On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance.
>quite aware this is the way of the (business) world.
>thinks NDA's are fishy
Pick 1, buddy.
I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other.
Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro.
Please tell me which part of the business world you work in where NDA's do not exist.
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
So why do you say stuff like: "As for the 'not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years,' that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years." ? Apparently you only have access to your own contract, therefore (following your logic) you dont know shit what's in Fuzer's contract. Take your own fucking advice.
There's no reason for them to change that NCC part of the contract. The only thing in the contract that will vary from player to player will be exact $$$ amounts and maybe length of stay. For them to randomly insert clauses in some contracts defies reason.
Just because you think there's no reasons for them to change it, doesnt mean they haven't.
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance.
>quite aware this is the way of the (business) world.
>thinks NDA's are fishy
Pick 1, buddy.
I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other.
Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro.
He was quite right to assume your ignorance, judging by your post. And anyone well educated in business would say in the vast majority of situations they are mutually exclusive. Even insinuating that it's "sketchy" is utterly ridiculous and shows your unfamiliarity with the topic matter.
Nice do it!! I'm already on my 4th one, from separate emails!!
Are you serious? The idiots that jump on these fucking "e-mail the sponsors" crusades BEFORE the other side even releases an official statement are the epitome of stupidly impulsive.
I don't see the part about streaming being an issue so there's no right to complain about it but the rest seems kind of hinky so I would probably advise others against going there if that's truly what is going on.
On September 13 2012 05:06 sVnteen wrote: oh ret I hope you didn't sign the same contract...
I don't think Jos plans on starting his own house anytime soon, so I'm sure he's fine with it.
well he might want to go to korea to the TL house (fuzer says that he wouldn't even have been allowed to join a house as a player) and even if he wouldn't want to join another team house he might want to be a coach for a liquid teamhouse or something in some years ...
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance.
>quite aware this is the way of the (business) world.
>thinks NDA's are fishy
Pick 1, buddy.
I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other.
Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro.
Please tell me which part of the business world you work in where NDA's do not exist.
I dont work, I'm an unemployed nolife SC2 addict, but please enlighten me what that has to do with anything?
All of this what you are complaining about, was said already in the announcement of MoW. Looks like everyone but you know the terms. Those rules you are complaining about, are stupid in my opinion, but still they were announced to everyone in the first post about MoW.
On September 13 2012 04:15 Destiny wrote: The Boss guy looks like kind of a dick here, but honestly, a contract is a contract.
When I was first contacted by MoW, my very first action was to request a contract and read through all of the fine terms.
As for the "not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years," that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years. It's kind of strange, maybe, for the e-sports world, but that's a pretty standard non-competition clause from the business world. It's meant to protect businesses from revealing practices to an employee and then having that employee run off to start their own business to compete using everything they learned from that previous business. Not saying it's right or wrong in this circumstance, just giving some background.
Yeah, there are some other clauses. Financial compensation they want, minimum number of stream hours, etc...etc...But to complain about all of these after the fact..? I can't understand why anyone would move to a house and not read the contract first, seems kind of strange.
You're missing the important part where he's paid a months rent without signing a contract and has been asked to leave.
This is going to sound incredibly dickish, and it definitely doesn't excuse MoW from acting dickish, but there's nothing to keep them from keeping the money.
You never, ever, ever, ever, ever give someone money without signing a contract first or at least asking for a receipt.
Basically yes but there has to be some morality in this fcking world. If I am gonna ask for receipt when I am buying tobacco to prevent getting my box then fuck that kind of people. I understand that legally mow can keep money and negate any kind of verbal contract, but Fuzer is stupid if we have not some kind of chatlog's either Skype or MSN with mow "Boss".
Morality is fine for school and church, but please don't ever expose yourself in the financial world expecting others to ask "decent". You'll wind up fucked 7 ways to Sunday.
I understand you. But I am a attorney at law myself so I learnt about moral 4 freacking years. I didn't said this is something weird or unusual, but the way you are justifying this "legal fraud" is funny. Morality is very important for self-improvement, interhuman relationship and so on. Thats why I said fuck this ugly world, not because I am some kind of a cliche guy, but many people here think this is very non standard. I cant express because my english is not really good This is very retarded situation, but nothing non common.
On September 13 2012 04:41 Xcobidoo wrote: Wait so if Ret has signed, then he can't go to any liquidhouse etc.? Ouch :/
Fuzer make mistake in post , dont knowing that or...
You can go to another house.., YOU CANT OPEN OWN house and coach people there. This is in conbtract , not that you cant go to another house.
Are you sure you're not a part of the MoW management? You're acting awfully hysterical considering the situation. You said it yourself: We will know as soon as MoW release their statement. Why defend every comment made about the situation? Fuzers intent was good.
Becase what fuzer write is not true.. ? and i defend the true ? ( dont know abouth rest of the post , but 10 years thing , that you cant join another house is not true ) , you got some problems with true or what ? , i was thinking that everyone wanna true here.. Im not posting abouth rest of Fuzers post , i post only abouth that what he read wrong and then write here.
he got it slightly wrong but it's understandable when english isn't his first language, chill out, you obviously have a vested interest here
True i have some.. because i care for polish e-sport , like i think everyone hwo is interested in e-sports will do for own country. They put a lot of work to make this house working , eveyone who was in the house ( snute , cyto etc ) say it was superb and very profesional and they are happy that they go to Poland , everyone who is in house now say the same Sage , Ret Wilko , all say everything is ok..
But like i write before it all this what Fuzer write is true im goona go to MoW house and kick boss ass for real , for fucking this up. But if this is not true ... then polish e-sport will suffer for nothing.. because of one player..then it not good and fair.
it's not about polish esports, it's about MoW and that's it. and stop saying that fuzer is lying, there is no reason for him to do that and you don't have anything to prove against him.
Gaming house with players from all over to world.. is e-sport for me..
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
So why do you say stuff like: "As for the 'not allowed to stay at another house in 10 years,' that's not true, you're just not allowed to start your own team house in 10 years." ? Apparently you only have access to your own contract, therefore (following your logic) you dont know shit what's in Fuzer's contract. Take your own fucking advice.
There's no reason for them to change that NCC part of the contract. The only thing in the contract that will vary from player to player will be exact $$$ amounts and maybe length of stay. For them to randomly insert clauses in some contracts defies reason.
Just because you think there's no reasons for them to change it, doesnt mean they haven't.
What if we're all living in a dream that we just can't wake up from...
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance.
>quite aware this is the way of the (business) world.
>thinks NDA's are fishy
Pick 1, buddy.
I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other.
Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro.
Please tell me which part of the business world you work in where NDA's do not exist.
I dont work, I'm an unemployed nolife SC2 addict, but please enlighten me what that has to do with anything?
On September 13 2012 05:06 sVnteen wrote: oh ret I hope you didn't sign the same contract...
I don't think Jos plans on starting his own house anytime soon, so I'm sure he's fine with it.
well he might want to go to korea to the TL house (fuzer says that he wouldn't even have been allowed to join a house as a player) and even if he wouldn't want to join another team house he might want to be a coach for a liquid teamhouse or something in some years ...
Someone really needs to put destinys post at the top of the thread. For the 50th time: The clause is not about going to another team house, its a non-compete against running your own team house.
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance.
>quite aware this is the way of the (business) world.
>thinks NDA's are fishy
Pick 1, buddy.
I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other.
Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro.
He was quite right to assume your ignorance, judging by your post. And anyone well educated in business would say in the vast majority of situations they are mutually exclusive. Even insinuating that it's "sketchy" is utterly ridiculous and shows your unfamiliarity with the topic matter.
Sounds like your definition of fishy is different than mine. Doesnt really justify your insinuations, though.
On September 13 2012 04:52 kliu wrote: whats wrong with a second pair of eyes looking at a contract? seems like MoW didn't want that second look to happen
You sign an NDA to see the contract. You can't just send it off to random people, there needs to be evidence that someone is working as a legal counsel to the party you're contracting. It's not just a "oh trust me he's my lawyer" kind of thing.
Jesus, I understand how much we all love to get in on the drama and what not, but if you don't have at least the basic semblance of business sense why even bother posting in this thread?
Yeah, having to sign an NDA to see the contract seems very legit and doesnt scream "something fishy's going on" at all!
"Something fishy's going", you have absolutely no fucking idea what you're talking about. The fuck are you, some 18 year old frosh in college who thinks he knows everything about the business world?
Ten people want to go to the MoW. Two of them are big names. When negotiating all of the contracts, the house wants to find a way to keep everyone happy but also to keep itself sustained, financially. I know how much you all BLEED E-SPORTS but money is kind of fucking important, the real world doesn't run on HOPES AND DREAMS AND RAINBOWS.
If there were no NDAs to negotiate contracts, the two big name players see that they have to pay a bit more to stay at the house than the smaller players. Now all of a sudden they feel ripped off, and they don't want to go because they feel like they're subsidizing the existence of everyone else there. Now they pull out and the 8 smaller names all have to pay a larger share than they can afford, etc...etc...
Or take teams for instance. You don't think there's an NDA attached to every single contract that a player signs? What if Stephano was being negotiated with and he thought he was worth 2X as much as HuK, and he was able to read HuK's contract exactly. EG now has no ability to negotiate with him.
etc...etc...etc...
There are reasons NDA's and NCC's exist in the business world, and it's not that "something fishy HURR DURR" is going on. It's because people want to protect their financial interests and their ability to operate as a business.
I am quite aware this is the way of the (business) world. But thanks for assuming my ignorance.
>quite aware this is the way of the (business) world.
>thinks NDA's are fishy
Pick 1, buddy.
I dont need to. One doesnt exclude the other.
Edit: and please refrain from calling me buddy, bro.
Please tell me which part of the business world you work in where NDA's do not exist.
I dont work, I'm an unemployed nolife SC2 addict, but please enlighten me what that has to do with anything?
On September 13 2012 05:06 sVnteen wrote: oh ret I hope you didn't sign the same contract...
I don't think Jos plans on starting his own house anytime soon, so I'm sure he's fine with it.
well he might want to go to korea to the TL house (fuzer says that he wouldn't even have been allowed to join a house as a player) and even if he wouldn't want to join another team house he might want to be a coach for a liquid teamhouse or something in some years ...
I said that I think that the words they used they could basically deny you from joining..
Criminal is a bit far fetched, let's not make this another silly witchhunt because people are bored.
I'm sorry but what? He tried to steal the teams' money that was put up to organise the tournament. That's borderline criminal, no matter what way you look at it
EPT
This is very retarded situation, but nothing non common.
