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On August 24 2012 23:25 FFW_Rude wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:21 JustPassingBy wrote:
Even assuming you (and I know that is not the case, just saying for people who might) do not believe the people saying ESF is sort of like a player union, there are two things that should struck your mind:
1. Nestea signed it as a player representative
2. MC joined the "treaty" even though he has no legal oblication to Okay but what's a representative ? I just thought that the OP listed the teams that were included in ESF and so i didn't understand why nestea was there and not a coach for each team. Maybe it "strucks your mind" but there are subtilities that i don't understand.
From what I understand, ESF is also representing the interests of the team management and team coaches.
However, unlike Kespa, the players also have a voice in the decisions (as you can see from upset Kespa players who wanted to participate the upcoming GSL, which Kespa does not allow).
All in all, I'd just see ESF as a sort of organisation, where - when all teams and players agree on something - they can unite to proclaim with one voice to give their opinion more weight.
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On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little...
GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it.
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Isn't Kespa the organization that screwed things over more than once in the past and made a huge deal out of SC2 being the biggest evil on the planet?
It seems to me that they're still butthurt over people wanting to transition to SC2, and they can't stand having competition in the scene. "Just deserves" is a phrase that comes to my mind.
This is just an outsider's perspective though.
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On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it.
I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body.
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On August 24 2012 23:36 ChromeBallz wrote:
Isn't Kespa the organization that screwed things over more than once in the past and made a huge deal out of SC2 being the biggest evil on the planet?
It seems to me that they're still butthurt over people wanting to transition to SC2, and they can't stand having competition in the scene. "Just deserves" is a phrase that comes to my mind.
This is just an outsider's perspective though.
kespa has done some good, and lots of bad
this is some of the bad, they like to monopolize the scene, they limit global growth in an effort to make money and run the show in korea
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On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body.
When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die.
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On August 24 2012 23:37 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body. When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die.
...you mean GOM?
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50196 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:37 Zane wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body. When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die.
why the fuck would anywone want the OSL to go into the ashes, yes I know you are doing a bit but still, what the fuck guys.
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On August 24 2012 23:39 shArklight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:37 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body. When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die. ...you mean GOM?
Nah, ESF. GOM's not even putting up a fight, it's all ESF.
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On August 24 2012 23:29 Weirdkid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:20 pSeUd0 wrote:
Do we have any reliable information on the nature of the apparent scheduling problems? Any insight would be much appreciated as I really want to believe that KeSPA is not doing this out of a gamble for market share.
If KeSPA is really worried about the situation in which one of the "KeSPA-players" would have to choose between a default loss in OSL in order to participate in his GSL match or a default loss in GSL in order to be able to play his OSL match and there is no way in hell to resolve the scheduling issue then every "non-KeSPA-player" faces the same potential issue.
Therefore, assuming that there really is a potential conflict for players participating in both leagues (i.e. GSL & OGN matches at the same day and the same time), the reasoning of KeSPA to pull out of GSL4 qualifiers equivalently holds true for any player who deliberately decided to pull out of OSL (at least for this season).
Now, if I accept the reasoning behind KeSPA´s decision to pull "their" players out of GSL4 then on the same token I have to accept the decision of eSF to pull "their" guys out of OSL this season.
Following this logic I would expect to see neither of the two parties back down for the upcoming season as long as the scheduling issue is not resolved. The best (only?) thing to would be to "pick up the phone" and reschedule the problematic matches so that is reason for this mess is resolved.
On a personal note:
Whether it was a hardline commercial decision by KeSPA or out of honest concern due to an unresolvable (and here I assume both KeSPA & GOM actually do try their best to resolve this) scheduling issue, eSF should stay out of OSL. If the latter is true then in order to set incentives to harmonize schedules for next season and in the other case to establish the industry standard that hardline policy is more harmful for every involved party than cooperation.
And I say this as an economist looking at the long term. As a SC-fan I would like to see the scheduling issue resolved by Monday and a full blown OSL next to a full blown GSL as a result.
The play offs begin on 1 September, and the preliminaries are on 5, 6 September, and they feel that it'd be really stressful for the teams and players. This is an important time for the players to produce results after the four months of dual tournament, and it's also the last Starcraft 1 tournament, so they want to have a perfect ending. As to why they are able to play in WCS and WCG, those are relatively short tournaments, being about one month. They also felt that taking part in WCS will not affect the quality of SPL. Though some parts may clash (like the finals of the WCS and the Asian Qualifiers), there's already an understanding with the SPL teams. As for GSL, it's a 2-3 month tournament, and there's a link from one season to another, and so it's not an easy situation. It's mainly the clash with SPL.
Thank you for the information.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50196 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:40 SarcasmMonster wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:39 shArklight wrote:On August 24 2012 23:37 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body. When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die. ...you mean GOM? Nah, ESF. GOM's not even putting up a fight, it's all ESF.
and OGN is putting up a fight?
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On August 24 2012 23:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:37 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body. When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die. why the fuck would anywone want the OSL to go into the ashes, yes I know you are doing a bit but still, what the fuck guys.
I wouldn't but we are playing the batman quoting game. Why so serious?
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It's cute to see people clamor to predict GOM's bright future in the face of a Kespa backlash.
Follow the money people.
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Disband KESPA, all KESPA players free agents, assimilate into GOM. Done.
Or KESPA disbands, all KESPA players free agents, Boxer creates KESPA v2 and has friendly competition with GOM, friendly rivalry=good for everyone. Done.
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ALLEYCAT BLUES50196 Posts
On August 24 2012 23:41 ImNightmare wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:40 BLinD-RawR wrote:On August 24 2012 23:37 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body. When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die. why the fuck would anywone want the OSL to go into the ashes, yes I know you are doing a bit but still, what the fuck guys. I wouldn't but we are playing the batman quoting game. Why so serious?
because some people just want to watch the world burn.
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On August 24 2012 23:41 mijellin wrote:
Disband KESPA, all KESPA players free agents, assimilate into GOM. Done.
Or KESPA disbands, all KESPA players free agents, Boxer creates KESPA v2 and has friendly competition with GOM, friendly rivalry=good for everyone. Done.
Nice solution, what about sponsors?
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On August 24 2012 23:41 mijellin wrote:
Disband KESPA, all KESPA players free agents, assimilate into GOM. Done.
Or KESPA disbands, all KESPA players free agents, Boxer creates KESPA v2 and has friendly competition with GOM, friendly rivalry=good for everyone. Done.
I don't think anybody would have the money to support their players.
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On August 24 2012 23:39 shArklight wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 23:37 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:36 Zane wrote:On August 24 2012 23:29 ImNightmare wrote:On August 24 2012 23:28 Torte de Lini wrote:
A storm's a comin' people are gonna wonder how can you take so much and leave so little... GOM merely adopted the eSports, KeSPA was born in it. I wonder what would break first..Kespa's spirit or their body. When the OSL is ashes, they have eSF's permission to die. ...you mean GOM?
Will this not depend on how populair Sc2 can become ? I doubt it's ever going to reach BW, if not then what will Kespa do ? Settle with less ? Reach out ? Pull the plug on Sc2 ?
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I think ESF players will play in this OSL with the GSL5 commitment from Kespa.
1) To not do so will seems petty (pulling out of a tournament in the Ro16 is infinitely worse than not participating in qualifiers, no matter how you spin it.)
2) Quite frankly I don't think they can survive in Korea if it really becomes Kespa vs. GOM straight up.
3) With the commitment, it doesn't look like they are getting pushed around as much.
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On August 24 2012 23:20 pSeUd0 wrote:
Do we have any reliable information on the nature of the apparent scheduling problems? Any insight would be much appreciated as I really want to believe that KeSPA is not doing this out of a gamble for market share.
If KeSPA is really worried about the situation in which one of the "KeSPA-players" would have to choose between a default loss in OSL in order to participate in his GSL match or a default loss in GSL in order to be able to play his OSL match and there is no way in hell to resolve the scheduling issue then every "non-KeSPA-player" faces the same potential issue.
Therefore, assuming that there really is a potential conflict for players participating in both leagues (i.e. GSL & OGN matches at the same day and the same time), the reasoning of KeSPA to pull out of GSL4 qualifiers equivalently holds true for any player who deliberately decided to pull out of OSL (at least for this season).
Now, if I accept the reasoning behind KeSPA´s decision to pull "their" players out of GSL4 then on the same token I have to accept the decision of eSF to pull "their" guys out of OSL this season.
Following this logic I would expect to see neither of the two parties back down for the upcoming season as long as the scheduling issue is not resolved. The best (only?) thing to would be to "pick up the phone" and reschedule the problematic matches so that is reason for this mess is resolved.
On a personal note:
Whether it was a hardline commercial decision by KeSPA or out of honest concern due to an unresolvable (and here I assume both KeSPA & GOM actually do try their best to resolve this) scheduling issue, eSF should stay out of OSL. If the latter is true then in order to set incentives to harmonize schedules for next season and in the other case to establish the industry standard that hardline policy is more harmful for every involved party than cooperation.
And I say this as an economist looking at the long term. As a SC-fan I would like to see the scheduling issue resolved by Monday and a full blown OSL next to a full blown GSL as a result.
Not sure on the specifics but GOM is doing their rd 16, all the way to the finals or something like that at IPL, in a week's time. That could've conflicted with whatever KeSPA had planned with their OSL.
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EPT
