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Drama in MoW house. - Page 16

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Stop derailing with living cost talk

On September 13 2012 07:51 MinistryOfWin wrote:
Press Release:

http://www.ministryofwin.com/news/press-release-september-13th-2012

Stay tuned for the article on ESFIWORLD.com.

- Wednesday, Sep 12 10:51pm GMT (GMT+00:00)

On September 13 2012 08:02 MinistryOfWin wrote:
http://esfiworld.com/news/ministry-win-respond-fuzers-claims

- Wednesday, Sep 12 11:02pm GMT (GMT+00:00)
bonifaceviii
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada2890 Posts
September 12 2012 19:54 GMT
#301
Fuzer not only once, but twice paid rent in cash without getting a receipt or signing a contract.

Is this standard in Finland?
Stay a while and listen || http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=354018
Destiny
Profile Joined May 2009
United States280 Posts
September 12 2012 19:55 GMT
#302
On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/


Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or...

You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house.

Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good.

I can confirm everything Pally is saying. But then again, I only saw the contract, maybe you're more qualified to disagree ...
To achieve perfection is to sacrifice growth.
turdburgler
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
England6749 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-12 19:57:51
September 12 2012 19:55 GMT
#303
On September 13 2012 04:52 Leijona wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:43 Ippo wrote:
complaining about not having 2 hot meals a day. in what country do you eat 2 hot meals a day? finland? haha


Standard western countries, I dont know what communist country you live in though.


do you put your cereal in the oven?

On September 13 2012 04:52 Roman666 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:50 necrimanci wrote:
standard poland

Someone be so kind and report this poor excuse for a poster please.


are you saying its not standard poland? you can pm a mod if you think its worth it but i assumed it was a joke that i just didnt get
StarStruck
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
25339 Posts
September 12 2012 19:55 GMT
#304
On September 13 2012 04:48 bonifaceviii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:44 Swords wrote:
On top of this, 10 years is an insanely long time even for a business contract designed to prevent instant future competitors. Yeah, these kinds of clauses are often included, but ten years is an extremely long time. Theoretically we'll be years into Legacy of the Void by then and who knows how esports or SC2 as an esport will even be thriving. 3 years might be a reasonable request, 10 years in the world of esports is saying you'd better hope this grows bigger or as big as BW if you ever want to start a pro-house or coach in one after coming here.

These kind of clauses are in there more to scare people than to create any sort of legal obligation. If Fuzer set up a gaming house a couple of years after staying in MoW they'd have a really hard time trying to go after him for it (ie it wouldn't be worth their while to do so).


It can be a scare tactic, but I've seen many lawsuits where the old company believed the ex-employee breached the contract in terms of tampering or prying other employees away.

Yeah MoW would have a really hard time enforcing such a thing, but non-competes aren't anything new.
mememolly
Profile Joined December 2011
4765 Posts
September 12 2012 19:56 GMT
#305
On September 13 2012 04:53 Willba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.

When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.

As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.

Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange.


You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave.

This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.


However if they don't refund him the remainder of the rent it will look really bad for them and damage their reputation a lot, so I think they will have to give Fuzer his money due to community pressure.


it shouldn't take a top post on reddit to get your money back, but yeah they should give him his cash back
hypercube
Profile Joined April 2010
Hungary2735 Posts
September 12 2012 19:56 GMT
#306
On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.

When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.

As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.

Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange.


You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave.

This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.


It depends. It's still stealing, just hard to prove. I think in practice most people will rather pay back the money than lie in court. And if he admits taking the money his lawyer might just advise him to pay it back to avoid any issues.
"Sending people in rockets to other planets is a waste of money better spent on sending rockets into people on this planet."
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
September 12 2012 19:56 GMT
#307
To me it seems Destiny is pretty right here. The thing is, even if the Boss of MoW is technically right, its still comes of really badly to treat a player in the house like this. While its good to be very careful when doing business, i personally prefer to do business with people where i dont have to expect to get screwed any moment if i make a mistake.

Looking forward to the other side of the story~
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-12 19:57:23
September 12 2012 19:56 GMT
#308
On September 13 2012 04:53 Willba wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.

When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.

As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.

Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange.


You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave.

This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.


However if they don't refund him the remainder of the rent it will look really bad for them and damage their reputation a lot, so I think they will have to give Fuzer his money due to community pressure.

I think the part where Boss said about the confirmation could be a simple mouthing. Not that I approve of such behaviour, but people when angry do/say stupid things.
Canucklehead
Profile Joined March 2011
Canada5074 Posts
September 12 2012 19:57 GMT
#309
I think the biggest joke is not the 10 year thing, but them thinking running a gaming house is some super secret thing worth protecting as if they're going to be churning out bonjwas from their awesome "ideas."
Top 10 favourite pros: MKP, MVP, MC, Nestea, DRG, Jaedong, Flash, Life, Creator, Leenock
necrimanci
Profile Joined March 2011
70 Posts
September 12 2012 19:57 GMT
#310
On September 13 2012 04:52 Roman666 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:50 necrimanci wrote:
standard poland

Someone be so kind and report this poor excuse for a poster please.


uh oh. Would it change anything if id say that im from poland?
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42381 Posts
September 12 2012 19:57 GMT
#311
On September 13 2012 04:54 bonifaceviii wrote:
Fuzer not only once, but twice paid rent in cash without getting a receipt or signing a contract.

Is this standard in Finland?


Because one guy screws up, doesn't mean the whole nation does.
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
Vermiiifuuge
Profile Joined August 2012
Korea (South)112 Posts
September 12 2012 19:57 GMT
#312
On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen

You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.

Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?

Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
pallad
Profile Joined September 2010
Poland1958 Posts
September 12 2012 19:57 GMT
#313
On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/


Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or...

You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house.

Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good.


Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here..
Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here.
SC 2 -LingsLover- EU -- Jaedong , NesTea , Nerchio , DRG , Moon , Oz , Tarson , Scarlett -- Dota 2 Pallad EU- NaVi - LGD
Valmar
Profile Joined March 2011
Finland8 Posts
September 12 2012 19:57 GMT
#314
To me the worst part is that they declined to show the contract to Fuzer's lawyer. Even if the no-compete clause is legal they should have provided the copy. Denying the lawyer from seeing the contract makes me really skeptical about their true motives. Also it would be interesting to hear if Fuzer was even informed when he moved in that there would a contract like this.
VPVanek
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada238 Posts
September 12 2012 19:58 GMT
#315
I have a feeling this is going to turn into he said she said
FoXer
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
September 12 2012 19:58 GMT
#316
On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen

You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.

Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?


Then the question is - why did Fuzer's lawyer not pass MoW's requirements?

They wanted my lawyer to send some verifications that he is actually a qualified lawyer before they would send it to him.
MoW never got the stuff they wanted so they never sent it to my lawyer(It felt to me that they didn't want anyone who actually knew more about the law stuff to see contracts like this )


It'd be good to know more info on the above. Also, one other poster said that Poland law requires all contrats to be made in both Polish, and the foreigner's native language. Is this true? And did this happen?
Yargh
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
September 12 2012 19:58 GMT
#317
On September 13 2012 04:56 Roman666 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:53 Willba wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.

When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.

As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.

Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange.


You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave.

This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money.

You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.


However if they don't refund him the remainder of the rent it will look really bad for them and damage their reputation a lot, so I think they will have to give Fuzer his money due to community pressure.

I think the part where Boss said about the confirmation could be a simple mouthing. Not that I approve of such behaviour, but people when angry do/say stupid things.

Amusingly it completely obliterates any claim he might have had to an implied contract.
Roman666
Profile Joined April 2012
Poland1440 Posts
September 12 2012 19:58 GMT
#318
On September 13 2012 04:57 necrimanci wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:52 Roman666 wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:50 necrimanci wrote:
standard poland

Someone be so kind and report this poor excuse for a poster please.


uh oh. Would it change anything if id say that im from poland?

You could be even from North Pole, but it wont change a thing.
DrGreen
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland708 Posts
September 12 2012 19:58 GMT
#319
On September 13 2012 04:53 EtherealDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:43 Ippo wrote:
complaining about not having 2 hot meals a day. in what country do you eat 2 hot meals a day? finland? haha

Hmm.... 3 here in the US. More if I'm on a heavy exercising schedule.


In Poland it's usually 1-2 hot meal a day. Maybe because 15 years ago and earlier ppl couldn't afford more and it's the same ever since.
Fuzer
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Finland266 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-12 19:59:09
September 12 2012 19:59 GMT
#320
On September 13 2012 04:57 pallad wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 13 2012 04:53 nightshade85 wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:
On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/


Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or...

You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house.

Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good.


Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here..
Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here.


Sir, maybe you should read again what I wrote?
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