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On August 24 2012 22:18 blamekilly wrote:
I still think it was a dick move by the esports federation for pulling their players during a tournament that was still in progress. Kespa at least had the decency to announce ahead of time that their players would not participate in the GSL qualifiers.
Even with the recent announcement of Kespa players being able to compete in GSL 5, I don't see this ending well. eSF are showing that they are an uncontrollable bunch that will let their emotions control their actions. Who says something like this won't happen again?
I think it was a show of power, like we arent afraid to cut up your throat with no regrets.
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On August 24 2012 22:17 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:09 OpticalShot wrote:Jeez, now will all of you put your pitchforks down? As I stated in the earlier thread (of the same issue) it was just a business decision due to lack of detailed schedule planning (source: Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate) and they clearly stated, at least publicly, that they're not trying to create a feud with GOM or the ESF (source: Another Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate). Both of these Fomos articles popped up overnight or something, I didn't see them yesterday. As linked many times, according to This DES Article, KeSPA stated on the 24th (today) that they will send eligible players from ALL teams (stated explicitly in the article as "all teams") to participate in the next GSL (next as in Season 5). They also added that they don't want any more tension in the scene, but that's most likely a PR statement lol. It's not as simple as a scheduling conflict. You must be have the foresight of a blindman if you really think it was only based on the scheduling conflict. As per Fxopenboss's blog, yes GOM was sluggish in getting out their schedule to KESPA. But if you read ESF's official response, it was apparent that GOM was willing to compromise to get the KESPA players in, including giving seeds to KESPA players, etc. KESPA simply tried to undercut GOM and gambled the backlash wouldn't be as bad as it would be. Well, the backlash was more than KESPA imagined, so KESPA, to save face, puts out a statement to say they will participate in GSL season 5. At this point in time, probably to save face, KESPA won't reverse its decision on GSL season 4. I don't know why you are such an ardent KESPA supporter. They are simply doing harm to SC2 and e-sports.
I don't know why is anyone such an ardent eSF supporter. KeSPA at least has actual reasons for not playing in GSL s4, whether you like them or agree with them is up to you, but they DO have reasons other than 'haha lets screw with GOM'. The reaction from eSF is not only 100% aimed at assuming the worst from KeSPA without giving them ANY chance whatsoever, but also terrible towards the fans and all the supporting crews who make the tournaments happen - pulling out HALF the lineup of a major tournament a week before it happens, after going through preliminaries and group draws etc, is simply retarded. There's literally no way anyone with a shred of logic can be supporting eSF's decision in this while blaming KeSPA for trying to 'powerplay' over GOM.
But yeah, SC community these days is awesome. xd
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On August 24 2012 22:20 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:19 X3GoldDot wrote:On August 24 2012 22:07 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:57 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:55 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:52 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:47 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2? Do you know how to read? The ESF contacted EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the OSL and asked them if they were okay with this. They unanimously supported the decision. Notice how the statement was made by Nestea as well. Do you really think Kespa went through the same process? ESF is a PLAYERS association, Kespa is NOT. You think the players would willingly turn down the chance to compete in a televised individual league, something they've probably been wanting since they became pros? Why wouldn't they if they think the alternative is death of GSL, their teams, and assimilation by KeSPA, who would restrict access to International tournaments? Why would they care if GSL died? If they got picked up by kespa teams they would make more money and play on tv. I can't believe the little guy complex you people all have. It's honestly making me uncomfortable to even post here. I shouldn't even take my time responding to a guy named "BrosephBrostar" but I suppose I will since you seem to be pretty ignorant. These players made shit, nothing, nilch, nada, when they were on KeSPA before. That's why they left. After making money in GSL and having the opportunity to freely play in whatever International tournaments they choose, why would they EVER want to go back to a repressive organization like KeSPA and earn shit money again? If KeSPA teams were so loaded with cash and sponsorship opportunities they wouldn't be down to 7 teams and wouldn't have lost over half its progaming base in the last two years. does nada mean nothing?? yep.
weird, in liquipedia it says it means 'its me'
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On August 24 2012 22:17 xelnaga_empire wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:09 OpticalShot wrote:Jeez, now will all of you put your pitchforks down? As I stated in the earlier thread (of the same issue) it was just a business decision due to lack of detailed schedule planning (source: Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate) and they clearly stated, at least publicly, that they're not trying to create a feud with GOM or the ESF (source: Another Fomos Source, Not Allowed to Translate). Both of these Fomos articles popped up overnight or something, I didn't see them yesterday. As linked many times, according to This DES Article, KeSPA stated on the 24th (today) that they will send eligible players from ALL teams (stated explicitly in the article as "all teams") to participate in the next GSL (next as in Season 5). They also added that they don't want any more tension in the scene, but that's most likely a PR statement lol. It's not as simple as a scheduling conflict. You must be have the foresight of a blindman if you really think it was only based on the scheduling conflict. As per Fxopenboss's blog, yes GOM was sluggish in getting out their schedule to KESPA. But if you read ESF's official response, it was apparent that GOM was willing to compromise to get the KESPA players in, including giving seeds to KESPA players, etc. KESPA simply tried to undercut GOM and gambled the backlash wouldn't be as bad as it would be. Well, the backlash was more than KESPA imagined, so KESPA, to save face, puts out a statement to say they will participate in GSL season 5. At this point in time, probably to save face, KESPA won't reverse its decision on GSL season 4. I don't know why you are such an ardent KESPA supporter. They are simply doing harm to SC2 and e-sports.
To be fair to Kespa, I think the seeds weren't mentioned to them. At least that's what was mentioned by a Kespa guy in one of the interviews that was held after Kespa's first announcement and before ESF's announcement.
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I REALLY WANT TO KNOW:
Did Nestea and EsF really got the consent of every GSL player (except Oz) to pull out from OSL?
non-forcefully by GOM?
IF THIS IS TRUE:
Respect to EsF, all of you should worship Nestea.
and !@#$ Kespa
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On August 24 2012 22:19 X3GoldDot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:07 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:57 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:55 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:52 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:47 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2? Do you know how to read? The ESF contacted EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the OSL and asked them if they were okay with this. They unanimously supported the decision. Notice how the statement was made by Nestea as well. Do you really think Kespa went through the same process? ESF is a PLAYERS association, Kespa is NOT. You think the players would willingly turn down the chance to compete in a televised individual league, something they've probably been wanting since they became pros? Why wouldn't they if they think the alternative is death of GSL, their teams, and assimilation by KeSPA, who would restrict access to International tournaments? Why would they care if GSL died? If they got picked up by kespa teams they would make more money and play on tv. I can't believe the little guy complex you people all have. It's honestly making me uncomfortable to even post here. I shouldn't even take my time responding to a guy named "BrosephBrostar" but I suppose I will since you seem to be pretty ignorant. These players made shit, nothing, nilch, nada, when they were on KeSPA before. That's why they left. After making money in GSL and having the opportunity to freely play in whatever International tournaments they choose, why would they EVER want to go back to a repressive organization like KeSPA and earn shit money again? If KeSPA teams were so loaded with cash and sponsorship opportunities they wouldn't be down to 7 teams and wouldn't have lost over half its progaming base in the last two years. does nada mean nothing??
it means 6 osl and msl titles oh snap.
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On August 24 2012 22:21 X3GoldDot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:20 bo1b wrote:On August 24 2012 22:19 X3GoldDot wrote:On August 24 2012 22:07 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:57 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:55 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:52 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:47 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2? Do you know how to read? The ESF contacted EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the OSL and asked them if they were okay with this. They unanimously supported the decision. Notice how the statement was made by Nestea as well. Do you really think Kespa went through the same process? ESF is a PLAYERS association, Kespa is NOT. You think the players would willingly turn down the chance to compete in a televised individual league, something they've probably been wanting since they became pros? Why wouldn't they if they think the alternative is death of GSL, their teams, and assimilation by KeSPA, who would restrict access to International tournaments? Why would they care if GSL died? If they got picked up by kespa teams they would make more money and play on tv. I can't believe the little guy complex you people all have. It's honestly making me uncomfortable to even post here. I shouldn't even take my time responding to a guy named "BrosephBrostar" but I suppose I will since you seem to be pretty ignorant. These players made shit, nothing, nilch, nada, when they were on KeSPA before. That's why they left. After making money in GSL and having the opportunity to freely play in whatever International tournaments they choose, why would they EVER want to go back to a repressive organization like KeSPA and earn shit money again? If KeSPA teams were so loaded with cash and sponsorship opportunities they wouldn't be down to 7 teams and wouldn't have lost over half its progaming base in the last two years. does nada mean nothing?? yep. weird, in liquipedia it says it means 'its me'
Nada in english means nothing.
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On August 24 2012 22:17 attackmoveftw wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:07 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:57 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:55 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:52 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:47 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2? Do you know how to read? The ESF contacted EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the OSL and asked them if they were okay with this. They unanimously supported the decision. Notice how the statement was made by Nestea as well. Do you really think Kespa went through the same process? ESF is a PLAYERS association, Kespa is NOT. You think the players would willingly turn down the chance to compete in a televised individual league, something they've probably been wanting since they became pros? Why wouldn't they if they think the alternative is death of GSL, their teams, and assimilation by KeSPA, who would restrict access to International tournaments? Why would they care if GSL died? If they got picked up by kespa teams they would make more money and play on tv. I can't believe the little guy complex you people all have. It's honestly making me uncomfortable to even post here. I shouldn't even take my time responding to a guy named "BrosephBrostar" but I suppose I will since you seem to be pretty ignorant. These players made shit, nothing, nilch, nada, when they were on KeSPA before. That's why they left. After making money in GSL and having the opportunity to freely play in whatever International tournaments they choose, why would they EVER want to go back to a repressive organization like KeSPA and earn shit money again? If KeSPA teams were so loaded with cash and sponsorship opportunities they wouldn't be down to 7 teams and wouldn't have lost over half its progaming base in the last two years. They made shit because they were B-Teamers. So what, they won some money while the A-Team were still playing BW. The prize money system still prevents bad players from making money plus they don't even provide lodge and food like KeSPa B-Teamers. You may think eSF is the great benevolent savior for players against the big bad KeSPa but in reality, it only suits top players and is worse for lower ranked players. In fact, in the future, eSF players might thank KeSPa for preventing all its players from gobbling up all the prize money in foreign tournaments.
It isn't just about Korea now. The players know that, and that is why only having KeSPA around would be bad for them. The KeSPA teams aren't just going to push their star players out the door because some of the ESF guys are more skilled as they too have a brand to protect.
It's pretty simple. For the star BW players, KeSPA=good and for the former b-team/dishwashers KeSPA=bad
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I just wanted to note that ESF proclaimed that "until Kespa decides to allow their players to join GSL without any problem, we have decided to pull our players from OSL".
That means that they will not participate the upcoming OSL, as Kespa is blocking the GSL participation of its players for the next qualifiers and the OSL starts before Kespa is losening its blockade,
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On August 24 2012 22:21 X3GoldDot wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:20 bo1b wrote:On August 24 2012 22:19 X3GoldDot wrote:On August 24 2012 22:07 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:57 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:55 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:52 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:47 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:On August 24 2012 21:28 Cubu wrote:
but wait, isnt kespa and osl 2 different entities? so that would mean esf screwed over someone innocent? ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2? Do you know how to read? The ESF contacted EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the OSL and asked them if they were okay with this. They unanimously supported the decision. Notice how the statement was made by Nestea as well. Do you really think Kespa went through the same process? ESF is a PLAYERS association, Kespa is NOT. You think the players would willingly turn down the chance to compete in a televised individual league, something they've probably been wanting since they became pros? Why wouldn't they if they think the alternative is death of GSL, their teams, and assimilation by KeSPA, who would restrict access to International tournaments? Why would they care if GSL died? If they got picked up by kespa teams they would make more money and play on tv. I can't believe the little guy complex you people all have. It's honestly making me uncomfortable to even post here. I shouldn't even take my time responding to a guy named "BrosephBrostar" but I suppose I will since you seem to be pretty ignorant. These players made shit, nothing, nilch, nada, when they were on KeSPA before. That's why they left. After making money in GSL and having the opportunity to freely play in whatever International tournaments they choose, why would they EVER want to go back to a repressive organization like KeSPA and earn shit money again? If KeSPA teams were so loaded with cash and sponsorship opportunities they wouldn't be down to 7 teams and wouldn't have lost over half its progaming base in the last two years. does nada mean nothing?? yep. weird, in liquipedia it says it means 'its me'
Nada in korean means "it's me". Nada in spanish means "nothing".
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On August 24 2012 22:22 bo1b wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:21 X3GoldDot wrote:On August 24 2012 22:20 bo1b wrote:On August 24 2012 22:19 X3GoldDot wrote:On August 24 2012 22:07 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:57 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:55 setzer wrote:On August 24 2012 21:52 BrosephBrostar wrote:On August 24 2012 21:47 ch33psh33p wrote:On August 24 2012 21:37 floor exercise wrote:
[quote]
ESF screwed over any of their players who wanted to participate in the OSL. Right now they're no better than Kespa and being used as pawns. I guess it's time to boycott all korean sc2? Do you know how to read? The ESF contacted EVERY SINGLE PLAYER in the OSL and asked them if they were okay with this. They unanimously supported the decision. Notice how the statement was made by Nestea as well. Do you really think Kespa went through the same process? ESF is a PLAYERS association, Kespa is NOT. You think the players would willingly turn down the chance to compete in a televised individual league, something they've probably been wanting since they became pros? Why wouldn't they if they think the alternative is death of GSL, their teams, and assimilation by KeSPA, who would restrict access to International tournaments? Why would they care if GSL died? If they got picked up by kespa teams they would make more money and play on tv. I can't believe the little guy complex you people all have. It's honestly making me uncomfortable to even post here. I shouldn't even take my time responding to a guy named "BrosephBrostar" but I suppose I will since you seem to be pretty ignorant. These players made shit, nothing, nilch, nada, when they were on KeSPA before. That's why they left. After making money in GSL and having the opportunity to freely play in whatever International tournaments they choose, why would they EVER want to go back to a repressive organization like KeSPA and earn shit money again? If KeSPA teams were so loaded with cash and sponsorship opportunities they wouldn't be down to 7 teams and wouldn't have lost over half its progaming base in the last two years. does nada mean nothing?? yep. weird, in liquipedia it says it means 'its me' Nada in english means nothing.
I'm pretty sure that Nada is not an English word and that Lee had the Korean version in mind.
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really feel like we dodged a bullet there,
kespa sees they made a mistake and rows back. cant believe they didnt stay stubborn, but nice to see
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Don't let this fool you.
This kind of shit will never end with Kespa.
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lol they made the decision based off of wanting OSL to run smoothly. this implies they weren't going for gsl season 5 anyway. however something might be lost in translation here.
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On August 24 2012 22:21 ThePlayer33 wrote:
I REALLY WANT TO KNOW:
Did Nestea and EsF really got the consent of every GSL player (except Oz) to pull out from OSL?
non-forcefully by GOM?
IF THIS IS TRUE:
Respect to EsF, all of you should worship Nestea.
and !@#$ Kespa
You do realize that it's something you'll never ever hear an answer to, right? In this situation, as soon as even just one or two teams / players would bring up "hey lets boycott OSL "in return"", players simply had no choice but to go along with it, else they'd face way too much fallout from their peers, and in light of a possible confrontation between two organizations, it'd take too much balls and too much risk for no real gain to do something like that.
It's the same on KeSPA side - maybe some players were unhappy about being forced to pull out of GSL, maybe they don't care that much - regardless, they have to accept the decision. ally not a bad thing
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Wow osl on my birthday but i going to be gone but I guess season 5 of gsl will be nice to watch i hope!
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On August 24 2012 22:20 monkybone wrote:Show nested quote +On August 24 2012 22:17 schaf wrote:On August 24 2012 21:55 PatouPower wrote:
Omg, this is gonna be really bad. I understand that ESF is doing this to protect their players so that Kespa cannot do what they want with everyone and control the ESF players, but like someone said above, it's gonna hurt OSL, aka OGN, more than anything.
By announcing their decision, even if it was a big jerk and douchebag move, Kespa didn't damage the GSL at all, except for maybe pulling away a couple of Jaedong/Flash/Bisu fangirls and some viewers. But at least they told them in time and, anyways, GSL has more than enough players to fill all the spots (since there is an open qualification process).
I still think that this "war" is gonna be more harmful to the ESF players than to the Kespa ones since the former (at least the top players like MC, MVP, MKP) have a lot more chances to win when the leagues are mixed up, while the chances of a Kespa player winning or advancing in the GSL are rather small.
Anyways, I hope that all of this is going to settle up, even if Blizzard needs to intervene. This is so retarded that everyone gets penalized in the end because one organisation wants total control over their players who are able to take care of themselves anyways.
EDIT: Someone should update the OP to let everyone know about the recent turn of events. Anyways, even if it's settled for now, this is just a pushing the confrontation back and I think it's gonna come back every time there is a major event and Kespa feels that their control is slipping away. This. ESF's move was really harsh in comparison to Kespa's. As far as I understood it wasnt even a contract that said *in Season 4 we will let our players play*. I assume it was a Kespa-sided decision and that they just had their usual trouble communicating it. It's not an eye for an eye... Kespa has broken the trust they were given, and needs to be punished immediately. They can't just have a successful OSL season 1 after this backstab. If the Gom players were retracted the next season it would look silly and stupid, and Kespa would get all the sympathy. This is the only way to punish them, and it is the perfect occasion as the OSL are in desparate need of the Gom players to keep the excitement for this season of OSL.
After thinking a little bit more now I can see Kespa being able to keep running Proleague and OSL for years. Their players will become really good after bw is done and the format of these leagues is established for like a decade now?
I see this more as a payback move from frustrated (and rightfully so) former Kespa players.
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EPT
