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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 07 2012 07:28 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:17 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 06:58 StarStrider wrote:
Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that.
Spades....
This.
This would help us compare and contrast your game play and determine if your games in question were really legit.
This would help you practice for Anaheim.
This would possibly help exhonerate your name.
This would get you stream revenue since the Spades name is huge right now.
WHY would you not do this? Its a win on all fronts.
Please say you'll do it, or say you won't do it and why. Then you can go back to ignoring this thread.
His play would be affected by worrying about making the right moves and what people would think of him and how they would analyze it? Then how the hell is he supposed to compete normally in Anaheim at this point? Further, stream chat can be disabled, that's the first thing I would do if I were him. He's training anyway (according to him). He may as well stream it. If he cares about his career at all the reasons not to do it are FAR outweighed by the reasons to do it. I would like to hear a response from SPADES, as I requested, not anyone else.This could be your one last chance to redeem your name Spades. He doesn't owe you shit. Its an accusation. Spades has placed well in offline events before. 99% of people accusing him don't even know what to look for. They just base their opinions off hearsay.
You're right. But if he cares about clearing his name at all, he would oblige.
Also I'd be interested to know how you arrived at that percentage buddy.
He did respond to me. I think he understands what I'm saying. He said he doesn't want to stream right now. It's probably because he's practicing tourney build orders.
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On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that?
It's not about 'ever' playing like that, it's about mechanics like that being characteristic of his play.
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On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that?
The point is if he doesn't play that way, it shows how unlikely that his real play is displayed in the showmatch replays.
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On June 07 2012 07:28 Mellowman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:41 Nizzy wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Spades, giX comments confirmed it for me. I'm sorry bud but back in 2010 when I was 2nd in lead of elevengaming (xiNizzy) and when we had to play VT, you were our "joke" guy. We were short one clan match and had our team manager match you one day (Zerg) and because we knew you never attacked Zergs (from xiLost playing vs you a lot on ladder) and just turtled we made him do a strat just vs you, and he beat you. Our Manager. This was in late 2010/early 2011 when you could still be considered good. I feel really bad for the person that spent money on you to go to Korea. Why anyone would market a team around you as the leader is beyond me. I don't play this game anymore so this could be an unfair comment, however from a NA Fan's perspective you've always been terrible compared to other top NA players. You don't go from being bad -> dropping out of pro gaming team -> moving to flordia to live with parents again (alone with no in person practice partners) -> rank 1 GM next season. With better winning percents than Select & Thorzain. Are you kidding me? Please lol. Just admit you hacked, get permed, and go work at a deli shop/play poker or whatever you want. Just let it go man. Play for fun, because you can't make it as a pro anymore, its not cause you hacked, its because your simply not good enough. IF you're smart you'll realize that's not an insult but legit advice. If you're a former BW pro and aren't top 5 in NA by now after 2 years of playing the game, then you'll never be able to take games/events off Korean pros like a HuK/Illusion can. take care Spades. Repost for truth
Such a good post Nizzy.
Spades can admit he hacked and continue playing sc2...can't he? I just want the truth. I would respect him so much more as a person if we just got the truth.
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On June 07 2012 07:22 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:21 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 07:17 LuckyFool wrote:
I'm really surprised there is still discussion on this, the case should be closed. Why Spades has not admitted to it yet is beyond me. It's actually ridiculously easy to know he was hacking in some of those games. Something I'm not sure many people have done is cross reference the games where he's allegedly hacking(recent showmatch and ladder games that people have posted) vs games where we know 100% he wasn't hacking. (MLG open bracket replays, IPL3/4 open bracket replays) I have 15 or so clean spades reps saved from these events and games I've played against him where he was streaming and clearly not hacking. One of the first things I did was compare those games vs the "hacking games" and it was comical.
it's quite easy to tell when camera lock action and hacks are in full gear and when they are not. I don't really understand how people think we don't have enough proof to label him guilty. Please anyone who still has any doubt just sit down and review the actual material instead of spending so much time arguing/questioning.
There's a reason why basically all high level players who have taken the time to sit down and objectively review these replays says he's guilty. there's a reason this thread is nearly 300 pages. There's a reason a whole bunch of players have been suspicious of Spades for a while now and how quickly so much material surfaced after this thread was posted.
I'm still waiting for him to tell us if he will stream or not. A willingness to stream and a willingness to help address people's questions about his playstyle would be his last chance to salvage his name. So far....silence. If he refuses I can't help but wonder if it is because he knows it would just make it more painfully obvious the distinctions between his hackless play on stream and his shady play in those games. I streamed yesterday, I'm not streaming today. I need to actually practice builds today.
Yes he wants to do well his last weekend of gaming guys.
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On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that?
This plus Magic Scans. Also scouting without subsequently checking up on his scouting SCV. Plus randomly moving his siege tanks to the back of his base without seeing anything. Just for consistency.
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On June 07 2012 07:33 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that? This plus Magic Scans. Also scouting without subsequently checking up on his scouting SCV. Plus randomly moving his siege tanks to the back of his base without seeing anything. Just for consistency.
Is a Magic Scan scanning without having your screen on the target? Because I can do that too if you want, the replay recording system is imperfect.
If that's what it is, that also falls under the umbrella of Camera Lock Hack, which I think so far has been mostly shown to be without backing evidence.
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On June 07 2012 07:33 revel8 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that? This plus Magic Scans. Also scouting without subsequently checking up on his scouting SCV. Plus randomly moving his siege tanks to the back of his base without seeing anything. Just for consistency.
Thought magic scans were debunked? Also you can see from his streamed games that he scans from minimap, as well as issues move/attack move commands on minimap.
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On June 07 2012 07:34 EtherealDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:33 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that? This plus Magic Scans. Also scouting without subsequently checking up on his scouting SCV. Plus randomly moving his siege tanks to the back of his base without seeing anything. Just for consistency. Is a Magic Scan scanning without having your screen on the target? Because I can do that too if you want, the replay recording system is imperfect.
Magic Scans are scans that are done by scrolling up towards the fog of war. Then extremely rapidly moving the cursor into the mini-map and scanning via mini-map.
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On June 07 2012 07:35 Santiago4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:33 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that? This plus Magic Scans. Also scouting without subsequently checking up on his scouting SCV. Plus randomly moving his siege tanks to the back of his base without seeing anything. Just for consistency. Thought magic scans were debunked?
It has been shown to be possible without a hack. Is that debunking the argument? Possible =/= probable or logical. Just because theres a small chance something can actually be done without a hack doesn't mean it was likely.
It is much more likely that it was accomplished by someone able to see through fog of war.
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On June 07 2012 07:33 LuckyFool wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:28 Mellowman wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Nizzy wrote:On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Spades, giX comments confirmed it for me. I'm sorry bud but back in 2010 when I was 2nd in lead of elevengaming (xiNizzy) and when we had to play VT, you were our "joke" guy. We were short one clan match and had our team manager match you one day (Zerg) and because we knew you never attacked Zergs (from xiLost playing vs you a lot on ladder) and just turtled we made him do a strat just vs you, and he beat you. Our Manager. This was in late 2010/early 2011 when you could still be considered good. I feel really bad for the person that spent money on you to go to Korea. Why anyone would market a team around you as the leader is beyond me. I don't play this game anymore so this could be an unfair comment, however from a NA Fan's perspective you've always been terrible compared to other top NA players. You don't go from being bad -> dropping out of pro gaming team -> moving to flordia to live with parents again (alone with no in person practice partners) -> rank 1 GM next season. With better winning percents than Select & Thorzain. Are you kidding me? Please lol. Just admit you hacked, get permed, and go work at a deli shop/play poker or whatever you want. Just let it go man. Play for fun, because you can't make it as a pro anymore, its not cause you hacked, its because your simply not good enough. IF you're smart you'll realize that's not an insult but legit advice. If you're a former BW pro and aren't top 5 in NA by now after 2 years of playing the game, then you'll never be able to take games/events off Korean pros like a HuK/Illusion can. take care Spades. Repost for truth Such a good post Nizzy. Spades can admit he hacked and continue playing sc2...can't he? I just want the truth. I would respect him so much more as a person if we just got the truth.
You won't get the truth. Not from Spades atleast. He already went to extreme lengths like leaving his team and retiring from sc2 without evening attempting to defend himself. He clearly would never admit to it at this point. He is gonna tank hard at Anaheim people will start calling him a cheater again and he will retire or become casual sc2 player.
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Russian Federation396 Posts
On June 07 2012 07:35 Santiago4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:33 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that? This plus Magic Scans. Also scouting without subsequently checking up on his scouting SCV. Plus randomly moving his siege tanks to the back of his base without seeing anything. Just for consistency. Thought magic scans were debunked? Also you can see from his streamed games that he scans from minimap, as well as issues move/attack move commands on minimap.
this topic is more about 'fuk spades guise' and less about the actual content showing whether he was/was not hacking
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Spades supporters, have you read the giX post?????
PLEASE tell me you read the giX post.
Former teamates.
Former Team Manager
Pro players
What more do you need. Why give this parasite a second chance? This is harming ESPORTS
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it is obvious that he hacked in those games.. i cant believe how anyone can doubt it, after they had seen the evidence. i cant even believe how spades can even deny it. this is retarded. just tell the truth, or go to hell.
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On June 07 2012 07:38 JitnikoVi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:35 Santiago4ever wrote:On June 07 2012 07:33 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:30 Count9 wrote:
Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that? This plus Magic Scans. Also scouting without subsequently checking up on his scouting SCV. Plus randomly moving his siege tanks to the back of his base without seeing anything. Just for consistency. Thought magic scans were debunked? Also you can see from his streamed games that he scans from minimap, as well as issues move/attack move commands on minimap. this topic is more about 'fuk spades guise' and less about the actual content showing whether he was/was not hacking
No, the content has already been shown. This is people still trying to analyze it, and waiting for new content and ways to analyze it to come along (which they have).
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I want to preface this with the follow:
1) Excuse me for not reading all 263 pages
2) I am not taking a position on whether I think he is map hacking or not.
That said, if I'm correct, the consensus is that Spades never looked into the fog of war in his series against Lucifron. If this is correct, what is this?
http://i.imgur.com/u0Sft.jpg
It seems unthinkable, but it looks to me like he's looking into the fog of war and his medivac does not have any vision of his screen.
I know it's possible to implement a command to take off the screen lock, but is this news for anyone else or am I just an idiot?
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On June 07 2012 07:40 phiinix wrote:I want to preface this with the follow: 1) Excuse me for not reading all 263 pages 2) I am not taking a position on whether I think he is map hacking or not. That said, if I'm correct, the consensus is that Spades never looked into the fog of war in his series against Lucifron. If this is correct, what is this? http://i.imgur.com/u0Sft.jpgIt seems unthinkable, but it looks to me like he's looking into the fog of war and his medivac does not have any vision of his screen. I know it's possible to implement a command to take off the screen lock, but is this news for anyone else or am I just an idiot?
The theory on the hack is that the camera only snaps to where your eyes are looking through the fog of war if you perform a command there. And as you can see in your picture there is a move command being issued in that location.
His camera only appears over no-vision fog of war after a command has been performed there. Never once do we see the camera scanning the map as it would from normal screen scrolling or a left click on the minimap.
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On June 07 2012 07:40 phiinix wrote:
I want to preface this with the follow:
1) Excuse me for not reading all 263 pages
2) I am not taking a position on whether I think he is map hacking or not.
That said, if I'm correct, the consensus is that Spades never looked into the fog of war ...
No. This is not the consensus.
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On June 07 2012 07:40 phiinix wrote:I want to preface this with the follow: 1) Excuse me for not reading all 263 pages 2) I am not taking a position on whether I think he is map hacking or not. That said, if I'm correct, the consensus is that Spades never looked into the fog of war in his series against Lucifron. If this is correct, what is this? http://i.imgur.com/u0Sft.jpgIt seems unthinkable, but it looks to me like he's looking into the fog of war and his medivac does not have any vision of his screen. I know it's possible to implement a command to take off the screen lock, but is this news for anyone else or am I just an idiot?
That would appear to be him staring at fog of war. Although other circumstantial evidence surround "camera lock" included, I already think he isn't camera lock hacking. It just doesn't fit together. I even looked at the config file for the popular maphack people are talking about. That shit is disabled by default, so you'd have to turn it on manually. Instead it gives you a hotkey for activating camera lock, and you cannot perform any actions while that is taking place.
Of course that doesn't rule out production tab hack / minimap hack / maphack. I just really don't think a camera lock hack is at play.
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On June 07 2012 07:40 phiinix wrote:I want to preface this with the follow: 1) Excuse me for not reading all 263 pages 2) I am not taking a position on whether I think he is map hacking or not. That said, if I'm correct, the consensus is that Spades never looked into the fog of war in his series against Lucifron. If this is correct, what is this? http://i.imgur.com/u0Sft.jpgIt seems unthinkable, but it looks to me like he's looking into the fog of war and his medivac does not have any vision of his screen. I know it's possible to implement a command to take off the screen lock, but is this news for anyone else or am I just an idiot?
As I understand it, when you use a maphack and you are looking into the fog of war at your opponent, if you make a command like move units/build units etc, it disables the camera lock? Maybe this is the case here?
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EPT
