• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 19:34
CEST 01:34
KST 08:34
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
Who will win EWC 2025? Geoff 'iNcontroL' Robinson has passed away Program: SC2 / XSplit / OBS Scene Switcher Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
Corsair Pursuit Micro? BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Pro gamer house photos Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
BWCL Season 63 Announcement CSL Xiamen International Invitational [Megathread] Daily Proleagues 2025 ACS Season 2 Qualifier
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
[MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Path of Exile Nintendo Switch Thread CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 541 users

Situation Report: August 31, 2012 by David Kim - Page 45

Forum Index > SC2 General
950 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 48 Next All
Zedromas
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada112 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 03:36:23
September 03 2012 03:35 GMT
#881
When I've just lost a close macro game and I have 4k gas banked I never go "Man I wish Id made more ravens!" IMO ravens will never be the cost efficient gas dump that terran needs. Ghosts used to fill that role pre-nerf, but ravens seriously don't cut it.

MY problem with ravens is that they require two different upgrades, on top of a substantial energy wait-time, to be useful for anything but killing creep. I want to launch those awesome seeker missles but I have yet to find a solid build that transitions out of mid-game into ravens, without sacrificing either map control or economy.

Does anyone else feel like Terran got screwed over in their Tier 3 units?

And to all the haters in this thread; post something constructive or insightful or gtfo. Nobody wants to read your stupid, poorly-written one liners and puns. Go back to reddit
But she said she was 18!!!!
My_Fake_Plastic_Luv
Profile Joined March 2010
United States257 Posts
September 03 2012 04:12 GMT
#882
I'm really just a whiny terran and don't really understand anything. But I got a few questions
1) Why does DKim/Blizz team make the changes so drastic (thinking for instance snipe with ghosts). I mean is there a big problem with adding like 5 hitpoints to something or 1 range.
2) Are terrans complaining about fungal growth (I think this is the real problem zvt btw)? I really hate watching sht get fungaled over and over. I mean after the first fungal it takes minimal skillz to repeat fungal a bunch of units to death. Personally I think there should be a cool down for fungaled units... so they can run/snipe infestas; think that would make for some nice micro situations. Compare fungal to emp/storm, these spells don't necessarily bone a bunch of opposing units.
3) Why don't pro-terrans pop one raven before starporting medievacs (especially with that reactor hellions, cloaked banshee). Seems to me terran should use an early game raven with their map-control hellion force. Or does this completely f the build order into rine/tank.
Discuss this sht plz.
Its going to be a glorious day, I feel my luck could change
Crow!
Profile Joined September 2011
United States150 Posts
September 03 2012 04:22 GMT
#883
It would be nice if they could fix 1.5 so we can play it. Hard for the metagame to advance when so much of the player base has been locked out.
PersonDudeGuy
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada47 Posts
September 03 2012 05:49 GMT
#884
Really REALLY disapointed.

I was looking forward to the curbing of zerg's insane creep spread and a long awaited raven buff and yet based on a single tournament where (IMO) the winning terrans outplayed the losing zergs they're retracting everything...

-_-

I have seen many pro games where terrans try ravens, i have done it myself, i have yet to see why they should be our saving grace. Ravens have a single major asset; they're extremely supply efficient, nearly as supply efficient as infestors. That being said, they're not as cost effecient IMO.

In spite of raising hopes and winrates i have to continue throwing this fact out there:

Seeker Missile has 6 range.
Fungal growth has 9 range with radius 2.0

It is a fact that ravens are outranged by a full 5 from infestors. In addition they're slower when infestor are on creep and the HSM can be dodged if the infestor has a head start. By this measure there should be very few if any situations where a infestor is beaten by ravens.

IDK. It's a very frustrating match up which is made more so from the retraction of a hopeful buff to an underused unit, it's made worse that they seem to not even address creep either.\

Double hellion openings ftw
diablo3guy
Profile Joined September 2012
6 Posts
September 03 2012 06:20 GMT
#885
I had to switch to league of legends to have a fun game expereience anymore, beating a zerg or a protoss who KNOWS what they are doing (key point here) just DOES NOT HAPPEN. ever. unless you are just flat out way better than them..like mvp vs random foreigner patchzergs who still gives him trouble rofl.


great game blizzard :/
Doko
Profile Joined May 2010
Argentina1737 Posts
September 03 2012 06:29 GMT
#886
As a terran buff: Ravens could use -10 build time and maybe a slightly stronger auto turret, pretty much anything else breaks a lot of things.
As a zerg nerf: A model size reduction on infestors to make them more susceptible to emp or movement speed reduction would make a huge difference as well. I highly doubt they would touch dmg or casting range.
stevarius
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1394 Posts
September 03 2012 06:35 GMT
#887
On September 03 2012 15:29 Doko wrote:
As a terran buff: Ravens could use -10 build time and maybe a slightly stronger auto turret, pretty much anything else breaks a lot of things.
As a zerg nerf: A model size reduction on infestors to make them more susceptible to emp or movement speed reduction would make a huge difference as well. I highly doubt they would touch dmg or casting range.


Raven build time would be awesome.

I build many of them yet wonder where the fuck they are all the time. Answer: still in production. -_-
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Eps
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada240 Posts
September 03 2012 06:47 GMT
#888
I have come to use Ravens in late game situations. But the situations where you can safely field them are very few.

I can only bring them out when I split the map in TvZ when I have a couple to a few PF's at key chokes, or when I'm pretty much ahead or when I know there's no imminent attack coming. <-All of these mean I'm pretty much ahead and I'm just looking for something to deliver the final blow safely.

To those suggesting that we get Ravens sooner. It cuts severely into upgrades and other Gas Intensive units - Ghosts/Medivacs/Tanks.

I've gotten Ravens quickly a few time while I was taking my third, and I end up getting wrecked while my SM is researching or Ravens are waiting for energy. The 125 energy requirement for Ravens is just ridiculous, especially when their range is so limited. It's a very high-risk investment in mid-game situations without a guaranteed payoff.
chris5180
Profile Joined July 2012
198 Posts
September 03 2012 09:10 GMT
#889
really cool, im sad when i see those ravens when i got DT's
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-03 09:21:54
September 03 2012 09:20 GMT
#890
On September 01 2012 01:49 [F_]aths wrote:
I am amazed how many guys think when they don't agree with Blizzard's stance, that Blizzard is wrong.


This.

All the people complaining that because of MVP it's harder for other terrans..... I thought everyone was interested in the game being balanced at the very top level?
I remember complaints because of patches where they made matchups more balanced in the bronze/silver league area, but you guys complain when they don't do it for low/mid masters?

MVP raised the bar, you follow suit or you fall behind, this has been the way for every race.
Just be happy you have someone to copy/look up to. Zerg didn't have this for a while when they were losing, and neither did protoss.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Quixotic_tv
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Germany130 Posts
September 03 2012 09:25 GMT
#891
It is because Blizzard really hates Terrans. They love Protoss and Zerg, but prefer Zerg more. That is why they want to destroy a race they have designed in order to make the game more boring. Really?
Life always finds a way.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
September 03 2012 09:26 GMT
#892
On September 03 2012 18:25 papalion wrote:
It is because Blizzard really hates Terrans. They love Protoss and Zerg, but prefer Zerg more. That is why they want to destroy a race they have designed in order to make the game more boring. Really?


Yes that's obviously exactly their intentions, they don't care, they lost their passion!
Also nice first post.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Domus
Profile Joined March 2011
510 Posts
September 03 2012 09:57 GMT
#893
I think this is the right call and I am not a zerg player. I think the game is quite balanced, but...it is pretty boring to watch at this point. I do think the micro skillcap is different for zerg and terran/toss.

What I mean is, for zerg there is not as much gain in microing the basic units. If you compare it to marine or zealot/stalker/sentry micro it is just...well...sad . Hell, I noticed quite a couple of euro zergs in tournaments 1a-ing their single control group army and still doing quite alright :s.

It might be a design choice considering the zerg also need to spend quite some time on injects and creep, but I think that is just a bad design choice. I don't get excited when someone wins because he has good injects or spreads a lot of creep, and knows how to rush up the tech tree. That should not be enough to do good at tournaments, but maybe that is just me. So I hope the expansion gives zergs something better to play with in that regard.
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
September 03 2012 10:01 GMT
#894
I just dont understand why it's so hard to make the raven as sick great as the infestor. It's not that they are free or something... I would make the missile 75 energy and no upgrades needed. Maybe then zergs will start splitting units?
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
September 03 2012 10:10 GMT
#895
On September 03 2012 19:01 Snowbear wrote:
I just dont understand why it's so hard to make the raven as sick great as the infestor. It's not that they are free or something... I would make the missile 75 energy and no upgrades needed. Maybe then zergs will start splitting units?

Because of balancing reasons.
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
September 03 2012 11:00 GMT
#896
On September 03 2012 19:01 Snowbear wrote:
I just dont understand why it's so hard to make the raven as sick great as the infestor. It's not that they are free or something... I would make the missile 75 energy and no upgrades needed. Maybe then zergs will start splitting units?

I really hope you are kididng here.
The reason infestors are so strong is because they are backbone of the zerg army. When the raven reached that kind of importance you might consider your buff.
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
September 03 2012 11:07 GMT
#897
On September 03 2012 20:00 Assirra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 19:01 Snowbear wrote:
I just dont understand why it's so hard to make the raven as sick great as the infestor. It's not that they are free or something... I would make the missile 75 energy and no upgrades needed. Maybe then zergs will start splitting units?

I really hope you are kididng here.
The reason infestors are so strong is because they are backbone of the zerg army. When the raven reached that kind of importance you might consider your buff.


Medivacs and tanks are the backbone of the terran army. When I make ravens, I put gas in ravens, not in tanks or medivacs, so ravens become the backbone of my army.
Tuczniak
Profile Joined September 2010
1561 Posts
September 03 2012 11:18 GMT
#898
On September 03 2012 20:07 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 20:00 Assirra wrote:
On September 03 2012 19:01 Snowbear wrote:
I just dont understand why it's so hard to make the raven as sick great as the infestor. It's not that they are free or something... I would make the missile 75 energy and no upgrades needed. Maybe then zergs will start splitting units?

I really hope you are kididng here.
The reason infestors are so strong is because they are backbone of the zerg army. When the raven reached that kind of importance you might consider your buff.


Medivacs and tanks are the backbone of the terran army. When I make ravens, I put gas in ravens, not in tanks or medivacs, so ravens become the backbone of my army.
In short it would be so OP lategame. Just imagine yourself.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
September 03 2012 11:20 GMT
#899
On September 03 2012 20:07 Snowbear wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 20:00 Assirra wrote:
On September 03 2012 19:01 Snowbear wrote:
I just dont understand why it's so hard to make the raven as sick great as the infestor. It's not that they are free or something... I would make the missile 75 energy and no upgrades needed. Maybe then zergs will start splitting units?

I really hope you are kididng here.
The reason infestors are so strong is because they are backbone of the zerg army. When the raven reached that kind of importance you might consider your buff.


Medivacs and tanks are the backbone of the terran army. When I make ravens, I put gas in ravens, not in tanks or medivacs, so ravens become the backbone of my army.


That's so wrong, just from a production perspective. I might give you that arguement if you had larva production*, but as Terran you are not doing these huge production switches unless you are high supply - at which point you already have an army backbone. It's just not happening, this is completly made up.


*and even there we see broods and infestors and corruptors and banelings being produced, which are all gastintense and don't deny each other completly, though you have to adjust the ratio
Snowbear
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Korea (South)1925 Posts
September 03 2012 11:41 GMT
#900
On September 03 2012 20:18 Tuczniak wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 03 2012 20:07 Snowbear wrote:
On September 03 2012 20:00 Assirra wrote:
On September 03 2012 19:01 Snowbear wrote:
I just dont understand why it's so hard to make the raven as sick great as the infestor. It's not that they are free or something... I would make the missile 75 energy and no upgrades needed. Maybe then zergs will start splitting units?

I really hope you are kididng here.
The reason infestors are so strong is because they are backbone of the zerg army. When the raven reached that kind of importance you might consider your buff.


Medivacs and tanks are the backbone of the terran army. When I make ravens, I put gas in ravens, not in tanks or medivacs, so ravens become the backbone of my army.
In short it would be so OP lategame. Just imagine yourself.


So it would be as strong as broodlord infestor? Isn't that what we terrans want?
Prev 1 43 44 45 46 47 48 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 1d 10h
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
JuggernautJason163
StarCraft: Brood War
firebathero 231
Aegong 24
Dota 2
monkeys_forever791
League of Legends
Grubby5899
Counter-Strike
fl0m2463
Stewie2K1180
Fnx 254
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe83
Other Games
tarik_tv34759
summit1g16015
gofns14809
hungrybox604
shahzam562
Maynarde165
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick2441
BasetradeTV49
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 63
• RyuSc2 57
• davetesta47
• musti20045 33
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• imaqtpie2101
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
1d 10h
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Esports World Cup
2 days
Esports World Cup
3 days
Esports World Cup
4 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
5 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Liquipedia Results

Completed

2025 ACS Season 2
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.