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On August 25 2012 04:53 Adreme wrote:
This is probably the closest thing to a fold that you can get from KESPA. There was no way they were going to completely give the image that they caved and just go to the Code A qualifiers this season so they just announced they will next season in order to save face.
I don't think it's a fold just yet. KeSPA is posturing at the pot to see ESF's reaction. KeSPA may look like they are about to fold (announcing they will go in S5) but the moment ESF breathes a sigh of relief (re-enter into OSL) they will snap call (go back to their old tricks).
However, if Blizzard (the tournament director) gets involved and states that KeSPA made forward motion with his cards and therefore folds (has to participate in S5) or else they will face a punishment by the tournament director (banning).
Gotta love poker references!
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For many SC2 fans this is their first taste of the kind of BS KeSPA brings to esports in Korea. I'm glad ESF and GOM stood their ground this time.
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On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote:On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side.
I believe they don't have a union or something similar, because they are just kids, impossible to play politics with big companies. If they are really fed up with KeSPA's behavior, the only thing to do is to retire from proleague teams and then join some GSL teams.
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This must be uite the humbling experience for Kespa
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On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote:On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side.
Who is them ? Players ? If so, I really doubt they hate KeSPA or they might not like the organization but I doubt they have a problem with their players. EDIT : Or do them refer to current kespa players ?
SC2 doesn't need kespa to be successful atm, Kespa wasn't there before and it was fine. Kespa tried to make a move to put themself in a position of power in SC2 and they failed. They will have to learn to deal with a different status than the one they had in BW.
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On August 25 2012 05:08 ElephantBaby wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote:On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote:On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side. I believe they don't have a union or something similar, because they are just kids, impossible to play politics with big companies. If they are really fed up with KeSPA's behavior, the only thing to do is to retire from proleague teams and then join some GSL teams.
To be honest, at this point, all the "dissenters," or "dishwashers" from KeSPA created/defected to ESF/GSL/Slayers. The rest who stayed probably have other reasons, or like you implied, have absolutely no idea what's going on because they were too busy practicing under strict routines.
I'm seriously hoping it's the latter. ;_;
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They shouldn't play in the OSL still. Unless Kespa have agreed to participate in the next GSL, why should ESF participate in the next (current) OSL?
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On August 25 2012 05:10 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote:On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote:On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side. Who is them ? Players ? If so, I really doubt they hate KeSPA or they might not like the organization but I doubt they have a problem with their players. EDIT : Or do them refer to current kespa players ? SC2 doesn't need kespa to be successful atm, Kespa wasn't there before and it was fine. Kespa tried to make a move to put themself in a position of power in SC2 and they failed. They will have to learn to deal with a different status than the one they had in BW.
He's referring to the KeSPA players themselves and he's right. Plenty have spoken out about the practices of KeSPA in the past (and even at this current situation) and have even stated they need a players union.
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On August 25 2012 05:10 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote:On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote:On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side. Who is them ? Players ? If so, I really doubt they hate KeSPA or they might not like the organization but I doubt they have a problem with their players. EDIT : Or do them refer to current kespa players ? SC2 doesn't need kespa to be successful atm, Kespa wasn't there before and it was fine. Kespa tried to make a move to put themself in a position of power in SC2 and they failed. They will have to learn to deal with a different status than the one they had in BW.
Kespa has good intentions (theyre non profit right?). They sponsored T8 for christ's sake. Some of them disagree obviously but in the long run Kespa was great for BW at least. It centralized the pro scene (at the same time left foreign scene behind). Pushed for gaming licenses which gave each person on a team legitimacy. They want to keep the sport running and moving.. but on their own terms.
Good intentions, bad execution some of the time. Meh just my 2cents
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AWESOME!
So basically esports federation / GSL has the power now :D The tables are turned.
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On August 25 2012 05:15 Inverse1 wrote:
They shouldn't play in the OSL still. Unless Kespa have agreed to participate in the next GSL, why should ESF participate in the next (current) OSL?
Because there's a BIG difference between not participating in GSL code B and pulling out of the OSL.
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On August 25 2012 05:20 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
AWESOME!
So basically esports federation / GSL has the power now :D The tables are turned.
don't think so yet, they'll have to push OSL/kespa more or this could happen again.
On August 25 2012 05:18 Kal_rA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:10 SpiZe wrote:On August 25 2012 05:04 WArped wrote:On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote:On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work? Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side. Who is them ? Players ? If so, I really doubt they hate KeSPA or they might not like the organization but I doubt they have a problem with their players. EDIT : Or do them refer to current kespa players ? SC2 doesn't need kespa to be successful atm, Kespa wasn't there before and it was fine. Kespa tried to make a move to put themself in a position of power in SC2 and they failed. They will have to learn to deal with a different status than the one they had in BW. Kespa has good intentions (theyre non profit right?). They sponsored T8 for christ's sake. Some of them disagree obviously but in the long run Kespa was great for BW at least. It centralized the pro scene (at the same time left foreign scene behind). Pushed for gaming licenses which gave each person on a team legitimacy. They want to keep the sport running and moving.. but on their own terms. Good intentions, bad execution some of the time. Meh just my 2cents
"non profit" != "good intentions"
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On August 25 2012 05:20 Novalisk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:15 Inverse1 wrote:
They shouldn't play in the OSL still. Unless Kespa have agreed to participate in the next GSL, why should ESF participate in the next (current) OSL? Because there's a BIG difference between not participating in GSL code B and pulling out of the OSL.
Aye.
The analogue would be, KESPA players were seeded into Code S and played in qualifiers for Code S (many qualifying), the round of 32 was played, the round of 16 group ceremonies happened, and then KESPA decided to remove their players from the tournament.
In reality, KESPA declined to submit its players to the qualifying tournament for the qualifying tournament for the GSL. They didn't yank the rug out from under an ongoing tournament.
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KeSPa just doesn't get it, do they? The point is that the players should have more rights to decide when and where they will play. KeSPa is like an old media syndicate who is fighting to maintain relevance. Whatever, so far this doesn't change anything....Let's just keep waiting to see what happens next.
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Can someone explain to me what's going on please. Who's KESPA, what's the difference between OSL and GSL, and who is the esports federation?
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On August 25 2012 05:24 Severedevil wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:20 Novalisk wrote:On August 25 2012 05:15 Inverse1 wrote:
They shouldn't play in the OSL still. Unless Kespa have agreed to participate in the next GSL, why should ESF participate in the next (current) OSL? Because there's a BIG difference between not participating in GSL code B and pulling out of the OSL. Aye. The analogue would be, KESPA players were seeded into Code S and played in qualifiers for Code S (many qualifying), the round of 32 was played, the round of 16 group ceremonies happened, and then KESPA decided to remove their players from the tournament. In reality, KESPA declined to submit its players to the qualifying tournament for the qualifying tournament for the GSL. They didn't yank the rug out from under an ongoing tournament.
Do you guys think that KeSPA would back down if ESF said they would pull out from the next tournament? ESF had to do something extreme to get KeSPA's attention.
As it stands now, KeSPA probably would make more money running their tournaments only and not participate in any other tournaments. If ESF said they would pull out in the next tournament KeSPA wouldn't care.
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But they are still not participating in GSL Season 4? So what exactly changed? To me it seems like nothing.
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What a pathetic play they do there lol :s
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On August 25 2012 05:31 Odoakar wrote:
But they are still not participating in GSL Season 4? So what exactly changed? To me it seems like nothing.
It is just a statement clarification, not modification. On surface, pretty consistent from KeSPA's part, can't say the same for ESF though.
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On August 25 2012 05:30 Pantaji wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 05:24 Severedevil wrote:On August 25 2012 05:20 Novalisk wrote:On August 25 2012 05:15 Inverse1 wrote:
They shouldn't play in the OSL still. Unless Kespa have agreed to participate in the next GSL, why should ESF participate in the next (current) OSL? Because there's a BIG difference between not participating in GSL code B and pulling out of the OSL. Aye. The analogue would be, KESPA players were seeded into Code S and played in qualifiers for Code S (many qualifying), the round of 32 was played, the round of 16 group ceremonies happened, and then KESPA decided to remove their players from the tournament. In reality, KESPA declined to submit its players to the qualifying tournament for the qualifying tournament for the GSL. They didn't yank the rug out from under an ongoing tournament. Do you guys think that KeSPA would back down if ESF said they would pull out from the next tournament? ESF had to do something extreme to get KeSPA's attention. As it stands now, KeSPA probably would make more money running their tournaments only and not participate in any other tournaments. If ESF said they would pull out in the next tournament KeSPA wouldn't care.
I never said ESF didn't make the correct choice. Not participating in this and next season's Code B is, in my opinion, on par with dropping out of the OSL.
If it's just 1 Code B being missed out, then it's not a big deal in comparison. 2 is a different story altogether, and that's made the OSL boycott justified.
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EPT
