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Active: 11574 users

Slayers to disband - Page 135

Forum Index > SC2 General
4170 CommentsPost a Reply
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Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans.
Wuster
Profile Joined May 2011
1974 Posts
October 18 2012 19:09 GMT
#2681
Re: Practice boycott

For what it's worth, even Kespa teams pass players around to practice with each other. And Kespa teams tend to be much larger and typically have a stable of B-teamers ready to practice whatever the A-teamers want.

So it's not like Korean teams are totally isolated and self-sufficient when it comes to practice (at least when it comes to practicing against other top-level players; ladder and B-team doesn't really cut it when it comes to preping GSL/OSL Ro4).
blamekilly
Profile Joined April 2011
466 Posts
October 18 2012 19:14 GMT
#2682
On October 19 2012 00:51 TeeTS wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 00:30 lambac0re wrote:
On October 19 2012 00:24 TeeTS wrote:
On October 19 2012 00:21 Woizit wrote:
On October 19 2012 00:19 TeeTS wrote:
On October 19 2012 00:15 Fenrax wrote:
On October 19 2012 00:05 ragz_gt wrote:
On October 19 2012 00:00 Rexeus wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

"If we really wanted to ostracize SlayerS, we could have excluded them very thoroughly, but that's not the case at all. Instead, we did a lot together, and worked to treat them the same as other teams even though they were not part of the federation... ...there was a time where [players were] ordered not to practice [with SlayerS players], but it was only for a short period. There is no ban now. At the time, SlayerS kept acting selfishly, so the teams had no choice but to cooperate and penalize them."


This response is ridiculous. From Jessica point of view, SlayerS is never part of the esF and its not like Jessica did not try to cooperate with them (they pulled out of NASL season 2). So how are they acting selfishly? Anyone that doesn't follow instructions from the esF is selfish? Or are they trying to force everyone to follow their rules?

I guess they are just trying to make another kespa....


It's also true that ESF have the power to decide they want to practice with. It's the sort of things federation / association / whateveryouwantcallit designed to regulate. While it's a pretty dirty tactic, Slayers basically doesn't want be in the federation and whines about being treated differently. You can't have it both ways, asking for benefit / protection while not wanting any regulation / responsibilities.


That is just bullshit. Slayers never asked for any benefit or protection by ESF. Not getting boycotted and blackmailed is hardly a benefit. They just wanted to participate in a foreign tournament with their own money, that was the only problem here because ESF had a different opinion and - like Kespa - does not tolerate such things. To think I had hopes that ESF was any better than Kespa... I am an idiot.


You forget that there WAS an agreement! Even Jessica admitted it. Slayers broke that agreement without telling anyone about it. A lot of it comes down to bad communication. But I think Jessica/Slayers just weren't afraid of any consequences from the other teams...


You might also want to consider this.

"After several failed negotiations with NASL, the qualifiers of NASL Season 3 begun"

ESF never managed to successfully negotiate an alternative for Slayers.


Yeah, so everything should remain as it was, which in that case would be no participation. But Slayers had the oppinion that they would benefit more if they participated. But they never communicated that towards the other teams in a proper manner, they only looked at themselves. I my oppinion that behavior has to be called selfish.

I don't follow this logic at all. Slayers wanted to participate, esf did not. Where does it say that slayers can't participate if no agreement is reached? IF an agreement had been reached to not participate and slayers had broken that agreement, you would have a case. In this case where no agreement was reached, nobody has any right to enforce slayers whether they participate or not let alone punish them with sanctions.


Jessica:
"When NASL Season 2 began, there was another movement for a boycott, and SlayerS was asked to join. We decided to join the boycott, thinking that we could get a good result regarding the NASL deposit policy which we thought was unfair." (From Jessicas initial statement (mod approved version), paragraph NASL Deposits)

Coach Won:
"To protect the rights and interest of our players, we gathered all the head coaches for a meeting, and decided not to take part in NASL, which required all the players to submit a 500 USD deposit. To be more detailed, if NASL did not remove this requirement of a deposit, and treat players better, we will not take part. This decision was approved by all the teams, including Slayers, and after that, we've been working hard to work and negotiate with NASL."
(From the Coach Won Interview on page 122 of this thread)

There WAS an agreement and it was broken without any further communications between the teams by Slayers and TSL

"After several failed negotiations with NASL, the qualifiers of NASL Season 3 begun. Most of the teams were still expressing that they'd wait for the other party to guarantee the rights of the players before they would take part. But in spite of this effort from many of the teams, Slayers and TSL suddenly decided to take part in the tournament without discussing it with us. Afterwards, I got to know about it, and I expressed my disappointment at the actions of the two teams." (From the Coach Won Interview on page 122 of this thread)

"When NASL Season 3 started, we were put in a dilemma again. We boycotted season two, but didn't gain anything, so I told our players to participate, and paid the deposits." (From Jessicas initial statement (mod approved version), paragraph NASL Deposits)

You don't even need to rely only on the statement of Coach Won. Just take all parallels and you see that eSF Teams were right to punish Slayers but just didn't find the proper way. But this punishment (the embargo) was canceled very fast. (See Coach Won Interview and Ace's clarifications).
I don't see any reason why Jessica should be right in that regard.





SlayerS didn't have any issue with NASL1 at all because everything was paid for by their sponsors. It only became an issue when ESF(or their collective body) approached them. They pressured SlayerS to join the boycott, just like they tried to pressure SlayerS in joining their federation. SlayerS gave in this time because they wanted to establish a good relation and to be able to discuss things with the federation. ESF was given time to negotiate, pre-NASL2 to pre-NASL3. ESF didn't make any progress or even respond to Jessica's inquiry. SlayerS, TSL, and also MVP(who many people seem to omit) went ahead and participated. I don't see anything wrong with that. You can't let thing go unresolved forever, there are deadlines.
Makenshi
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden2105 Posts
October 18 2012 19:17 GMT
#2683
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p
mokumoku
Profile Joined January 2012
157 Posts
October 18 2012 19:23 GMT
#2684
Ofcourse Jessica had the right to demand a high transfer fee when MMA was already bound by contract. The transfer fee for C.Ronaldo from Real Madrid is 1 billion euro. Can't be more ridiculous than that.
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
October 18 2012 19:25 GMT
#2685
On October 19 2012 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p


That's some pretty terrible reporting right there :p
Makenshi
Profile Joined February 2010
Sweden2105 Posts
October 18 2012 19:27 GMT
#2686
On October 19 2012 04:25 Salazarz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p


That's some pretty terrible reporting right there :p


maybe, but point is how awesome is it that starcraft/esports being on the frontpage of a nations largest newspaper/site? <apart from korea i guess > Was just abit shocked seeing it there!
TAMinator
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia2706 Posts
October 18 2012 19:32 GMT
#2687
On October 19 2012 04:27 Makenshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 04:25 Salazarz wrote:
On October 19 2012 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p


That's some pretty terrible reporting right there :p


maybe, but point is how awesome is it that starcraft/esports being on the frontpage of a nations largest newspaper/site? <apart from korea i guess > Was just abit shocked seeing it there!

Is that a good thing or bad thing? I guess free publicity for esports :D
blamekilly
Profile Joined April 2011
466 Posts
October 18 2012 19:33 GMT
#2688
On October 19 2012 01:53 renaissanceMAN wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 01:51 farnham wrote:
On October 19 2012 01:41 Ansinjunger wrote:
On October 19 2012 01:34 farnham wrote:
So jessica actively tried to find places for mma.. She asked liquid, fnatic and dignitas too. People raelly need to stop the mma, alicia, esf are great guys and jessica is a crazy woman theory...


Where are you getting this? News broke out that MMA wanted a new team, and she asked prices that were too high, as if to say, "fat chance." Then for whatever reason, she lowered it to nothing for TL. That doesn't add up. Why not nothing for the other teams.

And I thought I debunked the Alicia being a liar thing, if you actually look at the twitter dates and Alicia's actual words, but let's go with hearsay instead.




http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=48819

You commented on a few tweets not on the whole thing


If you're going to post a korean twitter link, at least translate it for us.

Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 01:53 farnham wrote:
Has it been confirmed that it was only two weeks? I've read conflicting reports on the actual time that elapsed.

According to jessica it was 10 month


I've read that, and Won's rebuttal that it was only a matter of weeks, does anyone know how long it actually was?[/QUOTE]


Jessica says she was informed by her own players, speceficly mentioning Ryung, ST player, ex-oGs(MC?) Player, and prob even Genius that the ban was still in place unofficial. So 1 month official, lied it was lifted and carried it on for 9 months until now.
Salazarz
Profile Blog Joined April 2012
Korea (South)2591 Posts
October 18 2012 19:33 GMT
#2689
On October 19 2012 04:27 Makenshi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 04:25 Salazarz wrote:
On October 19 2012 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p


That's some pretty terrible reporting right there :p


maybe, but point is how awesome is it that starcraft/esports being on the frontpage of a nations largest newspaper/site? <apart from korea i guess > Was just abit shocked seeing it there!

I don't know, from reading that article it doesn't really sound like good advertisement to me tbh
chiwawa
Profile Joined April 2011
330 Posts
October 18 2012 20:24 GMT
#2690
On October 19 2012 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p


http://i.imgur.com/8N0Vs.png can add this picture of how high up the article was linked on the front page.
시카
saroir
Profile Joined December 2011
Germany244 Posts
October 18 2012 20:34 GMT
#2691
reading what happend just makes me sick ...

i feel bad for the guys on slayers who had nothing to do with all the trouble and suffered because of stupid people
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
October 18 2012 20:53 GMT
#2692
On October 19 2012 05:34 saroir wrote:
reading what happend just makes me sick ...

i feel bad for the guys on slayers who had nothing to do with all the trouble and suffered because of stupid people


then you obviously haven't been reading enough.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Veldril
Profile Joined August 2010
Thailand1817 Posts
October 18 2012 20:55 GMT
#2693
On October 19 2012 05:53 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 05:34 saroir wrote:
reading what happend just makes me sick ...

i feel bad for the guys on slayers who had nothing to do with all the trouble and suffered because of stupid people


then you obviously haven't been reading enough.


Well, there are B-teamers who recently start to shine and perform well that don't involve in this debacle by any means. So yeah, feeling bad for them is understandable.
Without love, we can't see anything. Without love, the truth can't be seen. - Umineko no Naku Koro Ni
eviltomahawk
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States11133 Posts
October 18 2012 20:58 GMT
#2694
On October 19 2012 05:24 chiwawa wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p


http://i.imgur.com/8N0Vs.png can add this picture of how high up the article was linked on the front page.

I like how the Starcraft article is right under the article and picture of Kim Jong-Un.

Of course, SlayerS_BoxeR is waaaaaay more handsome.
ㅇㅅㅌㅅ
Jaedong4thOSL
Profile Joined August 2011
United States487 Posts
October 18 2012 21:01 GMT
#2695
On October 19 2012 05:58 eviltomahawk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 05:24 chiwawa wrote:
On October 19 2012 04:17 Makenshi wrote:
Wow just noticed this actually got reported on the frontpage of the largest newspaper/site in Sweden :o awesome

link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/nojesbladet/spela/article15633359.ab :p


http://i.imgur.com/8N0Vs.png can add this picture of how high up the article was linked on the front page.

I like how the Starcraft article is right under the article and picture of Kim Jong-Un.

Of course, SlayerS_BoxeR is waaaaaay more handsome.


Kim Jong-Un looks even more stupid than his father, his wife not so bad though.
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-18 21:16:46
October 18 2012 21:16 GMT
#2696
I wish we had more responses from people (Boxer, MMA, ESF etc.)
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
hooahah
Profile Joined October 2011
3752 Posts
October 18 2012 21:52 GMT
#2697
anyone knows what's up with Genius?
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1047 Posts
October 18 2012 21:53 GMT
#2698
$90,000 for MMA was the original transfer fee. - Slasher from sources (watch SotG)

Only later did she offer MMA to Liquid for free.

So, she calls someone on his "lies", pushes a leaked email from a totally different situation to back up her case, and then we find out she was actually asking $90k for MMA. So the original guy (from ST, I believe) wasn't lying, she was in this case. What a shock. LOL.

It all looks good for you when you manipulate the facts. Not so good when others start chiming in.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
October 18 2012 21:53 GMT
#2699
On October 19 2012 05:55 Veldril wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 19 2012 05:53 Xiphos wrote:
On October 19 2012 05:34 saroir wrote:
reading what happend just makes me sick ...

i feel bad for the guys on slayers who had nothing to do with all the trouble and suffered because of stupid people


then you obviously haven't been reading enough.


Well, there are B-teamers who recently start to shine and perform well that don't involve in this debacle by any means. So yeah, feeling bad for them is understandable.


They can keep laddering from now on and not getting complacent.

I don't feel bad for MMA, Crank, or, especially, Alicia at all.
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
Dr.Sin
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada1126 Posts
October 18 2012 21:57 GMT
#2700
THANK YOU APOLLO!
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