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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 07 2012 07:14 TheMajorNL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:08 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 07:05 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 07:03 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 07:01 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 06:58 McFeser wrote:On June 07 2012 06:48 revel8 wrote:On June 07 2012 06:43 toiletCAT wrote:On June 07 2012 06:41 Antylamon wrote:On June 07 2012 06:38 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
Seems like you're just one of his friends that registered yesterday to help defend him. man this shit is good. Yep, seems that way. Signed up today "Lives in Qatar" to avoid anyone knowing his identity Tons of his posts are in this thread, including his first I actually live in Denmark, I signed up today because I thought I wanted to interact with the TL community. Since I know you didn't think this claim through, I'll say this anyway; good luck in your attempt to prove that I'm just some goon of his, attempting to help him out. Is there anything else you would like to know that I can't possibly prove to you, one way or another? Explain that picture nonsense then. Lay off his back. You're being an ass It's a fair question. Why would he invent some dodgy evidence and post it here? When it was debunked, he claimed he was 'tired'! WTF is that about? And the same answer goes to you; if you didn't ignore every second post, you could learn something. I have read every thread in this post, mate. Still your explanation for falsifying that picture evidence is lacking. Being tired is not an explanation for such a malicious action. I don't really care about what you think, mate, I told you the truth, if you don't believe it then make a thread about it. lol! Something like "100% conclusive proof (?) that toiletCAT is a goon!" :D
Oh, nooo!!
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On June 07 2012 06:58 StarStrider wrote:
Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that.
Spades....
This.
This would help us compare and contrast your game play and determine if your games in question were really legit.
This would help you practice for Anaheim.
This would possibly help exhonerate your name.
This would get you stream revenue since the Spades name is huge right now.
WHY would you not do this? Its a win on all fronts.
Please say you'll do it, or say you won't do it and why. Then you can go back to ignoring this thread.
His play would be affected by worrying about making the right moves and what people would think of him and how they would analyze it?
Then how the hell is he supposed to compete normally in Anaheim at this point?
Further, stream chat can be disabled, that's the first thing I would do if I were him.
He's training anyway (according to him). He may as well stream it.
If he cares about his career at all the reasons not to do it are FAR outweighed by the reasons to do it.
I would like to hear a response from SPADES, as I requested, not anyone else.
This could be your one last chance to redeem your name Spades.
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I'm really surprised there is still discussion on this, the case should be closed. Why Spades has not admitted to it yet is beyond me. It's actually ridiculously easy to know he was hacking in some of those games. Something I'm not sure many people have done is cross reference the games where he's allegedly hacking(recent showmatch and ladder games that people have posted) vs games where we know 100% he wasn't hacking. (MLG open bracket replays, IPL3/4 open bracket replays) I have 15 or so clean spades reps saved from these events and games I've played against him where he was streaming and clearly not hacking. One of the first things I did was compare those games vs the "hacking games" and it was comical.
it's quite easy to tell when camera lock action and hacks are in full gear and when they are not. I don't really understand how people think we don't have enough proof to label him guilty. Please anyone who still has any doubt just sit down and review the actual material instead of spending so much time arguing/questioning.
There's a reason why basically all high level players who have taken the time to sit down and objectively review these replays says he's guilty. there's a reason this thread is nearly 300 pages. There's a reason a whole bunch of players have been suspicious of Spades for a while now and how quickly so much material surfaced after this thread was posted.
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On June 07 2012 07:09 Xyik wrote:
Not sure why people keep saying the 'burden of proof' is on the accusers .. there has been enough suspicious evidence that half the people here thinks he hacks. The burden of proof is now on Spades to perform well at Anaheim, otherwise its over for him.
I'll go one step further and say that anyone that performs poorly at Anaheim clearly is a hacker. No other reason why you would perform poorly at a LAN.
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On June 07 2012 07:14 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:08 Logo wrote:
Honestly, one of the best ways for him to clear his name would be to show to MLG and kick ass. So it makes sense not to do anything quite yet. It would, at the very least, take away from the public perception that his winrate must be from hacking.
Then he could come back from the event, use the positive attention from his performance, and stream 100% of his games (even taking the stream cheating losses) for a long while to rebuild his reputation. While ideally, if possibly attending more LAN events.
Yes yes streaming doesn't mean you aren't hacking (though Spades could get a webcam), but obviously any sort of screen locking bs is out of the question in that case.
So that would be my Spade gameplan if he's not hacking and he wants to try to clear his name. Do well at MLG then stream 100% of everything possibly with a webcam for at least a few months.
If he shows up to MLG and does awful, well that's gonna be a harder road. But hey, no pressure. Being a rank 1 GM and having an impeccable winrate doesn't always transfer to successful, or even not complete garbage, performances at LAN's. Some people get stage fright, some people don't perform well outside their home comfort zone, some people get sick or tired. My point is, it all depends and we can't really draw any conclusions from that. So it would be pointless to bank on him doing well or not there as to help his case here.
I 100% agree... which is why I wouldn't want to be in Spades position. There are other ways that he can clear his name, but I think a strong LAN performance would be the most conclusive way and perhaps the only way that wouldn't involve having to stream 100% of his online games from now until forever.
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how long would it take people to go through every replay and try to click the minimap every time spades did something while cameralocked?
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On June 07 2012 07:17 Santiago4ever wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:09 Xyik wrote:
Not sure why people keep saying the 'burden of proof' is on the accusers .. there has been enough suspicious evidence that half the people here thinks he hacks. The burden of proof is now on Spades to perform well at Anaheim, otherwise its over for him. I'll go one step further and say that anyone that performs poorly at Anaheim clearly is a hacker. No other reason why you would perform poorly at a LAN.
LOL /golfclap
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On June 07 2012 07:11 dmasterding wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:06 Nyast wrote:On June 07 2012 06:49 Chessz wrote:... seriously, read the thread, it's been covered I could easily click on 117.9 73.1 on the minimap in my native resolution ( 1920 x 1080 ). Here's the proof: ![[image loading]](http://www.gamereplays.org/community/uploads/repimgs/repimg-33-264702.jpg) But as usual, this will get burried in another dozen pages or so of posts that will link to that reddit post to claim that another solid "proof" has been found. Actually in the replay Spades clicks on the minimap twice with an x value difference of .3. This should be impossible to do on the minimap, even if one of them can be clicked.
Has been proven wrong about 20 pages ago. It is possible.
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On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote: I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other.
What the heck kind of statement is this? 
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On June 07 2012 07:13 ZenithM wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:07 Starshaped wrote:
Are people seriously still trying to defend this hacker?
The fuck is wrong with you? More like they want to convict him for sure.
It was pretty apparent he hacked from the start of this thread. Simply by the fact he refuses to defend himself even when the original accusation was terrible and easily dismissible as evidence.
Now as it goes on and on he just looks more and more like a hacker..
His excuse for not defending himself: Since you cannot either prove he hacked or prove he didn't hack then there's no point in trying to defend himself.
Everything he has done or said at this point is fairly illogical. And I don't expect a person like Spades to not understand this concept.
He definitly cheated and this is his way of trying to salvage what little of his name he has left.
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On June 07 2012 07:17 LuckyFool wrote:
I'm really surprised there is still discussion on this, the case should be closed. Why Spades has not admitted to it yet is beyond me. It's actually ridiculously easy to know he was hacking in some of those games. Something I'm not sure many people have done is cross reference the games where he's allegedly hacking(recent showmatch and ladder games that people have posted) vs games where we know 100% he wasn't hacking. (MLG open bracket replays, IPL3/4 open bracket replays) I have 15 or so clean spades reps saved from these events and games I've played against him where he was streaming and clearly not hacking. One of the first things I did was compare those games vs the "hacking games" and it was comical.
it's quite easy to tell when camera lock action and hacks are in full gear and when they are not. I don't really understand how people think we don't have enough proof to label him guilty. Please anyone who still has any doubt just sit down and review the actual material instead of spending so much time arguing/questioning.
There's a reason why basically all high level players who have taken the time to sit down and objectively review these replays says he's guilty. there's a reason this thread is nearly 300 pages. There's a reason a whole bunch of players have been suspicious of Spades for a while now and how quickly so much material surfaced after this thread was posted.
I'm still waiting for him to tell us if he will stream or not. A willingness to stream and a willingness to help address people's questions about his playstyle would be his last chance to salvage his name.
So far....silence. If he refuses I can't help but wonder if it is because he knows it would just make it more painfully obvious the distinctions between his hackless play on stream and his shady play in those games.
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On June 07 2012 07:21 lodeet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:13 ZenithM wrote:On June 07 2012 07:07 Starshaped wrote:
Are people seriously still trying to defend this hacker?
The fuck is wrong with you? More like they want to convict him for sure. It was pretty apparent he hacked from the start of this thread. Simply by the fact he refuses to defend himself even when the original accusation was terrible and easily dismissible as evidence. Now as it goes on and on he just looks more and more like a hacker.. His excuse for not defending himself: Since you cannot either prove he hacked or prove he didn't hack then there's no point in trying to defend himself. Everything he has done or said at this point is fairly illogical. And I don't expect a person like Spades to not understand this concept. He definitly cheated and this is his way of trying to salvage what little of his name he has left.
I just died a little bit inside... again.
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On June 07 2012 07:20 artanis2 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:36 Spades wrote: I appreciate the objective people, and I hope they find results, one way or the other. What the heck kind of statement is this?
I guess he realises that it is probably over.
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On June 07 2012 07:21 lodeet wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:13 ZenithM wrote:On June 07 2012 07:07 Starshaped wrote:
Are people seriously still trying to defend this hacker?
The fuck is wrong with you? More like they want to convict him for sure. It was pretty apparent he hacked from the start of this thread. Simply by the fact he refuses to defend himself even when the original accusation was terrible and easily dismissible as evidence. Now as it goes on and on he just looks more and more like a hacker.. His excuse for not defending himself: Since you cannot either prove he hacked or prove he didn't hack then there's no point in trying to defend himself. Everything he has done or said at this point is fairly illogical. And I don't expect a person like Spades to not understand this concept. He definitly cheated and this is his way of trying to salvage what little of his name he has left.
That doesn't mean I have to let bad evidence like minimap clicking be admitted into the body of evidence! The circumstantial stuff involving his play that has already been mentioned seems pretty thorough. Minimap clicking is not, it can gtfo.
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On June 07 2012 07:21 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:17 LuckyFool wrote:
I'm really surprised there is still discussion on this, the case should be closed. Why Spades has not admitted to it yet is beyond me. It's actually ridiculously easy to know he was hacking in some of those games. Something I'm not sure many people have done is cross reference the games where he's allegedly hacking(recent showmatch and ladder games that people have posted) vs games where we know 100% he wasn't hacking. (MLG open bracket replays, IPL3/4 open bracket replays) I have 15 or so clean spades reps saved from these events and games I've played against him where he was streaming and clearly not hacking. One of the first things I did was compare those games vs the "hacking games" and it was comical.
it's quite easy to tell when camera lock action and hacks are in full gear and when they are not. I don't really understand how people think we don't have enough proof to label him guilty. Please anyone who still has any doubt just sit down and review the actual material instead of spending so much time arguing/questioning.
There's a reason why basically all high level players who have taken the time to sit down and objectively review these replays says he's guilty. there's a reason this thread is nearly 300 pages. There's a reason a whole bunch of players have been suspicious of Spades for a while now and how quickly so much material surfaced after this thread was posted.
I'm still waiting for him to tell us if he will stream or not. A willingness to stream and a willingness to help address people's questions about his playstyle would be his last chance to salvage his name. So far....silence. If he refuses I can't help but wonder if it is because he knows it would just make it more painfully obvious the distinctions between his hackless play on stream and his shady play in those games.
I streamed yesterday, I'm not streaming today. I need to actually practice builds today.
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On June 07 2012 07:22 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 07:21 StarStrider wrote:On June 07 2012 07:17 LuckyFool wrote:
I'm really surprised there is still discussion on this, the case should be closed. Why Spades has not admitted to it yet is beyond me. It's actually ridiculously easy to know he was hacking in some of those games. Something I'm not sure many people have done is cross reference the games where he's allegedly hacking(recent showmatch and ladder games that people have posted) vs games where we know 100% he wasn't hacking. (MLG open bracket replays, IPL3/4 open bracket replays) I have 15 or so clean spades reps saved from these events and games I've played against him where he was streaming and clearly not hacking. One of the first things I did was compare those games vs the "hacking games" and it was comical.
it's quite easy to tell when camera lock action and hacks are in full gear and when they are not. I don't really understand how people think we don't have enough proof to label him guilty. Please anyone who still has any doubt just sit down and review the actual material instead of spending so much time arguing/questioning.
There's a reason why basically all high level players who have taken the time to sit down and objectively review these replays says he's guilty. there's a reason this thread is nearly 300 pages. There's a reason a whole bunch of players have been suspicious of Spades for a while now and how quickly so much material surfaced after this thread was posted.
I'm still waiting for him to tell us if he will stream or not. A willingness to stream and a willingness to help address people's questions about his playstyle would be his last chance to salvage his name. So far....silence. If he refuses I can't help but wonder if it is because he knows it would just make it more painfully obvious the distinctions between his hackless play on stream and his shady play in those games. I streamed yesterday, I'm not streaming today. I need to actually practice builds today.
Thanks for your response.
Is the VOD up from your stream session yesterday?
That would be helpful.
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On June 07 2012 07:17 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:58 StarStrider wrote:
Start your stream and show us how you can play say, 20 games in a row without ever looking in fog of war, and using your minimap to perform almost every single action. Please do that.
Spades....
This.
This would help us compare and contrast your game play and determine if your games in question were really legit.
This would help you practice for Anaheim.
This would possibly help exhonerate your name.
This would get you stream revenue since the Spades name is huge right now.
WHY would you not do this? Its a win on all fronts.
Please say you'll do it, or say you won't do it and why. Then you can go back to ignoring this thread.
His play would be affected by worrying about making the right moves and what people would think of him and how they would analyze it? Then how the hell is he supposed to compete normally in Anaheim at this point? Further, stream chat can be disabled, that's the first thing I would do if I were him. He's training anyway (according to him). He may as well stream it. If he cares about his career at all the reasons not to do it are FAR outweighed by the reasons to do it. I would like to hear a response from SPADES, as I requested, not anyone else.This could be your one last chance to redeem your name Spades.
He doesn't owe you shit. Its an accusation. Spades has placed well in offline events before. 99% of people accusing him don't even know what to look for. They just base their opinions off hearsay.
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On June 07 2012 06:41 Nizzy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2012 06:19 Spades wrote:
how so? we are laughing at how stupid this whole situation is, and all the "evidence" gets debunked shortly after. I'm in a chat with 20 people, including pro gamers. IF YOU CANT TELL, WE ARE ROLLING OUR EYES AND JOKING ABOUT THIS. I AM NOT A HACKER CAPABLE OF HACKING THE PENTAGON OR CREATING UNSTOPPABLE HACKS, I AM NOT A COMPUTER PROGRAMMER Spades, giX comments confirmed it for me. I'm sorry bud but back in 2010 when I was 2nd in lead of elevengaming (xiNizzy) and when we had to play VT, you were our "joke" guy. We were short one clan match and had our team manager match you one day (Zerg) and because we knew you never attacked Zergs (from xiLost playing vs you a lot on ladder) and just turtled we made him do a strat just vs you, and he beat you. Our Manager. This was in late 2010/early 2011 when you could still be considered good. I feel really bad for the person that spent money on you to go to Korea. Why anyone would market a team around you as the leader is beyond me. I don't play this game anymore so this could be an unfair comment, however from a NA Fan's perspective you've always been terrible compared to other top NA players. You don't go from being bad -> dropping out of pro gaming team -> moving to flordia to live with parents again (alone with no in person practice partners) -> rank 1 GM next season. With better winning percents than Select & Thorzain. Are you kidding me? Please lol. Just admit you hacked, get permed, and go work at a deli shop/play poker or whatever you want. Just let it go man. Play for fun, because you can't make it as a pro anymore, its not cause you hacked, its because your simply not good enough. IF you're smart you'll realize that's not an insult but legit advice. If you're a former BW pro and aren't top 5 in NA by now after 2 years of playing the game, then you'll never be able to take games/events off Korean pros like a HuK/Illusion can. take care Spades.
Repost for truth
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Does spades have to play Anaheim without ever looking into the fog of war and only click on the minimap to prove he can play like that?
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EPT
