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On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.
When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.
As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.
Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange. You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave. This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money. You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.
^^^ This
Fuzer fucked up by moving into the house and paying upfront before even seeing / signing a contract. Obviously he went into the situation the wrong way and this is why he got fucked. He was ignornant about how to handle the situation and now he is suffering because of it. Of course the boss man is gonna take advantage of situations like this cause he probably is a dick who doesn't care about the players just the revenue he can generate from them (Just my opinon based of information provided).
This is a good lesson for everyone. Hopefully it will prevent people from making the same mistakes in the future.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36996 Posts
As far as I can see, from Fuzer's persepctive, this contract sounds incredibly sketchy. And a little devious to say the least. And Fuzer all the right in the world to request that his lawyer reviews it before he signs it
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On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.
When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.
As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.
Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange. You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave. This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money. You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.
Basically yes but there has to be some morality in this fcking world. If I am gonna ask for receipt when I am buying tobacco to prevent getting my box then fuck that kind of people. I understand that legally mow can keep money and negate any kind of verbal contract, but Fuzer is stupid if we have not some kind of chatlog's either Skype or MSN with mow "Boss".
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On September 13 2012 04:50 pallad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:47 torm3ntin wrote:On September 13 2012 04:46 Haspe wrote:
I think its stupid to speculate the case until MoW releases their statement. All we have is Fuzers one, and i personally beliveve him and support him 100% in this thing, this is so wrong in many ways. Ministry of Win, you guys better have a great explanation for this. Why you put so much weight in MoW statement? Destiny already confirmed some stuff. Other 2/3 players said the same. It's not like they can change everything upside down. What Destiny confirmed.. ? that Fuzer is wrong.. ? And there is nothing abouth " you cant go to other house" , but there is " you cant make own house and coach people" What else he confirmed? I miss something ?
Boss, just stop now you keep showing us your true identity!!!
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On September 13 2012 04:46 S_SienZ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:44 Zorkmid wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Diamond wrote:On September 13 2012 04:34 Zorkmid wrote:
Also, there's nothing standard about a non-competition clause with a timeline exceeding the length of the contract. Assuming a player lived in the house for a year, a non-competition clause cannot extend beyond that year. It's something put it to prevent people from breaking contracts and going to a competitor DURING their contract, not after it. I think this whole situation sucks but just wanted to point out that you obviously know nothing about non-compete clauses, MANY do exist after the length of the contract, it's a pretty regular thing. Show me one. Can't show you an exact one, but an example would be in the software development industry. When you leave a firm there's usually a clause preventing you from competing with them for about 1-2 years. 10 years seems a bit disproportionate imo esp for eSports.
You actually GET PAID for working in the software development industry, this isnt a job, this is a training house, 10 years, especially for their apparently completely amateurish training methods, they seem to just leave the players be and cook, 10 years is insane, SC2 will be dying then, many players could have the opportunity to turn into coaches if they fall in skill or practice time, and training houses are a solid future esport option for pros, that, the cash paiements without contract, refusal of contacting a lawyer, basically scaming money and then when made public trying to give it (thats just mafia method rofl, Oh ok ok here's your money), I mean, this idiotic boss, if this is all true, is risking the entire reputation of MoW for basically stealing 500 euros. How dumb is that, again, if true
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Everything is this seems very fishy.
The rent of 600 euros in a gaming house + the share of stream revenue?
600 euros is waay to much, considering the house is in poland.
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On September 13 2012 04:43 Ippo wrote:
complaining about not having 2 hot meals a day. in what country do you eat 2 hot meals a day? finland? haha
Standard western countries, I dont know what communist country you live in though.
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On September 13 2012 04:50 necrimanci wrote:
standard poland
Someone be so kind and report this poor excuse for a poster please.
User was warned for this post
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On September 13 2012 04:49 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:44 Zorkmid wrote:On September 13 2012 04:41 Diamond wrote:On September 13 2012 04:34 Zorkmid wrote:
Also, there's nothing standard about a non-competition clause with a timeline exceeding the length of the contract. Assuming a player lived in the house for a year, a non-competition clause cannot extend beyond that year. It's something put it to prevent people from breaking contracts and going to a competitor DURING their contract, not after it. I think this whole situation sucks but just wanted to point out that you obviously know nothing about non-compete clauses, MANY do exist after the length of the contract, it's a pretty regular thing. Show me one. It's applied to every business. Everything I can think of. If they let you go or you decide to resign. It's normal to have a non-compete clause in order to protect the business, but ten years is kind of ridiculous. Usually it's six months to a year.
It really depends on the industry. Tech industries can be particularly long with their non-competes (I've got one up to 15 with a specific company and a specific product due to the ease of reproduction and the length of product life), other industries tend to be less.
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That's really, really fishy. Why would MoW pressure someone into signing like that after learning that a lawyer will be reviewing the contract?
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On September 13 2012 04:50 DGB.Zerok wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.
When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.
As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.
Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange. You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave. This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money. You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt. Basically yes but there has to be some morality in this fcking world. If I am gonna ask for receipt when I am buying tobacco to prevent getting my box then fuck that kind of people. I understand that legally mow can keep money and negate any kind of verbal contract, but Fuzer is stupid if we have not some kind of chatlog's either Skype or MSN with mow "Boss".
Morality is fine for school and church, but please don't ever expose yourself in the financial world expecting others to ask "decent". You'll wind up fucked 7 ways to Sunday.
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Please provide a copy of the contract.
It sounds really terrible.
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whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
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so if you stayed in the house you can't make a team house for 10 years? what if you decided to be a coach or even make your own team?
what a joke! everything from MoW is ridiculously unprofessional and shady at the same time.
wtf are these clauses...
and letting someone get into the house without a signed contract and then not returning his money! LOL
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On September 13 2012 04:43 Ippo wrote:
complaining about not having 2 hot meals a day. in what country do you eat 2 hot meals a day? finland? haha
Hmm.... 3 here in the US. More if I'm on a heavy exercising schedule.
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On September 13 2012 04:52 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Please provide a copy of the contract.
It sounds really terrible.
If I would have the copy, I would have shown it to my lawyer?
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On September 13 2012 04:44 pallad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote:
Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/ Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or... You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house.
Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good.
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On September 13 2012 04:44 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:20 Mackus wrote:On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote:
The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.
When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.
As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.
Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange. You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave. This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money. You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.
However if they don't refund him the remainder of the rent it will look really bad for them and damage their reputation a lot, so I think they will have to give Fuzer his money due to community pressure.
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On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
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On September 13 2012 04:38 gwixter wrote:
tbh this is quite good example of miscommunication, nothing else
Or severe lack of communication, yeah. It's monumentally stupid to only confront players with this when they're already there. It makes it seem like you're trying to sucker them into something. All these terms should've been clearly passed on way ahead of time.
Honestly first off, a no-compete clause isn't uncommon, it's just a really poor implementation of one. 10 years is moronic and it should never be limiting you as a player wanting to join an existing house, they can't stop you from picking other gamers as roommates making this completely unenforceable (though I don't know the specifics in Polish law by any means). What they should be going for is a 2-3 year term and a clear clause that if you use ideas/concepts from the MoW house or that you came up with during your stay at the MoW house, you can't use them elsewhere or you'll have to pay them. Hell, some people I've casted for have asked me to sign those.
Furthermore the streaming hours sound quite excessive, but eh.
Lastly, there should be an option to end the contract (including the no-compete clause!) immediately if the conditions at the MoW house are unacceptable. For example no proper food, getting woken up at all hours or just not living up to their end of the contract.
All those things are just good business for both sides. When it comes to the money, Fuzer didn't sign a contract, so he's not obligated to pay anything and a refund is in order. There might be an issue with the NDA, in practice, they're often scare tactics and don't hold up, but we can't really state anything either way. Potentially the NDA could cost Fuzer some if it's actually enforceable.
On September 13 2012 04:54 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote:
whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing. Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
That's bullshit. He also asked for them to send the contract to him so he could send it to his lawyer himself. At that point it's his problem to make sure he doesn't break the NDA. There's legitimate problems with the way MoW handled things and you of all people should probably be staying out of it rather than try to cover anything up.
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EPT
