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On October 17 2012 17:28 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:24 Tobberoth wrote:On October 17 2012 17:21 soullogik wrote:
sc2 was flawed from the beginning.
hots looks like its more of the same.
if LoL is the future of esports, welp time to give up.
just gonna have to wait another 5 years for some developers to step up.
tho it doesn't look too good as most developers prefer to just shit out casual games to keep the masses entertained for a few weeks/month's.
This is why we need to put our faith in Dota 2. Amazing game? Check. Far from casual? Check. Good company supporting it? Check.Potential to get a lot of viewers? Check. When was Valve ever considered a GOOD esports community? They've totally neglected CS 1.6 scene. TF2 is casual as hell (random crits  ). Maybe DOTA2 will break the mold since its a clone of the WC3 mod, but Valve does not strike me as a serious esports company.
they've done amazing things for dota2 so far, esports-wise
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Im not really sure why people say sc2 will die. ever since the wcs, views have been up. yeah, streams have been down but i think that might be because people really have become bored of streams.
Watching a player play without game commentary or smooth obersving might have just gotten old. Streams from popular views still get thousands of viewers.
This isn't any different for LOL... any player stream doesn't get more than 10k views, the top LOL player streams get as many views as top sc2 player streams.
Just because alot more players play LOL doesn't mean sc2 will die. as long as there are viewers sc2 will live. you can watch sc2 but hardly ever play it, and i will bet alot of viewers are in this position.
You can see this especially with the youtube views. Husky/HD/psy/day9/any other popular still gets tens of thousands of views for every video they get out. Husky is still steadily cruising at 80k+ for ever game and sometimes over 200k for good games.
GSL code S still has hundreds of thousands of viewers, in the VOD and livestream combined.
If sc2 wants more people playing instead of watching, the arcade just needs to be improved, LAN needs to be added and needs to go f2p.
I think all the boredom has come from the stale PvZ matchup and Z matchups in general. Anyone will get bored after watching 100 twenty minute turtle up and get a deathball fest in PvZ, the collosus fest in PvP and just boring turtle games without any action apart from a couple short battles deciding the game.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
I do really wonder where Blizzard failed. Did they fail because they did not address to the masses (where LoL, for example, does)? Or did Blizzard fail by not focusing on the game at the highest level (progaming)? It really feels that their focus is somewhere in between, which is the problem.
SC2 greatly taxes you due to the 1v1 situation, the investment you make into a ~20/30 minute game both mentally and physically. And this is something which many people can not keep up, as it is not pleasurable for most. There are really no alternatives in the game to this for more casual gamers to calm down. They tried through adding icons and achievements, but really, these are silly and never work on a long-term basis. Warcraft 3 fixed this with 2v2 and 4v4 ladders and random teams, with dota and other UMS. Brood war had great custom maps too. Here, SC2 feels empty. A lot of this could have been prevented with casual ladder systems and casual maps that appeal to the masses, similar to BGH did in BW. Riot once again outperforms Blizzard here, as they added fun modes to the game (Dominion, though it is kind of crap, but the recent ARAM is awesome and addictive), and there are regular games in addition to the ELO-based ladder system, which many people again find taxing and a source of frustration (even if there, you can blame your team mates!)
And for progaming, the game is also crap. BW did a wonderful job here and the expansion saved it. It seems Blizzard is trying, but still failing. It would have been better (upon admitting that Blizzard does not have the knowledge or skills to create a mostly new wonderful game) if the useless units out of BW were replaced by more skillful, active units (such as the scout), and some skillful, active units were added. Oh well.
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On October 17 2012 17:32 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:30 FXOUnstable wrote:On October 17 2012 17:28 tyner wrote:On October 17 2012 17:17 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...
So pessimistic... it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? HDH invational had 35 000 live viewers + ALL of the 300 VoDs it was divided to have 100 000 - 400 000 live viewers. 2000$price pool. TSL4 finals had what, 25 000 liver viewers? The VoDs have 15 000 -20 000 viewers. This is tournament of 35 500$ price pool. mmm I don't think TSL4 is a good example. All the crowd favorites were eliminated early on. The top finishers consisted of under the radar (to most people) Korean players. I know if naNiwa had made it past the 1st round I would've watched it till he went out at least. Actually I think thats a good example of the current state of affairs atm, no matter what prize pool you give it's often being won by unknown koreans so people stop watching, which reduces the turnout over time on events regardless of their prize pool. Can't you say that about LoL, too? Let's say Korea/Taiwan/China take over LoL and the popular teams like TSM, CLG.na, Diginitas get wiped out and it's constantly Asian dominance. Do you think the viewership will continue to grow?
I think it was interesting in the Korean BW scene, you followed all the random players through proleague so you had SOME idea who everyone was. And then you didn't have any crazy stuff happen in the Starleagues. And when it did, the Starleagues were drawn out enough that you could absorb the shock of a noname beating a famous player.
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Depressing. But very true. If it is not recognized, that is because the posters here are the few that actually likes the 1v1 grind.
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On October 17 2012 17:37 bgx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:28 Jerubaal wrote:On October 17 2012 16:53 Myrkskog wrote:On October 17 2012 16:52 Jerubaal wrote:
So you're saying the reason BW was so big is because people were playing BGH a lot? Ok... That's pretty much what I did for 10 years in BW. I didnt play a ton of customs and didn't get into Iccup until season 7. You misunderstand me. I'm asking if the reason for the success of OSL/MSL etc was that people were playing BGH. That makes no sense to me. It certainly didn't contribute to the creation of the talent necessary to run those tournaments successfully. I think some people see the numerical success of LoL and feel the need to lash out at something. It certainly isn't game design. So you want to casualify the game to increase its popularity (this is going on meanwhile at the same an overlapping group is calling the game too easy). This sounds to me like the NBA promoting big dunks and no defense so that every 14 year old can become a Miami Heat fan while appreciation for real basketball is few and far between. You may be popularizing your sport, but you ruin it in the process. If you said that we needed chat channels so that we could get more people interested that way then I'd be more convinced, but a) you're not and b) I've been on TL, twitch chat and IRC channels and not that many people are interested in playing 1v1 seriously. Chat channels are not the problem. What makes no sense for you. That people played CASUALY before they started to play competetively ? Starcraft 1 was big in Korea's PC Bangs before first OSL and MSL aired. Thats why Grrr.... was on television mind you it was before even Boxer reached his position. The game was grinded casually. Its true that was because of economy and sociology related issues. But no game or competition in the world started from competition, it always started as a game.
You aren't playing the game, though. You're playing something else. If everyone was like you and played nothing but BGH for 10 years, BW would have died a long time ago.
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
On October 17 2012 17:40 MasterCynical wrote:
This isn't any different for LOL... any player stream doesn't get more than 10k views, the top LOL player streams get as many views as top sc2 player streams.
This is so wrong. TheOddOne for example gets over 25k on a regular basis. There are MANY streamers with more than 10k almost all the time. Hell, as we speak, on HORRIBLE hours, Froggen has 10k viewers.
Not wanting to stir a debate. But your information is lacking.
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On October 17 2012 17:39 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:37 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:32 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:30 FXOUnstable wrote:On October 17 2012 17:28 tyner wrote:On October 17 2012 17:17 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...
So pessimistic... it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? HDH invational had 35 000 live viewers + ALL of the 300 VoDs it was divided to have 100 000 - 400 000 live viewers. 2000$price pool. TSL4 finals had what, 25 000 liver viewers? The VoDs have 15 000 -20 000 viewers. This is tournament of 35 500$ price pool. mmm I don't think TSL4 is a good example. All the crowd favorites were eliminated early on. The top finishers consisted of under the radar (to most people) Korean players. I know if naNiwa had made it past the 1st round I would've watched it till he went out at least. Actually I think thats a good example of the current state of affairs atm, no matter what prize pool you give it's often being won by unknown koreans so people stop watching, which reduces the turnout over time on events regardless of their prize pool. Can't you say that about LoL, too? Let's say Korea/Taiwan/China take over LoL and the popular teams like TSM, CLG.na, Diginitas get wiped out and it's constantly Asian dominance. Do you think the viewership will continue to grow? It already is,the finals for world championship was a Koreans team vs Taiwan team. The viewership numbers were the biggest ever.The NA scene currently is laughable compared to the Asians and 2 teams in Europe and yet the viewers grow. The reason is that the scenes are very isolated and there is only a couple of tournaments where they meet in a year,on a grand stage. In sc2 people are constantly reminded that the white guys suck dick,where as in LoL the NA scene gets a beating a couple of times in the year and that's it.People are given room for hope I guess. Don't take one case of the GRAND FINALS OF THE WORLD and say it will be like that forever. If the American and European teams get stomped by the Asians constantly, viewership will start to decline.
I told you it's not the case because the scenes are very isolated,there is no LAN and the it's impossible to compete reasonably with a 200-250 ping.
The online tournaments are very region based,so the clash Asians vs NA doesn't happen often at all.
So the individual scenes have a chance to grow a fan base and create "delusional fans",starcraft doesn't have that.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 17 2012 17:42 Beyonder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:40 MasterCynical wrote:
This isn't any different for LOL... any player stream doesn't get more than 10k views, the top LOL player streams get as many views as top sc2 player streams.
This is so wrong. TheOddOne for example gets over 25k on a regular basis. There are MANY streamers with more than 10k almost all the time. Not wanting to stir a debate. But your information is lacking.
This is true. TSM players get huge numbers.
Which is why I believe if the Asian dominance in LoL does occur, you can see similar things happening to the LoL scene as the SC2 scene.
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Russian Federation117 Posts
Bllizzard just has to ask themselves 1 simple question: Why the fuck LoL grew about 100% in one year and SC2 remained the same as 1 year ago (optimistically speaking).
Just check what Riot is doing with their game and ask yourself a question: why every LoL tournament gets 200K + viewers?
When you find an answer to that question, START MAKING CHANGES TO SC2 so that it can start growing by attracting more CASUAL players!
Totally agree with Destiny.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 17 2012 17:42 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:39 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:37 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:32 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:30 FXOUnstable wrote:On October 17 2012 17:28 tyner wrote:On October 17 2012 17:17 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...
So pessimistic... it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? HDH invational had 35 000 live viewers + ALL of the 300 VoDs it was divided to have 100 000 - 400 000 live viewers. 2000$price pool. TSL4 finals had what, 25 000 liver viewers? The VoDs have 15 000 -20 000 viewers. This is tournament of 35 500$ price pool. mmm I don't think TSL4 is a good example. All the crowd favorites were eliminated early on. The top finishers consisted of under the radar (to most people) Korean players. I know if naNiwa had made it past the 1st round I would've watched it till he went out at least. Actually I think thats a good example of the current state of affairs atm, no matter what prize pool you give it's often being won by unknown koreans so people stop watching, which reduces the turnout over time on events regardless of their prize pool. Can't you say that about LoL, too? Let's say Korea/Taiwan/China take over LoL and the popular teams like TSM, CLG.na, Diginitas get wiped out and it's constantly Asian dominance. Do you think the viewership will continue to grow? It already is,the finals for world championship was a Koreans team vs Taiwan team. The viewership numbers were the biggest ever.The NA scene currently is laughable compared to the Asians and 2 teams in Europe and yet the viewers grow. The reason is that the scenes are very isolated and there is only a couple of tournaments where they meet in a year,on a grand stage. In sc2 people are constantly reminded that the white guys suck dick,where as in LoL the NA scene gets a beating a couple of times in the year and that's it.People are given room for hope I guess. Don't take one case of the GRAND FINALS OF THE WORLD and say it will be like that forever. If the American and European teams get stomped by the Asians constantly, viewership will start to decline. I told you it's not the case because the scenes are very isolated,there is no LAN and the it's impossible to compete reasonably with a 200-250 ping. The online tournaments are very region based,so the clash Asians vs NA doesn't happen often at all.
Online LoL tournaments don't draw 100,000+ numbers.
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On October 17 2012 17:27 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:15 Veldril wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...
So pessimistic... it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? Define so bad. I don't see a big tournament with number less than 30k recently. And please don't compare the number to that of LoL or DotA2. That's different genre. i keep seeing this genre argument pop up, sponsors dont care about what genre of game theyre sponsoring. they allocate their budget depending on the popularity of the game. im sure they dont give 2 fucks about what game theyre sponsoring as long as they they have the biggest bang for their buck, meaning the most eyes on their product the real issue here is blizzards lack of commitment towards helping the growth of sc2, wcs was an excellent start but theyre still a far ways off from what riot managed to do with LoL. HoN arguably had a better product in terms of gameplay compared to LoL yet theyre pretty much dead now, whereas LoL is the currently the biggest esport
Of course they care -_-
Let's look at it this way. Assuming average viewers of each major LoL tournament is 150,000 and SC2 is 50,000. If they only sponsor and market their products only to LoL side, then it's mean they miss out 50k of possible customers. That's why they also sponsor the less viewer games too. Beside, they have more bargain power over the organizers of smaller games.
So the situation would be like they would still sponsor Sc2 tourney but might give out less money than what they give to LoL. That is not really a bad things. It could be better sure but it is not the end of the world, especially if the majority of viewers are willing to pay for HD Pass.
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On October 17 2012 17:44 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:42 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:39 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:37 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:32 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:30 FXOUnstable wrote:On October 17 2012 17:28 tyner wrote:On October 17 2012 17:17 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...
So pessimistic... it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? HDH invational had 35 000 live viewers + ALL of the 300 VoDs it was divided to have 100 000 - 400 000 live viewers. 2000$price pool. TSL4 finals had what, 25 000 liver viewers? The VoDs have 15 000 -20 000 viewers. This is tournament of 35 500$ price pool. mmm I don't think TSL4 is a good example. All the crowd favorites were eliminated early on. The top finishers consisted of under the radar (to most people) Korean players. I know if naNiwa had made it past the 1st round I would've watched it till he went out at least. Actually I think thats a good example of the current state of affairs atm, no matter what prize pool you give it's often being won by unknown koreans so people stop watching, which reduces the turnout over time on events regardless of their prize pool. Can't you say that about LoL, too? Let's say Korea/Taiwan/China take over LoL and the popular teams like TSM, CLG.na, Diginitas get wiped out and it's constantly Asian dominance. Do you think the viewership will continue to grow? It already is,the finals for world championship was a Koreans team vs Taiwan team. The viewership numbers were the biggest ever.The NA scene currently is laughable compared to the Asians and 2 teams in Europe and yet the viewers grow. The reason is that the scenes are very isolated and there is only a couple of tournaments where they meet in a year,on a grand stage. In sc2 people are constantly reminded that the white guys suck dick,where as in LoL the NA scene gets a beating a couple of times in the year and that's it.People are given room for hope I guess. Don't take one case of the GRAND FINALS OF THE WORLD and say it will be like that forever. If the American and European teams get stomped by the Asians constantly, viewership will start to decline. I told you it's not the case because the scenes are very isolated,there is no LAN and the it's impossible to compete reasonably with a 200-250 ping. The online tournaments are very region based,so the clash Asians vs NA doesn't happen often at all. Online LoL tournaments don't draw 100,000+ numbers.
Yes they do lol,not every single one,but some of them draw a lot of people
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Beyonder
Netherlands15103 Posts
And most of the reason Koreans winning isnt good for foreign spectator amounts, is because SC2 is still not very good. If SC2 was awesome, then play at the highest level would be an amazing spectator event that everyone would want to see.
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A lot of truth in this writeup. Destiny is right in so many ways and I hope Blizzard sees this. I also hope Activision gets their head out of Blizzard's ass. It'll sound sheepish when I say this, but frankly, I blame Activision. It ruined the small, dedicated developer Blizzard was and turned it into a cliche mass-producer aiming for profit more than development. Brood War gameplay was so nice because it had diversity and it had composure: Star Craft 2 struggles because it takes that same diversity and tries to apply it in new ways that aren't working, but Blizzard wants them to work that way in a sad attempt to gain the game's own identity. The problem with that is that now the game is losing more composure AND you're not helping yourself by severing the connections between a legitimate AAA (success-wise) title with a try-hard AAA sequel.
Example: You can't take a valuable and iconic unit like the Hydralisk from Brood War and split it into two, unequal units to fulfill the original's role. The Roach is monotonous to watch, it's too easy to use (it's basically a-move mixed with stutter-step), and it's not pleasing to play against. Hydras in SC2 are flimsy and cost a load for what they're needed for, if "needed" is a proper term. The Brood War Hydra was fantastic gameplay-wise because it signified that Tier 2 unit that you knew could easily show up and knew could give you problems within reason. They meshed really well with the Tier 1 Zerglings and had a lot of uses to it. It was intimidating, but still manageable. In SC2 it's just a bunch of processes that one repeats when called for that leads to a win. In PvZ, you have to use Force Fields or Immortals to beat Roach Rushes by decent players. Beyond the satisfaction of the win and knowing you can stop Roach Rushes almost every time, it's just stale and sadly predictable.
And what Destiny said about Ladder anxiety is completely right. I never want to play it because I'm stuck in Bronze (as a result of wonky placement matches from last season going 0-5, even though I won against a Gold player handily for this season's placement) and I need to be in higher leagues. I have no incentive to beat up on lower players nor do I want to play a game to where I'm clueless whether or not I'm actually getting better. I just realized these past few weeks that despite the hype and awesomeness that is StarCraft, it's just another video game with professional gamers. Destiny put it absolutely right when he said the skill ceiling is too high, that this game caters too much to professionals (because it's all about revenue and money for/from sponsors), and this game offers little transition for the casual gamer to be competitive.
I love SC2 and I'll most-likely continue playing it for a years to come. I can't wait for HotS in many ways and I can't wait for unranked ladder. However, I'm still annoyed that compositions and gameplay is so vanilla. It feels like Blizzard really just tried to make things different to make them different, without realistically looking at how pleasing or not pleasing those differences are to gameplay. There is too much controversy in balance with SC2, not in the sense of people whining, but in the sense that everything just feels off in so many ways.
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I like how people talk with future tense "this game will be doomed", lol, this game is already doomed guys . D3 and SC2 are unfortunately the ghosts of their previous forms.
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On October 17 2012 17:44 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:44 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:42 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:39 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:37 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:32 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:30 FXOUnstable wrote:On October 17 2012 17:28 tyner wrote:On October 17 2012 17:17 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:
[quote]
it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? HDH invational had 35 000 live viewers + ALL of the 300 VoDs it was divided to have 100 000 - 400 000 live viewers. 2000$price pool. TSL4 finals had what, 25 000 liver viewers? The VoDs have 15 000 -20 000 viewers. This is tournament of 35 500$ price pool. mmm I don't think TSL4 is a good example. All the crowd favorites were eliminated early on. The top finishers consisted of under the radar (to most people) Korean players. I know if naNiwa had made it past the 1st round I would've watched it till he went out at least. Actually I think thats a good example of the current state of affairs atm, no matter what prize pool you give it's often being won by unknown koreans so people stop watching, which reduces the turnout over time on events regardless of their prize pool. Can't you say that about LoL, too? Let's say Korea/Taiwan/China take over LoL and the popular teams like TSM, CLG.na, Diginitas get wiped out and it's constantly Asian dominance. Do you think the viewership will continue to grow? It already is,the finals for world championship was a Koreans team vs Taiwan team. The viewership numbers were the biggest ever.The NA scene currently is laughable compared to the Asians and 2 teams in Europe and yet the viewers grow. The reason is that the scenes are very isolated and there is only a couple of tournaments where they meet in a year,on a grand stage. In sc2 people are constantly reminded that the white guys suck dick,where as in LoL the NA scene gets a beating a couple of times in the year and that's it.People are given room for hope I guess. Don't take one case of the GRAND FINALS OF THE WORLD and say it will be like that forever. If the American and European teams get stomped by the Asians constantly, viewership will start to decline. I told you it's not the case because the scenes are very isolated,there is no LAN and the it's impossible to compete reasonably with a 200-250 ping. The online tournaments are very region based,so the clash Asians vs NA doesn't happen often at all. Online LoL tournaments don't draw 100,000+ numbers. Yes they do lol
The online tourneys?
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United States23455 Posts
On October 17 2012 17:44 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:44 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:42 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:39 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:37 TheKefka wrote:On October 17 2012 17:32 Fionn wrote:On October 17 2012 17:30 FXOUnstable wrote:On October 17 2012 17:28 tyner wrote:On October 17 2012 17:17 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:
[quote]
it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? HDH invational had 35 000 live viewers + ALL of the 300 VoDs it was divided to have 100 000 - 400 000 live viewers. 2000$price pool. TSL4 finals had what, 25 000 liver viewers? The VoDs have 15 000 -20 000 viewers. This is tournament of 35 500$ price pool. mmm I don't think TSL4 is a good example. All the crowd favorites were eliminated early on. The top finishers consisted of under the radar (to most people) Korean players. I know if naNiwa had made it past the 1st round I would've watched it till he went out at least. Actually I think thats a good example of the current state of affairs atm, no matter what prize pool you give it's often being won by unknown koreans so people stop watching, which reduces the turnout over time on events regardless of their prize pool. Can't you say that about LoL, too? Let's say Korea/Taiwan/China take over LoL and the popular teams like TSM, CLG.na, Diginitas get wiped out and it's constantly Asian dominance. Do you think the viewership will continue to grow? It already is,the finals for world championship was a Koreans team vs Taiwan team. The viewership numbers were the biggest ever.The NA scene currently is laughable compared to the Asians and 2 teams in Europe and yet the viewers grow. The reason is that the scenes are very isolated and there is only a couple of tournaments where they meet in a year,on a grand stage. In sc2 people are constantly reminded that the white guys suck dick,where as in LoL the NA scene gets a beating a couple of times in the year and that's it.People are given room for hope I guess. Don't take one case of the GRAND FINALS OF THE WORLD and say it will be like that forever. If the American and European teams get stomped by the Asians constantly, viewership will start to decline. I told you it's not the case because the scenes are very isolated,there is no LAN and the it's impossible to compete reasonably with a 200-250 ping. The online tournaments are very region based,so the clash Asians vs NA doesn't happen often at all. Online LoL tournaments don't draw 100,000+ numbers. Yes they do lol
Can I have examples? I'm not super well versed in LoL e-sports, but I don't remember an online LoL tournament getting massive numbers. IPL had qualifiers that were around the same as SC2.
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On October 17 2012 17:36 Cuce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:24 Tobberoth wrote:On October 17 2012 17:21 soullogik wrote:
sc2 was flawed from the beginning.
hots looks like its more of the same.
if LoL is the future of esports, welp time to give up.
just gonna have to wait another 5 years for some developers to step up.
tho it doesn't look too good as most developers prefer to just shit out casual games to keep the masses entertained for a few weeks/month's.
This is why we need to put our faith in Dota 2. Amazing game? Check. Far from casual? Check. Good company supporting it? Check. Potential to get a lot of viewers? Check. dude, why do i have to put my faith on a game I dont like, not amazing, so casual, not a good company suğpporting it, just becaue it might get alot of numbers. We are not in it for numbers, we never were. we dont care about numbers. I dont enjot dota2, or lol, not one is better than other, and both is garbage compared to sc2. they are not a good step to take foward if foward is playing good games. I see no reason fo support these games.
Too fucking bad, I like Monster Truck Rally 1998, why should I support any other game, and I EXPECT PEOPLE TO MAKE A BIG SCENE FOR MONSTER TRUCK RALLY!
Sorry bro, but you have to be realistic. Dota 2 has potential to be a great esports game, whether or not YOU like it (which is irrelevant). SC2 had potential and has had a great run, but it's questionable how much more it can grow and if it won't be declining.
And you have obviously never played Dota 2 if you think it's "so casual", that's a ridiculous claim. So how about you go play it, and THEN decide if it's "garbage".
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On October 17 2012 17:30 FXOUnstable wrote:Show nested quote +On October 17 2012 17:28 tyner wrote:On October 17 2012 17:17 Sea_Food wrote:On October 17 2012 17:11 Akhee wrote:On October 17 2012 17:09 dynwar7 wrote:
Destiny can think/say what he wants....but only time will tell if SC2 is truly going to die or not...
So pessimistic... it already started to die, viewer number has never been so bad, no real way to come back from that even when kespa + hots is coming.... why dont you believe its dying? HDH invational had 35 000 live viewers + ALL of the 300 VoDs it was divided to have 100 000 - 400 000 live viewers. 2000$price pool. TSL4 finals had what, 25 000 liver viewers? The VoDs have 15 000 -20 000 viewers. This is tournament of 35 500$ price pool. mmm I don't think TSL4 is a good example. All the crowd favorites were eliminated early on. The top finishers consisted of under the radar (to most people) Korean players. I know if naNiwa had made it past the 1st round I would've watched it till he went out at least. Actually I think thats a good example of the current state of affairs atm, no matter what prize pool you give it's often being won by unknown koreans so people stop watching, which reduces the turnout over time on events regardless of their prize pool.
No, it was the TSL system that lead to those players being there. TSL4 had 3 invites, and the rest qualified through a very very tough process.
Anyways, I don't think IPL/NASL/MLG/etc have any problems, and neither does SC2. These organizations are still in their infancy, and they've raised a whole lotta money over the past 2 years. Back then I thought IPL/NASL wouldn't last more than 1 or 2 season. But they've continually raised the prize pool and continue to gather more sponsors and more investors. Destiny says prize pools haven't expanded, which isn't true. Look at how many showmatches and side tournaments are going on now compared to 2010/2011. NASL is literally throwing money at players with their new system. Then there's been fun tourneys like IPL Ye Old Map thing and NASL King of the Hill series.
Yeah, stream numbers on individual tourneys may have gone down recently, but people are finding new (and fun to watch) ways to market to us.
I've got to admit HotS is a huge disappointment though. Barely any new units D: The hype and viewers disappearing after a week is pretty interesting. I would rather read about that then an angry rant.
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EPT
