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Northern Ireland27205 Posts
On August 22 2012 03:09 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 02:58 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well played sir, excellent post. Don't know why you bothered given that people will not even bother to read it in all likelihood and continue to spout inaccuracies based on their assumptions on why people don't like the direction that HoTS appears to be going. His post isn't particularly good at all. It's all based around the assumption that Wings of Liberty is somehow too volatile and has too much randomness, too little skill. I assume this is because he is a BW elitist who thinks everything was better in BW. People never bother to check stats. Wanna guess who has a higher total winrate, Taeja or Fantasy (both at the top of TLPD, Korean Sc2/BW respectively)? Taeja. 4 time winners the OSL? None. GSL? 1 in 2 years. Given SC2 is an INCREDIBLY new game by BW standards, the fact that it's so STABLE is incredible. People just like spouting shit without backing any of it up.
To take an extreme example, PvP was never an unfair matchup, or imbalanced in the worst days of 4 gating, but was it optimal in a design sense?
Taeja is crazy good, but there's a lot of tournaments where they are no clear favourites, it's 'Here are 15 people who could win if they have a good day' every time. For every Tajea there's 3 Elfis who just shouldn't be beating players who are many levels above them in every aspect of the game.
Terran players are the only ones who I've ever really looked at as being able to turn those incremental mechanical edges into consistently dominant play, we need more of that to stabilise the game. There are upsets in all games, but Brood War and even Warcraft 3 were a lot less volatile for a reason. Terran is the race that is actually well designed, with a lot of variance in potential playstyles and cool versatile units, why not take more notice of why that is, and emulate that approach with the other races. You don't necessarily have to sacrifice the identifying characteristics of the races to do this either
I didn't even play BW much and was unaware of the pro scene until retroactively looking back and checking out games. It just boggles my mind that at least some of what made it such a good E-sport are overlooked, actively by the designers. Browder has said SC2 is a different game from BW, they're both good games but different, if you want BW, play that. That's fine if it was a new franchise or something, it's a sequel to the bloody original game and ignoring part of what made it great as an E-sport is just refusing to swallow your pride.
I have an open mind, and I'm basing my assessment on what I'm seeing. I was actually hopefully with a lot of the interviews from a few months ago, referring to breaking up deathball play and putting more of an emphasis on hard-to-use units. Then now by all accounts the Terran players now have a mech deathball so now all 3 races can have deathball wars? Great stuff! Blizzard in their public utterances appear to acknowledge and be aware of a lot of issue, claim they're designing the game with those in mind, and then when what we're seeing does not correlate with what they said of course people are going to get pissy!
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On August 21 2012 21:09 Otolia wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2012 21:03 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 21 2012 20:59 Arpayon wrote:
Cloud best whiner, it's sad to be from Italy in these cases I feel Cloud is mischaracterised as a whiner, he's a bit blunt but he doesn't tend to excuse his own losses by using balance whine or whatever. He just has issues with the direction the game is going in a design sense, and some of his criticisms are pretty legitimate even if you disagree with them He does. He is known for publicly claiming that bad players can succeed in the game; known for spiting on the work of casters; making up excuses for not being able to qualify in WCS Italy even though he is supposed to be the best player there, and all that while not being at the top of the scene. It's fine to express critics but being arrogant while doing so is unacceptable when oneself isn't at the top of the pyramid.
Sry I was working, couldn't reply sooner.
That is actually what I was thinking. Even in the Italian community, where he shouldn't have language problems at all, I've always seen him as a very bm person.
That is of course my opinion, I would be happier if he were a better person, but he isn't at all.
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all the new units look fucking stupid.
i feel like they should just add some basic ones to even out inadequacies. (seems terran has more units) and thats not by adding dogshit retarded ones.
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I want to point out how most people making huge complaints and posting all this negativity are only focusing on one or two new units and declaring the whole expansion a dud before the beta is even out. I don't mind complaining, it makes for good feedback, but looking at the bigger picture theres a lot of things being done right with HotS. I haven't seen a single complaint against the viper, hydra speed, ultralist burrow charge or reaper upgrade. A lot of people are cool with the oracle, mothership core, and battle hellion. People are on the fence about tempest, widow mine, and swarm host but only for possibly not being powerful enough. Really the only constant complaints being made are against the warhound and general fears about continued deathball vs. deathball "a-move" gameplay.
Doesn't sound too bad for still being pre-beta! And once beta starts there will probably be a floodgate of changes, and I think a lot of people complaining that Blizzard never listens are gonna get shut up. If you can remember back to SC2:WoL beta Blizzard was making changes all the time. People forget that. Once a game is released it's different, and they become way more hesitant to make big changes, and rightfully so. But beta time is great. I don't know what kind of changes are yet to be made, but in a few months you can bet we won't be looking at the same game we see today. So to nay sayers I simply say continue criticizing and giving feedback, that's good, but the predictions about SC2 and HotS failing are just too premature for this stage of development.
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On August 22 2012 03:25 uNhoLeee wrote:
all the new units look fucking stupid.
i feel like they should just add some basic ones to even out inadequacies. (seems terran has more units) and thats not by adding dogshit retarded ones.
I was laughing hard at the Locusts. They look sooooo silly, and the swarm host looks so awkward and bulky as well. Not to hate on the looks of the units, but jesus, they should have just improved upon the lurker or something...
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Northern Ireland27205 Posts
On August 22 2012 03:27 Yoduh wrote:
I want to point out how most people making huge complaints and posting all this negativity are only focusing on one or two new units and declaring the whole expansion a dud before the beta is even out. I don't mind complaining, it makes for good feedback, but looking at the bigger picture theres a lot of things being done right with HotS. I haven't seen a single complaint against the viper, hydra speed, ultralist burrow charge or reaper upgrade. A lot of people are cool with the oracle, mothership core, and battle hellion. People are on the fence about tempest, widow mine, and swarm host but only for possibly not being powerful enough. Really the only constant complaints being made are against the warhound and general fears about continued deathball vs. deathball "a-move" gameplay.
Doesn't sound too bad for still being pre-beta! And once beta starts there will probably be a floodgate of changes, and I think a lot of people complaining that Blizzard never listens are gonna get shut up. If you can remember back to SC2:WoL beta Blizzard was making changes all the time. People forget that. Once a game is released it's different, and they become way more hesitant to make big changes, and rightfully so. But beta time is great. I don't know what kind of changes are yet to be made, but in a few months you can bet we won't be looking at the same game we see today. So to nay sayers I simply say continue criticizing and giving feedback, that's good, but the predictions about SC2 and HotS failing are just too premature for this stage of development.
Warpgate is still a stupid mechanic and it's been in the game forever. It's also a contributory factor to [i]why[i/] Protoss games largely consist of allins or deathballing.
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On August 22 2012 02:22 Kodak wrote:
Whoever posted that the widow mine has been changed to be largely single-unit damage with little splash...
If that's real (source?) I hardly see the point of it at all. So disappointed.
Source is David Kim. There was a fansite meeting with him and Kaéo Miller at gamescom. All the changes I mentioned in the OP were stated by him or other Blizzard employees (Could be all by him. I can't recall atm who said that about the Battle Cruiser. Rest was him, though).
Again, to all those people complaining about the audio: I'm very sorry I couldn't reach your standards. I didn't have an external microphone and it was very hard to find a relatively quiet place at gamescom.
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Agree with the what Cloud said just not the way he said it. HOTS doesn't seem like its going to add too much to SC2
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haha ReaL seems to be an awesome guy :D
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On August 22 2012 03:19 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:09 boxman22 wrote:On August 22 2012 02:58 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well played sir, excellent post. Don't know why you bothered given that people will not even bother to read it in all likelihood and continue to spout inaccuracies based on their assumptions on why people don't like the direction that HoTS appears to be going. His post isn't particularly good at all. It's all based around the assumption that Wings of Liberty is somehow too volatile and has too much randomness, too little skill. I assume this is because he is a BW elitist who thinks everything was better in BW. People never bother to check stats. Wanna guess who has a higher total winrate, Taeja or Fantasy (both at the top of TLPD, Korean Sc2/BW respectively)? Taeja. 4 time winners the OSL? None. GSL? 1 in 2 years. Given SC2 is an INCREDIBLY new game by BW standards, the fact that it's so STABLE is incredible. People just like spouting shit without backing any of it up. To take an extreme example, PvP was never an unfair matchup, or imbalanced in the worst days of 4 gating, but was it optimal in a design sense? Taeja is crazy good, but there's a lot of tournaments where they are no clear favourites, it's 'Here are 15 people who could win if they have a good day' every time. For every Tajea there's 3 Elfis who just shouldn't be beating players who are many levels above them in every aspect of the game. Terran players are the only ones who I've ever really looked at as being able to turn those incremental mechanical edges into consistently dominant play, we need more of that to stabilise the game. There are upsets in all games, but Brood War and even Warcraft 3 were a lot less volatile for a reason. Terran is the race that is actually well designed, with a lot of variance in potential playstyles and cool versatile units, why not take more notice of why that is, and emulate that approach with the other races. You don't necessarily have to sacrifice the identifying characteristics of the races to do this either I didn't even play BW much and was unaware of the pro scene until retroactively looking back and checking out games. It just boggles my mind that at least some of what made it such a good E-sport are overlooked, actively by the designers. Browder has said SC2 is a different game from BW, they're both good games but different, if you want BW, play that. That's fine if it was a new franchise or something, it's a sequel to the bloody original game and ignoring part of what made it great as an E-sport is just refusing to swallow your pride. I have an open mind, and I'm basing my assessment on what I'm seeing. I was actually hopefully with a lot of the interviews from a few months ago, referring to breaking up deathball play and putting more of an emphasis on hard-to-use units. Then now by all accounts the Terran players now have a mech deathball so now all 3 races can have deathball wars? Great stuff! Blizzard in their public utterances appear to acknowledge and be aware of a lot of issue, claim they're designing the game with those in mind, and then when what we're seeing does not correlate with what they said of course people are going to get pissy!
On August 22 2012 03:29 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:27 Yoduh wrote:
I want to point out how most people making huge complaints and posting all this negativity are only focusing on one or two new units and declaring the whole expansion a dud before the beta is even out. I don't mind complaining, it makes for good feedback, but looking at the bigger picture theres a lot of things being done right with HotS. I haven't seen a single complaint against the viper, hydra speed, ultralist burrow charge or reaper upgrade. A lot of people are cool with the oracle, mothership core, and battle hellion. People are on the fence about tempest, widow mine, and swarm host but only for possibly not being powerful enough. Really the only constant complaints being made are against the warhound and general fears about continued deathball vs. deathball "a-move" gameplay.
Doesn't sound too bad for still being pre-beta! And once beta starts there will probably be a floodgate of changes, and I think a lot of people complaining that Blizzard never listens are gonna get shut up. If you can remember back to SC2:WoL beta Blizzard was making changes all the time. People forget that. Once a game is released it's different, and they become way more hesitant to make big changes, and rightfully so. But beta time is great. I don't know what kind of changes are yet to be made, but in a few months you can bet we won't be looking at the same game we see today. So to nay sayers I simply say continue criticizing and giving feedback, that's good, but the predictions about SC2 and HotS failing are just too premature for this stage of development. Warpgate is still a stupid mechanic and it's been in the game forever. It's also a contributory factor to [i]why[i/] Protoss games largely consist of allins or deathballing.
Agree with everything you said.
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On August 22 2012 03:27 Yoduh wrote:
I want to point out how most people making huge complaints and posting all this negativity are only focusing on one or two new units and declaring the whole expansion a dud before the beta is even out. I don't mind complaining, it makes for good feedback, but looking at the bigger picture theres a lot of things being done right with HotS. I haven't seen a single complaint against the viper, hydra speed, ultralist burrow charge or reaper upgrade. A lot of people are cool with the oracle, mothership core, and battle hellion. People are on the fence about tempest, widow mine, and swarm host but only for possibly not being powerful enough. Really the only constant complaints being made are against the warhound and general fears about continued deathball vs. deathball "a-move" gameplay.
Doesn't sound too bad for still being pre-beta! And once beta starts there will probably be a floodgate of changes, and I think a lot of people complaining that Blizzard never listens are gonna get shut up. If you can remember back to SC2:WoL beta Blizzard was making changes all the time. People forget that. Once a game is released it's different, and they become way more hesitant to make big changes, and rightfully so. But beta time is great. I don't know what kind of changes are yet to be made, but in a few months you can bet we won't be looking at the same game we see today. So to nay sayers I simply say continue criticizing and giving feedback, that's good, but the predictions about SC2 and HotS failing are just too premature for this stage of development.
Pretty much this. It's not even in beta people. FFS calm down. Cloud does make some decent points. Problem is he just sounds like all the players/people he complains about QQ'n all the time...
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lol @ Cloud's interview. Standard foreigner terran player, bitter and upset about the direction sc2 has been going and has gone in. Can't say I disagree with him either.
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On August 22 2012 03:29 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:27 Yoduh wrote:
I want to point out how most people making huge complaints and posting all this negativity are only focusing on one or two new units and declaring the whole expansion a dud before the beta is even out. I don't mind complaining, it makes for good feedback, but looking at the bigger picture theres a lot of things being done right with HotS. I haven't seen a single complaint against the viper, hydra speed, ultralist burrow charge or reaper upgrade. A lot of people are cool with the oracle, mothership core, and battle hellion. People are on the fence about tempest, widow mine, and swarm host but only for possibly not being powerful enough. Really the only constant complaints being made are against the warhound and general fears about continued deathball vs. deathball "a-move" gameplay.
Doesn't sound too bad for still being pre-beta! And once beta starts there will probably be a floodgate of changes, and I think a lot of people complaining that Blizzard never listens are gonna get shut up. If you can remember back to SC2:WoL beta Blizzard was making changes all the time. People forget that. Once a game is released it's different, and they become way more hesitant to make big changes, and rightfully so. But beta time is great. I don't know what kind of changes are yet to be made, but in a few months you can bet we won't be looking at the same game we see today. So to nay sayers I simply say continue criticizing and giving feedback, that's good, but the predictions about SC2 and HotS failing are just too premature for this stage of development. Warpgate is still a stupid mechanic and it's been in the game forever. It's also a contributory factor to [i]why[i/] Protoss games largely consist of allins or deathballing.
Lol how does warpgate cause deathballs? Warpgate, if anything, would be antideathball. Sure it would increase all-ins, but you can't say deathball at all...
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On August 22 2012 00:39 ROOTT1 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 00:39 SarcasmMonster wrote:On August 22 2012 00:33 ROOTT1 wrote:
wut about tt1, my tt1 alert goes off whenever someone says my name. was i mentioned in a positive or a negative way? Hey, what's your opinion of HOTS? Be the pro voice of Canadians. hots = wol for toss, we have the same attacking units FUCK THIS SHIT
you would have had a tempest but your brethren want it removed, back to the carrier!
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On August 22 2012 03:42 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:29 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 22 2012 03:27 Yoduh wrote:
I want to point out how most people making huge complaints and posting all this negativity are only focusing on one or two new units and declaring the whole expansion a dud before the beta is even out. I don't mind complaining, it makes for good feedback, but looking at the bigger picture theres a lot of things being done right with HotS. I haven't seen a single complaint against the viper, hydra speed, ultralist burrow charge or reaper upgrade. A lot of people are cool with the oracle, mothership core, and battle hellion. People are on the fence about tempest, widow mine, and swarm host but only for possibly not being powerful enough. Really the only constant complaints being made are against the warhound and general fears about continued deathball vs. deathball "a-move" gameplay.
Doesn't sound too bad for still being pre-beta! And once beta starts there will probably be a floodgate of changes, and I think a lot of people complaining that Blizzard never listens are gonna get shut up. If you can remember back to SC2:WoL beta Blizzard was making changes all the time. People forget that. Once a game is released it's different, and they become way more hesitant to make big changes, and rightfully so. But beta time is great. I don't know what kind of changes are yet to be made, but in a few months you can bet we won't be looking at the same game we see today. So to nay sayers I simply say continue criticizing and giving feedback, that's good, but the predictions about SC2 and HotS failing are just too premature for this stage of development. Warpgate is still a stupid mechanic and it's been in the game forever. It's also a contributory factor to [i]why[i/] Protoss games largely consist of allins or deathballing. Lol how does warpgate cause deathballs? Warpgate, if anything, would be antideathball. Sure it would increase all-ins, but you can't say deathball at all...
Because it's an all or nothing mechanic. It's part of the reason why they're giving protoss players recall much earlier in the game for HoTS.
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Always nice to hear progamers opinions, they have way more insight than us.
And Cloud, as usual, brings up valid points in the worst possible PR manner 
I think that there are basically three problems in the balance situation: the first is the warp-in mechanic, since it completely nullifies the concept of map distance and makes PvP what it is.
The second is the existence of spells who are able to change the flow of a battle despite whatever your opponent does.
Forcefields, fungals, the infamous vortex, EMPs... one could argue that somehow your opponent can prevent some of them like the vortex by splitting everywhere, or luring FFs all day long... but personally I think it relies too much on a single player to make a mistake rather than his opponent doing something genius
The third one is Blizzard's tendency to never punish a player who makes bad decisions when building his army since they tend to make the some units as well-rounded as possible.
Pre-nerf ghost is the epitome of this tendecy, since it was NEVER a bad idea to make ghosts.
Not that now making a ghost in TvP can be stupid, since they still hurt any kind of army composition the Protoss has, but they are not the only one.
-Infestors are so well rounded that they can answer to absolutely EVERYTHING the opponent makes in all the matchups.
-Colossi as well, as long as the opponent doesn't go completely anti-collossi (no... actually it's even better since in the next warp-in cycle the Toss will completely swap the army wherever he wants).
-3/3 marines are perfect in every army against every kind of threat.
-Broodlors, as long as supported by infestors, are NEVER a bad choice.
And it looks like the Warhound will fit in this category as well.
Generally a player is punished only because of bad decision making in a battle or due to huge errors with scouting, but the game is pretty generous with army compositions errors at every level of play that isn't the real top.
It looks like HoTS won't change this aspect, sadly.
That's the current state, I wonder how will it be in a couple of years...
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On August 22 2012 02:05 Evangelist wrote:
All this "a move friendly" BS is just proof of that - the most basic use of units in this game is moving them from a to b in a group conducive to winning an engagement. Every single unit barring casters with no useful attack is capable of being used as an A move unit. This is true of all strategy games - in fact in virtually every single strategy game, THE GUY WITH MORE STUFF THAT DOES MORE DAMAGE FUCKING WINS THE FIGHT. It is remarkable, for example, that both SC2 and SCBW are balanced in such a way that sometimes, this isn't actually true.
Maybe i got this wrong, but Overlords/shuttles/any kind of transporter are not meant to attack either, so they are no A move units. (or maybe you meant that they can be moved with the a key? :o )
And what you call balance is in fact game design. High grounds that give specific bonuses, abilities like dark swarm in BW........... are to be balanced AFTER the decision was made to put them in. Everything that can influence the actual battles is game design and THEN you balance it.
Also, I thought we are talking about army control here.. Kiting? A lot of battles (like in Diablo 3, Dota...) are about minimizing incoming damage and maxmizing outgoing damage. Nice job there of completely disregarding everything that makes these games so interesting..
Single target A move units (hi Warhound) are crazy easy to balance. It's a game of numbers and since there's no multiplication implicit to a Warhound deathball they scale linearly with the only limits being the quantized number of shots required to destroy a particular unit.
Crazy easy to balance, lol. Compared to what exacty? Shuttles/workers? Again you completely disregard army control and everything that can influence the battle other than dps/hp/range of a unit. Army upkeep (=supply), costs, upgrades..........
No, Cloud. David Kim is not an idiot. David Kim is one of the designers of a multi-million copy selling game and he is responsible for your fucking career. Show some goddamn respect.
lol. Designer of a multi-million copy selling game. So what? If StarCraft2 wasnt named StarCraft2 but BattleGrounds2, the sales figures would probably look a lot different. So has David Kim to thank the guys that made Blizzard so popular in the first place?
Also noone is responsible for clouds career other than Cloud, lol how stupid is that?
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Northern Ireland27205 Posts
On August 22 2012 03:42 boxman22 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:29 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 22 2012 03:27 Yoduh wrote:
I want to point out how most people making huge complaints and posting all this negativity are only focusing on one or two new units and declaring the whole expansion a dud before the beta is even out. I don't mind complaining, it makes for good feedback, but looking at the bigger picture theres a lot of things being done right with HotS. I haven't seen a single complaint against the viper, hydra speed, ultralist burrow charge or reaper upgrade. A lot of people are cool with the oracle, mothership core, and battle hellion. People are on the fence about tempest, widow mine, and swarm host but only for possibly not being powerful enough. Really the only constant complaints being made are against the warhound and general fears about continued deathball vs. deathball "a-move" gameplay.
Doesn't sound too bad for still being pre-beta! And once beta starts there will probably be a floodgate of changes, and I think a lot of people complaining that Blizzard never listens are gonna get shut up. If you can remember back to SC2:WoL beta Blizzard was making changes all the time. People forget that. Once a game is released it's different, and they become way more hesitant to make big changes, and rightfully so. But beta time is great. I don't know what kind of changes are yet to be made, but in a few months you can bet we won't be looking at the same game we see today. So to nay sayers I simply say continue criticizing and giving feedback, that's good, but the predictions about SC2 and HotS failing are just too premature for this stage of development. Warpgate is still a stupid mechanic and it's been in the game forever. It's also a contributory factor to [i]why[i/] Protoss games largely consist of allins or deathballing. Lol how does warpgate cause deathballs? Warpgate, if anything, would be antideathball. Sure it would increase all-ins, but you can't say deathball at all...
Warpgate has no disadvantages vs gateways, I mean it even produces units faster. I actually don't mind the concept, but it should be slower to produce armies off gateways, giving you a strategic decision to make between pumping fewer units vs reinforcing faster.
The removal of defenders advantage by enabling Protoss to reinforce instantly at the front made gateway all-ins very powerful. Gateway units are thus not as strong unsupported as other tier 1 units, otherwise big gateway attacks would be all you see.
You need collosus/templar AoE to engage headup against a good player, so you have to turtle to get it, and move out. Hey you have a deathball.
Bear in mind I play Protoss, I'm not bitching because of bias or anything in this case
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On August 22 2012 03:19 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2012 03:09 boxman22 wrote:On August 22 2012 02:58 Wombat_NI wrote:
Well played sir, excellent post. Don't know why you bothered given that people will not even bother to read it in all likelihood and continue to spout inaccuracies based on their assumptions on why people don't like the direction that HoTS appears to be going. His post isn't particularly good at all. It's all based around the assumption that Wings of Liberty is somehow too volatile and has too much randomness, too little skill. I assume this is because he is a BW elitist who thinks everything was better in BW. People never bother to check stats. Wanna guess who has a higher total winrate, Taeja or Fantasy (both at the top of TLPD, Korean Sc2/BW respectively)? Taeja. 4 time winners the OSL? None. GSL? 1 in 2 years. Given SC2 is an INCREDIBLY new game by BW standards, the fact that it's so STABLE is incredible. People just like spouting shit without backing any of it up. To take an extreme example, PvP was never an unfair matchup, or imbalanced in the worst days of 4 gating, but was it optimal in a design sense? Taeja is crazy good, but there's a lot of tournaments where they are no clear favourites, it's 'Here are 15 people who could win if they have a good day' every time. For every Tajea there's 3 Elfis who just shouldn't be beating players who are many levels above them in every aspect of the game. Terran players are the only ones who I've ever really looked at as being able to turn those incremental mechanical edges into consistently dominant play, we need more of that to stabilise the game. There are upsets in all games, but Brood War and even Warcraft 3 were a lot less volatile for a reason. Terran is the race that is actually well designed, with a lot of variance in potential playstyles and cool versatile units, why not take more notice of why that is, and emulate that approach with the other races. You don't necessarily have to sacrifice the identifying characteristics of the races to do this either I didn't even play BW much and was unaware of the pro scene until retroactively looking back and checking out games. It just boggles my mind that at least some of what made it such a good E-sport are overlooked, actively by the designers. Browder has said SC2 is a different game from BW, they're both good games but different, if you want BW, play that. That's fine if it was a new franchise or something, it's a sequel to the bloody original game and ignoring part of what made it great as an E-sport is just refusing to swallow your pride. I have an open mind, and I'm basing my assessment on what I'm seeing. I was actually hopefully with a lot of the interviews from a few months ago, referring to breaking up deathball play and putting more of an emphasis on hard-to-use units. Then now by all accounts the Terran players now have a mech deathball so now all 3 races can have deathball wars? Great stuff! Blizzard in their public utterances appear to acknowledge and be aware of a lot of issue, claim they're designing the game with those in mind, and then when what we're seeing does not correlate with what they said of course people are going to get pissy!
The main thing I think is stupid with Sc2 is the lack of the high ground advantage mechanic. If you don't want something that is random just make it so that units on the low ground deal 75% damage to units on the high ground. Bam, larger defenders advantage and positional play.
Other than that, people just like to pretend the BW isn't a game where anybody could win on any given day. Did you watch Ace beat KT today? "BW and WC3 were less volatile". Back that up. I've shown you examples that show it was not any less volatile, people just like pretending it is. Guess who won the last two OSLs. JangBi. But wait wasn't Flash dominant? JangBi over Fantasy = OSL finals. Flash over Zero MSL finals. How bout the MSL before that? Hydra over Great. Who? Yea that's right, not volatile in the slightest.
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All this did was show that the progamers opinions (with a few exceptions - nerchios surprisingly considering the balance whining i've seen in some games he's played in) are just as worthless as your average bronze league bnet forum poster. All any of them want is to say that their race is weak and everything else is OP. So boring.
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EPT
