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On August 26 2012 03:58 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 03:49 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
i have to say, i find the anti-kespa sentiments pretty laughable. kespa+ogn (lest we not forget mbc either), in their own right, has been keeping the starcraft scene running and very financially viable for a long while, and not to mention running a variety of other game leagues (hello LoL). two years in and the gsl still struggles to fill seats. the ESF members themselves, and partners, take on great financial burden to keep foreign interests invested in the GSL by having to fly and house their members all over the world, with only a select few bringing a return on investment.
some of you thinking that kespa having to 'give into' the gsl is ridiculous. it is the situation where gom is at the mercy of kespa/ogn, not the other way around. the osl and pl are the true premier starcraft leagues; korean bw fans will have absolutely zero issue if esf pulls out of osl, for all the better for them to see their own fan interests take the place of esf members who have forfeited their positions. the only recourse is intervention by blizzard, who will do what? ban kespa from sc2? Blizzard can stoop to KeSPA-level of scumbaggery, like emergency server maintenance 10 minutes before heated OS2L/SPL finals, or a blanket ban on KeSPA accounts. Thank god for no-LAN. And IMO, I won't miss Korean BW fans either, they are the some of the most disgusting people to ever browse on the world wide web, and when I compare them to you BW elitists, I see saintly posts in front of me. As of now they're still assravaged that BW is dead and at this point, it will do more bad than good, trying to force them to enjoy what they absolutely despise. Good riddance, I say. I'm curious how the law would pan out if Blizzard decided to attack Kespa, SC2, the players, and the fans in such a brazen manner. Judging by the state of these threads, foreigners would suck their cocks, but I can't imagine Korea would tolerate it.
What in the blue hell are you talking about?
A guy just wrote an article with regards to this the other day. If you want you can go give it a read.
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On August 26 2012 03:15 Fionn wrote:
ESF has KeSPA by the balls. The first games of OSL are in two days. I'm sure they already produced the opening video, graphics, etc.
If the ESF players (besides Oz) drop out, then what? Do they just say, 'Hey, Bisu, Stork, and Jaedong, here, take these free spots!' and photoshop their faces onto the ESF players bodies in the intro?
I would be surprised if KeSPA doesn't just give in by the end of the today and let their players try out for Code A.
Too late for Kespa to back up on its words thought. And I head Koreans are big on honor and such. I think Kespa has enough to buffer the hit. What I worry about is how Kespa will sabotage the entire operation in the future. They have potentially the best SC2 players within the next 6 months, and with that comes the money and the leverage. They can practically throw the monkeywrench at GOM and ESF by then.
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On August 26 2012 03:58 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 03:49 JiPrime wrote:On August 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
i have to say, i find the anti-kespa sentiments pretty laughable. kespa+ogn (lest we not forget mbc either), in their own right, has been keeping the starcraft scene running and very financially viable for a long while, and not to mention running a variety of other game leagues (hello LoL). two years in and the gsl still struggles to fill seats. the ESF members themselves, and partners, take on great financial burden to keep foreign interests invested in the GSL by having to fly and house their members all over the world, with only a select few bringing a return on investment.
some of you thinking that kespa having to 'give into' the gsl is ridiculous. it is the situation where gom is at the mercy of kespa/ogn, not the other way around. the osl and pl are the true premier starcraft leagues; korean bw fans will have absolutely zero issue if esf pulls out of osl, for all the better for them to see their own fan interests take the place of esf members who have forfeited their positions. the only recourse is intervention by blizzard, who will do what? ban kespa from sc2? Blizzard can stoop to KeSPA-level of scumbaggery, like emergency server maintenance 10 minutes before heated OS2L/SPL finals, or a blanket ban on KeSPA accounts. Thank god for no-LAN. And IMO, I won't miss Korean BW fans either, they are the some of the most disgusting people to ever browse on the world wide web, and when I compare them to you BW elitists, I see saintly posts in front of me. As of now they're still assravaged that BW is dead and at this point, it will do more bad than good, trying to force them to enjoy what they absolutely despise. Good riddance, I say. I'm curious how the law would pan out if Blizzard decided to attack Kespa, SC2, the players, and the fans in such a brazen manner. Judging by the state of these threads, foreigners would suck their cocks, but I can't imagine Korea would tolerate it.
If Blizzard does it to anybody else than Kespa (or a league that is somewhat involved in another big scandal), then the players and the fans would go very aggressive against Blizzard, but against Kespa I think the people wouldn't take it that badly.
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United States23455 Posts
I expect KeSPA to fold sometime today or tomorrow. Would be stupid not to. They had possibly their best group selections of all-time, and Parting made himself out to be a new star with how well he was received by the audience. People want to see Baby/Parting, DRG/Jangbi, Nestea/Fantasy and the rest of the ESF/KeSPA matches. Throw in that they've already done photo shoots with the ESF players, probably finished their top notch opening video, and have the graphics all done, there is no reason they shouldn't just let their players try to qualify for Season 4 of Code A.
Shit, I bet if they wanted, Mr. Chae would give Roro a Code S seed for his impressive games in WCS Korea.
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On August 26 2012 04:00 Fionn wrote:
I expect KeSPA to fold sometime today or tomorrow. Would be stupid not to. They had possibly their best group selections of all-time, and Parting made himself out to be a new star with how well he was received by the audience. People want to see Baby/Parting, DRG/Jangbi, Nestea/Fantasy and the rest of the ESF/KeSPA matches. Throw in that they've already done photo shoots with the ESF players, probably finished their top notch opening video, and have the graphics all done, there is no reason they shouldn't just let their players try to qualify for Season 4 of Code A.
Shit, I bet if they wanted, Mr. Chae would give Roro a Code S seed for his impressive games in WCS Korea.
I hope you are right.
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On August 26 2012 03:50 Fionn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
i have to say, i find the anti-kespa sentiments pretty laughable. kespa+ogn (lest we not forget mbc either), in their own right, has been keeping the starcraft scene running and very financially viable for a long while, and not to mention running a variety of other game leagues (hello LoL). two years in and the gsl still struggles to fill seats. the ESF members themselves, and partners, take on great financial burden to keep foreign interests invested in the GSL by having to fly and house their members all over the world, with only a select few bringing a return on investment.
some of you thinking that kespa having to 'give into' the gsl is ridiculous. it is the situation where gom is at the mercy of kespa/ogn, not the other way around. the osl and pl are the true premier starcraft leagues; korean bw fans will have absolutely zero issue if esf pulls out of osl, for all the better for them to see their own fan interests take the place of esf members who have forfeited their positions. the only recourse is intervention by blizzard, who will do what? ban kespa from sc2? KeSPA/OGN was the premiere Brood War league. They've done shit in SC2. GOM has made their brand global. Go to Dreamhack. Go to MLG. Go anywhere. Tastosis, Mr. Chae and the GOM staff have done a brilliant job making themselves the most prestigious and well known SC2 tournament in the world. Pretty much anyone into competitive SC2 knows the letters GSL. And why are you talking about GOM not filling their seats? There was literally no one watching during the ODT for this season's OSL. They got a huge crowd for the group selections, but that's it. I might say differently if the SC2 OSL was doing gangbusters, but there were nights when there were literally five people there. Code S continually fills up the studio. Yes, it's a small studio, but still waaaaay better than the ODT.
And to add to Fionn's post; what needs to be noted here is just that KeSPA/OGN/OSL WAS HUGE, IN SC:BW. In the SC:BW scene they were everything, there is no denying this. However this is not SC:BW, this is SC2. And KeSPA/OGN/OSL doesn't mean anything. Any other tournament like DreamHack, MLG, GSL and so forth is more important to SC2 right now. In this time, in SC2, KeSPA is the newcomers, they cannot afford starting a war against everyone like they did in SC:BW, they aren't strong enough.
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Any information on Blizzard's supposed response???....I've been waiting to hear what they have to say, but like usual they aren't very timely (they're probably waiting to see what happens, but that's not what they said they were doing..i want the response we were told we were being given).
Also, wtf people, how has every pro-kespa responder forgotten that there is supposed to be a cooperative agreement for the growth of korean esports between these two organizations. They agreed to do this with blizzard present. Blizzard expects this along with the rest of us. GOM players have shown up to their OSL matches to help support their league, KeSPA players need to do the same for GSL. THIS IS THE PROBLEM. They are backing out of the agreement and their excuses are obviously terrible and unacceptable (otherwise ESF wouldn't have taken such drastic measures). It is KeSPA that is at fault, not GOM. If they were not planning to do as they said they would, then they should not have said it.
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On August 26 2012 04:00 Fionn wrote:
I expect KeSPA to fold sometime today or tomorrow. Would be stupid not to. They had possibly their best group selections of all-time, and Parting made himself out to be a new star with how well he was received by the audience. People want to see Baby/Parting, DRG/Jangbi, Nestea/Fantasy and the rest of the ESF/KeSPA matches. Throw in that they've already done photo shoots with the ESF players, probably finished their top notch opening video, and have the graphics all done, there is no reason they shouldn't just let their players try to qualify for Season 4 of Code A.
Shit, I bet if they wanted, Mr. Chae would give Roro a Code S seed for his impressive games in WCS Korea.
we can only hope you're right, but with everything you bw guys have said about kespa i'm scared about their move tomorrow
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On August 26 2012 04:03 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 04:00 Fionn wrote:
I expect KeSPA to fold sometime today or tomorrow. Would be stupid not to. They had possibly their best group selections of all-time, and Parting made himself out to be a new star with how well he was received by the audience. People want to see Baby/Parting, DRG/Jangbi, Nestea/Fantasy and the rest of the ESF/KeSPA matches. Throw in that they've already done photo shoots with the ESF players, probably finished their top notch opening video, and have the graphics all done, there is no reason they shouldn't just let their players try to qualify for Season 4 of Code A.
Shit, I bet if they wanted, Mr. Chae would give Roro a Code S seed for his impressive games in WCS Korea. I hope you are right.
I hope he is too. I also think he is right about everything. I really just wish this drama would end, and we could see some great SC2. It has all made me quite nervous.
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On August 26 2012 04:04 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 03:50 Fionn wrote:On August 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
i have to say, i find the anti-kespa sentiments pretty laughable. kespa+ogn (lest we not forget mbc either), in their own right, has been keeping the starcraft scene running and very financially viable for a long while, and not to mention running a variety of other game leagues (hello LoL). two years in and the gsl still struggles to fill seats. the ESF members themselves, and partners, take on great financial burden to keep foreign interests invested in the GSL by having to fly and house their members all over the world, with only a select few bringing a return on investment.
some of you thinking that kespa having to 'give into' the gsl is ridiculous. it is the situation where gom is at the mercy of kespa/ogn, not the other way around. the osl and pl are the true premier starcraft leagues; korean bw fans will have absolutely zero issue if esf pulls out of osl, for all the better for them to see their own fan interests take the place of esf members who have forfeited their positions. the only recourse is intervention by blizzard, who will do what? ban kespa from sc2? KeSPA/OGN was the premiere Brood War league. They've done shit in SC2. GOM has made their brand global. Go to Dreamhack. Go to MLG. Go anywhere. Tastosis, Mr. Chae and the GOM staff have done a brilliant job making themselves the most prestigious and well known SC2 tournament in the world. Pretty much anyone into competitive SC2 knows the letters GSL. And why are you talking about GOM not filling their seats? There was literally no one watching during the ODT for this season's OSL. They got a huge crowd for the group selections, but that's it. I might say differently if the SC2 OSL was doing gangbusters, but there were nights when there were literally five people there. Code S continually fills up the studio. Yes, it's a small studio, but still waaaaay better than the ODT. And to add to Fionn's post; what needs to be noted here is just that KeSPA/OGN/OSL WAS HUGE, IN SC:BW. In the SC:BW scene they were everything, there is no denying this. However this is not SC:BW, this is SC2. And KeSPA/OGN/OSL doesn't mean anything. Any other tournament like DreamHack, MLG, GSL and so forth is more important to SC2 right now. In this time, in SC2, KeSPA is the newcomers, they cannot afford starting a war against everyone like they did in SC:BW, they aren't strong enough.
This isn't entirely true. The OSL brand still carries the same mystique it had in Brood War. Lots of people will still tune in just because it's OSL. The players, yes even the eSF players, said in their interviews that qualifying for the OSL was a dream come true. It's not that simple.
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On August 26 2012 04:04 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 03:50 Fionn wrote:On August 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
i have to say, i find the anti-kespa sentiments pretty laughable. kespa+ogn (lest we not forget mbc either), in their own right, has been keeping the starcraft scene running and very financially viable for a long while, and not to mention running a variety of other game leagues (hello LoL). two years in and the gsl still struggles to fill seats. the ESF members themselves, and partners, take on great financial burden to keep foreign interests invested in the GSL by having to fly and house their members all over the world, with only a select few bringing a return on investment.
some of you thinking that kespa having to 'give into' the gsl is ridiculous. it is the situation where gom is at the mercy of kespa/ogn, not the other way around. the osl and pl are the true premier starcraft leagues; korean bw fans will have absolutely zero issue if esf pulls out of osl, for all the better for them to see their own fan interests take the place of esf members who have forfeited their positions. the only recourse is intervention by blizzard, who will do what? ban kespa from sc2? KeSPA/OGN was the premiere Brood War league. They've done shit in SC2. GOM has made their brand global. Go to Dreamhack. Go to MLG. Go anywhere. Tastosis, Mr. Chae and the GOM staff have done a brilliant job making themselves the most prestigious and well known SC2 tournament in the world. Pretty much anyone into competitive SC2 knows the letters GSL. And why are you talking about GOM not filling their seats? There was literally no one watching during the ODT for this season's OSL. They got a huge crowd for the group selections, but that's it. I might say differently if the SC2 OSL was doing gangbusters, but there were nights when there were literally five people there. Code S continually fills up the studio. Yes, it's a small studio, but still waaaaay better than the ODT. And to add to Fionn's post; what needs to be noted here is just that KeSPA/OGN/OSL WAS HUGE, IN SC:BW. In the SC:BW scene they were everything, there is no denying this. However this is not SC:BW, this is SC2. And KeSPA/OGN/OSL doesn't mean anything. Any other tournament like DreamHack, MLG, GSL and so forth is more important to SC2 right now. In this time, in SC2, KeSPA is the newcomers, they cannot afford starting a war against everyone like they did in SC:BW, they aren't strong enough.
They can whenever their players get a grasp on SC2. Trust me OSL winners will get more viewers sooner or later. Dreamhack? They dont care, why would they?
And SC2 in general is probably their secondary objective, they already secured LoL for themselves, so its not like they are going bancrupt tomorrow because 8 players boycotted OSL mid-way.
edit: typos and grammar
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On August 26 2012 04:04 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 03:50 Fionn wrote:On August 26 2012 03:36 a176 wrote:
i have to say, i find the anti-kespa sentiments pretty laughable. kespa+ogn (lest we not forget mbc either), in their own right, has been keeping the starcraft scene running and very financially viable for a long while, and not to mention running a variety of other game leagues (hello LoL). two years in and the gsl still struggles to fill seats. the ESF members themselves, and partners, take on great financial burden to keep foreign interests invested in the GSL by having to fly and house their members all over the world, with only a select few bringing a return on investment.
some of you thinking that kespa having to 'give into' the gsl is ridiculous. it is the situation where gom is at the mercy of kespa/ogn, not the other way around. the osl and pl are the true premier starcraft leagues; korean bw fans will have absolutely zero issue if esf pulls out of osl, for all the better for them to see their own fan interests take the place of esf members who have forfeited their positions. the only recourse is intervention by blizzard, who will do what? ban kespa from sc2? KeSPA/OGN was the premiere Brood War league. They've done shit in SC2. GOM has made their brand global. Go to Dreamhack. Go to MLG. Go anywhere. Tastosis, Mr. Chae and the GOM staff have done a brilliant job making themselves the most prestigious and well known SC2 tournament in the world. Pretty much anyone into competitive SC2 knows the letters GSL. And why are you talking about GOM not filling their seats? There was literally no one watching during the ODT for this season's OSL. They got a huge crowd for the group selections, but that's it. I might say differently if the SC2 OSL was doing gangbusters, but there were nights when there were literally five people there. Code S continually fills up the studio. Yes, it's a small studio, but still waaaaay better than the ODT. And to add to Fionn's post; what needs to be noted here is just that KeSPA/OGN/OSL WAS HUGE, IN SC:BW. In the SC:BW scene they were everything, there is no denying this. However this is not SC:BW, this is SC2. And KeSPA/OGN/OSL doesn't mean anything. Any other tournament like DreamHack, MLG, GSL and so forth is more important to SC2 right now. In this time, in SC2, KeSPA is the newcomers, they cannot afford starting a war against everyone like they did in SC:BW, they aren't strong enough.
The good news (well, not really but in relation to doing business with GOM again) is that the conflict of interest isn't as big as it used to be with MBC Game and OGN Sparkyz no longer in the running.
Those corporations were the two biggest opposed to the GOM Classic before.
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On August 26 2012 04:00 Fionn wrote:
I expect KeSPA to fold sometime today or tomorrow. Would be stupid not to. They had possibly their best group selections of all-time, and Parting made himself out to be a new star with how well he was received by the audience. People want to see Baby/Parting, DRG/Jangbi, Nestea/Fantasy and the rest of the ESF/KeSPA matches. Throw in that they've already done photo shoots with the ESF players, probably finished their top notch opening video, and have the graphics all done, there is no reason they shouldn't just let their players try to qualify for Season 4 of Code A.
Shit, I bet if they wanted, Mr. Chae would give Roro a Code S seed for his impressive games in WCS Korea.
Probably the wisest compromise would look something like, submit the players who don't have playoffs to GSL4 qualifiers, with the understanding that teams in the playoffs (who should not be in GSL4) will receive some seeds into Code S and Code A.
Really, it's absurd to think Kespa would place the qualifiers for the qualifying tournament for the GSL at a priority resembling that of their flagship, the Proleague.
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On August 26 2012 03:21 attackmoveftw wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 03:07 6NR wrote:On August 26 2012 03:05 attackmoveftw wrote:
Did you see the audience for today's WCS finals? It was in a small studio that could only fit a few seats and almost half of them were foreigners. The previous GSL finals were a big embarrassment for GOM because they prepared a huge event but hardly anyone showed up. Apparently, GSL5 will be in Las Vegas or something. All the BW fans are long gone and only a few stragglers are left at PlayXP and Fomos. During the final-final sets of Squirtle vs Creator, the major topic of discussion at PlayXP was whether height is genetic or environmental. lol
SC2 is dead in Korea already. That's quite a reach. Proof? I presume you can read Korean? Goto playxp and read the posts that correspond to when the finals were on. HereGoto thisisgame and read how many posts are about SC2. Today was WCS finals right? Almost none. Go rewatch today's finals when the camera pans across the audience. Search the internet 해운대 gsl or something like that. http://www.fomos.kr/gnuboard4/bbs/board.php?bo_table=talk_gossip&wr_id=585996&page=6
There's nothing in those sites to prove your point. And it was a PvP to death matchup, so it's quite understandable.
I don't know the gound realities or the backroom sidestories. But you are making the claims, that is why I am asking out of curiousity if there is anything to prove what you are saying.
I personallly think Kespa won't backdown, but I suddenly realize that they can lose this battle to prepare stronger for the war. What's a few embarassment now and save Kespa/ESF OSL, and get the necessary experience and be the stronger organization later. At least that's how I see Kespa's option. And if they indeed make that decision, I hope they make it before midnight so I'm still up and can still edit it here.
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The saddest thing in all of this, which seems like everybody is missing, is that no matter how or when this drama might be resolved, there's absolutely no way it will be forgotten by either side, and you can be 100% sure that a honest and peaceful cooperation is completely out the window for at least a couple years. No way this is good for viewers.
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On August 26 2012 04:21 Sethronu wrote:
The saddest thing in all of this, which seems like everybody is missing, is that no matter how or when this drama might be resolved, there's absolutely no way it will be forgotten by either side, and you can be 100% sure that a honest and peaceful cooperation is completely out the window for at least a couple years. No way this is good for viewers.
It would have never been in the first place. At the end of the day, an organization like KeSPA is always looking out for themselves.
I can same the same for practically anything, the NHL and their shareholders versus the NHLPA. You name it. The list goes on and on.
At the end of the day when you take out all the fluff what does it really come down to? Money. Dollar dollar bill y'all.
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On August 26 2012 04:21 Sethronu wrote:
The saddest thing in all of this, which seems like everybody is missing, is that no matter how or when this drama might be resolved, there's absolutely no way it will be forgotten by either side, and you can be 100% sure that a honest and peaceful cooperation is completely out the window for at least a couple years. No way this is good for viewers.
It's better than the alternative, GOM dieing.
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On August 26 2012 04:00 Fionn wrote:
I expect KeSPA to fold sometime today or tomorrow. Would be stupid not to. They had possibly their best group selections of all-time, and Parting made himself out to be a new star with how well he was received by the audience. People want to see Baby/Parting, DRG/Jangbi, Nestea/Fantasy and the rest of the ESF/KeSPA matches. Throw in that they've already done photo shoots with the ESF players, probably finished their top notch opening video, and have the graphics all done, there is no reason they shouldn't just let their players try to qualify for Season 4 of Code A.
Shit, I bet if they wanted, Mr. Chae would give Roro a Code S seed for his impressive games in WCS Korea.
In the first thread, GOM said they offered 2 code S seeds, 2 up/down seeds, and 4 code A seeds
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On August 26 2012 04:00 Fionn wrote:
I expect KeSPA to fold sometime today or tomorrow. Would be stupid not to. They had possibly their best group selections of all-time, and Parting made himself out to be a new star with how well he was received by the audience. People want to see Baby/Parting, DRG/Jangbi, Nestea/Fantasy and the rest of the ESF/KeSPA matches. Throw in that they've already done photo shoots with the ESF players, probably finished their top notch opening video, and have the graphics all done, there is no reason they shouldn't just let their players try to qualify for Season 4 of Code A.
Shit, I bet if they wanted, Mr. Chae would give Roro a Code S seed for his impressive games in WCS Korea.
They were going to give them 2 code s seeds, as well as up&down and code a seeds...8 total, i think.
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On August 26 2012 04:33 Prplppleatr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 26 2012 04:21 Sethronu wrote:
The saddest thing in all of this, which seems like everybody is missing, is that no matter how or when this drama might be resolved, there's absolutely no way it will be forgotten by either side, and you can be 100% sure that a honest and peaceful cooperation is completely out the window for at least a couple years. No way this is good for viewers. It's better than the alternative, GOM dieing.
Why would that ever happen?
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EPT
