EPT[?] Spades hacking? - Page 124
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here 10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here. 08:47 KST - Summary: Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) | ||
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Shimmer
8 Posts
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Brutaxilos
United States2624 Posts
![[image loading]](http://www.toplessrobot.com/phoenix-wright.jpg) Honestly, I remember once some of my friends accused me of maphacking and I spent the whole afternoon trying to prove myself innocent. If I were Spades, I would be replying to every other post here. Still waiting for the conclusive evidence though. Maybe Spades will have some dramatic breakdown like Phoenix Wright villains too. | ||
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VPCursed
1044 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:32 ROOTFayth wrote: back when he was #1 GM the MMR was weird, anybody in top 1000 could play each other maybe he just ran good and encountered a lot of mediocre players also I fail to see how he ever looks like a diamond caliber player... he was actually one of the few people to have a high win ratio that season.. (75+%) | ||
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Imbu
United States903 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:31 oGsKneecap wrote: This 'community' today looks like a group of monkeys hurling shit at each other. One mediocre player is accused by an anonymous poster of hacking in a showmatch with no prize. Everyone feels they need to add their opinions-- many do so without watching the replays. Even a former hacker chimes in. A former manager tosses in his opinion; while saying nothing about the actual incident at hand, he accuses Koreans of stream cheating, despite it being completely unrelated. More foreign 'pro' players will chime in, rather than practising the hours a day required to compete on a global scale. I can tell you what MVP is not doing today-- Giving a shit about this drama on TeamLiquid. At least quote Wolf for his tweets O.o;; | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:35 Brutaxilos wrote: Reading this thread reminds me of this guy. If only... then perhaps we would, in fact, find the truth. | ||
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ZenithM
France15952 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:31 oGsKneecap wrote: This 'community' today looks like a group of monkeys hurling shit at each other. One mediocre player is accused by an anonymous poster of hacking in a showmatch with no prize. Everyone feels they need to add their opinions-- many do so without watching the replays. Even a former hacker chimes in. A former manager tosses in his opinion; while saying nothing about the actual incident at hand, he accuses Koreans of stream cheating, despite it being completely unrelated. More foreign 'pro' players will chime in, rather than practising the hours a day required to compete on a global scale. I can tell you what MVP is not doing today-- Giving a shit about this drama on TeamLiquid. Isn't that what Wolf just tweeted? Do you just copy tweets and not even mention the author? Or did Wolf actually copy-tweet your post? | ||
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stangstang
Canada281 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:32 ROOTFayth wrote: back when he was #1 GM the MMR was weird, anybody in top 1000 could play each other maybe he just ran good and encountered a lot of mediocre players also I fail to see how he ever looks like a diamond caliber player... i'm just going by what other people have said. I can't see what makes him a diamond level player either but it was stated by multiple people. plays like sending an entire army up a ramp without scanning, sending 2 tanks to a xelnaga without vision and other stuff don't equate to #1 GM player. no matter how bad the MMR was. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:38 ZenithM wrote: Isn't that what Wolf just tweeted? Do you just copy tweets and not even mention the author? Or did Wolf actually copy-tweet your post? no way can a tweet house all them words. 140 character max | ||
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MCXD
Australia2738 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:41 FallDownMarigold wrote: no way can a tweet house all them words. 140 character max http://www.twitlonger.com/show/hmvk0l | ||
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Corrosive
Canada3741 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:41 FallDownMarigold wrote: no way can a tweet house all them words. 140 character max twitlonger edit: snoiped. | ||
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Teodice
Sweden641 Posts
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Ausfailia
Australia123 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:38 ZenithM wrote: Isn't that what Wolf just tweeted? Do you just copy tweets and not even mention the author? Or did Wolf actually copy-tweet your post? Why is Wolf such a badass? | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On June 05 2012 15:51 stangstang wrote: i dont think this will be that bad. all he needs to do is play good at mlg to silence the people accusing him. if he really is NA GM#1 caliber player, he should get really far or even get out of the open bracket. I don't think you realize how fucking hard the open bracket at MLG is. It's as dicey as Code B qualifiers and loaded with insanely good players that knock each other out all the time. If he does poorly it proves nothing. | ||
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EtherealDeath
United States8366 Posts
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Brutaxilos
United States2624 Posts
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Gamegene
United States8308 Posts
I hope this harsh reaction by the community discourages anyone who is competitive from trying to get easy wins through cheap shortcuts. | ||
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tronix
United States95 Posts
Really though the whole situation sucks. Regardless of Spades hacking or not; he is ruined in the eyes of the community and can only hope to redeem himself through miraculous LAN wins. Some real shady games indeed; especially that botched SCV scout. I personally call hacks, but it is just an opinion none the less. For those calling this an un-just witchhunt; well Spades has a history of cheating. Where money is involved, a record like that never leaves you. I think I would be more up-in-arms about this if it were a manner player with no record of foul play. Sad sad stuff. I remember when Spades was one of the forerunners of NA terran streams. | ||
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KawaiiRice
United States2914 Posts
on daybreak spades had no scouting whatsoever and didn't even know if hive was done and started 3 extra starports making like 5 vikings at a time without even knowing about hive or a spire. thought that was pretty funny. | ||
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Bogeyman
Sweden307 Posts
On June 05 2012 15:09 Le BucheRON wrote: I guess my question is, if someone IS using this screen locking hack how WOULD you prove they are hacking? (aside from never looking into the fog of war and miracle "Flash" sense.) Is the community just supposed to let it slide because they can't nail him with 100% gotcha proof? Is he just allowed to participate in online events like the TSL etc because we can't prove it 100%? As I understand this hack, I would argue that you can not. There is more than enough evidence here. This isn't a court of law, it's Starcraft 2. I don't think it's impossible to tell if someone is cheating even with the screen locking. The screen locking in itself is obvious enough when compared to what the player would normally look like during a game. And overall I'd say that a comprehensive analysis of the behavior of a player in a game such as these vs Lucifron compared to the behavior of the same player in a large set of games where you can confirm that there's no cheating (hacking or otherwise) going on, would be able to show enough differences to tell if the player is cheating or not. I mean, let's say a hacker tries to make his behavior look like when he's not cheating. He'll have to always use the minimap and never look at fog (except when issuing orders, afaik), and he'd have to not reposition his army thoughtlessly (as a reaction to what he knows because he is hacking). Every action in-game would have to be analyzed on-the-fly to judge if it would look like hacking or not. I'm sure that can be done well enough to not rouse suspicion, but I just don't think it can be done so well that it survives a comparison with your normal hack-free gameplay. And doing the opposite is plain crazy: emulating your behavior when hacking for your normal play. That is, making stupid risks because you just hope the enemies tanks aren't sieged, not save scans even though you have no vikings in a TvT tank war, etc. etc. That would ruin your chances at winning legit. The thought of it is pretty entertaining though... As for Spades and what I have seen (I watched Catz and Illusion stream, and I tried the "magic scan" thing with also trying to scroll a bit first and not fly into fog of war, and I'll check out the replays later if I really want to form a solid opinion) his behavior in those games vs Lucifron and Theognis is nothing like what was shown in his play from VODs. So it looks pretty bad for him. I just can't see him answering all the questions (or even a fraction) I have about his play: 1. Why don't you ever look at the fog as you normally do? 2. Why don't you look at your scans after scanning (regardless of how it was scanned)? 3. How is it possible that you sent an SCV to scout, and forgot to look at what you scouted, and then continue to NOT look at his base to at least see what buildings were there? 4. Why would you reposition your tanks from the watch tower on Antiga to the left side without scouting his army movement? Why LEFT and not right? And why not stay put, as if you move away he could just come up from the front and siege a position near the watch tower so you lose vision? 5. Why move so much of your army on Tal'Darim to your main to defend a drop you hadn't scouted? (And yes, then not have enough to defend your 3rd, but that proves nothing. It's just as likely that you just overreacted to seeing the drop with maphack.) Even if you did see a medivac or two with a scan or your barracks, you didn't see the whole drop right? So why move so much of your army and siege it in range without even seeing the units drop down in the back (well, top) of your main? There are so, so many questions and if the answer is always "luck", "I made mistakes", "I expected him to play X so I blind-countered", and no actual answers explaining the thought behind army movement and such (without glaring flaws in logic, such as "well I saw the center, so he was probably going left, not right or front"), then what else can we do than find him guilty (after validating the questions of course)? So, my advice to you Spades: If you've cheated, whether it's maphack or streamcheat, your only chance to redeem yourself is to come clean. You'll never be looked at the same again whether you admit or not, but in admitting you can at least say something like "I understand that you (the community) won't ever fully trust me again, so from now on I'll simply have to video-tape or delay stream my games from now unto the end of time, or until you trust me again". You could do that without admitting, but if everyone is convinced you're guilty then they'll also think you're a liar and you won't get any sympathy no matter how hard you try. | ||
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FallDownMarigold
United States3710 Posts
On June 05 2012 16:43 Brutaxilos wrote: Just something I realized the OP's name drolets is backwards for stelord. Does that provide any hints...? well it's also droplets without the P. more hints? | ||
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