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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 13:08 bokchoi wrote:
So Leenock gives tips to a player and is considered a cheater? LOL??
SUPPOSEDLY, NaNiwa was watching the replay of the games vs NesTea mid-series, which MLG actually has rules against.
i thought everybody knew about naniwas stuff but didnt care especially because they wanted him to beat nestea
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Catz showed some really important evidence on his stream however there is a chance it could just be dumb luck, I really hope hes not being wrongly accused, he provided over 100+ games of evidence which not alot of hackers would do, the thing I don't understand is the scans he did which were completely out of range of his camera movements, if Spades can defend that point I think 80% of people would be off his back
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"They are biased! They already watched the replays!"
WTF are you guys even saying!?!? Do you think they were also biased the first time? I honestly have no idea what you guys are even talking about.
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I always wondered why any team would be stupid enough to sign a blacklisted BW player to their team in SC2, so when Spades was getting all that attention, I had to hold my tongue, but I'm not surprised it turned out this way.
Anyway, the evidence looks pretty conclusive to me, and IMO I think the truth has come out. Anyone who defends Spades after watching the Catz/Illusion/Drewbie/TT1 analysis has to be viewed at with suspicion at this point.
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On June 05 2012 13:07 CortoMontez wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:01 TechNoTrance wrote:
I would really like to see an explanation of how his scanning "technique" changed so drastically between regular ladder games and important ones like vs Lucifron. It really does seem physically impossible as well as almost completely improbable. It has been acknowledged by both sides that there are minor flaws in the replay system, where the screen camera can be slightly delayed or off of the actual location. The scans which were shown from Spades' stream (used by Catz to 'compare') had the center of the scan near the very edge of his screen, and it was only there for a split second before he moved away. This is almost entirely consistent with what was seen in the replay, except in the replay he pulled back slightly sooner. The 'magic scans' can only be confirmed as a hack or not by comparing it with a REPLAY, not an FPVoD, as the replay can show different things than a vod. Of course, this only addresses the 'magic scan' issue, but I'm sure that a test replay of this type of scan shouldn't be hard to find (maybe Spades can provide one?)
Agree with this, we need Spades to provide the replay of the vod showed by catz where he scans on the edge, to see if it's represented correctly in the replay.
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Ok what I don't understand is that Lastshadow was caught cheating in BW but now hes allowed to play at tournaments and actually have a career!? So I guess things like this don't matter much? I mean even Day 9 backs that guy up... so if hes allowed to have a career after actually being caught maybe spades should just disappear for a while and come back and everything will be ok.
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The reason I believe Spades hacks, is because of the mechanics. He plays totally differently (mechanically) on Non-Hack games vs Hack games.
Lucky and suspisions movement.. yeah that was fucking wierd.
But those mechanics of never going into FoW, convincing as fuck.
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Btw, you guys should also check out Spades's FPVods from his streams to see the differences between these showmatch games and his ladder games. I notice that, while he doesn't look into fog of war constantly, he does do it to move his army, not the minimap. However, he does use the mini-map for far-away scans, but close scans, like the "miracle scans" pointed out on stream, are done with the cursor on the actual screen.
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i hope this comment doesnt get washed out,
but just wondering, has lucifron said anything about their showmatch and the spades hacking speculation?
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there is a diffrence between not guilty and innocent...
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On June 05 2012 13:07 treekiller wrote:
Only an idiot would think Spades is hacking.
Did you review every single replay and all evidence?
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On June 05 2012 13:09 swinkles wrote:Poll: Spades hacking?Yes (221) 77% Not Enough Proof, Must be declared innocent (46) 16% No (19) 7% 286 total votes Your vote: Spades hacking? (Vote): No
(Vote): Yes
(Vote): Not Enough Proof, Must be declared innocent
let's make it official
I'm not voting in this poll because it is a bad idea to have it in the first place. (I do think spades hack though)
The bronze-master masses should not decide whether or not a pro-gamer hacks.
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3xdAO.jpg)
User was warned for this post
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On June 05 2012 13:04 StarBrift wrote:
"Pro" players coming into this thread defending Spades without even watching the CONCLUSIVE evidence. The camera locks + the magic scan is undisputable evidence of his guilt. Undisputable. It was shown several times and the actions made no logical sense if you assume he isn't cheating. All the circumstantial evidence just compounds it even further. Take hisn history and Franks testimony of his character and this is the biggest no brainer in the history of investigations. If this was a real offense and a court trial he would be recieving a guilty sentence in 99 out of a 100 cases.
Please stop jumping on the bandwagon of trying to apear fair and reasonable (or scientific) when you're ignoring VERY strong evidence.
Please stop misusing the word conclusive. Conclusive would mean you had a program monitoring Spades' computer or a witness to him actually cheating. You have a bunch of CIRCUMSTANTIAL evidence, that when taken all together appears very damning. If that is enough to convince you, then go ahead and say that. However, saying there is conclusive evidence when there is not is silly.
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Can someone do a Fpvod/replay side by side of almost off screen scans? It would be really interesting to see if the replay player camera is actually exactly on, or if it is slightly off which can result in "magic scans".
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On June 05 2012 13:01 storkman wrote:
Idk why everyone is so butt hurt over him hacking i gaurentee 99% of you will never play him on ladder and even if he does win on ladder what does he gain? There isn't a cash prize of a million dollars if he is number one on gm. Him cheating which looks pretty apparent to me really doesn't help him get any better at Sc so really if anything its hurting him get better at Sc.
No i'm not saying hacking is right or that he doesn't hack but who cares? Yes cheating is wrong but it's not like he is using cheating to gain anything real(as much as many of you believe that ladder points are real to be truth full they aren't) So for everyone hating him for doing this it's quite ridiculous.
and to sideburn i agree 100 percent that the fact that everyone here would get this angry and upset is really silly and extremely sad and that a community as great as this one would lash out and try to ruin this guys career because he got some extra ladder points.
I imagine the people in GM and Masters who play him would care and get cheated out of wins would care. He's also taking up a GM spot of somebody who deserves it. I don't have to be personally effected to think its a scummy thing to do.
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looks pretty cut and dried to here to me.
Hackers gon hack. Hopefully he drops out of the scene and moves on to LoL or something else. This can't be tolerated.
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feel pretty bad for spades, hacking or not his career is ruined.
the real things that matter is offline, but reputation matters because of sponsors and such. time for a new job i suppose, eh spades?
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EPT
