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On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors.
They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though.
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On August 25 2012 04:06 VManOfMana wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 03:49 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 03:46 bearhug wrote:On August 24 2012 22:16 pencil_ethics wrote:
Right now the prevailing opinion in the Korean community is "Don't fall for KeSPA's bull****, this is how the GOMTV Classic got wiped off the face of the planet; since they're not participating in this season's GSL, keep the Federation out of this season's Starleague".
Nobody trusts KeSPA over there, whether they are Brood War fans or StarCraft II fans. Are you sure? or just you do not trust? I can vouch for him. Just make yourself an account in any of the korean community sites and ask what they think of KeSPa. They will answer you the best can with their broken english. Most will just say "fucking kespa" though. Korean forums have forever been a cesspool of rage. Korean netizen translations often were a source of amusement on TeamLiquid reports. It is hardly an objectce source of information or evidence.
so are english forums (tl/reddit) on playxp or dcinside sc2gallery in terms of information and amusement
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ESF better announce that they will be pulling OSL players out till next season as well... as a person that wants to see BW vs. SC2, I still believe that ESF needs to treat OSL like KESPA treats GSL. Keep the players pulled, next season GSL and OSL we can wait for.
Kespa needs to be shown that it isn't going to do this corrupt power hungry crap here anymore... we're not BW peons, we're alot bigger internationally than BW ever was, and playing field has changed.
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On August 25 2012 04:40 MCXD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though.
It is impossible but I would like to see just the OSL and Proleague. OGN can do the Korean broadcast. GOM would do all the streams and foreign broadcasts.
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On August 25 2012 04:40 stew_ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:06 VManOfMana wrote:On August 25 2012 03:49 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 03:46 bearhug wrote:On August 24 2012 22:16 pencil_ethics wrote:
Right now the prevailing opinion in the Korean community is "Don't fall for KeSPA's bull****, this is how the GOMTV Classic got wiped off the face of the planet; since they're not participating in this season's GSL, keep the Federation out of this season's Starleague".
Nobody trusts KeSPA over there, whether they are Brood War fans or StarCraft II fans. Are you sure? or just you do not trust? I can vouch for him. Just make yourself an account in any of the korean community sites and ask what they think of KeSPa. They will answer you the best can with their broken english. Most will just say "fucking kespa" though. Korean forums have forever been a cesspool of rage. Korean netizen translations often were a source of amusement on TeamLiquid reports. It is hardly an objectce source of information or evidence. so are english forums (tl/reddit) on playxp or dcinside sc2gallery in terms of information and amusement
Shhh shhh shhh what are you doing?! Trying to provoke a cross-site war? ㅋㅋㅋㅋㅋ
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This is a nice promise, lets see if they keep it.
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If Kespa do not behave Blizzard should just ban them. Maybe then they can go ahead and try to monopolize LoL instead.
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On August 25 2012 04:42 NuKE[vZ] wrote:
ESF better announce that they will be pulling OSL players out till next season as well... as a person that wants to see BW vs. SC2, I still believe that ESF needs to treat OSL like KESPA treats GSL. Keep the players pulled, next season GSL and OSL we can wait for.
Kespa needs to be shown that it isn't going to do this corrupt power hungry crap here anymore... we're not BW peons, we're alot bigger internationally than BW ever was, and playing field has changed.
I have no idea but is GOMTV SC2 revenue greater than KESPA BW during their prime?
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On August 24 2012 22:16 rasnj wrote:
Well GSL season 5 won't be until after this upcoming OSL (so not until November). If the ESF teams wanted to match the KeSPA decision, they should announce that they will keep out of this OSL, but participate in the next one.
I agree.
Hopefully, Kespa will stick to this decision, and both sides can move forwards amicably.
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On August 25 2012 04:40 MCXD wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though.
Well, loss of Kespa would not ruin the scene, the scene survived without Kespa. Still the former BW scene is a nice addition.
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On August 25 2012 04:42 NuKE[vZ] wrote:
ESF better announce that they will be pulling OSL players out till next season as well... as a person that wants to see BW vs. SC2, I still believe that ESF needs to treat OSL like KESPA treats GSL. Keep the players pulled, next season GSL and OSL we can wait for.
Kespa needs to be shown that it isn't going to do this corrupt power hungry crap here anymore... we're not BW peons, we're alot bigger internationally than BW ever was, and playing field has changed.
I think the mass boycott by ESF players was enough to show them they don't have the power to do anything they want, plus the mass shit-storm they have created if any of this is being read by KeSPA, let them have their OSL with GSL players this season. They have used scheduling problems as an excuse, they have lost that playing card. Lets see what happens at the start of GSL season 5. I would rather see less drama and more fair play rather than creating more tension and possibly ruining the chances of SC2 in Korea when it's theoretically only just started.
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On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors.
You're right - they're competitors. So by your logic ESF should do everything to screw over KeSPA, aka not play OSL.
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I hope the ESF players join osl, but announce that they will withdraw middle tournament if Kespa does not let the A-teamers participate in GSL season 5.
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This is probably the closest thing to a fold that you can get from KESPA. There was no way they were going to completely give the image that they caved and just go to the Code A qualifiers this season so they just announced they will next season in order to save face.
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On August 25 2012 04:50 Sandermatt wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:40 MCXD wrote:On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though. Well, loss of Kespa would not ruin the scene, the scene survived without Kespa. Still the former BW scene is a nice addition.
I agree. Kinda surprising how many foreigners tend to underestimate the size of their own scene. Koreans are kinda envious of what you guys have contributed so far, which led some to argue that they need KeSPA to 'protect' the korean esports scene, which is a load of bull at this point. Segregating esports based on nationality in these times is just stupid, IMO.
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So why can't the players themselves decide?
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On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide?
Because they're employees.
Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work?
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On August 25 2012 04:51 FairForever wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. You're right - they're competitors. So by your logic ESF should do everything to screw over KeSPA, aka not play OSL.
If my logic were truly that nonsensical, you would have me suggesting that KeSPA assassinate Nestea. ESF isn't GOMTV, why should they want to do anything to harm KeSPA? They should be more concerned about their players' opportunities, which means letting them play in the OSL. If they didn't want to play in the OSL, it would be just as harmless as KeSPA players not joining the GSL. I wouldn't bat an eye, because it's not a big deal at all. Leaving a league in the middle of it is different, and it's not something I'd expect from a group of people who admonished Naniwa for not living up to professional standards.
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On August 25 2012 05:00 Condor Hero wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:56 ChromeBallz wrote:
So why can't the players themselves decide? Because they're employees. Why can't the burger flipper at McDonald's decide what shifts he wants to work?
Most of them hate KeSPA iirc, they can boycott them if they really screw things over in the future - and I hope they will, I would think most of them want SC2 to be successful and they realise they need GOM to do that, so hope they are on GOM's side.
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On August 25 2012 04:54 JiPrime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:50 Sandermatt wrote:On August 25 2012 04:40 MCXD wrote:On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. They don't have to be even, but the loss of either company (but particularly GOM, atm) would completely ruin the scene, so some cooperation is necessary. KeSPA doesn't see that though. Well, loss of Kespa would not ruin the scene, the scene survived without Kespa. Still the former BW scene is a nice addition. I agree. Kinda surprising how many foreigners tend to underestimate the size of their own scene. Koreans are kinda envious of what you guys have contributed so far, which led some to argue that they need KeSPA to 'protect' the korean esports scene, which is a load of bull at this point. Segregating esports based on nationality in these times is just stupid, IMO.
So true. The SC2 scene was build in paralel with the still alive BW scene, runed by KeSPA. And Guess what? BW pro-scene has finished.
Korean SC2 scene doesn`t need KeSPA. Foreigner SC2 scene doesn`t need KeSPA. At this point, KeSPA players are drop in the ocean for the current scene. The addition of another 8-15 Code A-code S players will not make big difference.
On August 25 2012 05:04 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On August 25 2012 04:51 FairForever wrote:On August 25 2012 04:34 oBlade wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2. No, because the OS2L is already in progress. There's a difference between saying ahead of time that you won't go to a league and messing up a league in the middle of it by taking half of the players out. On August 25 2012 04:29 JiPrime wrote:On August 25 2012 04:25 Seraphic wrote:
GOM isn't going to die, simply because Blizzard is there now to prevent KeSPA from doing whatever the hell they want.
They pull out of OSL is just the same as what KeSPA did with GSL Season 4. If they continue to do this, it's going to turn into BW all over again with the bad blood between the 2.
This is a massive crap shoot. They won't go out of business, but they will always be treated as "That other league" or worse, even considered as an amateur prizefight if KeSPA is left unchecked. As an avid supporter of GOM, I won't have that. Either both are playing on an even field or fuck everything. Why do they have to be on an even field? They're competitors. You're right - they're competitors. So by your logic ESF should do everything to screw over KeSPA, aka not play OSL. If my logic were truly that nonsensical, you would have me suggesting that KeSPA assassinate Nestea. ESF isn't GOMTV, why should they want to do anything to harm KeSPA? They should be more concerned about their players' opportunities, which means letting them play in the OSL. If they didn't want to play in the OSL, it would be just as harmless as KeSPA players not joining the GSL. I wouldn't bat an eye, because it's not a big deal at all. Leaving a league in the middle of it is different, and it's not something I'd expect from a group of people who admonished Naniwa for not living up to professional standards.
What is ESF if not a common ground for a few teams? Their players have the decision power, and they chose to not participate in the OSL any futher. Case finished.
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EPT
