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well i was in the beta for sc2 back in the day. there were obvious issues with the game that just felt wrong (such as mule mining a gold base) and i reported these thoughts to blizzard, because lo and behold that is the reason you have a beta. IT MOTHERFUCKING TOOK YEARS TO FIX THIS SHIT. THAT IS SO UNACCEPTABLE I CANT EVEN FATHOM IT.
now please, i didnt expect them to change their game because some scrubby diamond player told them it was fk'd but if i could tell these thing why couldnt they?
i played 1500-2000 games in the beta. i played another 1500-2000 games on live. and the saddest part of all that? THE BUILDS I DID AT THE BEGINNING OF THE BETA WERE STILL THE BEST BUILDS AFTER 4000 FUCKING GAMES AND 1.5 years of playing. UNACCEPTABLE.
add in the fact that hydras (THE FUCKING SIGNATURE UNIT OF YOUR FCKING GAME) were shit and i lost my will to play.
i play LoL now and that game is run, i mean words barely describe, how i feel about riot compared to blizzard in regards to their products. riot CONSTANTLY has awesome new shit to look forward to that MAKES THE GAME BETTER FOR THE PLAYERS. just in the past few months they have added spectator mode, 6-10 new champions, balance patches every 2 weeks (99% of their balance changes are right on the money imo), redone the graphics to a certain extent, remade the models and skills for an additional 6-10 champions, AND RUN THE MOST POPULAR ESPORTS EVENT EVER. not to mention in a few weeks season 3 will start which has a revamped jungle and an item overhaul.
im sorry about the caps and cussing but I wanted to love sc2. sc:bw is unquestionably the best game i have ever played.
but destiny is right. the only people that can fix sc2 work at blizzard and they refuse to. what it comes down to is LoL, sc2, Dota2 are the big games vying for (what i believe to be) essentially the same players. LoL and Dota2 learn from and copy each other in many ways. sc2 is lagging so far behind its comical at this point.
edit: i have to emphasize the season3 changes. just like from season 1 to 2 riot is changing some fundamental things about how the game is played, subtle maybe, but critically important none the less. this keeps the game fresh and engaging.
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On October 18 2012 08:30 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Speaking of BW, you have to take into account that BW 'became' esports game through sheer luck. It's balance is an accident which was never projected or really modified. Because of that, it is difficult to achieve smth like that in SC2, it is like winning a lottery 2 times in a row.
Perhaps culturally it's like winning the lottery. Definitely not when you speak of game design or b.net 1.0, which have immediately apparent, well-defined features.
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Good points like the post
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On October 18 2012 10:06 acrimoneyius wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 08:30 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Speaking of BW, you have to take into account that BW 'became' esports game through sheer luck. It's balance is an accident which was never projected or really modified. Because of that, it is difficult to achieve smth like that in SC2, it is like winning a lottery 2 times in a row. Perhaps culturally it's like winning the lottery. Definitely not when you speak of game design or b.net 1.0, which have immediately apparent, well-defined features.
Actually it seems like the game design was exactly that.
You got a whole bunch of OP stuff yet somehow (with mapmakers working around it) you get a balanced game.
I really doubt blizzard intended all those tricks people use when they designed the game.
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On October 18 2012 10:11 Ozkan wrote:
wheres the spotlight?
I agree, this should be spotlighted, seriously.
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Never thought I'd agree with Destiny on anything, but he's pretty spot on here. I've been playing since beta, but uninstalled SC2 last week.
Putting a casual gamer in a situation where they're going to lose 50% of their games, 100% of the loss is their fault, and each game can take up a fair portion of that players 'gaming time' is a recipe for disaster.
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Let out all the tears and grief now people so that tomorrow we can get back on the horse and make sc2 the best game ever.
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On October 18 2012 09:59 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 09:51 J1.au wrote:On October 18 2012 08:30 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Speaking of BW, you have to take into account that BW 'became' esports game through sheer luck. It's balance is an accident which was never projected or really modified. Because of that, it is difficult to achieve smth like that in SC2, it is like winning a lottery 2 times in a row. Which is why they should've only updated the graphics. I knew this would turn out badly when I saw the utterly stupid new units they were adding. They threw away Chess pieces and replaced them with ones from Checkers. Why would they update a game that didn't bring them any money? Don't forget they got the whole Blizzard vs Kespa nonsense. They had 2 choices 1. Make a BW facelift and update it and gain the same they did back then 2. Make SC2 and have the potential to a lot of more money.
Making a sequel was obviously the correct decision, though I would have preferred it if Blizzard had made Starcraft: Part II rather than Starcraft Reloaded.
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On October 18 2012 10:09 Assirra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 10:06 acrimoneyius wrote:On October 18 2012 08:30 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Speaking of BW, you have to take into account that BW 'became' esports game through sheer luck. It's balance is an accident which was never projected or really modified. Because of that, it is difficult to achieve smth like that in SC2, it is like winning a lottery 2 times in a row. Perhaps culturally it's like winning the lottery. Definitely not when you speak of game design or b.net 1.0, which have immediately apparent, well-defined features. Actually it seems like the game design was exactly that. You got a whole bunch of OP stuff yet somehow (with mapmakers working around it) you get a balanced game. I really doubt blizzard intended all those tricks people use when they designed the game.
Even w/o the bugs and glitches. StarCraft 1 was really well designed in terms of lore designs where EVERY single units was a signature in their perspective race. In SC2, all the races are so similar to each other. Terran got mobile units while Zergs have turtle functions in them and Protoss lost a bit of their ability to utilize cool units like DTs/Reavers/HTs and Zealots were a lot stronger.
All those specific traits gave their perspective race some identity. In which StarCraft 1's design team did greatly in. From the bat, the single players' storyline was even more captivating and was more sensible.
The difference is that the original team cared.
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On October 18 2012 10:33 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On October 18 2012 10:09 Assirra wrote:On October 18 2012 10:06 acrimoneyius wrote:On October 18 2012 08:30 NightOfTheDead wrote:
Speaking of BW, you have to take into account that BW 'became' esports game through sheer luck. It's balance is an accident which was never projected or really modified. Because of that, it is difficult to achieve smth like that in SC2, it is like winning a lottery 2 times in a row. Perhaps culturally it's like winning the lottery. Definitely not when you speak of game design or b.net 1.0, which have immediately apparent, well-defined features. Actually it seems like the game design was exactly that. You got a whole bunch of OP stuff yet somehow (with mapmakers working around it) you get a balanced game. I really doubt blizzard intended all those tricks people use when they designed the game. The difference is that the original team cared.
/thread
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Is Blizzard even listening? I hope we can get a response from them on these issues.
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On October 17 2012 13:59 ch33psh33p wrote:
The sad thing is, a lot of people are going to look at this and see two things
(1) Destiny wrote it
(2) He used mean words
And then proceed to dismiss it, flame his playing skills, and call into question his validity as a human being.
Of course, the actual argument presented will become completely lost, and thats a damn shame.
I for one noticed both of these things, and also agreed with all of the mean words he used. As a certain southpark episodes explains we can't overuse profanity for fear of the words losing their meaning. I believe that Destiny was justified in all of his profanities in the post above.
The community is more than willing to offer useful options and I honestly feel like blizzard thinks like this...
"Well these are some great ideas, but we are smarter, lets do something different and show them how smart we are"
By doing this they miss the basic fundamental problem, and in some cases create bigger problems in the meantime..:/
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I disagree that Blizzard needs to do something to change everything so dynamically. Brood War didn't get any Blizzard help and even if they did it was very abysmal. NO mention of Blizzard during OSL or anything. (I could be wrong)
What the community seriously needs is more exposure and bigger prize pools and if we can manage, big name sponsors. The reason BW was so big in Korea was because BIG BIG companies were sponsoring teams, like SKT, KT, CJ, Samsung. Well the game itself was really popular too  .
Another reason is SCII is so easy compared to BW so that is why SCII might not be as popular as BW. People don't think skill is needed to play SCII compared to BW.
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On October 18 2012 10:39 NMHU. wrote:Dan Stemkoski Dan StemkoskiCertifié @Artosis My opinions on some of the negativity going around. http://tmblr.co/ZKN0pwVVGwslBASED ARTOSIS.
Its just words with coherent writing until the guy busted with the claim that SC2 is the best game in the world crap that deviated so much from the previous words of many evidences.
Its too bad that he wasn't able to expand on that statement.
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wonder how many people at tl stopped playing this game because of no motivation/ladder anxiety and only watch major tourneys or progamers streaming from time to time. i certainly belong to those and as a terran player i highly doubt i will get that addon for two new units and a campaign i dont care about.
makes me sad, but i think lol/dota 2 won and since ego shooters are pretty much dead at top events we really need a revolution to bring esports back to the glory days, with bw, cs, q3, wc3, dota and maybe streetfighter all having big events and communites around them.
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On October 18 2012 10:42 Dontkillme wrote:I disagree that Blizzard needs to do something to change everything so dynamically. Brood War didn't get any Blizzard help and even if they did it was very abysmal. NO mention of Blizzard during OSL or anything. (I could be wrong) What the community seriously needs is more exposure and bigger prize pools and if we can manage, big name sponsors. The reason BW was so big in Korea was because BIG BIG companies were sponsoring teams, like SKT, KT, CJ, Samsung. Well the game itself was really popular too . Another reason is SCII is so easy compared to BW so that is why SCII might not be as popular as BW. People don't think skill is needed to play SCII compared to BW.
Problem is that Blizzard would let Kespa do w/e they wanted. Now tournament sponsors have to pay to broadcast the game, get Blizzard's permission to use the maps and most importantly killed any form of community senses with them not allowing mods of being played on stage professionally speaking.
Only way that we can make a change to that is by boycotting the company to force them of their egos and make ESPORT lose the brodcasting right and make as a tool for entertainment in the place of it being a product. SC2 wasn't built upon passions but by money, Blizzard didn't let their child mature but instead kept pushing those equipment to him.
"No daddy no! I DON'T EVEN LIKE FOOTBALL!"
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Starcraft 2 failed to deliver to the casuals, and as an esport it is awfully boring everytime a Protoss is playing, so it failed on both aspects. I doubt however that it is possible to make a BW like game popular to casuals in the west. LOL and Dota made it, but I do not consider them esports. Could Star2 succeed in the west if Blizzard had made a well designed game? Somehow I don't think it possible. Star2 had some success even if it was poorly designed. Am I happy? No, Star2 killed the BW scene. The casuals told me: "Go back to BW if you don't like the design". Well, I can't, since Blizzard even succeeded in killing the Korean Pro BW scene. Thanks Blizzard.
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TT1's massive posts are usually too eccentric for me, and in this situation the random "WTFBBQ" caps made it a little annoying of a read (even though I know he was doing it in a mocking manner, not legitimate, but still...), but I must say I agree with his (or rather Destiny's) points.
I think it's naiive to say that Blizzard isn't holding back growth to a large degree. However, I think we must also question the actual degree Blizzard would benefit by being less restricting. The potential for growth will be there, but they may have already missed their chance. And they can't really go back after they tell the community "here's all this shit!" so there's a ton of potential they'll cut their small profit margins they're making now without any gain.
The potential is there, but they're taking the conservative "we're ok with these mediocre results" route. Not surprising they don't want to take risks (or aren't approved to take them from Activision) when they're already looking to be sold.
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EPT
