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Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers.
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On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers.
I wonder if this will cause them to make overseers more expensive (maybe buff their spells a bit while you're at it), or at least increase their build time.
Either way DT/cloakshee builds won't probably be a very good choice against Z.
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On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers.
Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then.
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for the ZvP i like how they describe the map as big when it is actually relatively small.
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On June 13 2012 08:34 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:34 Umpteen wrote:On June 13 2012 07:05 GinDo wrote:On June 13 2012 06:55 Horseballs wrote:
I don't like the idea of mines being a unit as they are right now - why not give hellions spider mines like vultures? Seige tanks already were made to be 3 supply and less effective, and now we have to sink additional supply into our mines too? I thought this was supposed to make mech better. I brought this up a few pages back. I hope they play around with the idea that tanks can be two food. Personally I feel that this, and the Spidermine was what made mech work in BW in the first place. Lowering the food count only makes tanks stronger in the late game, which is where Mech is suffering the most. Often in head to head confrontations, the Terran Mech comes out even with Protoss. This is bad. Since Protoss can instantly reinforce against the slow reinforcement Mech. A 2 food tank would make a more durable army. I would also like them to, like you suggested, give Mines to the Hellion. But, I feel that the mines must still be purchased and then placed, much like scarabs in BW. maybe even give the hellion a 3 Mine storage limit. Basically, I can purchase 3 mines off of my hellion, run around, drop one, and purchase another. Being able to replenish mines without replenishing the vulture (hellion) doesn't sound like a big change but it's actually huge. In BW you got 3 mines per vulture, and each vulture took 30 seconds to produce. So 1 mine per 10 seconds per factory devoted to the task. In HotS mines take 20 seconds to produce - and you can reactor them, so again it's 1 mine per 10 seconds per factory. But if you can buy mines directly on your hellions, production is now only limited by hellion count, and doesn't consume factory time either. That's a pretty scary prospect  But if you make mines a research, you force a techlab. So no reactored Hellions.
That kind of misses the point. The scary part wouldn't be in the early game on one base, it would be in the late game when there are 20 hellions on the map capable of making 60 mines in a minute. Obviously that's not a sustainable rate of production, but as a burst - pretty terrifying
Ony the other hand, requiring the hellions to place the mines would be an equally big change. The thing I liked least about the widow mines from the battle report was that they have next to zero threat priority when unburrowed, so rather than rewarding good flanking they actually work best clumped up in the rest of the ball.
Close second was that Protoss have no good micro options against them.
Third was that although Blizzard are making noises about friendly splash, it won't be much use because the mines don't go off if the unit dies - which it will if it tries to sit next to the enemy for 10 seconds. And they can't make it go off when the unit dies because that would effectively make widow mines a 200dps+splash upgrade for marines.
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On June 13 2012 07:01 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 05:35 teamhozac wrote:On June 13 2012 05:31 TigerKarl wrote:On June 13 2012 05:28 teamhozac wrote:On June 13 2012 03:00 Plansix wrote:On June 12 2012 23:46 SarcasmMonster wrote:
"The widow mine really helps shut down attack path ways. These widow mines are like manually controlled spider mines from Starcraft 1." - Day[9] during the TvZ Battle Report
Does this mean that they only attack when commanded to? ie. Zerglings running over them won't force them to detonate? I hope so, that would make the unit quite good. These are the things I want to know. If the mine will always attack if an enemy unit comes close enough, they are not that great. But if you can command to attack or just turn on the auto cast ability, they could be really deadly. You could plant them and set them off when a major engagement is taking place(not on the same screen) In late game, they could be used to deny expansions or be set in or behind the "future" mineral lines where players commonly take 4th bases. These could be set off during major battles to truely tax you opponent. I really hope that terrans can control when the mines attack. I hope there is an option for auto cast/detonate... youre not always going to be able to monitor your mines, especially if you have a lot of them actually it's the other way around, the game needs more things that can distinguish between skilled and less skilled players. micro for the other two races is basically non existant right now. . I wonder which race you play...
I think what he means is that other then Marine Splitting(which is an intensive Terran Micro), Protoss, and Zerg lack comparable micro intensive actions that they can perform. Not that these races are harder or easier to play. But they simply lack crazy micro.
In BW we had Marine splitting, Protoss Shuttle Reaver, Wraith Stacking, Muta Stacking, and Dragoon Mine Sniping.
Hopefully, HOTS bring in more Micro into the game. Interestingly enough it seems that most intense micro actions involve volatile units: Reaver, Spider Mines, Banlings, Lurker; and/or Fast units: Wraith, Muta, Hellion, Vulture, Shuttle, Stimmed Bio.
Stacking is dead of course with the addition of unlimited units in a control group.
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On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers.
Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots.
On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then.
I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time.
That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me.
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On June 15 2012 03:23 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then. I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time. That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me.
Why don't the just give Ovies detection?
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On June 15 2012 03:31 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 03:23 blade55555 wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots. On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then. I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time. That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me. Why don't the just give Ovies detection?
I don't know  . I have still been trying to figure it out how zergs lost that ability for sc2 T_T
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On June 15 2012 03:31 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 03:23 blade55555 wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots. On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then. I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time. That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me. Why don't the just give Ovies detection?
Because detection is supposed to be an investment and giving one race free detection limits strategic options against that race.
"But BW did it!" I know I know, but BW wasn't perfect either. Shocking.
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On June 15 2012 03:31 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 03:31 GinDo wrote:On June 15 2012 03:23 blade55555 wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots. On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then. I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time. That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me. Why don't the just give Ovies detection? I don't know . I have still been trying to figure it out how zergs lost that ability for sc2 T_T
EDIT: NVM
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On June 15 2012 03:38 Bagi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 03:31 GinDo wrote:On June 15 2012 03:23 blade55555 wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots. On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then. I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time. That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me. Why don't the just give Ovies detection? Because detection is supposed to be an investment and giving one race free detection limits strategic options against that race. "But BW did it!" I know I know, but BW wasn't perfect either. Shocking.
in BW was right because you can kill ovi easily with some units in the game.
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On June 15 2012 03:23 blade55555 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots. Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then. I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time. That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me.
Now if they just gave protoss something besides the obs to hunt down mines I guess we are supposed to always make a robo anyway, but sometimes I like to just go straight to HT tech, and now that might not work. But I'll withhold proper judgement until it comes out
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On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers.
How does symmetrical and commodity detection equal blizzard's goal of racial diversity? This is getting worse...
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On June 15 2012 04:21 ThirdDegree wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2012 03:23 blade55555 wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Oh no shit? You don't need lair? If so that's badass and hope this stays in hots. On June 13 2012 16:00 Amlitzer wrote:On June 13 2012 08:48 eNtitY~ wrote:
Not sure if this has been said yet but the Evo chamber was all the needed tech for overseers. Hopefully this means the overlord speed buff isn't present in HotS then. I have a feeling overseers are available from evo chambers because of the widow mines not for scouting. Which makes since as it would be ridiculous if zerg can't detect mines until they get lair tech which means when terrans rush for widow mines they have complete map control for a long time. That was one of my concerns about the widow mine but if you can get overseers after making an evo chamber that concern is gone for me. Now if they just gave protoss something besides the obs to hunt down mines I guess we are supposed to always make a robo anyway, but sometimes I like to just go straight to HT tech, and now that might not work. But I'll withhold proper judgement until it comes out
Well you could always Storm the Mines
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I have decided that I really don't like the abduct ability, it just seems to negate careful army placement.
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On June 12 2012 14:46 sluggaslamoo wrote:
In theory it sounds bad, but in practice its actually good. BW TvP packs a ton more action than SC2 TvP, even given these parameters.What produces stalemates is actually not being able to achieve map control and not enough defenders advantage, causing turtle to 200/200 because without positional units or defenders advantage, if you lose your army its gg.
For me, in Sctoo, being able to select and put all of your units on one hotkey, has been the main cause for 200/200 turtling.
If your opponent has a deathball roaming the map, in most cases, you're just putting yourself at a disadvantage by splitting up your army.
Too often in Sctoo, do you see a player lose a small chunk of their army and precede to get steamrolled by a deathball.
Also, I feel that Xelnaga and Sensor towers, give too much reward for not enough effort.
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I just realized something; if the mechanics are the same as in WoL, then the Warhounds "Haywire" ability can go through immortals shields.
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On June 13 2012 08:34 GinDo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:34 Umpteen wrote:On June 13 2012 07:05 GinDo wrote:On June 13 2012 06:55 Horseballs wrote:
I don't like the idea of mines being a unit as they are right now - why not give hellions spider mines like vultures? Seige tanks already were made to be 3 supply and less effective, and now we have to sink additional supply into our mines too? I thought this was supposed to make mech better. I brought this up a few pages back. I hope they play around with the idea that tanks can be two food. Personally I feel that this, and the Spidermine was what made mech work in BW in the first place. Lowering the food count only makes tanks stronger in the late game, which is where Mech is suffering the most. Often in head to head confrontations, the Terran Mech comes out even with Protoss. This is bad. Since Protoss can instantly reinforce against the slow reinforcement Mech. A 2 food tank would make a more durable army. I would also like them to, like you suggested, give Mines to the Hellion. But, I feel that the mines must still be purchased and then placed, much like scarabs in BW. maybe even give the hellion a 3 Mine storage limit. Basically, I can purchase 3 mines off of my hellion, run around, drop one, and purchase another. Being able to replenish mines without replenishing the vulture (hellion) doesn't sound like a big change but it's actually huge. In BW you got 3 mines per vulture, and each vulture took 30 seconds to produce. So 1 mine per 10 seconds per factory devoted to the task. In HotS mines take 20 seconds to produce - and you can reactor them, so again it's 1 mine per 10 seconds per factory. But if you can buy mines directly on your hellions, production is now only limited by hellion count, and doesn't consume factory time either. That's a pretty scary prospect But if you make mines a research, you force a techlab. So no reactored Hellions.
I don't see why everyone wants to make the Hellion a Vulture-wannabe. They're two very different units.
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On June 15 2012 05:45 danakaz wrote:
I have decided that I really don't like the abduct ability, it just seems to negate careful army placement.
if anything it makes it even more crucial so that your main units can attack the vipers before they can use grab
and hell, the ranged could be reduced in beta, that battle report is nothing to go by
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EPT
