or Boxer, who - has over 10years of pro gaming experience and - should have enough life experience to handle this kind of situation, are the victims of the terrible korean SC2 scene, are just ignorant towards reality. Jessica wants revenge for her own mistakes. She mismanaged a lot of things in the past, but others have to pay for it now, it seems.
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On October 19 2012 03:35 RenSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 19 2012 03:08 farnham wrote:On October 19 2012 03:02 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 02:59 Kiett wrote:On October 19 2012 02:56 ImNightmare wrote:On October 19 2012 02:55 Gesarjack wrote:
Solid trolling effort by ImNightmare, gotta say. All my bridges are belong to you. To be honest, I wasn't trolling. lol. I just didn't get why people felt the need to debate with my opinion or passing remark. :/ Probably because you were pushing it as fact, and people tend to find such behavior obnoxious. That said, your opinion is irrelevant. A person's actual popularity within a nation has nothing to do with whether you personally think he or she is "big." Pretty sure that's what everyone has been trying to say all along. lol I did say she is rarely on main stream news site and being popular means being on main stream news site like newsen a lot. But if people think its my personal opinion then whatever. One thing i realise in this sitatuion is that, the supporters will always support, the haters will always hate. Discussions like this will go nowhere unless MMA steps up and talk or Jessica shows the evidences. She disclosed emails about the practice ban and about the transition fee Nobody denied that a practice ban existed. Officially, it likely existed for less than one month. Unofficially, it may have existed for a bit longer. Yet, all evidence suggests it did not exist for the 10 months that she claims. And in the end, it is not the other teams' responsibility to train SlayerS players. It is the SlayerS team responsibility. So blaming that ban, even partially, on the downfall of SlayerS is wrong. Frankly, I'm actually impressed by how much cooperation there is between teams for practice. I would think they'd all be practicing internally only to hide their strategies, but I guess esports is too young to be that cutthroat yet. Blackballing one team who hasn't been willing to work with your federation doesn't seem like a bad thing to me.
"all evidence"? Can you link said evidence, since I have not seen any. If you refer to Ace & Mr. Won's statement, that's not evidence.
Agree though that in the end it's SlayerS's problem if they cannot acquire practice partners.
On October 19 2012 03:35 RenSC2 wrote:
As for the transfer fee, she disclosed a single email where she did not ask for a transfer fee. That email was from after many things had blown up publicly and she was likely trying to get rid of the "cancer" at that point in any way she could. Before that point, do you think EG didn't try to get MMA when they had people in the SlayerS house who knew he was privately upset with his "slave contract"? You do know that Slasher talks with the EG management pretty regularly right? Now Slasher has some secret sources that say there was an exorbitant transfer fee. Everything adds up quite nicely. EG knew MMA was disgruntled with his contract, they proposed picking him up, and Jessica gave them a ridiculous demand instead. It's quite possible that she did that with other teams like Fnatic during that same time period where the esports insiders knew that MMA was unhappy, but it hadn't blown up publicly yet. In the end, I kind of wonder if she went to Liquid with the offer of a free transfer in order to spite the other teams.
MMA was under contract. It's normal to demand a transfer fee if you void a contract so the player can transfer to another team. Refer to your first paragraph about cutthroat behavior in sports. It's also normal that an important player has a really high transfer fee. Sometimes even higher than his worth (ridiculous demands).
The target team then has the choice to pay this rip-off price, or dont have the player. Jessica apparently thought him having on SlayerS is worth more than the money the other team was offering (if that was a good decision as manager is another topic). Also if a transfer doesnt take place the player should be professional and continue to fulfill his current contract.
So the whole stating of "She demanded money!!" is only there to slander Jessica and to proof that she is a moneygrabbing greedy b*tch and doesnt care about anything else. And to reject that attack she was able to produce the email where she offered him for free. (Though again I think she was completely in her right to demand a ridiculous transfer fee)
Also people need to keep in mind that SlayerS and EG had that teamhouse stuff together. Maybe something bad happened there? I dont know.
+ Show Spoiler [PURE SPECULATION: ] +Maybe EG tried to get MMA to join while their players resided in the SlayerS house, and then Jessica demanded such a high price ("We invite you to play with us, in our house, and you try to poach our players. Yeah, please pay").
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TNeLt.jpg)
