|
Bashing of any sort will result in temp bans. |
I guess no SlayerSGoOdy.. 
|
United States23455 Posts
|
On October 18 2012 18:31 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 18:23 lambac0re wrote:On October 18 2012 18:18 Inori wrote:On October 18 2012 18:15 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 18:12 Inori wrote:Wasn't going to bother replying to you, since you obviously won't change your opinion (and by the way, yes you do come off as biased), but can't let this little gem slide: Because of her history of being so open, it most certainly shows us that she isn't afraid to say something to get the truth out there. Whether that causes 'drama' or not is of little concern to her it seems. Rightly so.It doesn't matter. How old are you? Are you seriously this naive? Do you seriously think shitstorms like this don't affect esports as a whole? Do you seriously think potential sponsors will look at this crap and think "hey, I think this childish drama is invest-worthy"? When you stumble upon a completely random drama on a pretty much irrelevant topic to you, do you: a.) actually care about who's right or wrong and spend hours reading through to get to the bottom of it b.) think everyone involved is retarded for creating yet another internet drama Guess which answer is correct for pretty much any potential sponsor. Right, she should stay silent so that people can continue operating under the impression that ESF and korean SC2 teams only have the best for players and Starcraft in mind. That'll allow everyone to make informed decisions. I feel sorry for you if you think only way to solve problems is to create a shit-storm, most likely deterring sponsors and players from a game that is already suffering decline. Would you rather have the Savior incident kept under warps too for the sake of avoiding a shitstorm and deterring sponsors? But yes, I do think Saviour incident should've been handled differently, internally. It did hurt esports more than it could've.
That's simply unreasonable.
So any controversy should always be kept quiet in order to not harm industry as a whole? You would make a great government official. You cannot just hide things of this magnitude from people, that is even more of a deterrent to sponsors than the truth coming out.
|
On October 18 2012 16:04 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 15:56 bucckevin wrote:On October 18 2012 15:50 Dosey wrote:On October 18 2012 15:45 Sikly wrote:On October 18 2012 15:38 Dosey wrote:On October 18 2012 15:16 dyDrawer wrote:On October 18 2012 15:03 openbox1 wrote:On October 18 2012 14:52 Fionn wrote:
I really am interested in MMA's side of things. I'm sure if he said his part, the foreign community would more than likely be on the majority of his side. In Korea, with how big Boxer is and how they seem to be looking at Crank (who the foreign community loves), he could be roasted. Was the biggest fan of MMA, but come on, Jessica stealing from sponsership money??? I think the biggest thing that helps Jessica in this case is that she's had a history of letting players go if they approach her correctly. Taeja had no problems leaving even though he was an ascending star at that time. He was honest and it worked. Same with a few others. The other guys who created drama (albeit Jessica probably added to blowing it up) lied to her. They essentially escaped from their contracts claiming they wanted to leave SC2 and then joined a foreign team soon after or just didn't honor the clauses in their contracts. Especially since she has provided proof, those players talking shit about her lose all credibility. But yeah, I don't think Jessica should manage a team, but this vitriol from the foreign community based on "oh there she goes again," is just a bit disgusting. Wouldn't you be pissed if players whom you invested time and effort backstabbed you again and again? The environment where Slayers was essentially a pariah due to the ESF being all dickish probably spurred a bunch of jittery progamers who tried to look out for number one. I think the claim that Jessica stole sponsorship money is just absurd. Isn't Jessica already a celebrity in Korea? It's not like her entire livelihood depends on e-sports. The biggest reason she's in this business is her passion IMO. Why would she sabotage her team like that when 1) she doesn't desperately need the money and 2) she's in this business mostly not for money but for passion? I think MMA was just too gullible and believed this "J" character. Jessica found out about it, and in pure Jessica fashion, she lashes out instead of trying to diffuse the situation properly. This kind of behavior would put anyone on the defensive and definitely put MMA on the defensive and he lashed back. You don't attack a young adult who already has a bad image of you, you sit down with them and have a conversation (and not condescendingly either) until everything is solved, or at least aired out. MMA is at fault for his role in this as the gullible dummy, but Jessica is at fault just as much (if not more) for being a very poor manager that turns every situation into a TV Drama. You started out good, for about one sentence. How the fuck do you know what Jessica did? "pure Jessica fashion" means jack shit. We know very little about his she manages her team on a daily basis. Seriously, you make yourself look like an ass when you assume things like that. You are blindly assuming she attacked a young adult(literally your words). You are speaking in facts about a situation where you have no idea what details actually happened. We know Manager J ruined some sponsorship deals, and convinced several players that it was Jessica's fault, and that he was going to start a team with sponsors. They believed him. This caused ill feelings among the team. Jessica may have turned it into a TV drama and yelled at MMA. She may have been a responsible adult and tried to explain it. I don't know, neither do you. It is hard enough to sort through translated drama like this, without people making blind statements that have no facts behind them. Since when did "I think" translate into "This statement is pure fact and you should take it how it is!"? The way she acts on twitter, how she lashed out against very many of her own players and then suddenly kept quiet about the punishment like it was some huge dea. Her own words in the statement showed how aggressive she was towards anyone who "disrespected" her or the team. Those instances lead me to draw my own conclusion and form an opinion. This is a forum, a place for opinions and discussion, after all. If you want facts, just read the articles and then move along without reading the comments. Don't come in here and call me an ass because you disagree with my opinion, it makes you look like the ass yourself. I think you just don't like Jessica for being protective of her players... that's what she did on twitter. You accuse her of being a drama queen and then later criticize her for trying to keep things in house for as long as she could. Making a huge deal about something publicly and then suddenly shutting down all communication about the situation does not protect anything, it usually tends to make things worse. Do you not remember the 100+ page thread about MMA getting benched with all kinds of wild speculation? That did more harm than good, especially for MMA's image. They could have easily just said "MMA got into a verbal altercation with staff about the going-ons of the SlayerS team and was punished by being sent to the B-Team indefinitely." That says exactly what happened without revealing any in-depth information about all the drama that was happening.
Yeah.
I wonder how much the Korean cultural difference matters, but I feel like much of this drama had to have been caused by poor communication skills. I remember reading about how in some Asian cultures such as Korea's, people must act very respectful towards authority figures, but also expect more out of them. In the US, if you got a problem or any kind of critique, you bloody well voice it, and hopefully it's not taken too personally. If you bottle it up though, then there's the chance that it will blow up later, and then it will be taken too personally. And this sort of openness or closedness might also extend to public relations - as you said, the MMA incident could have been more descriptive without being damning.
Or maybe I'm wrong, I don't know.
I don't know that Jessica is a "drama queen," but I will now, as many others will, suspect that her managing skills (or maybe even people skills) are weak. Which is sad, because she seems to care very much about what she does.
Or maybe I'm completely wrong, I don't know.
Regardless...
Goodbye Slayers, and sorry about the mess Boxer
|
On October 18 2012 18:23 lambac0re wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 18:18 Inori wrote:On October 18 2012 18:15 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 18:12 Inori wrote:Wasn't going to bother replying to you, since you obviously won't change your opinion (and by the way, yes you do come off as biased), but can't let this little gem slide: Because of her history of being so open, it most certainly shows us that she isn't afraid to say something to get the truth out there. Whether that causes 'drama' or not is of little concern to her it seems. Rightly so.It doesn't matter. How old are you? Are you seriously this naive? Do you seriously think shitstorms like this don't affect esports as a whole? Do you seriously think potential sponsors will look at this crap and think "hey, I think this childish drama is invest-worthy"? When you stumble upon a completely random drama on a pretty much irrelevant topic to you, do you: a.) actually care about who's right or wrong and spend hours reading through to get to the bottom of it b.) think everyone involved is retarded for creating yet another internet drama Guess which answer is correct for pretty much any potential sponsor. Right, she should stay silent so that people can continue operating under the impression that ESF and korean SC2 teams only have the best for players and Starcraft in mind. That'll allow everyone to make informed decisions. I feel sorry for you if you think only way to solve problems is to create a shit-storm, most likely deterring sponsors and players from a game that is already suffering decline. So what are you saying exactly? She should have kept the ESF bullying secret? All she did was tell her side of the story which as been verified by ESF players. Also following your train of logic...anything is better than starting a "shitstorm" so... Would you rather have had the Savior incident kept under warps too for the sake of avoiding a "shitstorm" and deterring sponsors?
If you read Ace's Comments, you knew that her side of the story was not really verified by ESF players. The only thing that was verified is, that there was a practice ban. Jessica claims it was for about 10months, Ace said it was taken back in less than 1 months. Also the reasons seem much more complicated than Jessica makes them look to be. It was probably not the right way to solve any issues between esF and Slayers. But it's a totally different story if they realised quick that they were wrong in doing so. (which is what Ace said) With every statement that comes in, we come a little bit closer to the truth. If Jessicas statement were true, than the whole Korean SC2 scene would be evil and mean but her and Boxer. I truly don't believe that is the case.
|
|
|
On October 18 2012 18:33 Flonomenalz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 18:31 Inori wrote:On October 18 2012 18:23 lambac0re wrote:On October 18 2012 18:18 Inori wrote:On October 18 2012 18:15 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 18:12 Inori wrote:Wasn't going to bother replying to you, since you obviously won't change your opinion (and by the way, yes you do come off as biased), but can't let this little gem slide: Because of her history of being so open, it most certainly shows us that she isn't afraid to say something to get the truth out there. Whether that causes 'drama' or not is of little concern to her it seems. Rightly so.It doesn't matter. How old are you? Are you seriously this naive? Do you seriously think shitstorms like this don't affect esports as a whole? Do you seriously think potential sponsors will look at this crap and think "hey, I think this childish drama is invest-worthy"? When you stumble upon a completely random drama on a pretty much irrelevant topic to you, do you: a.) actually care about who's right or wrong and spend hours reading through to get to the bottom of it b.) think everyone involved is retarded for creating yet another internet drama Guess which answer is correct for pretty much any potential sponsor. Right, she should stay silent so that people can continue operating under the impression that ESF and korean SC2 teams only have the best for players and Starcraft in mind. That'll allow everyone to make informed decisions. I feel sorry for you if you think only way to solve problems is to create a shit-storm, most likely deterring sponsors and players from a game that is already suffering decline. Would you rather have the Savior incident kept under warps too for the sake of avoiding a shitstorm and deterring sponsors? But yes, I do think Saviour incident should've been handled differently, internally. It did hurt esports more than it could've. That's simply unreasonable. So any controversy should always be kept quiet in order to not harm industry as a whole? You would make a great government official. You cannot just hide things of this magnitude from people, that is even more of a deterrent to sponsors than the truth coming out.
Damn, beat me to the punch. Oh well, I was getting tired of typing anyway.
Also according to his logic, Armstrong shouldn't have been publicly outed either, Barry Bonds should have been hushed and covered up, cause you know, sponsors are all important!
If you honestly think that hushing and covering up scandal is the way to grow esports...whatever I'm done.
|
Nazgul is Mr.J
!! Liquid Advantage !!
|
Not entirely a surprise, still a bit sad though. I love MMA
|
On October 18 2012 18:37 Inori wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 18:31 Flonomenalz wrote:On October 18 2012 18:18 Inori wrote:On October 18 2012 18:15 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 18:12 Inori wrote:Wasn't going to bother replying to you, since you obviously won't change your opinion (and by the way, yes you do come off as biased), but can't let this little gem slide: Because of her history of being so open, it most certainly shows us that she isn't afraid to say something to get the truth out there. Whether that causes 'drama' or not is of little concern to her it seems. Rightly so.It doesn't matter. How old are you? Are you seriously this naive? Do you seriously think shitstorms like this don't affect esports as a whole? Do you seriously think potential sponsors will look at this crap and think "hey, I think this childish drama is invest-worthy"? When you stumble upon a completely random drama on a pretty much irrelevant topic to you, do you: a.) actually care about who's right or wrong and spend hours reading through to get to the bottom of it b.) think everyone involved is retarded for creating yet another internet drama Guess which answer is correct for pretty much any potential sponsor. Right, she should stay silent so that people can continue operating under the impression that ESF and korean SC2 teams only have the best for players and Starcraft in mind. That'll allow everyone to make informed decisions. I feel sorry for you if you think only way to solve problems is to create a shit-storm, most likely deterring sponsors and players from a game that is already suffering decline. Oh boy, because there haven't been any shit storms in any other games or sports. I wonder how baseball still has sponsors with the steroid shit storms. Or how the NFL still has sponsors after the lock out and replacement refs shit storms. Yep, this is definitely hurting e-sports. *sigh* Sorry! For a moment there I forgot e-sports is a multi billion dollar business, that has been around for centuries. Silly me for thinking it's actually very fragile, unstable and has already suffered a massive decline in sponsorships before.
I'm not even going to bother with you. We can go back and forth all day.
|
On October 18 2012 18:34 TeeTS wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 18:23 lambac0re wrote:On October 18 2012 18:18 Inori wrote:On October 18 2012 18:15 zefreak wrote:On October 18 2012 18:12 Inori wrote:Wasn't going to bother replying to you, since you obviously won't change your opinion (and by the way, yes you do come off as biased), but can't let this little gem slide: Because of her history of being so open, it most certainly shows us that she isn't afraid to say something to get the truth out there. Whether that causes 'drama' or not is of little concern to her it seems. Rightly so.It doesn't matter. How old are you? Are you seriously this naive? Do you seriously think shitstorms like this don't affect esports as a whole? Do you seriously think potential sponsors will look at this crap and think "hey, I think this childish drama is invest-worthy"? When you stumble upon a completely random drama on a pretty much irrelevant topic to you, do you: a.) actually care about who's right or wrong and spend hours reading through to get to the bottom of it b.) think everyone involved is retarded for creating yet another internet drama Guess which answer is correct for pretty much any potential sponsor. Right, she should stay silent so that people can continue operating under the impression that ESF and korean SC2 teams only have the best for players and Starcraft in mind. That'll allow everyone to make informed decisions. I feel sorry for you if you think only way to solve problems is to create a shit-storm, most likely deterring sponsors and players from a game that is already suffering decline. So what are you saying exactly? She should have kept the ESF bullying secret? All she did was tell her side of the story which as been verified by ESF players. Also following your train of logic...anything is better than starting a "shitstorm" so... Would you rather have had the Savior incident kept under warps too for the sake of avoiding a "shitstorm" and deterring sponsors? If you read Ace's Comments, you knew that her side of the story was not really verified by ESF players. The only thing that was verified is, that there was a practice ban. Jessica claims it was for about 10months, Ace said it was taken back in less than 1 months. Also the reasons seem much more complicated than Jessica makes them look to be. It was probably not the right way to solve any issues between esF and Slayers. But it's a totally different story if they realised quick that they were wrong in doing so. (which is what Ace said) With every statement that comes in, we come a little bit closer to the truth. If Jessicas statement were true, than the whole Korean SC2 scene would be evil and mean but her and Boxer. I truly don't believe that is the case.
Jessica seems to only have one witness from a Startale team for all her sources (and her chat logs from the internet)
While eSF will probably have all the other coaches to testify for what happened. It seems unlikely to believe one person over multiple others, but hey, this stuff happens all the time in the real world.
Not to mention, GOMTV has said they would back up eSF no matter what so maybe they will say something about this in near future.
|
|
|
On October 18 2012 18:03 SinCitta wrote:
People seem comfortable to judge the situation with the portrayal of single heavily involved person. Just because some points are true doesn't mean everything is or the whole narrative is like it is presented.
There is always more than one side of the story. Why did half of the players turn against her? Her story gives very simplistic reasons at most. Especially the "all players were just given too much early on and became spoiled brats and have bad characters". Real people don't act like that. Why was it so easy for the manager J to convince the players she was embezzling money? He must have been speaking to open ears. Money is where things get real. Why was, according to her, everyone conspiring against her while she did seemingly nothing wrong? Seriously, this is the tone throughout her whole story. How would you judge a person in real life doing the same? You are very, very sceptical.
I don't know if some businesses are run like that in Korea, but it sounds like she ran SlayerS with the "infallible mother model" (she was playing with that image a lot, also). It sounds she treated adults and adolescents like kids, incapable to think for themselves and constantly feels betrayed whenever they don't do what she wants. In sports, when there are problems between the coach/manager and the players the players have a go-to-guy like the president who can then mediate. Problem in SlayerS is that the "president" is engaged with the manager! It works when everyone is happy but it explodes in situations like this. In the end, regardless if you believe or don't believe in "unfortunate chains of events", "conspiracies" and "players without character", she failed as a manager (who needs to keep shit together and working regardless of egos and external influences).
Even though I really sound against her in this post, I don't really have picked a side. It is just what I would be thinking if anyone told me a story like she does.
???I don't really have picked a side???
Writing two long paragraphs of thinly veiled insinuations, and then say "I'm keeping an open mind." Ummm ok. Its fine to lean towards one point of view. Its the internet and this is a gaming forum, but please don't try to pretend to be impartial...
|
So... who's going to go watch the SlayerS' last game as a team on Nov 3?
|
|
|
On October 18 2012 17:34 zefreak wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 17:27 iLithiuM wrote:This just makes me sad Really want to see sc2 up there with D2 and LoL, but even my interest in the game is slowly dying away. Why? Because of this drama? Its quite unrelated to the game. Just root for Mvp and you will be rejuvinated
I would still love to see MVP win and i still am rooting for him. The game just doesn't bring as much excitement from my perspective. As a Terran player i just feel the state of the game is not where it should be but this isn't the thread for it
GOGO EGMMARC
|
Personally, I think she went a little overboard with shaming her players. I would never defame my own employee like this, since technically they are my responsibility to manage in the first place. Their failings are my own failings by extension.
I'm not saying she should hide it, but the manner in which she wrote it was just came across as being petty in nature.
|
Basically Coach Won claimed that Jessica once demanded ridiculous amount of transfer fee for MMA from foreign
teams, to which Jessica disputed backed up with evidence.
http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=48819
this article clarifies that Jessica approached Nazgul by email and offered MMA to Team Liquid without ANY
transfer fee involved. But Nazgul declined because he had already planned on which players to recruit according
to the article 0_0
|
Esports Drama of the Month no doubt!
GL to all parties
|
United States23455 Posts
On October 18 2012 19:00 mongmong wrote:Basically Coach Won claimed that Jessica once demanded ridiculous amount of transfer fee for MMA from foreign teams, to which Jessica disputed backed up with evidence. http://www.inven.co.kr/webzine/news/?news=48819this article clarifies that Jessica approached Nazgul by email and offered MMA to Team Liquid without ANY transfer fee involved. But Nazgul declined because he had already planned on which players to recruit according to the article 0_0
Wow, so close to Liquid`MMA.
I hope Jessica had Nazgul's approval to actually post that private e-mail out in the open.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
