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On August 03 2012 03:41 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 02:30 stormfoxSC wrote:On August 02 2012 13:55 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 02 2012 11:52 stormfoxSC wrote:On August 02 2012 07:33 Wombat_NI wrote:On August 02 2012 04:20 stormfoxSC wrote:On August 02 2012 01:05 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:
The fact that they're dropping support for 10.5.8 after it working for 2 years is pretty ridiculous. I understand their technological reasons for doing it, but they're literally changing the system requirements AFTER people have bought the game. That's a huge problem.
I'm running 10.7.4 and it's not working for me either so this isn't just a "your OS is too old" issue. They broke the game. Evidently even the people who do get the game running, they totally broke command-click (for everyone, it seems). Minimum requirements for software change all the time, not just for games. Minimum requirements only reflect the current version of the software at any point in time. It's up to the individual user to ensure their system remains up to date. It's just the reality when it comes to limitations in software development. You can't both have continued patches/updates and retain the original minimum requirements forever. For small changes like balance updates and bug fixes within the original technological scope of the software, sure, but patches like 1.5 which make gigantic overhauls to the underlying technology, this sort of thing is bound to happen. On August 01 2012 15:57 IronManSC wrote:
Yep, and once 10.8 comes out, 10.6.8 (what i'm using) will get discontinued. That's when I officially quit sc2 and mapmaking.
Hate to break it to you, IronMan, but 10.8 is already out and available from the App Store. I'm running it right now on my MacBook Pro and iMac.  Why not just upgrade your OS X? This is just symptomatic of the direction Blizzard has been going for years, especially since the Activision merger. I'm sure there are technical reasons for doing so, with validity but it is the lack of communication and transparence that compatibility with my OS is completely removed with this patch that really pissed me off. I do enjoy the game, and was looking forward to playing today, but alas am as yet unable to. Hopefully Blizzard can get round to having a look at things and giving some more information to us frustrated users in future. The response on the forums with their Mac rep has been pretty good in fairness, but it's been pretty much sprung on us and that is what annoys me the most. I don't see how any compatibility has to be removed for this OS, when Windows XP users can apparently still play the game. Again I'm not particularly tech-minded so there perhaps is a legitimate reason. The minimum system requirements released in 2010 when SC2 first came out had a nice note in the stating that the minimum requirements are subject to change as technology continues to advance. Just take a look at your quick start manual that comes with your copy of SC2, and you'll find the following: MINIMUM SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS*
Windows® XP/Windows Vista®/Windows® 7 (Latest Service Packs)
with DirectX® 9.0c
Processor: 2.6 GHz Pentium® IV or equivalent AMD Athlon® Processor
128 MB PCIe NVIDIA® GeForce® 6600 GT or ATI Radeon® 9800 PRO
Video:
video card or better
PC OS:
Mac® OS: Mac® OS X 10.5.8, 10.6.2 or newer
Processor: Intel® Processor
NVIDIA® GeForce® 8600M GT or ATI Radeon® X1600 or better
Video:
ALL PLATFORMS
HD Space: 12 GB available HD space
Memory: 1 GB RAM (1.5 GB required for Windows Vista®/Windows® 7 users,
2 GB for Mac® users)
DVD-ROM drive
Drive:
Internet: Broadband Internet connection
1024x720 minimum display resolution
Display:
* Note: Due to potential programming changes, the Minimum System
Requirements for this game may change over time. Notice the asterisk after "minimum requirements", then look at the asterisk note. This is generally the case for any piece of software, as well. Any outrage after the fact is basically an exercise in common sense and basic reading comprehension, and people utilizing their right to not use them in favour of their own misguided assumptions and negligence in keeping their technology reasonably up to date. Google chrome recently stated, upon started that I wouldn't be receiving further updates due to the relative antiquity of my browser. This is fine, my Chrome will still function in its current state. You did not see me posting on TL regarding this, as I saw it as a fair, transparent and PUBLICISED change. Starcraft 2, will not work, or function in any form even as a single player game. There's a difference between not actively supporting/patching a product, and actively removing the ability to run a product that was working perfectly fine 2 days ago for me. Again, nothing you said is incorrect. I would have expected such a change perhaps around the time of HoTS being launched as it is a new piece of software, but as this was merely a patch to the existing title so it slipped through my grasp. And again, is 10.5.8 any more antiquated than XP, which has not had the ability to play removed? *EDIT* Not to mention by all accounts I've read, even with recent OSs and decent specced machines, the game runs horribly on a Mac as they haven't optimised it at all well for the OS, so it's not as if people are seeing improvements on that end either. This is a case of different types of software with different expectations. SC2 is a competitive game played with other individuals. To make that work properly, everyone needs to be on the same version of software. That contrasts greatly with a web browser like Chrome, where an outdated version simply means a reduced viewing experience for yourself. Ever try opening a modern web application/website with IE6 these days? There's almost no point in bothering, but that's ok because there's no requirement for every individual to have the exact same web experience. Imagine playing a ZvZ where one guy has 3 range queens and the other has 5 range. That's just not acceptable. Everyone needs to be on the latest patch for the system to work; this isn't any different from back in SC1, when every time you tried to connect to battle.net, you had to patch your client to the latest version before you could access it. The only difference today from back in the 1990's is that you also require battle.net for single player. I'm sure everyone agrees that decision is kind of a sucky one, but it's not like that reality is only just being discovered. Everyone's known since the July 2010 release that SC2 requires you to be logged into battle.net for everything. Besides, in terms of "publicly announcing" the OS X minimum support, Blizzard did that. http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/6821783/What_You_Need_To_Know_About_Patching_150-7_26_2012In that blog, you'll see a link to a support article called "OS X Support Update" (it's under the "Patching Smoothly" section of the post). Click on that, and it'll send you to this: http://us.battle.net/support/en/article/mac-os-x-support-updateLooking at that support article, you'll see it was last updated June 12, 2012. That's a month and a half before 1.5 was pushed live. The information's been out there well before the patch launched; Blizzard can't help if people don't pay attention or read. I am aware of this now as I found it yesterday, but I didn't see this in the TL thread which had the original post about the 1.5 patch, or elsewhere. Don't see why they couldn't have put something in the client like 'We detect that the OS you use will not be compatible with the upcoming patch, please update', it was that point I was really making with the reference to Chrome which did that. The fact that this was news to the majority of people posting here or on the Bnet forums would tell me that it wasn't well publicised. Anyhows, anyone got any bright ideas on how I can update my OS? Apple don't seem to stock Snow Leopard anymore
It's usually best to keep track of battle.net for anything related to Blizzard games. The forums there are a cesspool, but the news is pretty darn useful; any posts on TL about patches (patch notes, announcements, details, etc.) tend to be a short summary of an article posted by Blizzard on battle.net.
Also, the majority of people don't read or pay attention to things related to patches and updates. It's a sad reality; people might read the title and perhaps do a quick skim, but it's amazing how many people ask questions about stuff that's already been answered if they'd just read. This isn't just limited to Blizzard games, or even games in general.
As for updating your OS, you should be able to contact 1-800--MY-APPLE and order the Snow Leopard 10.6 disc for $29.99. Got this information from here: http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/forum/topic/6232373597#2
After getting Snow Leopard and installing the App Store, you should be able to get additional OS updates via the App Store itself.
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
On August 03 2012 05:54 stormfoxSC wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 02:42 Blazinghand wrote:On August 03 2012 02:30 stormfoxSC wrote:
I'm sure everyone agrees that decision is kind of a sucky one, but it's not like that reality is only just being discovered. Everyone's known since the July 2010 release that SC2 requires you to be logged into battle.net for everything. Besides, in terms of "publicly announcing" the OS X minimum support, Blizzard did that.
This is not correct. You can play the campaign off-line. Blizzard has removed this functionality with the newest update-- there's no way to get the old version and just play the campaign. I never figured out how to play offline, aside from logging in to batte.net and disconnecting during the single player (to which achievements would be disabled). Was there actually a feature to enter the campaign without logging in first?
Yeah... several times when I was travelling or my internet was down I'd just play the campaign. It doesn't save achievements but you can still play just time. If Sc2 doesn't have an internet connection it just puts you into single player mode, no login required.
Maybe if I can get my hands on an old install, then only run sc2 with my wifi card turned off, I'll be able to play without it patching to 1.5 and I can still play the campaign.
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FUCK BLIZZARD.
Did the fix recommended in the forum, it ran once, crashed, than I re-installed the app in it's entirety, and now it won't fucking run at all.
Maybe instead of releasing a patch they should test it first.
I knew I was going to quit playing SC2 one day, but I never thought it would be because the Blizzard QA and Dev teams are fucking shitheads.
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Blazinghand
United States25557 Posts
For what it's worth, I imagine the actually QA engineers aren't bad in any way-- I work in QA and I'll have you know that QA engineers are some of the most nitpicky perfectionists in existence. I imagine they were understaffed and had a tight deadline, and so weren't able to find and track all the bugs that surfaced in the 1.5 PTR.
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On August 04 2012 00:42 Defacer wrote:
FUCK BLIZZARD.
Did the fix recommended in the forum, it ran once, crashed, than I re-installed the app in it's entirety, and now it won't fucking run at all.
Maybe instead of releasing a patch they should test it first.
I knew I was going to quit playing SC2 one day, but I never thought it would be because the Blizzard QA and Dev teams are fucking shitheads.
In the meantime you can dual-boot. I set that up yesterday and it was pretty easy ... but now with a system that can run antihack, I can finally play BW on my comp, so no more SC2  game was feeling stale anyway. I'm pretty sure SC2 would run much better on my Windows partition also, just haven't tried it yet since it's such a big download and my ISP is slowwwwww
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On August 02 2012 01:05 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:
The fact that they're dropping support for 10.5.8 after it working for 2 years is pretty ridiculous. I understand their technological reasons for doing it, but they're literally changing the system requirements AFTER people have bought the game. That's a huge problem.
I'm running 10.7.4 and it's not working for me either so this isn't just a "your OS is too old" issue. They broke the game. Evidently even the people who do get the game running, they totally broke command-click (for everyone, it seems).
Dude, yeah. I'm one of the few fortunate enough to have it run okay, but guess what? Motherfuckin' Blizz decided to outright remove "command+click" functionality completely. Whether it was a mistake (how does a dev team make such a mistake without realizing it?) or a really poor idea, there really is no good excuse for it.
So even when you get your game up and running, you're going to have to re-learn your mechanics entirely using right click, or using move command and other hotkeys to accomplish what command+click used to do (right click alternative). It doesn't sound like much to non-Mac users, but if you've been using command+click your entire history playing games, not having it is like telling someone to start from scratch with a new set of controls. All your muscle memory is gone. Everything just feels weird. I feel like I'm playing at a platinum level now thanks to this little hiccup
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On August 04 2012 00:59 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On August 02 2012 01:05 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:
The fact that they're dropping support for 10.5.8 after it working for 2 years is pretty ridiculous. I understand their technological reasons for doing it, but they're literally changing the system requirements AFTER people have bought the game. That's a huge problem.
I'm running 10.7.4 and it's not working for me either so this isn't just a "your OS is too old" issue. They broke the game. Evidently even the people who do get the game running, they totally broke command-click (for everyone, it seems). Dude, yeah. I'm one of the few fortunate enough to have it run okay, but guess what? Motherfuckin' Blizz decided to outright remove "command+click" functionality completely. Whether it was a mistake (how does a dev team make such a mistake without realizing it?) or a really poor idea, there really is no good excuse for it. So even when you get your game up and running, you're going to have to re-learn your mechanics entirely using right click, or using move command and other hotkeys to accomplish what command+click used to do (right click alternative). It doesn't sound like much to non-Mac users, but if you've been using command+click your entire history playing games, not having it is like telling someone to start from scratch with a new set of controls. All your muscle memory is gone. Everything just feels weird. I feel like I'm playing at a platinum level now thanks to this little hiccup
Huh, that's interesting. I know Blizzard is looking into it (it was a mistake), but I never considered using command-click. Always right-click with command key disabled.
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On August 04 2012 13:14 iamcaustic wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 00:59 FallDownMarigold wrote:On August 02 2012 01:05 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:
The fact that they're dropping support for 10.5.8 after it working for 2 years is pretty ridiculous. I understand their technological reasons for doing it, but they're literally changing the system requirements AFTER people have bought the game. That's a huge problem.
I'm running 10.7.4 and it's not working for me either so this isn't just a "your OS is too old" issue. They broke the game. Evidently even the people who do get the game running, they totally broke command-click (for everyone, it seems). Dude, yeah. I'm one of the few fortunate enough to have it run okay, but guess what? Motherfuckin' Blizz decided to outright remove "command+click" functionality completely. Whether it was a mistake (how does a dev team make such a mistake without realizing it?) or a really poor idea, there really is no good excuse for it. So even when you get your game up and running, you're going to have to re-learn your mechanics entirely using right click, or using move command and other hotkeys to accomplish what command+click used to do (right click alternative). It doesn't sound like much to non-Mac users, but if you've been using command+click your entire history playing games, not having it is like telling someone to start from scratch with a new set of controls. All your muscle memory is gone. Everything just feels weird. I feel like I'm playing at a platinum level now thanks to this little hiccup Huh, that's interesting. I know Blizzard is looking into it (it was a mistake), but I never considered using command-click. Always right-click with command key disabled.
Agree. Is it even possible to be high level using command click?
But yeah I'm having these same problems on 10.6.8. currently re-downloading the whole game to see if that works. Each step of the way was a new problem so I'm trying to start fresh again. What a waste of my life.
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On August 05 2012 11:38 FlattLine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 13:14 iamcaustic wrote:On August 04 2012 00:59 FallDownMarigold wrote:On August 02 2012 01:05 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:
The fact that they're dropping support for 10.5.8 after it working for 2 years is pretty ridiculous. I understand their technological reasons for doing it, but they're literally changing the system requirements AFTER people have bought the game. That's a huge problem.
I'm running 10.7.4 and it's not working for me either so this isn't just a "your OS is too old" issue. They broke the game. Evidently even the people who do get the game running, they totally broke command-click (for everyone, it seems). Dude, yeah. I'm one of the few fortunate enough to have it run okay, but guess what? Motherfuckin' Blizz decided to outright remove "command+click" functionality completely. Whether it was a mistake (how does a dev team make such a mistake without realizing it?) or a really poor idea, there really is no good excuse for it. So even when you get your game up and running, you're going to have to re-learn your mechanics entirely using right click, or using move command and other hotkeys to accomplish what command+click used to do (right click alternative). It doesn't sound like much to non-Mac users, but if you've been using command+click your entire history playing games, not having it is like telling someone to start from scratch with a new set of controls. All your muscle memory is gone. Everything just feels weird. I feel like I'm playing at a platinum level now thanks to this little hiccup Huh, that's interesting. I know Blizzard is looking into it (it was a mistake), but I never considered using command-click. Always right-click with command key disabled. Agree. Is it even possible to be high level using command click? But yeah I'm having these same problems on 10.6.8. currently re-downloading the whole game to see if that works. Each step of the way was a new problem so I'm trying to start fresh again. What a waste of my life.
I have to say this every two months, so here it is: I'm a low master zerg who uses the trackpad and command-click on an older MBP. Does that count as high level? Certainly I don't feel like the setup holds me back.
Also, I am currently not playing 1v1 because even though I have a solid mouse I can use (who doesn't?), it just isn't the same. It's like using a different keyboard, or the wrong settings, or something. I don't anticipate returning to 1v1 unless the command-click issue goes away, as I've played this way for 4+ years now (did this in BW, too). Yes, it's that bad.
Even worse, I use a special left-handed version of the backspace inject method that works well with the trackpad position on the MBP, so my primary inject method is nearly unusable. I used to play random in team games with some buddies of mine, now I just select terran or protoss because if I play zerg, it makes me cringe every time I try to inject.
p.s. I'm on 10.6.8, and I delete the whole ~/Library/App Support/Blizzard/Starcraft 2 folder every time I want to start it up. A giant hassle, yes, but that gets it to work guaranteed, though it of course wipes the settings/replays/saves.
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My problem was that My OS wasn't going to be supported anymore. I never read the post about them not supporting it anymore. Such is life. Yeah, btw. 10.5.8 won't work, no matter what fix you attempt.
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On August 05 2012 11:38 FlattLine wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 13:14 iamcaustic wrote:On August 04 2012 00:59 FallDownMarigold wrote:On August 02 2012 01:05 SwordfishConspiracy wrote:
The fact that they're dropping support for 10.5.8 after it working for 2 years is pretty ridiculous. I understand their technological reasons for doing it, but they're literally changing the system requirements AFTER people have bought the game. That's a huge problem.
I'm running 10.7.4 and it's not working for me either so this isn't just a "your OS is too old" issue. They broke the game. Evidently even the people who do get the game running, they totally broke command-click (for everyone, it seems). Dude, yeah. I'm one of the few fortunate enough to have it run okay, but guess what? Motherfuckin' Blizz decided to outright remove "command+click" functionality completely. Whether it was a mistake (how does a dev team make such a mistake without realizing it?) or a really poor idea, there really is no good excuse for it. So even when you get your game up and running, you're going to have to re-learn your mechanics entirely using right click, or using move command and other hotkeys to accomplish what command+click used to do (right click alternative). It doesn't sound like much to non-Mac users, but if you've been using command+click your entire history playing games, not having it is like telling someone to start from scratch with a new set of controls. All your muscle memory is gone. Everything just feels weird. I feel like I'm playing at a platinum level now thanks to this little hiccup Huh, that's interesting. I know Blizzard is looking into it (it was a mistake), but I never considered using command-click. Always right-click with command key disabled. Agree. Is it even possible to be high level using command click? But yeah I'm having these same problems on 10.6.8. currently re-downloading the whole game to see if that works. Each step of the way was a new problem so I'm trying to start fresh again. What a waste of my life.
Uh... Obviously? Why would command+click preclude high level play? Trackpad scrolling I'm skeptical of, but command+click inhibits nothing if you're used to it.
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I've quit SC2 because of this patch. Pretty great actually.
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United Kingdom1381 Posts
2010 Macbook Pro, just tried out the 1.5.1 patch, and no improvement in FPS.
Im getting 20 fps watching 1v1 replays and down to 1 fps in 4v4s, while also experiencing high CPU temperatures (97 degrees). Pre-patch I could comfortably play 1v1 and only had to downvote District 10, where I experienced some lag.
Im going to investigate improving cooling and removing any dust but SC2 is now unplayable.
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You really think Blizzard cares about Mac users? Ha!
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Hey, so I figured I'd let things blow over and wait for patch 1.5.1. Finally played my first game since 1.5 today, and wow, did Blizzard mess things up!
* Sound at 90%, can barely hear anything.
* Bnet UI is so unresponsive. Hover events (cursor over a button) take at least 0.2 seconds to fire, so I can twirl my cursor around and only see two buttons highlight the whole time.
* Mouse precision and speed is all jacked up. I had mine at 70% which somehow became horribly slow. Still felt slow at 90%.
* The keyboard! When SC2/Launcher is open, basically all keyboard events are broken. Command-tab between Applications is slow and upredictable, QuickSilver can't be activated, basically *all* OS keyboard shortcuts are broken simply when the application is running. Further, the entire OS lags horribly with SC2 open.
All of these things are regressions. They took a PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING GAME and BROKE IT. I'm never buying another Blizzard product for the Mac, and I'm going to make sure that all the Mac users I know are aware of this terrible customer treatment. Thanks a flippin lot.
The silver lining is that this finally pushed me to get off my ass and get Windows running and I'm loving BW on Windows. Obviously I'm not going to waste the time and bandwidth downloading SC2 to Windows when I have BW there...damn shame I don't have a game to play when I'm on the Mac, and I have to reboot to Windows every time I want to play a game.
NOTE: I'm on what was the newest model iMac when SC2 was released, running OSX 10.8. Inexcusable.
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Northern Ireland26214 Posts
On August 11 2012 02:22 pigmanbear wrote:
Hey, so I figured I'd let things blow over and wait for patch 1.5.1. Finally played my first game since 1.5 today, and wow, did Blizzard mess things up!
* Sound at 90%, can barely hear anything.
* Bnet UI is so unresponsive. Hover events (cursor over a button) take at least 0.2 seconds to fire, so I can twirl my cursor around and only see two buttons highlight the whole time.
* Mouse precision and speed is all jacked up. I had mine at 70% which somehow became horribly slow. Still felt slow at 90%.
* The keyboard! When SC2/Launcher is open, basically all keyboard events are broken. Command-tab between Applications is slow and upredictable, QuickSilver can't be activated, basically *all* OS keyboard shortcuts are broken simply when the application is running. Further, the entire OS lags horribly with SC2 open.
All of these things are regressions. They took a PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING GAME and BROKE IT. I'm never buying another Blizzard product for the Mac, and I'm going to make sure that all the Mac users I know are aware of this terrible customer treatment. Thanks a flippin lot.
The silver lining is that this finally pushed me to get off my ass and get Windows running and I'm loving BW on Windows. Obviously I'm not going to waste the time and bandwidth downloading SC2 to Windows when I have BW there...damn shame I don't have a game to play when I'm on the Mac, and I have to reboot to Windows every time I want to play a game.
NOTE: I'm on what was the newest model iMac when SC2 was released, running OSX 10.8. Inexcusable.
Shit that sounds bad, considering I think I'm on the same model with a much older OS. Trying to get a dual-boot solution instead as I've gotten fed up at how terrible the framerates I get compared to my WIndows-using friends, often who are using worse hardware than me.
Still haven't even gotten the game working at all lol, for whatever reason Snow Leopard will not allow me to connect to the internet in any way, I switch between it and the backup I (thankfully) made with 10.5.8, internet will work on the later automatically, will not work no matter what I do on the former.
Is just saying fuck it and running the game on a Windows partition a better solution than trying to get it working on my Mac? Considering I've heard terrible things about the patch even for those who can get it working, it seems like it'll save me from more crushing disappointment.
I'm also sickened by the community at large who just say 'lol Macs'. This is the single most egregiously incompetent thing Blizzard has managed to do in the entirety of SC2's current lifespan, and people don't give a shit because it doesn't effect them.
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On August 12 2012 07:40 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On August 11 2012 02:22 pigmanbear wrote:
Hey, so I figured I'd let things blow over and wait for patch 1.5.1. Finally played my first game since 1.5 today, and wow, did Blizzard mess things up!
* Sound at 90%, can barely hear anything.
* Bnet UI is so unresponsive. Hover events (cursor over a button) take at least 0.2 seconds to fire, so I can twirl my cursor around and only see two buttons highlight the whole time.
* Mouse precision and speed is all jacked up. I had mine at 70% which somehow became horribly slow. Still felt slow at 90%.
* The keyboard! When SC2/Launcher is open, basically all keyboard events are broken. Command-tab between Applications is slow and upredictable, QuickSilver can't be activated, basically *all* OS keyboard shortcuts are broken simply when the application is running. Further, the entire OS lags horribly with SC2 open.
All of these things are regressions. They took a PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING GAME and BROKE IT. I'm never buying another Blizzard product for the Mac, and I'm going to make sure that all the Mac users I know are aware of this terrible customer treatment. Thanks a flippin lot.
The silver lining is that this finally pushed me to get off my ass and get Windows running and I'm loving BW on Windows. Obviously I'm not going to waste the time and bandwidth downloading SC2 to Windows when I have BW there...damn shame I don't have a game to play when I'm on the Mac, and I have to reboot to Windows every time I want to play a game.
NOTE: I'm on what was the newest model iMac when SC2 was released, running OSX 10.8. Inexcusable. Shit that sounds bad, considering I think I'm on the same model with a much older OS. Trying to get a dual-boot solution instead as I've gotten fed up at how terrible the framerates I get compared to my WIndows-using friends, often who are using worse hardware than me. Still haven't even gotten the game working at all lol, for whatever reason Snow Leopard will not allow me to connect to the internet in any way, I switch between it and the backup I (thankfully) made with 10.5.8, internet will work on the later automatically, will not work no matter what I do on the former. Is just saying fuck it and running the game on a Windows partition a better solution than trying to get it working on my Mac? Considering I've heard terrible things about the patch even for those who can get it working, it seems like it'll save me from more crushing disappointment. I'm also sickened by the community at large who just say 'lol Macs'. This is the single most egregiously incompetent thing Blizzard has managed to do in the entirety of SC2's current lifespan, and people don't give a shit because it doesn't effect them.
True that
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EPT
