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Stop derailing with living cost talk On September 13 2012 07:51 MinistryOfWin wrote: Press Release: http://www.ministryofwin.com/news/press-release-september-13th-2012 Stay tuned for the article on ESFIWORLD.com. - Wednesday, Sep 12 10:51pm GMT (GMT+00:00) On September 13 2012 08:02 MinistryOfWin wrote: http://esfiworld.com/news/ministry-win-respond-fuzers-claims - Wednesday, Sep 12 11:02pm GMT (GMT+00:00) | ||
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xHQx
Russian Federation601 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:05 Dumbtruck wrote: If Fuzer is not getting his money back I'm not going to watch or support anything MoW is associated with. Complete boycott. i agree. Will do the same. | ||
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Bajsgrodan
Afghanistan408 Posts
GJ Fuzer, ( btw still the funniest streamer on TL [and best music] ) | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:07 Leijona wrote: Turns out MoW "boss" is some old criminal. Funny that all the Polish have been silent of this all along. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/zs2bh/drama_in_mow_house/c678kmj Oh oh, if I knew about it I would certainly call it. Don't stir up any country bashing here, ok? Interesting find though, I didnt know this guy did some scams in the fast. That certainly fucks over his reputation. | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:09 Vermiiifuuge wrote: I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance. >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy. | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
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HowardRoark
1146 Posts
On September 13 2012 04:59 mememolly wrote: he got it slightly wrong but it's understandable when english isn't his first language, chill out, you obviously have a vested interest here Maybe make sure to get it completely correct and not slightly wrong before outing someone like this if the reason was language barriers. Now I do not know if that was the reason, but, I often see these vilification threads on TL and people start jumping on the band wagon before hearing both sides of the story. However, the accusations could all be true of course, but with only one side of a coin one should always be threading carefully. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote: "Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world? Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc... Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him. etc...etc...etc... There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business. So why do you say stuff like: "As for the 'not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years,' that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years." ? Apparently you only have access to your own contract, therefore (following your logic) you dont know shit what's in Fuzer's contract. Take your own fucking advice. | ||
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NOOBALOPSE
Canada802 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:46 Chaggi wrote: The streaming thing, okay, whatever. The 10 year thing? lol no Lol, no, not even the streaming. 35 hours a week? Let me tell you, 5 hours of streamed practice is much worse than 5 hours of normal practice... That's just my experience. I think it's okay that they get a cut of the money but... :'/ | ||
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P7GAB
Canada486 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:05 NeMeSiS3 wrote: Pretty stupid post, hope you get banned for it. He obviously has trouble with english, not "sketchbag"... Actually if it goes to court and there was no signed contract while say he stayed for 1-5 or so days it should hold up that he gets his money back. You can't invite people to an establishment, take their money and because they want a lawyer to look over the documents kick them out and steal their money. you don't always get what you wish for #YOLO | ||
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pallad
Poland1958 Posts
On September 13 2012 04:59 mememolly wrote: he got it slightly wrong but it's understandable when english isn't his first language, chill out, you obviously have a vested interest here True i have some.. because i care for polish e-sport , like i think everyone hwo is interested in e-sports will do for own country. They put a lot of work to make this house working , eveyone who was in the house ( snute , cyto etc ) say it was superb and very profesional and they are happy that they go to Poland , everyone who is in house now say the same Sage , Ret Wilko , all say everything is ok.. But like i write before it all this what Fuzer write is true im goona go to MoW house and kick boss ass for real , for fucking this up. But if this is not true ... then polish e-sport will suffer for nothing.. because of one player..then it not good and fair. | ||
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torm3ntin
Brazil2534 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:07 mikkmagro wrote: a) Do you often go to your first day of work (let alone in a foreign country), without having read the employment contract first? You should've asked for it, and got someone fluent in English (hell, even from TL) BEFORE leaving Finland. b) Never enter into a costly venture without first making sure everything is understood (and thus, a contract the terms of which are mutually agreed to by the parties). c) Non compete clauses are not uncommon, particularly in employment contracts for fields of businesses which might be deemed 'innovative'. d) A non-compete clause would be extremely hard and costly for MoW to enforce, especially if you're in a different country. e) The contract talks about setting up a house yourself, or becoming a coach in such a house; it is NOT a prohibition from entering any other gaming house - this is just misinformation. f) Whoever said that the contract needed to be in Finnish is wrong. Some contracts must be translated, such as transactions involving immovable property etc, but not a rendition of service and a revenue share agreement like this one. (this might differ from country to country, but I doubt that it is widely different across continental Europe). g) As regards the money from streaming, it's unfair of them not to have mentioned it (though it was pretty obvious, as the MoW guys have talked about them scheduling streams from their players in interviews etc in the past), even so, people should condemn them for not having mentioned it, but not for asking for it. This is a very time-consuming business at the end of the day, they have a right to make money off it, particularly since they're the only people who offer such a service (unless you're on one of the few teams owning a house). You are wrong sir. He payed 600 EUR he entered the house and played. for him his deal was done. Then contracts came up with the things he dislike and they started the discussion. It's not about going to your first day of work without knowing how much you will earn or how things work. It's more like a commercial trade. Give me money. I provide you stuff. And suddenly later on a contract with EXTRA stuff appears. | ||
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Vermiiifuuge
Korea (South)112 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:10 Destiny wrote: >quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. >thinks NDA's are fishy Pick 1, buddy. I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other. Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro. | ||
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Saechiis
Netherlands4989 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:07 Leijona wrote: Turns out MoW "boss" is some old criminal. Funny that all the Polish have been silent of this all along. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/zs2bh/drama_in_mow_house/c678kmj Criminal is a bit far fetched, let's not make this another silly witchhunt because people are bored. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On September 13 2012 03:52 seanisgrand wrote: 12 players. 7200 euro/mo for rent PLUS a cut of a minimum of 60 hours of their streaming profits DAILY. Better be feeding them hella good... oh wait You're from the U.S. That rent, by U.S. standards, would be atrociously insufficient. Of course, it may be in the middle of buttfuck nowhere, I don't know, but considering the services provided, I would say they could not come even close to covering their costs with 7200 euros per month. It's simply not realistic. Also, streaming revenue is highly dependent on the player. If you're one of the people with 120 viewers, your streaming revenue is negligible anyways. MoW is meant to be a business. While I think the 10-year thing is ridiculous if true concerning joining another team, it is completely reasonable in terms of opening a house of their own (assuming it's for-profit). I would assume streaming revenue couldn't be taken on their "days off" like weekends or whatever as well. The fact food is even supplied at 600 Euros a month, with gas/water, Internet/utilities, and the actual amount of equipment and services provided, is once again, in my eyes, a fucking steal. I'd bet if they disclosed their financial statements you'd find they'd be operating on a very marginal profit margin. I'd be surprised if they've been able to even recoup their initial total investment, which is most likely leveraged in the first place and thus they'll also have to pay interest. People that think the costs to the players are ridiculous are people that have absolutely no concept of finances. | ||
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Darrkhan
Finland1236 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:08 RonNation wrote: Did you read what he typed? Fuzer attempted to get a copy of the contract to his lawyer and MoW refused.. And also if i'm not mistaken MoW came up with idea that fuzer has to pay last of the rent now or he will be kickd out. | ||
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Destiny
United States280 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:11 Zocat wrote: So why do you say stuff like: "As for the 'not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years,' that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years." ? Apparently you only have access to your own contract, therefore (following your logic) you dont know shit what's in Fuzer's contract. Take your own fucking advice. There's no reason for them to change that NCC part of the contract. The only thing in the contract that will vary from player to player will be exact $$$ amounts and maybe length of stay. For them to randomly insert clauses in some contracts defies reason. | ||
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BadBinky
Finland649 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:07 Leijona wrote: Turns out MoW "boss" is some old criminal. Funny that all the Polish have been silent of this all along. http://www.reddit.com/r/starcraft/comments/zs2bh/drama_in_mow_house/c678kmj Oh well time to email some sponsors I guess. | ||
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Ficetool
Germany165 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:12 Vermiiifuuge wrote: I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other. Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro. Now you are behaving like a 12 year old...just saying On September 13 2012 05:13 BadBinky wrote: Oh well time to email some sponsors I guess. and the idiots go for it again....not even waiting for any kind of statement or anything...want me to bring you a torch for the witch hunt? How can people possibly be this stupid and immature on the internet....I simply can't understand it... | ||
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ilbh
Brazil1606 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:12 pallad wrote: True i have some.. because i care for polish e-sport , like i think everyone hwo is interested in e-sports will do for own country. They put a lot of work to make this house working , eveyone who was in the house ( snute , cyto etc ) say it was superb and very profesional and they are happy that they go to Poland , everyone who is in house now say the same Sage , Ret Wilko , all say everything is ok.. But like i write before it all this what Fuzer write is true im goona go to MoW house and kick boss ass for real , for fucking this up. But if this is not true ... then polish e-sport will suffer for nothing.. because of one player..then it not good and fair. it's not about polish esports, it's about MoW and that's it. and stop saying that fuzer is lying, there is no reason for him to do that and you don't have anything to prove against him. | ||
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Torrathyr
Canada95 Posts
On September 13 2012 05:05 Destiny wrote:the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS. and morality* Cuz all businessmen are polite people who do things out of the kindness of their hearts, and not because money is involved. Yep. | ||
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