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Hello everyone! This is xSPopTart here. This is my first post on Team Liquid so please bear with me.
To start off i would like to tell you super fast about my starcraft career. I started only playing 1v1's but two seasons ago i went heavily into team games. I finished up last season rank 3 in the world in 3v3 random with a 90 percent win loss ratio. My 4's were very similar ranking 4th world wide i think.
When you get high enough ranked you start to experience longer queue times. Some of you may have seen this before.
Here is a quick picture of one my MY queues I did with some people I met on starcraft.
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/zXd5w.jpg) as you can see that is nearly an hour long queue. For most of the games i played before I started to smurf i would wait at least 20 minutes for a score-screen like this: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/c2ouX.png) As you can see, i waited about 20 minutes for eight points. That's not very fun.
If your que time is so long, why don't you just Que alone?
+ Show Spoiler +I actually tried that just to see what would happen. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AVqZ9.png) As you can see,I got a 30 minutes queue before i canceled which i believe is way too long.
Solution to the problem:
+ Show Spoiler +Yes! There is an answer! If I play with my high ranked friends, it's a long queue. If i play by myself, It's a long queue. So, WHAT IF I play with a low ranked player to counter out my MMR? Yes it does work. The only problem is that you have to have a good player on a bronze or silver account to "smurf" for you. Below are some pictures of doing this. I played with one of my friends while he was on a silver account. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TTatP.jpg) As you can tell, Everyone is still top masters, all this did was lower the queue time. Next idea was, what if i play with a bronze player. Would that make my opponents easier? ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pKKFm.jpg) For this game, no. Even with a bronze player all players were still top masters. I will admit though; sometimes players will be plat through mid masters depending on how LOW the bronze players account is, and and HIGH your account is.
What's the big deal?
The big deal is that sometimes, players who are NOT very skilled can "smurf" so that they are playing easier players while still getting very high masters.
Here is my example person:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/J6SHj.png)
Notice how he jumps from low plat to FIRST in masters. This isn't just for his league either. This is top five in the world easy. Now isnt this possible? I mean, lets assume he plays LOTS of 1v1's so he has skill, but he just started playing team games. He plays with really good players and he really really excels in it. That's fine, but that is not the case. For his case this is a combination of maphacks + abusing the ladder system. Thing are about to get pretty crazy so listen carefully.
HOW TO GET TOP 8 MASTERS IN 1'S 2'S 3'S OR 4'S:
+ Show Spoiler +I want you to look at the next few pictures and tell me what YOU think. 1v1s: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Gah9a.png) 2v2s: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qbnGO.png) notice how he jumps from plat to masters. (in 1v1's, he went from plat to low masters. either someone leveled the account or the map hacks, normal people cant get from plat to masters in just one season) Again its either low masters, or plat, to TOP eight masters? How did he do that? I'll show you. Keep paying attention. Take a closer look at his 1v1s and his 2v2s. 1v1's: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mfN9S.png) 2v2's: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/i8FlM.png) Get it now? He does his 1 placement match on the last day of the season to get placed into a brand new division. From there he has to win MAYBE 4 games to get top 8. This doesn't seem 100% fair to me. When you look at any normal division you should need several hundred points to get top 8, not just 2 or 3.
THE SOLUTIONS:
Yes, solutions. There are two of them. One for the outrageous queue times. The other for getting top eight masters ezpz style.
queue times:
+ Show Spoiler +Cap off MMR. If you cap off the MMR at a certain point, (For this example I am going to be using MMR in a point scale. 0 is as low as you can be in bronze, 2000 will be as high as you can be in masters.) If you cap off at the 2000 point mark, you will still play good top masters players without a 20+ minute wait or being favored every game. Obviously it will cap off at a very high level. High enough that it is hard to reach but so you can still find other players. At its current state, your MMR gets so high you're favored every game. So when you win, you get 5 points, when you lose, you lose 20.
Top masters:
+ Show Spoiler +My idea is to make it so you may not be placed into divisions after the leagues lock. This will make it so the last week of the new season you won't be placed into a fresh division where you can win one game and get top 8. Obviously this will only apply to random teams because blizzard has already fixed the glitch with teams. Before the patch you could get with 3 people, do 5 placements and get placed in 4v4 masters. ( same concept with fresh division.) Now the highest you can be placed is diamond so you will have to rightfully work for your top 8 masters.
Thank you for your time. Please think this over and reply with your ideas.
-xSPopTart signing out.
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being top 8/25/whatever is entirely meaningless and doesn't affect your mmr at all so
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i thought i was the only one to figure it out :D but yeah position in league says nothing, points/mmr is what matters
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top 8,25,50 means something. top 8 indicates that you're at least half decent relative to your location in masters. people who are mediocre wouldn;t get there in a lifetime.
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That's why those of us who care go by points, or use sc2ranks.com.
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You're entirely right but sadly nobody (including blizz) gives a shit since you're talking about team games.
I personally am having a really hard time getting promoted in team games despite the fact that I am vastly better than my opponents and my ally/allies. It really sucks for you though that you have those crazy que times for short games. The best way to fix that would be to have more high level team game players but it seems that most high level players prefer 1v1s.
Maybe it could also help if you got a kr server account since the players are (much) better on that server?
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Wait i must be dumb or something but if someone waits til the end of the season and just play 4 placement matches they get into top8 masters in a new division? Like even if u were platinum before u can get placed in masters at the end of the season doing this?
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so basically ur message is that
u pay 60 dollars for sc2.
then, u dont play it except for a few games on the last day of the season.
good investment right there.
User was warned for this post
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On September 12 2012 11:25 triforks wrote:
so basically ur message is that
u pay 60 dollars for sc2.
then, u dont play it except for a few games on the last day of the season.
good investment right there.
Yes, that's the only thing he's trying to say.
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wow, you figured how to smurf and how to get meaningless rankings. This was one of the more obnoxious and irritating posts ive read in a very long time.
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Thanks for your support guys and reading this. I really appreciate it. Thanks maxd11 as well.
@SilSol no. I am sorry. What it means is that if you get placed in MASTERS you can come into a brand new MASTERS league and be top 8. Now if your plat and wait to the very end of the season, then you could be placed in a brand new PLAT division and get top 8 plat pretty easy.
@triforks Yes, it would appear so. Many players actually spend 120 dollars on starcraft so on one account, they can have fun on, and the other account they can get top masters every season and look good.
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I believe I went from Gold League to Masters in 1 season.
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I did this unintentionally this last season. Started off in gold 4v4 and played a ton going in by myself out of boredom and got placed into a fresh Master division being by far #1 because I accumulated so many points. I let it go though.
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Hm not the kind of abuse I was expecting haha.. Interesting insight.
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1. this won't happen with the new ladder system they implemented this season (rank is based on actual lvl in ur skill range, ie diamond, masters, w.e...rank 1 is top 1%)
2. Rank meant (past tense) nothing...if you were top8 masters with less than 1k pts (in 1v1)..that person still isn't very good, no offense...and people can see you're points and w/l so whats the big deal here?
Welcome to TL though
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okay so he maphacks
if you maphack and have modest mechanics/game sense you should be able to blind counter most builds, especially in zvz where you should be able to bat pretty close to 100% wr with maphacks
so basically you maphack your way to masters rating then don't play any games so you don't rank up or down
i hardly see how this qualifies as abuse
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On September 12 2012 11:30 Insomni7 wrote:
wow, you figured how to smurf and how to get meaningless rankings. This was one of the more obnoxious and irritating posts ive read in a very long time.
no, i disagee. Im glad people post stuff like this, a flawed ladder system is flawed, the more people that know about the abuse, the more inclined blizzard is to act.
There is a whole bunch of different problems i have with team games as well. There are alot more abuses that just turn me off completely from the team games.
A)
Partial arrange team Queing in Random team ladders and getting ranked on random team ladder. You look at any random team ladder player that has a somewhat decent / good record at masters and you will always see them playing with the same people all the time +1 randomly given ally. All the best records is from pre-team abuse. Blizzard has stuff in to compensate for a full arrange team vs random team to even up the matchup, but with partial arrange team there is nothing in place. Random team ladder is basically a meaningless ladder right now and its better off being called an Arrange team ladder because thats what it is, if you want to get to the top of Random team ladder with a somewhat good record you gotta play with friends. Its pretty easy for 3 good players to accept 1 bad player in 4v4 rt or 3v3 rt and do strong cheeses to easily take out the 4 completely random team players. Abuse = abuse. Hate the fact random team ladder isnt a true random team ladder. It removes the whole point of playing random team ladder completely. If i wanted to play arrange team ladder i'd play arrange team ladder, you know with friends? Why must i be forced to play with friends to compete on random team ladder? LAWL stupid blizzard and their ideas..
B)
outside of 2v2, the maps are really bad. They piegon hole you into certain builds all the time, really big ramps, separated bases.... All they do is promote heavy heavy cheese, Its a dual zerg 8-10 pool playground with ramps that big. Lets say for instance you play terran in 4v4 rt, how the fuck do you defend your allys on the other side of the map against dual 10 pools? . YOu can do a fast gas to reactor hellion, but if the 10 pools hit your side instead, your dead because you wont have it out in time. So really terran is forced into 2 rax marine everygame and pulling scvs. Most of the time your ally die and your just fighting a downhill battle from the get go. Bascially the balance is so bad its pointless to even play
C) 1v1 is where its at , blizzard knows this and thats all they care about.
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You spent a long time researching things, preparing screenshots and writing. Yet you didn't look up the correct spelling of "queue". You could be saying brilliant things about starcraft, I don't know. Because i instantly started skimming your posts once you lost your credibility.
Life is in the details man.
User was warned for this post
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I don't see how the last day master is a big deal. It doesn't harm anyone, does it? I feel that it is like people finding some abuse to get the single player achievements... Are you afraid that your "true" top 8 master will have it's value inflated? Why not just brag in terms of points or sc2ranks instead, which is more accurate as pointed out earlier?
I agree that the queue time shouldn't be that long though, and I thought they already had capped it, but maybe I am wrong, or maybe that was only for 1on1... It should be easy to fix even without a cap imo, like expand the width of the players MMR range as queue time grows. Or even start with a wider range if you are far up in MMR. Or give diminishing return for very high MMR (so some kind of soft cap). But I agree that queue times that long are not really acceptable, and it shouldn't be hard to fix. Also nice little fix with adding in the silver league guy. 
Thanks for writeup though.
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I hereby nominate OP for the "most oblivious starcraft 2 player" award.
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MMr is not caped at the end.
In fact there are guys with 3k +
And you did not awnser the question nr.1
Why would you do all this?
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A)
Partial arrange team Queing in Random team ladders and getting ranked on random team ladder. You look at any random team ladder player that has a somewhat decent / good record at masters and you will always see them playing with the same people all the time +1 randomly given ally. All the best records is from pre-team abuse. Blizzard has stuff in to compensate for a full arrange team vs random team to even up the matchup, but with partial arrange team there is nothing in place. Random team ladder is basically a meaningless ladder right now and its better off being called an Arrange team ladder because thats what it is, if you want to get to the top of Random team ladder with a somewhat good record you gotta play with friends. Its pretty easy for 3 good players to accept 1 bad player in 4v4 rt or 3v3 rt and do strong cheeses to easily take out the 4 completely random team players. Abuse = abuse. Hate the fact random team ladder isnt a true random team ladder. It removes the whole point of playing random team ladder completely. If i wanted to play arrange team ladder i'd play arrange team ladder, you know with friends? Why must i be forced to play with friends to compete on random team ladder? LAWL stupid blizzard and their ideas..
B)
outside of 2v2, the maps are really bad. They piegon hole you into certain builds all the time, really big ramps, separated bases.... All they do is promote heavy heavy cheese, Its a dual zerg 8-10 pool playground with ramps that big. Lets say for instance you play terran in 4v4 rt, how the fuck do you defend your allys on the other side of the map against dual 10 pools? . YOu can do a fast gas to reactor hellion, but if the 10 pools hit your side instead, your dead because you wont have it out in time. So really terran is forced into 2 rax marine everygame and pulling scvs. Most of the time your ally die and your just fighting a downhill battle from the get go. Bascially the balance is so bad its pointless to even play
C) 1v1 is where its at , blizzard knows this and thats all they care about.
This^ is perfect. That is 100 percent true. I myself am guilty of queuing with people. It's not truly random. Blizzard does know 1v1 is where its at. Thanks for this Johny123.
To everyone: I am REALLY sorry about the queue mix-up. I KNEW I was doing something wrong. I think i have corrected all of them. Thanks for noticing.
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Well of course, the longer you delay placing, the more likely you'll be put into a division with the most players who are the least active. Though for those who are low masters level who want to get top 8, you'll get a decent chance by simply waiting 1 week before placing.
I hadn't considered something so extreme (relatively) as waiting til the end of the season first though, haha.
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Yet another reason why 2s/3s/4s isn't taken seriously haha
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On September 12 2012 11:49 Kashll wrote:
You spent a long time researching things, preparing screenshots and writing. Yet you didn't look up the correct spelling of "queue". You could be saying brilliant things about starcraft, I don't know. Because i instantly started skimming your posts once you lost your credibility.
Life is in the details man.
Yeah, and you could have said something that added to the discussion instead you just criticized someones spelling on the internet. Not just any place on the internet, a place where a lot of non native English speakers come to discuss things. You should try being nice and considerate instead of a grumpy gramps.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get out of your statement though.
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On September 12 2012 11:54 CCalms wrote:
I hereby nominate OP for the "most oblivious starcraft 2 player" award.
I second this! Take it to a vote!
edit: + Show Spoiler +no hard feelings OP, it was a well-constructed and informative post. and I'm glad for that. at the same time, lol who cares. ^^
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So your saying that you deflated your teams MMR by having an account on your team with a low MMR. Yeah you find matches quicker but you also face opponts with less MMR then should. Thats why your win ratio is so high. Your cheating the system imo. Which means your top "3" is really all show. Sure you might be good, but from what your saying you didnt earn it.
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They changed the ladder system this new season.
It used to be that even if you're top 8 in your division, it didn't actually mean that you were high masters or even "top" of the low master players because of all the different divisions.
Now they have it that if you're say top 8 in your division, you're top 8% of whatever rank you are. I doubt he'll still be able to do this.
http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7157308/Season_8_Now_Locked_and_Big_Changes_Coming_Next_Season-9_6_2012
Ladder Tier Removal
Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different “tiers”, and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it difficult to determine your next promotion. For example, if you’re in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we’re removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4. The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they’re at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth.
So he never actually made "top" of any league but only a useless division which in my eyes, is nothing to brag about.
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On September 12 2012 11:49 Kashll wrote:
You spent a long time researching things, preparing screenshots and writing. Yet you didn't look up the correct spelling of "queue". You could be saying brilliant things about starcraft, I don't know. Because i instantly started skimming your posts once you lost your credibility.
Life is in the details man.
You've instantly lost your credibility with this useless post correcting someones grammar and scolding/judging them for it.
As for the exploit here, people seem to always be able to find a new way to cheat the system. If it really makes them feel better about themselves, then it's rather pathetic anyway.
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On September 12 2012 11:09 MicroTastiC wrote:
top 8,25,50 means something. top 8 indicates that you're at least half decent relative to your location in masters. people who are mediocre wouldn;t get there in a lifetime.
Actually there are plenty of mediocre players in GM sooo... yeah.
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On September 12 2012 11:48 johnny123 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 11:30 Insomni7 wrote:
wow, you figured how to smurf and how to get meaningless rankings. This was one of the more obnoxious and irritating posts ive read in a very long time. no, i disagee. Im glad people post stuff like this, a flawed ladder system is flawed, the more people that know about the abuse, the more inclined blizzard is to act. There is a whole bunch of different problems i have with team games as well. There are alot more abuses that just turn me off completely from the team games. A) Partial arrange team Queing in Random team ladders and getting ranked on random team ladder. You look at any random team ladder player that has a somewhat decent / good record at masters and you will always see them playing with the same people all the time +1 randomly given ally. All the best records is from pre-team abuse. Blizzard has stuff in to compensate for a full arrange team vs random team to even up the matchup, but with partial arrange team there is nothing in place. Random team ladder is basically a meaningless ladder right now and its better off being called an Arrange team ladder because thats what it is, if you want to get to the top of Random team ladder with a somewhat good record you gotta play with friends. Its pretty easy for 3 good players to accept 1 bad player in 4v4 rt or 3v3 rt and do strong cheeses to easily take out the 4 completely random team players. Abuse = abuse. Hate the fact random team ladder isnt a true random team ladder. It removes the whole point of playing random team ladder completely. If i wanted to play arrange team ladder i'd play arrange team ladder, you know with friends? Why must i be forced to play with friends to compete on random team ladder? LAWL stupid blizzard and their ideas.. B) outside of 2v2, the maps are really bad. They piegon hole you into certain builds all the time, really big ramps, separated bases.... All they do is promote heavy heavy cheese, Its a dual zerg 8-10 pool playground with ramps that big. Lets say for instance you play terran in 4v4 rt, how the fuck do you defend your allys on the other side of the map against dual 10 pools? . YOu can do a fast gas to reactor hellion, but if the 10 pools hit your side instead, your dead because you wont have it out in time. So really terran is forced into 2 rax marine everygame and pulling scvs. Most of the time your ally die and your just fighting a downhill battle from the get go. Bascially the balance is so bad its pointless to even play C) 1v1 is where its at , blizzard knows this and thats all they care about.
Well said, except I disagree witht he "outside of 2v2 part." 2v2 Maps are really bad too  .
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On September 12 2012 12:30 nakedsurfer wrote:They changed the ladder system this new season. It used to be that even if you're top 8 in your division, it didn't actually mean that you were high masters or even "top" of the low master players because of all the different divisions. Now they have it that if you're say top 8 in your division, you're top 8% of whatever rank you are. I doubt he'll still be able to do this. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7157308/Season_8_Now_Locked_and_Big_Changes_Coming_Next_Season-9_6_2012Show nested quote +Ladder Tier Removal
Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different “tiers”, and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it difficult to determine your next promotion. For example, if you’re in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we’re removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4. The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they’re at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth. So he never actually made "top" of any league but only a useless division which in my eyes, is nothing to brag about.
that's not what it means
it means that the invisible bonus points you got for being in a certain tier division dont' exist anymore, bronze-diamond work the same way as masters does now
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Bahaha I was expecting some retarded "get top 8 masters by doing this strategy / this training regiment" or something like that. At least you have a legitimate "exploit" in obtaining it.
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On September 12 2012 12:30 nakedsurfer wrote:They changed the ladder system this new season. It used to be that even if you're top 8 in your division, it didn't actually mean that you were high masters or even "top" of the low master players because of all the different divisions. Now they have it that if you're say top 8 in your division, you're top 8% of whatever rank you are. I doubt he'll still be able to do this. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/7157308/Season_8_Now_Locked_and_Big_Changes_Coming_Next_Season-9_6_2012Show nested quote +Ladder Tier Removal
Currently not all divisions within a League are created equal. Individual divisions are actually assigned to different “tiers”, and players are assigned to tiers based on skill. This system hasn't been very transparent, making it difficult to determine your next promotion. For example, if you’re in a lower tiered Diamond division, just getting to Rank 1 doesn’t necessarily mean you’ll see a promotion soon.
With the goal of increasing transparency for ladder players, we’re removing tiers from the ladder with the commencement of 2012 Season 4. The removal of tiers from all leagues will allow players to better gauge exactly where they’re at on the ladder and how far away they are from the next league.
After this change, climbing to (for example) Rank 2 Diamond will mean that you are in the top 2% of all Diamond players, and you are very close to moving into the Master League. Similarly, Rank 50 Platinum is in the top 50% in the Platinum league, and so forth. So he never actually made "top" of any league but only a useless division which in my eyes, is nothing to brag about.
It did for masters. Only Bronze - Diamond had that shitty random ass tier system. Masters didn't have it - it was always percentile.
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This is a really good trick to get the achievements for top 8 masters 1v1 or team games.
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On September 12 2012 14:56 wptlzkwjd wrote:
This is a really good trick to get the achievements for top 8 masters 1v1 or team games.
Well, at least we know blizz's policy of removing the losses and adding meaningless achivements to cater to the casuals worked.
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On September 12 2012 11:48 johnny123 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 11:30 Insomni7 wrote:
wow, you figured how to smurf and how to get meaningless rankings. This was one of the more obnoxious and irritating posts ive read in a very long time. no, i disagee. Im glad people post stuff like this, a flawed ladder system is flawed, the more people that know about the abuse, the more inclined blizzard is to act. There is a whole bunch of different problems i have with team games as well. There are alot more abuses that just turn me off completely from the team games. A) Partial arrange team Queing in Random team ladders and getting ranked on random team ladder. You look at any random team ladder player that has a somewhat decent / good record at masters and you will always see them playing with the same people all the time +1 randomly given ally. All the best records is from pre-team abuse. Blizzard has stuff in to compensate for a full arrange team vs random team to even up the matchup, but with partial arrange team there is nothing in place. Random team ladder is basically a meaningless ladder right now and its better off being called an Arrange team ladder because thats what it is, if you want to get to the top of Random team ladder with a somewhat good record you gotta play with friends. Its pretty easy for 3 good players to accept 1 bad player in 4v4 rt or 3v3 rt and do strong cheeses to easily take out the 4 completely random team players. Abuse = abuse. Hate the fact random team ladder isnt a true random team ladder. It removes the whole point of playing random team ladder completely. If i wanted to play arrange team ladder i'd play arrange team ladder, you know with friends? Why must i be forced to play with friends to compete on random team ladder? LAWL stupid blizzard and their ideas.. B) outside of 2v2, the maps are really bad. They piegon hole you into certain builds all the time, really big ramps, separated bases.... All they do is promote heavy heavy cheese, Its a dual zerg 8-10 pool playground with ramps that big. Lets say for instance you play terran in 4v4 rt, how the fuck do you defend your allys on the other side of the map against dual 10 pools? . YOu can do a fast gas to reactor hellion, but if the 10 pools hit your side instead, your dead because you wont have it out in time. So really terran is forced into 2 rax marine everygame and pulling scvs. Most of the time your ally die and your just fighting a downhill battle from the get go. Bascially the balance is so bad its pointless to even play C) 1v1 is where its at , blizzard knows this and thats all they care about.
If blizz care about 1v1 why is the map pool total shit? With unbalanced map spawns and just generally bad
Maps?
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I don't think people take the ladder too seriously. At least if you used to it's a good reason not to.
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On September 12 2012 14:56 wptlzkwjd wrote:
This is a really good trick to get the achievements for top 8 masters 1v1 or team games.
kind of... It's kind of like cheating IMO. To me it's like saying map-hacking is a good trick to be better at this game. Obviously it is NOT a good trick to be better, just an example. To me, if you have a top 8 masters achievement it should really mean something. Mean you know quite a bit about this game. With exploits like this its hard to know just how GOOD you really have to be to get these achievements.
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I wouldn't consider it a big issue, although since blizzard is actively "rewarding" people for reaching top 50/25/8 by making their league sign more prettu it kind of is an issue, that people can reach the most pristine league decals with so little effort. It can even happen unintentionally. If you're busy the first 2-3 weeks of a new season and don't do your placement matches you will generally end up in an easier division (average pointcount 100-300 lowered compared to divisions formed the first week after ladder reset). If people wanted to exploit this without not playing SC2, they could just focus on team league the first 2-3 weeks and do their solo games after this period to catch an easy division.
But as I said, it is only a minor issue and any serious SC2 player knows this and will use SC2ranks and equivalents so rate how well people are doing.
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I am a terribly bad horrible aweful player, but I can get to mid-top masters because of my huge bonus pool bank. When I was rank 1 diamond I had 0 bonus pool. I won a few games and got promoted to master, and it just straight up gave me 300 bonus pool lol. I doubt it is a bug, but i feel like its a mistake on blizzards part to do that. It makes the ladder misleading because I belong on the bottom of masters, not the middle or top.
I've never been top 8 master in multiplayer, but I have been from rank 10-16 before, and the most ive waited was 2 minutes. But I can see your wait time is ridiculous. It sucks because you dont really want to play with or against bad players, so you dont want it to just give you people right away. However, there isnt much you can do about it. People are starting to drop out of this game for new ones that are coming out, and games like LoL and dota.
Plus, apparently (according to the popular belief) most players are of bronze-gold skill level, so you dont have a high population at your mmr.
As for getting top masters by playing at the end of the season: no one gives a shit. Ladder rank, league, points, all dont mean jack shit. They are simply there to make you feel good and keep you playing; eye candy. If being top8 master with 4 games played makes you feel good, then keep doing it, but it doesnt mean anything to anyone else, so it isnt a problem.
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On September 12 2012 11:49 Kashll wrote:
You spent a long time researching things, preparing screenshots and writing. Yet you didn't look up the correct spelling of "queue". You could be saying brilliant things about starcraft, I don't know. Because i instantly started skimming your posts once you lost your credibility.
Life is in the details man.
You didnt capitalize one of your "i's." Man you must be really retarded..........
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That's so awesome, because ranking in team games matter a lot, oh wait, they don't.
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I'm sorry m8 but this was probably the most pointless thread I have seen, and the explanations weren't very good either. Of course at the start of the season, when you get placed on a new division, it's easy to get top 8 (sometimes you will be placed straight into top 8 if the division is new enough!), but you go down eventually as the days and weeks pass!
So I didn't really understand what we must get from this thread, sorry! :/
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it takes me wonder how anyone could even waste time on thinking about how he can trick the system to get a better placment in his league....not even a better mmr or more points, just better place in a division.....who the fuck does even give a shit about this?
Well if your mentally disabled in some way this can maybe work out for you....i mean if you really feel better if your rank 1 in your division instead of rank X in any other division (while having the same skill, mmr and points), then this maybe is a great thing....but as i say this requires quite a bit of stupidity to trick yourself into this, (don t expect anyone other to be "tricked" by this, because everyone knows that only points and mmr matter and not rank). The point that this is about teamrankings makes it even worse....
and overall, I m not a friend of postings who describe how to trick a system or abuse something for your own benefit (well in this case there isnt even a benefit for your, but still you know what i mean)
i see how you think this system is unfair, and maybe your intention was not give a guide how other people can abuse this, but only to point out its a bad system....but the thread name says something different....and even if i repeat myself, it doesn t matter if this system if bad or good, because no one gives a shit
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I still don't get what is the point to get into ""top 8"" of the league.
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The only thing this thread made me think of was ladder abuse in 2v2 Warcraft III : Frozen Throne. Age old story with smurfing, only difference with sc2 compared to wc3 is you can make infinite accounts on WC for free. Thanks for the trip down memory lane, but honestly who cares about this at all, top 8 with 20 points is meaningless.
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Blizzard wants people to easily make it top the top of their divisions. That's why they created the divisions to begin with. It gives people a sense of accomplishment without them actually having to work hard for it. I hesitate to call this abuse.
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On September 12 2012 11:49 Kashll wrote:
You spent a long time researching things, preparing screenshots and writing. Yet you didn't look up the correct spelling of "queue". You could be saying brilliant things about starcraft, I don't know. Because i instantly started skimming your posts once you lost your credibility.
Life is in the details man.
User was warned for this post
You didn't capitalized "i" and s and c in "starcraft". You've lost your credibility. Life is in details.
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Divisions are bullshit.
I want a real ranking.
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On September 13 2012 07:49 YouthSC wrote:
I'm sorry m8 but this was probably the most pointless thread I have seen, and the explanations weren't very good either. Of course at the start of the season, when you get placed on a new division, it's easy to get top 8 (sometimes you will be placed straight into top 8 if the division is new enough!), but you go down eventually as the days and weeks pass!
So I didn't really understand what we must get from this thread, sorry! :/
Sorry you didn't understand it. I made it as clear as possible, did you read the whole thing? You are right. When you get placed in a new division it IS easy to get top 8. The point is DAYS AND WEEKS do NOT pass by. Like I said in my post, when you place on the LAST DAY of the season, the league does not have enough time to get competitive. If you play just a couple games you can be top 8. Please re-read my post to make more sense of this.
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Ranking in team games is almost completely meaningless. The points system in team games ( especially 4v4) is a joke, its no secret. I have 3 friends who have all gotten to diamond or masters in 4v4 thanks to having me on their team(their all bronze or silver in 1v1, I'm high masters 1v1). One is my brother IRL who was in his very first season of sc2. It really irks me every time I see some guy in masters in team leagues masquerading around like he is a masters level player as well because almost anyone can get to masters in team games if you just keep queuing games.
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I think alot of people dont quite understand or just didnt read everything.
This PROTOTYPE noob is a perfect example of what you're talking about. he waited till the last day to place his 1v1 AND his 2v2 because he knows just how bad he really is. I know who PROTOTYPE is and I know for a fact that he maphacks and only plays games when some1 is smurfing on a bronze account for him.
Like going from low plat everything to rank 1 world masters in 3s is just not possible without texpoilting smurfing and maphacks.
Your solutions that you thought of for this issue on how blizzard can fix this, seem very viable. I agree with you completely. for those who thinkthis is actually think this is a 'how to guide". It's not, Poptartsplash is bringing this issue into the light because it is bogus and too easy to do. I've seen many lower than master skill level players reach top masters by doing this.
I'll admit ive used a smurf aswell, not to make my opponents easier but to lower the queue time because I aswell have very high MMR and cant stand to wait 10+ minutes for a game i only get 5 points for.
The 1v1 part of this thread that was mentioned about getting top 8 in your division with ease by waiting till the last day of the season to do your 1 placement match. Really just proves to every1 that you were leveled once and do this just to look good on ur career summary every season.
And, if PROTOTYPE reads this i hope he gets smart, stops maphacking and goes back to plat to learn how to actually play instead of being a total fake, cheating and exploiting the game's flaws.
I agree with Poptartflash if you didnt get that by now.
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It never ceases to amaze me how pointlessly douchey people can be just over a simple post. The guy pointed out a flaw in the system, that's it. If you don't think it's important, go on to the next thread. There is really no need to insult the guy and generally be an asshat.
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On September 13 2012 10:06 DrGreen wrote:
Divisions are bullshit.
I want a real ranking.
Agreed. It was a bit interesting due to it's complexity at first but I wish they would please drop this Division stuff. I would really like the "behind-the-scenes" MMR to be displayed in some fashion and a percentile/total/tier ranking.
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On September 13 2012 10:39 BabyfaceSC wrote:
I think alot of people dont quite understand or just didnt read everything.
This PROTOTYPE noob is a perfect example of what you're talking about. he waited till the last day to place his 1v1 AND his 2v2 because he knows just how bad he really is. I know who PROTOTYPE is and I know for a fact that he maphacks and only plays games when some1 is smurfing on a bronze account for him.
Like going from low plat everything to rank 1 world masters in 3s is just not possible without texpoilting smurfing and maphacks.
Actually it's very possible to up from plat to master in one or two season. It's not because you can't do it then other ppl can't do it either.
One of my teammate did Bronze => Plat => Master in 2 seasons and I personnally up from plat to master in one, with like 500 games. And I promise you I don't cheat, I justed trained well with good players.
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Lol... why do you even care if someone abuses the system to be top 8 masters, does it really mean anything? If someone is that dumb to waste an account just for bragging (just like all the idiots that pay pro's to level their account), you should just really not give a crap, really it doesn't matter.
About long waiting time I agree, that is a problem and should be fixed, I think it also occurred with pro's, having too high MMR to be able to play on ladder at all, you should write it on Blizzard's forums so they will know about your solution. (I like btw, nice thinking )
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You will still be able to do this, since the idea of this is more so that the division itself doesn't fill up completely.
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It's Poptart!
I approve of this thread!
Too bad that "competitive team play" is a big oxymoron... but is fun for sh*ts and giggles.
Sincerely,
A True-Solo-Queue-4v4-Random-Rank-2-Masters-Player :D
On September 13 2012 09:49 pOnarreT wrote:Show nested quote +On September 12 2012 11:49 Kashll wrote:
You spent a long time researching things, preparing screenshots and writing. Yet you didn't look up the correct spelling of "queue". You could be saying brilliant things about starcraft, I don't know. Because i instantly started skimming your posts once you lost your credibility.
Life is in the details man.
User was warned for this post You didn't capitalized "i" and s and c in "starcraft". You've lost your credibility. Life is in details.
Additional Corrections:
*The sentence starting with "You could..." is a run-on sentence. Replace the comma with a period to separate two complete sentences.
*The sentence starting with "Because..." is a fragmented sentence. You must have a main clause before or after the subordinate clause to make it a complete sentence.
*"Started to skim" > "Started skimming"
*People make mistakes. It is life.
*i pssoibly mdae an Miss Take in this sentences i think i may have spelt it wrongly? because , i dont know.
*Just sayin'.
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Okay, so Poptarts ideas for fixing the problem seem good to me. Im pretty much up for anything to fix the que time issue. As a bonus i would include the que i got today. And mind you that for some reason it still didnt place me in a league after the game. Battle.net needs to be fixed. It ruins the game when you get a high mmr and you literally cannot play the game. I actually fell asleep during the que time (didnt help i am sick) but thats besides the point. There needs to be a fix because once you hit a certain point the only way to actually play the game is to smurf so basically smurfing gets promoted by these que times. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xpvdR.png)
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Hahaha, Thanks Rain, you're amazing!
Punisher, Thanks for the picture i really appreciate it! Same here, on the topic of queuing, you basically HAVE to smurf to be able to play games. 184 minutes is WAY too long LOL!
Babyface, Thanks for understanding! I like what you said here "for those who thinkthis is actually think this is a 'how to guide". It's not, Poptartsplash is bringing this issue into the light because it is bogus and too easy to do. I've seen many lower than master skill level players reach top masters by doing this."
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I can't believe that you willingly queue that long for team games. If you'll wait that long to play, just invest time into playing 1v1 o.o
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I feel like the waiting until end of season to get top 8 would be fixed if they would fix the issue of people who play 1 game a season just to keep their league. The real issue here is if you are so inactive that you play like 3 or 4 games a season, why is the system keeping you in masters? There should be some kind of decay on MMR.
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queue is only long cuz u play 2-3am in NA...
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@killingvector, I agree 100 percent.
@OpTikDream. Probably KIND of true but not really :/. I'm sure it can't help tho. look at this: http://www.twitch.tv/natmo0470/b/332079155 - That is Punishers stream from when he decided to start streaming how long it took. He started queuing about 4:30 PM.
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@eifer funny thing is i fell asleep. and @OpTiKDream it was at around 4:30 like Poptart said. i cant play at 2-3am usually because im in school and it sucks when i get back from school and it takes 3 hours to get into a game pretty much takes up my day for one game.
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I'm not in favor of anything that you propose.
I have no sympathy for your long Q times since you and your other xS buddies Q all day into 4v4 random with 3 players in order to finish top few in the world in random brackets and think you're good, playing 3 arranged against 4 randoms all day.
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I guess it's cool to brag about but being if it shows that you were high master in achievements it doesn't really show or tell that much, unless of course you played a lot of games or so the legit way.
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Yeah I have no sympathy for these xS and mKc 4v4 progamers either when they are farming easy wins all day with 3 premades in random 4s. 99% of their games end in < 10 minutes and they do literally the same thing almost every time (some variant of abusive coordinated attack that a team of randoms have no chance to stop). Its pretty funny when they are basically collecting free wins all day (while trash talking “legit” random 4s players and thinking they are good) and then complain about having a too high MMR.
EDIT: I thought it is common sense that it is much easier to get a better rank in divisons created near season end since the players are generally less active and you need fewer points to climb up the ranks. Only these 4v4 progamers would think this is some sort of “ladder abuse” because they are the only ones that think their top master ranks in team games actually mean something.
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On September 15 2012 02:47 vNmMasterT wrote:
Yeah I have no sympathy for these xS and mKc 4v4 progamers either when they are farming easy wins all day with 3 premades in random 4s. 99% of their games end in < 10 minutes and they do literally the same thing almost every time (some variant of abusive coordinated attack that a team of randoms have no chance to stop). Its pretty funny when they are basically collecting free wins all day (while trash talking “legit” random 4s players and thinking they are good) and then complain about having a too high MMR.
Completely agree. Didn't know bragging about team games was cool. Guess I learned something out of this.
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This is how you could cheat your mmr high in WoW arena. Play with low rating alts 100% winrate. Leave team and team up with gladiator calibre players who did the same. 2800+ in 40 games.
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Don't know why to abuse 3x3, I've played like 150 games to get top1 masters (1300 pts) with absolutely terrible build-orders while I'm a shitty diamond Terran player with 100 awful APM.
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Well points do not have a direct relationship towards your MMR and your skill. I personally don't mind how many ladder points I get anymore. I have learned to love the game for the game itself, rather than how good I can possibly get at it
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I play mostly 4v4 RT in ladder (have been since the very first season), the vast majority of the time I fly solo. My win rate when going solo is probably about 55% at best. But I'll bet you that I had a hell of a lot more fun winning crazy/insane 4v4 games in a legit fashion than these other guys who literally won't even play 4's RT unless they are running with 2 others AND have to do some form of ling/ling/helion since they are afraid to play a straight up game even against 4 randoms (LOL). Like 75% of players in supson channel are like this, fucking pathetic.
It's lame that losers like PROTOTYPE can get high masters from doing basically nothing, but whatever, let him have his top 8 masters star. Your rank only has meaning if you know that you've earned it and didn't abuse to get it. The most important thing is that you actually have fun playing the games... I really don't see what's fun about winning with ling/ling/helion all day against 4 randoms. I don't need a 90% win rate too boost my ego, my 55% win rate playing straight up is good enough for me.
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I really smiled at the point: " You normally can't get from plat to masters in one season!" :D I have a friend who got from silver to masters in one season I helped him a little but still it is possible once you really understand how the game is going.
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PROTOTYPE didn't even get top 8.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/vKtjOl.jpg)
Why is there someone that plays team games complaining about 1v1?
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l6ZZjl.jpg)
Did anyone notice anything in the last two minutes of the video that PopTartSplash linked?
Check this out: http://www.twitch.tv/natmo0470/b/332079155?t=192m45s
Maphack downloaded. Two SC2 clients open. The one in the back leaves the game automatically.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/5nhggl.jpg)
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On September 15 2012 03:23 rhs408 wrote:
I play mostly 4v4 RT in ladder (have been since the very first season), the vast majority of the time I fly solo. My win rate when going solo is probably about 55% at best. But I'll bet you that I had a hell of a lot more fun winning crazy/insane 4v4 games in a legit fashion than these other guys who literally won't even play 4's RT unless they are running with 2 others AND have to do some form of ling/ling/helion since they are afraid to play a straight up game even against 4 randoms (LOL). Like 75% of players in supson channel are like this, fucking pathetic.
It's lame that losers like PROTOTYPE can get high masters from doing basically nothing, but whatever, let him have his top 8 masters star. Your rank only has meaning if you know that you've earned it and didn't abuse to get it. The most important thing is that you actually have fun playing the games... I really don't see what's fun about winning with ling/ling/helion all day against 4 randoms. I don't need a 90% win rate too boost my ego, my 55% win rate playing straight up is good enough for me.
In case you missed it, the OP is one of “these other guys”. In fact, he is also queuing with low ranked smurf friends to get easier opponents (or according to him, lower the queue time). The funny thing to me is how he somehow thinks that he is better than this PROTOTYPE guy (hint: he is not), and that he is jealous about this guy having the star that only true 4v4 progamers like himself deserve.
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On September 12 2012 11:39 Prplppleatr wrote:
1. this won't happen with the new ladder system they implemented this season (rank is based on actual lvl in ur skill range, ie diamond, masters, w.e...rank 1 is top 1%)
All they did was remove the tiers in Diamond and below which won't change anything about this.
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On September 15 2012 03:46 iPhone5 wrote:PROTOTYPE didn't even get top 8. Why is there someone that plays team games complaining about 1v1? Did anyone notice anything in the last two minutes of the video that PopTartSplash linked? Check this out: http://www.twitch.tv/natmo0470/b/332079155?t=192m45sMaphack downloaded. Two SC2 clients open. The one in the back leaves the game automatically.
Why am I not surprised? I could tell he had something douchey going on.
Good find.
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Title is so misleading. This is just a trick (obvious one) to be top of the league you've been playing last season nothing to do with top 8master.
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On September 15 2012 03:46 iPhone5 wrote:PROTOTYPE didn't even get top 8. Why is there someone that plays team games complaining about 1v1? Did anyone notice anything in the last two minutes of the video that PopTartSplash linked? Check this out: http://www.twitch.tv/natmo0470/b/332079155?t=192m45sMaphack downloaded. Two SC2 clients open. The one in the back leaves the game automatically.
lol n1... smh
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Wow... This got kind of crazy. But listen iphone5. Last season I did not play 1v1s on POPTART, although i did on my other account. I went bronze to masters. Ended season with 664 points (about half earned while being in masters), over 500 BP I never got the chance to use, and 187 wins 77 losses. Every game I fast expanded. I guess my point here is, that I DO play lots of 1v1's and i work a lot harder than PROTOTYPE for my rank 52 masters, while he plays 3 games for top 8 masters. (season 6). As you so obviously pointed out in season 7 HE DIDN'T GET TOP 8! LOL! He got rank 9. Sorry about that.
For you other people I am sorry you feel that way about mKc and xS. It's true, there is a lot of cheese. For us the most fun thing in team games is to see how sick of a win/loss ratio we can get. We had a team go 151 wins to 5 losses. I do not believe any player in xS BM's, I am unaware of that. Anyways we are getting off topic. I don't know about iNiPunisher, and really I don't care. I know I do not maphack and am unaware of him doing it either.
The point being here is wether or not you cheese to get amazing win/loss records, the queue time is still incredibly long, and there are players who don't work as hard for their top 8 games, as other players do. Sure it does not effect me, but its like being laddered to gm one season and then telling people you were GM. It's simply not fair.
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@Iphone5 yah sure i have it downloaded on my computer not going to deny that because its clearly there. Thing is i dont use it my brother likes to mess around with mods and stuff just to mess around i guess. If you watch my replays there is no evidence of me maphacking because i dont do it. I also dont bot on my account. Its not against game rules to have it on your computer and i definately dont use it. Ask anybody i play with and they will vouch for me and if you dont beleive them then watch my replays and you will clearly see that i do not maphack because i still miss drops and dts and stuff.
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wait so basically this guy is a hacker? well that's unfair.
and also why would you wait till the last day to place? to get a shiny new thing on your profile? i worthless is that when you don't even get to ladder, considering that you would want to ladder of course. If not, go ahead.
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I'm confused about the exploit where a player plays a placement match at the end of the season.
How can you guarantee that he will be put into a new division that is mostly empty? Why would the division he get put into be mostly empty?
Also, in order to get placed into Masters after 1 placement match, he needs to have a Masters level MMR. So unless it's shown that he illegitimately got a Masters MMR, which you haven't, how then is this abuse?
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How can you guarantee that he will be put into a new division that is mostly empty? Why would the division he get put into be mostly empty?
He will be placed in the latest created division (all the old ones are full) with other players who joined just before him.
I guess it takes some time for a new division to fill up,or to be promoted/degraded into a different tier division of the same level.
And if you join just before end season, there has not been time for it to fill up, its filled with a few players who all only have a few games because they joined not that long ago.
(not sure, just a guess)
He must have at least master mmr,also dont realy see how this is abusing annything:s
Its just easier to get a high rank in a new division with few people i guess.
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team games; didnt read
User was temp banned for this post.
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On September 15 2012 04:12 MiQ wrote:Show nested quote +On September 15 2012 03:46 iPhone5 wrote:PROTOTYPE didn't even get top 8. Why is there someone that plays team games complaining about 1v1? Did anyone notice anything in the last two minutes of the video that PopTartSplash linked? Check this out: http://www.twitch.tv/natmo0470/b/332079155?t=192m45sMaphack downloaded. Two SC2 clients open. The one in the back leaves the game automatically. Why am I not surprised? I could tell he had something douchey going on. Good find.
someone who cares too much about team games and maphacks... reminds me of those people in warcraft 3 who would maphack and hunt/fiend every single game. pretty sad.
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It always made me laugh to play against top master players which had only played this season.
"Hi i'm going to buy a new sc2 account only to rape noobs and easily win points so I can get this extremely important shiny star on my master icon".
That's so sad and stupid to feel so concerned about this sc2 ladder >_<
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Well, I was using familiar (but way lesser) abuse strategy just in 1v1 ladder.
I would wait a week from launch of new ladder season and then go to check sc2ranks.com divisions average points. If there was a division with high average points which wasn't empty, I would wait a little bit more. When sc2ranks.com showed that all high-points divisions were full and only low-points divisions were left, I would go do my placement matches . Getting Top 8 Masters in those divisions were as hard as getting Top 25 in normal ones.
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It's only a icon , it doesn't affect the level of players you are matched against , MOST people don't care if you were rank 1 masters or 99. If you really care about those icons ... here is a hint GET BETTER AT THE GAME , get GM rank 1 and then you can wank at it not at a top 8 masters icon
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this is nothing there is no trick he is just using a smurf account in 4v4 teams, wouldnt work in 1v1 because its 1v1, joining late in the season will get you in a joke devision for sure but you have to not play for the whole season to achive this and rank means nothing so aslo this is useless, nice post and thourogh but there is nothing in here that does anything new or useful, no offense.
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we got a hacker!!!!!!!!!!!
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The problem with queue times has been known about for a long time, mainly in 2v2 but also 1v1. A lot of players get muliple accounts or play with new people all the time to reduce the queue time. It does mean that you usually go against weaker players though :/ still, nothing new about it
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NA happens to be one of the easiest regions to get Grandmaster in T_T. Instead of QQing about trivial icons, we need to step it up! :D
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Best part is that Blizz changed divisions this season so it won't work! lol.
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On September 16 2012 04:57 algorithm0r wrote:
Best part is that Blizz changed divisions this season so it won't work! lol.
It will still work. there is no way to maintain an even spread of skill and activity across all division if you are not moving players midseason. So playing in the last season before the ladder closes will still give you a high rank, if you care about that, which is ridiculus.
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On September 15 2012 11:18 PunisherSC wrote:
@Iphone5 yah sure i have it downloaded on my computer not going to deny that because its clearly there. Thing is i dont use it my brother likes to mess around with mods and stuff just to mess around i guess. If you watch my replays there is no evidence of me maphacking because i dont do it. I also dont bot on my account. Its not against game rules to have it on your computer and i definately dont use it. Ask anybody i play with and they will vouch for me and if you dont beleive them then watch my replays and you will clearly see that i do not maphack because i still miss drops and dts and stuff.
Here we go with the "My brother/sister/cousin does it" excuse...
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Reminds me of the guy that posted screenshots with maphack on to wgtour admins.
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On September 16 2012 04:57 algorithm0r wrote:
Best part is that Blizz changed divisions this season so it won't work! lol.
Only changed tiers for bronze through diamond. In masters, this will still work.
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After another day playing against these losers who Q all day every day, I must say again I am very glad your Q times are so long.
You and all xS members are totally pathetic.
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Chylo, please add to the conversation rather than saying basically the same thing over and over again...
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EPT
