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On September 13 2012 04:52 tribulator wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:On September 13 2012 04:44 Zorkmid wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Diamond wrote:On September 13 2012 04:34 Zorkmid wrote:
Also, there's nothing standard about a non-competition clause with a timeline exceeding the length of the contract. Assuming a player lived in the house for a year, a non-competition clause cannot extend beyond that year. It's something put it to prevent people from breaking contracts and going to a competitor DURING their contract, not after it. I think this whole situation sucks but just wanted to point out that you obviously know nothing about non-compete clauses, MANY do exist after the length of the contract, it's a pretty regular thing. Show me one. It's applied to every business. Everything I can think of. If they let you go or you decide to resign. It's normal to have a non-compete clause in order to protect the business, but ten years is kind of ridiculous. Usually it's six months to a year. It really depends on the industry. Tech industries can be particularly long with their non-competes (I've got one up to 15 with a specific company and a specific product due to the ease of reproduction and the length of product life), other industries tend to be less.
That's also true. They vary from industry to industry as well.
You should see some of the stuff I have to sign off on. :/
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On September 13 2012 04:57 pallad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/ Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or... You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house. Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good. Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here.. Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here.
he got it slightly wrong but it's understandable when english isn't his first language, chill out, you obviously have a vested interest here
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I'm No lawyer, and i dont know about contract law over in Europe... but i have taken some business law classes that cover contract law
In Canada at least the MoW would have had to point out these "essential" "major" "important" or w/e you want to call them clauses. Especially if English is English is not your major language.
For example: if you brought that contract up to a non english speaking person and they signed it without having it explained to them it would probably be made invalid.
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I'm more worried about the fact that you have to stream for 150 hours a month and then give them a share of your stream revenue. Just mentioning than you are in MoW should be enough exposure for them and then if they players don't wish to stream, they shouldn't have to. This part should be optional, IMO.
If the rent the players pay is not enough, they should just raise it. I don't know why but this seems really weird. If what they wish it's exposure (they have sponsors after all) why do they ask a cut from the stream revenue?
I wouldn't be comfortable signing a contract like that, what if I get sick? what if I have to attend tournaments and I'm not able to stream for 150 hours a month? It would be great if this particular issue was handled a bit better (perhaps, misinformation? not enought information?) Am I just overthinking it? Whatever, I'm glad that the situation about the boss bringing friends over and partying there was already solved. The boss might have not done anything wrong and maybe it was just a misunderstanding but If the boss had been a little more humble and understanding in this situation, I'm pretty sure this wouldn't have happened.
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"If something sounds too good it cant be true" was the thought as i watched the first announcement by them about the "proffesionell" training programm and all that stuff for only 600 €. Even if that contract wouldn´t have any value in germany for example they still can hunt you for ages with their lawyers and make your life to hell. But as somebody said on page 1, storys like this have always 2 sites, will be interesting what they say to this!
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On September 13 2012 04:57 pallad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/ Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or... You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house. Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good. Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here.. Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here.
Then stupid 10 year thing is not the problem. And really how are they to know if I came back home to my country and started my gaming house? or coached in a house? They gonna come and sue me? LMAO . Who cares about the 10 year bullshit, its about him taking Fuzers money, when it should of been given back.
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Tough story. Lets see how it continues.
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On September 13 2012 04:58 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:57 necrimanci wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 Roman666 wrote:On September 13 2012 04:50 necrimanci wrote:
standard poland Someone be so kind and report this poor excuse for a poster please. uh oh. Would it change anything if id say that im from poland? You could be even from North Pole, but it wont change a thing.
me getting reported will ruin my life forever man, i cant take it
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Here's the one thing I don't get. Why would there be a non-competitive clause in a contract when he's the one paying for the service? Non-competitive clauses are pretty standard fares in all employment contracts (although 10 years is pretty ridiculous) but this is not employment. Fuzer is the one paying them for their service of providing room and board/equipment/internet/etc... in addition they also expected to be reimbursed with some of the revenue from his streaming. So why the heck would MoW then somehow expect him to sign a non-competitive clause when they are the ones being compensated for their services? It would be the equivalent of you paying for college for 4 years and then the college saying oh and by the way you can't use what you learned to teach anyone else for the next 10 years. Legally I suppose it might make sense but common sense says no.
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On September 13 2012 04:58 VPVanek wrote:
I have a feeling this is going to turn into he said she said
More emphasis on miscommunication more than anything else. This is what happens when you have guys using several different languages. =/
On September 13 2012 05:00 FryBender wrote:
Here's the one thing I don't get. Why would there be a non-competitive clause in a contract when he's the one paying for the service? Non-competitive clauses are pretty standard fares in all employment contracts (although 10 years is pretty ridiculous) but this is not employment. Fuzer is the one paying them for their service of providing room and board/equipment/internet/etc... in addition they also expected to be reimbursed with some of the revenue from his streaming. So why the heck would MoW then somehow expect him to sign a non-competitive clause when they are the ones being compensated for their services? It would be the equivalent of you paying for college for 4 years and then the college saying oh and by the way you can't use what you learned to teach anyone else for the next 10 years. Legally I suppose it might make sense but common sense says no.
With regards to the non-compete. Yes, they aren't getting paid to be there instead they are paying to use the house. The way I see it is they're trying to protect their practice techniques from getting out.
Make of it what you will.
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I think their conditions would be ok if they were much more lenient. 5 hour a day of streaming is too much and that 10 years thing should be closer to 0-3 months.
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So you're saying they didn't disclose the streaming thing beforehand? That's kind of shady, but honestly it seems like a better thing than if one was just paying increased rent, depending on your streaming revenue.
The 10 year thing is ridiculous terms and I'm not even sure it would hold up in court. Abritrary verbage almost always rules in favor of the defendant in the U.S., and if anything, Europe is far more "pro little guy" than the U.S.
Massive bummer, you should definitely get the prorated amount back as well. You were smart enough to pay via check or wire transfer I assume as opposed to something like cash?
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On September 13 2012 04:56 DarKFoRcE wrote:
To me it seems Destiny is pretty right here. The thing is, even if the Boss of MoW is technically right, its still comes of really badly to treat a player in the house like this. While its good to be very careful when doing business, i personally prefer to do business with people where i dont have to expect to get screwed any moment if i make a mistake.
Looking forward to the other side of the story~
*nod nod*
I think thats all we can do at this point.
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its really over the top, i say , either pay the 600€ or give stream revenue , but both is too much
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This is like hearing that your favorite child hood hero is actually an axe murderer... What a ridiculous fucking contract.
On September 13 2012 04:06 MinistryOfWin wrote:
Official statement of Ministry of Win to be released within two hours.
This better be good with no bullshit because this looks pretty fucked up
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On September 13 2012 04:57 pallad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/ Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or... You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house. Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good. Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here.. Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here.
Poll: Is Pallad part of MoW ManagementYes (132) 72% Total sketchbag (33) 18% No (18) 10% 183 total votes Your vote: Is Pallad part of MoW Management (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Total sketchbag
User was warned for this post
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On September 13 2012 04:57 Vermiiifuuge wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread? Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
User was warned for this post (flaming)
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Ofc pally is part of the management team lol
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On September 13 2012 04:56 DarKFoRcE wrote:
To me it seems Destiny is pretty right here. The thing is, even if the Boss of MoW is technically right, its still comes of really badly to treat a player in the house like this. While its good to be very careful when doing business, i personally prefer to do business with people where i dont have to expect to get screwed any moment if i make a mistake.
Looking forward to the other side of the story~
this 100%. that is something Destiny is missing.
yes, the boss can do whatever he wants, but he is more than a dick for doing so.
if he let someone get into the house without a singed contract, he should not charge him for the month and then kick him and not return what he had paid. this is ridiculous. he is in the "legal right" to do so, but it's a really bad attitude.
I won't be surprised if they are having financial problems, seems like it for such behaviour.
not to mention how amateurish it is to let someone in the house for more than a month without a contract.
and some clauses in the contract are ridiculously non sense.
there isn't anything they need to protect or hide from other team houses! lol
seriously... it's all suspicious and weird to say the least.
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On September 13 2012 05:04 P7GAB wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:57 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/ Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or... You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house. Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good. Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here.. Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here. Poll: Is Pallad part of MoW ManagementYes (132) 72% Total sketchbag (33) 18% No (18) 10% 183 total votes Your vote: Is Pallad part of MoW Management (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(Vote): Total sketchbag
Pretty stupid post, hope you get banned for it. He obviously has trouble with english, not "sketchbag"...
On September 13 2012 05:05 ilbh wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:56 DarKFoRcE wrote:
To me it seems Destiny is pretty right here. The thing is, even if the Boss of MoW is technically right, its still comes of really badly to treat a player in the house like this. While its good to be very careful when doing business, i personally prefer to do business with people where i dont have to expect to get screwed any moment if i make a mistake.
Looking forward to the other side of the story~ this 100%. that is something Destiny is missing. yes, the boss can do whatever he wants, but he is more than a dick for doing so. if he let someone get into the house without a singed contract, he should not charge him for the month and then kick him and not return what he had paid. this is ridiculous. he is in the "legal right" to do so, but it's a really bad attitude. I won't be surprised if they are having financial problems, seems like it for such behaviour. not to mention how amateurish it is to let someone in the house for more than a month without a contract. and some clauses in the contract are ridiculously non sense. there isn't anything they need to protect or hide from other team houses! lol seriously... it's all suspicious and weird to say the least.
Actually if it goes to court and there was no signed contract while say he stayed for 1-5 or so days it should hold up that he gets his money back. You can't invite people to an establishment, take their money and because they want a lawyer to look over the documents kick them out and steal their money.
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EPT
