EPTOn July 18 2012 08:08 baby elephant wrote:
naked
naked
wow man! you really did think it over didn't you?
How to present females in the SCII-community? - Page 2
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SilSol
Sweden2744 Posts
wow man! you really did think it over didn't you? | ||
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ZombieGrub
United States719 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:09 Vildhjerta wrote: I personally feel like I'd rather have only competent casters etc if there were no good female ones. But I know there are, and that's why I'm disturbed by the fact that the girls asked to do these jobs are not the ones who should be asked, but they are models chosen for their looks. Do you not think that attitude might work against women trying to get into the scene as well? If the general opinion is "there are no good female casters etc", it might be dificult for a female to step forward and get accepted, even if she IS as good as any other caster. Does she get the same chances? I have no doubt there are some competent casters who are girls out there (I'd like to consider myself one ): ), but does anyone know about them? I wouldn't be surprised if you asked anyone in charge of hiring and they said only five girls applied and all of them had the same knowledge as this chick or that chick. To think such a statement as 'there are no good female casters' as a truth that will be applied to anyone who tries, however, would be the part I have a problem with. But for now, is the pool of applicants just too small to say they picked ___ because she was prettier than the other, more knowledgeable girls? I think so. When girls who are in masters and have worked their way up start having a presence but are still denied, I'd be worried. Right now, however, I have to honestly say I don't know any who fit that standard. They're either trying to be a player or just not interested in casting, or like me, have only recently started dedicating myself to improving and don't deserve a big-name gig. Although, if you know of any women who are casting and being dedicated, etc etc, that I don't know about, I'd like to know who. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote: Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke. You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly. You can make the argument that it did cause immeasurable harm, especially from wary first time viewers who saw the production and quickly came to an incorrect conclusion about the scene combining what they saw with the stereotype of fat, horny nerds. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27329 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote: How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird. How many male hosts are picked solely as eye candy? Hell I liked that Soe girl, seemed to know her stuff and has a real history in E-sports, nothing wrong with somebody like her being employed in a presenting capacity. | ||
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Vildhjerta
Sweden20 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:22 Benjamin99 wrote: Allmost every spot got host/interviewer etc as hot women becuase most sport viewers are males. Why in gods name do you think it should be different in sc2?. PersonallyI like it it tells the world we just a normal sport like everything els. I simply cant understand why everytime there is a women in the sc2 community we get post like these. We sound like sexist, unsecure nerds. Just enjoy the show and watch Esport grow and dont be affraid of a pair of tits plz Hahaha. It is not the tits that scare me, it is your kind of attitude. I did not ever say that other sports were any different; why would they be? It is however irrelevant that e-sports is like most sports, what you call "normal", because it doesn't mean that its good. I am writing specifically about e-sports here because, well.. this is TeamLiquid, not some soccer-page, right? | ||
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Blazinghand
United States25562 Posts
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Fumble
156 Posts
How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show. If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization. | ||
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tehemperorer
United States2183 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:25 ZombieGrub wrote: I have no doubt there are some competent casters who are girls out there (I'd like to consider myself one ): ), but does anyone know about them? I wouldn't be surprised if you asked anyone in charge of hiring and they said only five girls applied and all of them had the same knowledge as this chick or that chick. To think such a statement as 'there are no good female casters' as a truth that will be applied to anyone who tries, however, would be the part I have a problem with. But for now, is the pool of applicants just too small to say they picked ___ because she was prettier than the other, more knowledgeable girls? I think so. When girls who are in masters and have worked their way up start having a presence but are still denied, I'd be worried. Right now, however, I have to honestly say I don't know any who fit that standard. They're either trying to be a player or just not interested in casting, or like me, have only recently started dedicating myself to improving and don't deserve a big-name gig. Although, if you know of any women who are casting and being dedicated, etc etc, that I don't know about, I'd like to know who. I'd agree, who says Lauren didn't have social skills they were looking for that other applicants lacked? She might have been chosen for that reason, she could just happen to be a normal well-adjusted person that doesn't know too much about SC2. | ||
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hjkim1304
Korea (South)105 Posts
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MVega
763 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:22 Facultyadjutant wrote: Basically here is the problem. There isn´t really any misogyny and sexism out there that is genuine. But it is riddled with this jokish culture, look at the mma thread; about half of it is jokes about how mma banged eve or jessica. The problem is just that everyone is trying to be an (awful) comedian, and joking on a woman´s expense (No knowledge, no skill, looks etc.) is something people can easily take a jab at. Whaaaaa? There is plenty of real misogyny and sexism in the world, and there is even some in our small eSports niche. I'd like to think it was all "just jokes", but it's not. Not that it matters because even jokes can be hurtful and demeaning towards the women in esports, our community, and basically anywhere in the world. On July 18 2012 08:24 Kreb wrote: How to present females? Like any other normal human being. Its when you make their sex a huge deal things start to get weird. Pretty much, yeah. | ||
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willoc
Canada1530 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:28 Fumble wrote: I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did. How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show. If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization. So... the gist of your message is that unattractive people are unprofessional? I was hoping you meant ungroomed but you said unattractive. Also, what's so unprofessional about a dude handing out awards? | ||
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emythrel
United Kingdom2599 Posts
I'm sure there are many subjects on which Lauren can speak with expertise and poise but starcraft isn't one of them. Soe, Floe, Uncontrollable (Anna) and many other girls who are stunning to look at are already in this community, why aren't they being used? I just don't understand. They are all hotter than Lauren, partly because they just are better looking but more importantly they are hotter cause they are in to the same things as we are and who doesn't pray for the day their gf asks to play Stracraft with them? If only so they won't moan at you anymore about it! | ||
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Vildhjerta
Sweden20 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:22 CounterOrder wrote: Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? I dont get it, i dont think this community considers women a joke. You cant seriously make the argument that that chick caused any harm at all, or that anyone else would in her position. Its silly. Faculty: The problem is that those are posts posted by 13-15 year olds. They really shouldnt be given any weight and those people should honestly have gotten temp banned. Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example? I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p | ||
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aTnClouD
Italy2428 Posts
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Forikorder
Canada8840 Posts
she probably knows as much about SC2 as clutch does (or at least dispalyed as much information) hosts are not hired to be commentators, they dont need to hire someone who knows how to hold a 4 gate or can take a safe fast 3rd on cloud kingdom, when they have an interview they dont ahve a laptop and ask them to ladder a couple games they hire a host to get people exited and do stuff hosts generally do and she did a great job at that ill never understand why people constantly try to treat females differently in such a vocal way and then say its for gender equality, if you wanted gender equality this thread wouldnt exist because there would be no reason for it too, its like wining that they didnt hire a stereotypical nerd to be there host saying Lauren shouldnt have been hired because shes hot and doesnt know starcraft makes no sense Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example? I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness i was at the event, and i dont remember Clutch ever having to at any point in time (aside from casting a match i think...? memories of the event fuzzy to much awesome) demonstrating SC2 knowledge all the host needs to know is the name of the game, the casters and the palyers thats all they need to know | ||
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Magic_Mike
United States542 Posts
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CounterOrder
Canada457 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:26 tehemperorer wrote: You can make the argument that it did cause immeasurable harm, especially from wary first time viewers who saw the production and quickly came to an incorrect conclusion about the scene combining what they saw with the stereotype of fat, horny nerds. I dont see how that argument could be made actually. Thats quite silly. | ||
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Domus
510 Posts
As for the question about should they be hired for e-sports? I think it is an event choice. I don't have anything against hiring women because they are beautiful. They are hired because they bring a sexy presentation to an event. If the event wants this presentation, then that is their choice. I think it is unfair to call woman just beautiful as if they don't work hard to get to that point. They do need to work to stay in shape, work on how they present themselves,etc. In other words, it is also a job to them, and it is a competitive job. I don't inherently mind if someone is hired for how their bodies look. I mean, a person of average intelligence and capabilities can also say that it is unfair that someone with superior intelligence gets more possibilities in life. | ||
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CounterOrder
Canada457 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:32 Vildhjerta wrote: Having a hot host makes it harder to take women seriously? My answer: No, but the host is in this case not related to SCII at all. Lets say there was a guy host that knew nothing about esports, do you think he would be appreciated? I would at least be thinking "what the hell is that guy doing here? why dont we get someone who knows what he's talking about?". The answer would in the case I wrote about ofc be "because she's good looking". Isn't it harmful that a woman with a non-existing relation to the community has been hired instead of a well-informed one, for an example? I stand by what I previously wrote, and agree to disagree on your claim of silliness :p It was never her job to know or talk about anything. If it was then you would have a point. | ||
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Vildhjerta
Sweden20 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:28 Fumble wrote: I dont understand the issue. I was at the event and in no way did her lack of starcraft knowledge impede with what she did. She was a model for the NASL event, she helped hand out prizes and lead players to their booths. She was perfectly qualified for what she did. How come you arn't ripping on other senseless things? What about the cameraman that was at NASL. He did not look like he knew anything about starcraft. What about the truck drivers that drove all the equipment up? Hmmm.... sounds like NASL had a lot of unqualified people helping run the show. If your issue has to do with the social implications of having women objectified in front of thousands of viewers then you are posting on the wrong forum. Every industry does it and although that is a more debatable issue, it only goes in circles. Quite frankly, if they had an unattractive girl or a dude do the same thing as what Lauren was doing, I would of thought NASL was such an unprofessional organization. As I wrote in the original post, I am also relating it to how (in my experience) some people are whining about women getting more attention than men. | ||
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