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Just so we're clear. If you pay someone for a service, and that service is then not rendered for an extended period of the agreed upon time, they can't keep your money even without a receipt. Though I'm all for it and I would encourage everyone to get a receipt in cases like this, if I have to read Destiny or any other idiot post anything more that implies that it would be legally ok for MoW to keep the money because there's no receipt or signed contract, I will blow up a bunny. They still entered into an agreement, they were the ones that told him to leave and they abso-fucking-lutely have to give him the money back for any time he didn't spend there.
Let me just cover myself in saying that in Europe a verbal agreement is still binding, maybe Destiny is not being an idiot but rather just plainly misinformed in that he's following some wacky US law I'm unfamiliar with that would most certainly not apply here.
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On September 13 2012 05:10 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:09 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:57 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread? Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all! "Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world? Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc... Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him. etc...etc...etc... There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business. I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance. >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy.
Dude?
I think we all got your only point you have to provide to this topic.
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On September 13 2012 05:15 Catatonic wrote:
I don't see the part about streaming being an issue so there's no right to complain about it but the rest seems kind of hinky so I would probably advise others against going there if that's truly what is going on.
It would mean if you are a popular streamer (or just a good player) you have to pay more. Not exactly a reason to freak out but I can see why some players can have an issue with that.
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On September 13 2012 05:13 BadBinky wrote:Oh well time to email some sponsors I guess.
this .
User was warned for this post
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11 Posts
I don't see how any logical person can draw conclusions without hearing both parties and their statements. Of course it's natural to have bias until all the facts are presented, but the sad truth is that there's no absolute way of knowing exactly what happened.
All I can conclude is given the extreme cut-throat nature that esports has taken given the fact there's practically no regulations applying to international affairs, or an international player union to protect rights under national law case by case.. (not meaning to go into how this can't be a possibility at this time) this story seems plausible. That's all it can be, and all it ever will be. There isn't going to be justice at the end of this, and I'm sure the OP is fine with that. I respect anyone coming forth to protest unfair dealings, but the fact remains as long as there's fresh high school graduates (I'm generalizing a point, relax) willing to sign their rights away because they have little concept of how the world is ran just to chase a dream they believe is attainable.
Let's just wait and see how vague the PR response is and how little proof they offer to back their claims before bashing completely. The truth usually lies somewhere in between the two, just use best judgment what side it's weighted on.
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On September 13 2012 05:16 sVnteen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:07 StarStruck wrote:On September 13 2012 05:06 sVnteen wrote:
oh ret I hope you didn't sign the same contract... I don't think Jos plans on starting his own house anytime soon, so I'm sure he's fine with it. well he might want to go to korea to the TL house (fuzer says that he wouldn't even have been allowed to join a house as a player) and even if he wouldn't want to join another team house he might want to be a coach for a liquid teamhouse or something in some years ...
Miscommunication there bud, from the sound of it you wouldn't be able to start your own house. You should read all pages instead of just a few posts. ;/
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On September 13 2012 05:16 Vermiiifuuge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:14 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:12 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:10 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:09 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:57 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread? Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all! "Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world? Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc... Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him. etc...etc...etc... There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business. I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance. >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy. I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other. Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro. Please tell me which part of the business world you work in where NDA's do not exist. I dont work, I'm an unemployed nolife SC2 addict, but please enlighten me what that has to do with anything?
Everything. If you can't make this basic associations there's a reason it's assumed you can't keep up with the subject matter. It doesn't help you're unemployed either, without a daily dosage of the business world.
EDIT: Didn't realize you were even arguing with Destiny in the first place (didn't read username), who is a much more relevant figure in this conversation.
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On September 13 2012 05:18 Kernkraft wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:10 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:09 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:57 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread? Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all! "Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world? Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc... Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him. etc...etc...etc... There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business. I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance. >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy. Dude? I think we all got your only point you have to provide to this topic.
Why don't you say that to the other guy that's actually wrong in the matter?
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On September 13 2012 05:16 pallad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:14 ilbh wrote:On September 13 2012 05:12 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:59 mememolly wrote:On September 13 2012 04:57 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/ Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or... You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house. Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good. Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here.. Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here. he got it slightly wrong but it's understandable when english isn't his first language, chill out, you obviously have a vested interest here True i have some.. because i care for polish e-sport , like i think everyone hwo is interested in e-sports will do for own country. They put a lot of work to make this house working , eveyone who was in the house ( snute , cyto etc ) say it was superb and very profesional and they are happy that they go to Poland , everyone who is in house now say the same Sage , Ret Wilko , all say everything is ok.. But like i write before it all this what Fuzer write is true im goona go to MoW house and kick boss ass for real , for fucking this up. But if this is not true ... then polish e-sport will suffer for nothing.. because of one player..then it not good and fair. it's not about polish esports, it's about MoW and that's it. and stop saying that fuzer is lying, there is no reason for him to do that and you don't have anything to prove against him. Gaming house with players from all over to world.. is e-sport for me..
but not POLISH esports, it's not hurting POLISH esports, but just the MoW.
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On September 13 2012 05:15 teaCher wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:13 BadBinky wrote:Oh well time to email some sponsors I guess. Nice do it!! I'm already on my 4th one, from separate emails!!
Jesus christ are you the loneliest man in the world?
At least wait for the official announcements, if it's BS then go right ahead, people who e-mail sponsors whenever they get the chance are like the bitter old grannies of the e-sports community.
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On September 13 2012 05:16 Vermiiifuuge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:14 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:12 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:10 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:09 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:57 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread? Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all! "Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world? Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc... Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him. etc...etc...etc... There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business. I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance. >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy. I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other. Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro. Please tell me which part of the business world you work in where NDA's do not exist. I dont work, I'm an unemployed nolife SC2 addict, but please enlighten me what that has to do with anything?
It has to do with business experience. Stop arguing about it, NDA's are everywhere nowadays, in sports, in software engineering, you name it. Either you are trolling or you are being an ignorant dumbass. Please stop doing that.
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On September 13 2012 05:17 Butterednuts wrote:
Welcome to bad publicity, MoW.
Funny how the SC2 community and scene only seems to generate bad publicity.
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On September 13 2012 05:12 torm3ntin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:07 mikkmagro wrote:
a) Do you often go to your first day of work (let alone in a foreign country), without having read the employment contract first? You should've asked for it, and got someone fluent in English (hell, even from TL) BEFORE leaving Finland.
b) Never enter into a costly venture without first making sure everything is understood (and thus, a contract the terms of which are mutually agreed to by the parties).
c) Non compete clauses are not uncommon, particularly in employment contracts for fields of businesses which might be deemed 'innovative'.
d) A non-compete clause would be extremely hard and costly for MoW to enforce, especially if you're in a different country.
e) The contract talks about setting up a house yourself, or becoming a coach in such a house; it is NOT a prohibition from entering any other gaming house - this is just misinformation.
f) Whoever said that the contract needed to be in Finnish is wrong. Some contracts must be translated, such as transactions involving immovable property etc, but not a rendition of service and a revenue share agreement like this one. (this might differ from country to country, but I doubt that it is widely different across continental Europe).
g) As regards the money from streaming, it's unfair of them not to have mentioned it (though it was pretty obvious, as the MoW guys have talked about them scheduling streams from their players in interviews etc in the past), even so, people should condemn them for not having mentioned it, but not for asking for it. This is a very time-consuming business at the end of the day, they have a right to make money off it, particularly since they're the only people who offer such a service (unless you're on one of the few teams owning a house). You are wrong sir. He payed 600 EUR he entered the house and played. for him his deal was done. Then contracts came up with the things he dislike and they started the discussion. It's not about going to your first day of work without knowing how much you will earn or how things work. It's more like a commercial trade. Give me money. I provide you stuff. And suddenly later on a contract with EXTRA stuff appears.
It's still the same thing. You don't enter a commercial transaction of that sort without asking for the contract first. I'm sorry, that's just being naive. Hell, for a guy on Youtube to commentate the games of my LoL team, I got a contract. When my uni student organisation prints a magazine or something, we get a contract, and if there are terms to which we don't agree, we negotiate, and if we can't agree, we go somewhere else. I just can't fathom why MoW and Fuzer didn't resolve this situation at least on the day he got there - money shouldn't have been exchanged.
(as people have mentioned before, there is still an agreement without a contract, and no, MoW can't keep the money he paid in advance.)
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On September 13 2012 05:14 Ficetool wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:12 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:10 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:09 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:57 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread? Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all! "Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world? Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc... Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him. etc...etc...etc... There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business. I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance. >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy. I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other. Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro. Now you are behaving like a 12 year old...just saying Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:13 BadBinky wrote:Oh well time to email some sponsors I guess. and the idiots go for it again....not even waiting for any kind of statement or anything...want me to bring you a torch for the witch hunt? How can people possibly be this stupid and immature on the internet....I simply can't understand it...
I think he was joking..
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On September 13 2012 05:12 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 03:52 seanisgrand wrote:
12 players. 7200 euro/mo for rent PLUS a cut of a minimum of 60 hours of their streaming profits DAILY.
Better be feeding them hella good...
oh wait You're from the U.S. That rent, by U.S. standards, would be atrociously insufficient. Of course, it may be in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, I don't know, but considering the services provided, I would say they could not come even close to covering their costs with 7200 euros per month. It's simply not realistic. Also, streaming revenue is highly dependent on the player. If you're one of the people with 120 viewers, your streaming revenue is negligible anyways. MoW is meant to be a business. While I think the 10-year thing is ridiculous if true concerning joining another team, it is completely reasonable in terms of opening a house of their own (assuming it's for-profit). I would assume streaming revenue couldn't be taken on their "days off" like weekends or whatever as well. The fact food is even supplied at 600 Euros a month, with gas/water, Internet/utilities, and the actual amount of equipment and services provided, is once again, in my eyes, a fucking steal. I'd bet if they disclosed their financial statements you'd find they'd be operating on a very marginal profit margin. I'd be surprised if they've been able to even recoup their initial total investment, which is most likely leveraged in the first place and thus they'll also have to pay interest. People that think the costs to the players are ridiculous are people that have absolutely no concept of finances.
Where the hell do you live?
Hi, I'm from NYC and have also lived in Buffalo. Rent with utilities and living expenses are $900 and $500 respectively if you cook. You must be wealthy or... idk. The numbers you're giving out sounds ridiculous really. SOme of the numbers you give make sense, but if you really search around then it's more than possible.
Anyways, if what you say is true for yourself then come here to Buffalo or NYC (which is apparently buttfuck nowhere). haha.
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On September 13 2012 05:12 FabledIntegral wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 03:52 seanisgrand wrote:
12 players. 7200 euro/mo for rent PLUS a cut of a minimum of 60 hours of their streaming profits DAILY.
Better be feeding them hella good...
oh wait You're from the U.S. That rent, by U.S. standards, would be atrociously insufficient. Of course, it may be in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, I don't know, but considering the services provided, I would say they could not come even close to covering their costs with 7200 euros per month. It's simply not realistic. Also, streaming revenue is highly dependent on the player. If you're one of the people with 120 viewers, your streaming revenue is negligible anyways. MoW is meant to be a business. While I think the 10-year thing is ridiculous if true concerning joining another team, it is completely reasonable in terms of opening a house of their own (assuming it's for-profit). I would assume streaming revenue couldn't be taken on their "days off" like weekends or whatever as well. The fact food is even supplied at 600 Euros a month, with gas/water, Internet/utilities, and the actual amount of equipment and services provided, is once again, in my eyes, a fucking steal. I'd bet if they disclosed their financial statements you'd find they'd be operating on a very marginal profit margin. I'd be surprised if they've been able to even recoup their initial total investment, which is most likely leveraged in the first place and thus they'll also have to pay interest. People that think the costs to the players are ridiculous are people that have absolutely no concept of finances.
Sorry but you're wrong about the rent figure being ludicrous. It entirely depends on where you're living. If you're in Manhattan, NYC, or Westwood, LA, then sure, rent @ 600 euros (~770 dollars) per month per person would be "atrociously insufficient". Maybe you should cite your source for "U.S. standards", if such a thing exists, because I'd be curious to know what the average "monthly rental per person" rate is in the U.S...
So to the point, ~$770/month is actually MORE than many people pay in many less popular/wealthy cities -- and these are not cities, as you say, that are located in the middle of "buttfuck nowhere".
Just needed to clear that up.
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On September 13 2012 05:19 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:16 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:14 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:12 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:10 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 05:09 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:57 Vermiiifuuge wrote:On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread? Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all! "Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world? Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc... Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him. etc...etc...etc... There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business. I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance. >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy. I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other. Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro. Please tell me which part of the business world you work in where NDA's do not exist. I dont work, I'm an unemployed nolife SC2 addict, but please enlighten me what that has to do with anything? It has to do with business experience. Stop arguing about it, NDA's are everywhere nowadays, in sports, in software engineering, you name it. Either you are trolling or you are being an ignorant dumbass. Please stop doing that.
Just because it's the way of the world doesnt mean it's right.
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Why is anyone concerned with the contract at all? It's up to MoW to determine what sort of contract they want and whether they require a NDA to review the contract. The terms of the contract are only applicable if both parties agree to those terms.
I'm curious about European law. Without a contract, there is no written rent agreement. I'm not sure how verbal agreements would hold in Polish courts.
The boss guy sounds quite shady, that really should be the focus of the discussion.
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On September 13 2012 05:18 xsnac wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 05:13 BadBinky wrote:Oh well time to email some sponsors I guess. this .
NO! NOT THIS! Don't email the sponsers! You'll just be pushing them away from putting money into esports! Boycott MoW instead!
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On September 13 2012 05:09 zere wrote:
Samuli where are you now do you need a place to stay for the weekend?
You are a scholar. The first thing you worry about is the person. =)
Must be your nationality! We Germans are so nice! :D
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EPT
