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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.08:47 KST - Summary:Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open. Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims. (also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here) |
On June 05 2012 14:02 EnderCraft wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:56 Trict wrote:
gg another career completely destroyed by this community, I'm ashamed to even be apart of this community. This isn't the right way to handle this. Ok Mr. CommunityVoiceOfReason, how should we handle this?
any way but this, lol
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On June 05 2012 14:00 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:55 Achilles17 wrote:On June 05 2012 13:52 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 13:46 Crowned wrote:IMO: And people have previously stated this in the thread, the strongest piece of evidence I find in all this mess is the fact that in a 7 game series, Spades never once looks at the fog of war UNLESS he's actually clicking in it (which disables the camera lock? If I understand this correctly). However, when watching his ladder games/streamed games he watches the fog of war quite a lot before even clicking there. How you all of a sudden start playing (seemingly) by using the minimap only, and the only time you ever are in the fog of war is if you're right clicking in it, when you on ladder or when on stream constantly check the Fog of war, is just too weird for me.
Nobody can even provide a counter argument to this, so until one of you neigh sayers can explain this, Spades was map hacking. Because you can't explain this... hacking! That's not a sound argument buddy. It's fine if that's enough to convince you, but no need to cover your ears and scream LALALA in the thread. Just don't post. No, because his mechanics/camera movements are drastically different in the bo7 series and then in all the games he released. When you do something for hundreds upon thousands of hours over the course of 2 years you form habits. You don't change those habits on a whim just for a bo7 series. Then why didn't he say all of that instead of just harping on that one thing? Was I replying to you? No I fuckin wasn't. So why don't you PM Crowned and have him reply to me with those words. Unless you're his alt account? I don't think you are, so how does my post have ANYTHING to do with you?
Actually Crowned did say that. And so did Catz/illusion in the stream. If you want to have a private conversation you are the one who needs to start PM'ing. Calm down bro.
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On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.
As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.
You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.
Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.
tl;dr: hacks Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man.
Dude just give it up. Honestly the only people who still aren't completely convinced that you hacked in your showmatch vs Lucifron are people who haven't watched the replays or people who don't understand the game well enough (eg silver league) to realize how blatantly obvious your hacking is. You're only digging yourself a larger and larger hole by continuing to deny the obvious.
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On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.
As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.
You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.
Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.
tl;dr: hacks Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man.
Good luck in Starcraft III buddy.
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I think it's safe to say that Spades was at the very least stream cheating v. Luci. Maybe he was map hacking in this instance, maybe not. Maybe he map hacks more generally. It just isn't clear.
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Proven hacker exposed. Nothing bad happened. Call it pitchforking if you want, but the fact is that this ended up being proven accurate, so its hard to say the situation didn't go properly.
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Spades, I say this with the most respect for you as an SC2 pro and a community member... you really need to confess to having cheated in whatever way you did, and sincerely apologize for it. If you don't, hell, your reputation is already fucked. But if you do, you can begin walking the long road to redeeming your name through clean play after having apologized.
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On June 05 2012 14:02 Jono7272 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:00 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 13:55 Achilles17 wrote:On June 05 2012 13:52 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 13:46 Crowned wrote:IMO: And people have previously stated this in the thread, the strongest piece of evidence I find in all this mess is the fact that in a 7 game series, Spades never once looks at the fog of war UNLESS he's actually clicking in it (which disables the camera lock? If I understand this correctly). However, when watching his ladder games/streamed games he watches the fog of war quite a lot before even clicking there. How you all of a sudden start playing (seemingly) by using the minimap only, and the only time you ever are in the fog of war is if you're right clicking in it, when you on ladder or when on stream constantly check the Fog of war, is just too weird for me.
Nobody can even provide a counter argument to this, so until one of you neigh sayers can explain this, Spades was map hacking. Because you can't explain this... hacking! That's not a sound argument buddy. It's fine if that's enough to convince you, but no need to cover your ears and scream LALALA in the thread. Just don't post. No, because his mechanics/camera movements are drastically different in the bo7 series and then in all the games he released. When you do something for hundreds upon thousands of hours over the course of 2 years you form habits. You don't change those habits on a whim just for a bo7 series. Then why didn't he say all of that instead of just harping on that one thing? Was I replying to you? No I fuckin wasn't. So why don't you PM Crowned and have him reply to me with those words. Unless you're his alt account? I don't think you are, so how does my post have ANYTHING to do with you? Weren't you posting earlier about me getting above 1000 posts whilst being worthless scum posting rubbish.. I'm glad I was being outed for my terrible posting by someone with such a higher sophistication to their posts!
When someone on a forum responds to you when you aren't even directing a post in their direction, it's important to let them know that their input is useless and unnecessary.
Edit: Removed being a meanie.
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On June 05 2012 13:59 Gimix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:54 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 13:53 McFeser wrote:On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.
As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.
You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.
Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.
tl;dr: hacks Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man. Why would he make something up like this? Your comment reeks of someone who is a compulsive liar, which would make sense given the current accusations. Sad this happening and I hope in the end that it is not true - but if it is you can still turn it around. After several years of good community service. I dont know, why did they make up nonsense in a IPL video to publicly slander me? Nobody is out to get you. I'm competitive too, and I know the frustration and wanting to be the best and how easy it would be to hack and if I hacked how I could beat even the top players and how awesome it would be to get that recognition. But, if I was in your situation, I'd just confess. You'd gain back respect. Sure, there will be consequences, but surely this is better than being excluded/pushed away by every top gamer for the rest of SC2?
IF he hacked he would lose out it if he confessed right now. It's better to wait until after MLG and then confess, if you wait then at least you could compete in MLG open brackets, if you confessed now you prolly wouldn't be allowed to attend.
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On June 05 2012 13:58 Emporio wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:56 Snoodles wrote:On June 05 2012 13:53 lisN wrote:On June 05 2012 13:48 DjDickGrayson wrote:
If he uses software surely there has to be glitches and if he was stream cheating surely there has to be traces of his ip. Did you really just say this? I can't even... Maybe we can create a gui interface using visual basic to confirm it? Can't we just enhance the reflection from his replays? We may have to flip the screenshot or something, but I'm sure this should work.
sure, dont you know that criminals hide their faces? ever heard of stockings?
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On June 05 2012 14:04 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.
As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.
You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.
Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.
tl;dr: hacks Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man. Good luck in Starcraft III buddy.
We may all be too old by then. If Spades is 22 now, he could very well be Middle aged by the time Starcraft III arrives.
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On June 05 2012 14:04 Pwnographics wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.
As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.
You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.
Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.
tl;dr: hacks Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man. Good luck in Starcraft III buddy.
LOL!
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Pretty funny how every single hacker plays the victim card when they are caught with their balls out.
Edit: Be a man, remember orb? Just admit it before it gets wayyy to far.
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On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.
As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.
You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.
Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.
tl;dr: hacks Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man.
2 ppl come out that lived with you and tell a story about you.
You respond to both of them by claiming "liar liar"
You really aren't helping your cause bro.
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On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?
It's mostly hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.
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On June 05 2012 13:58 McFeser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:56 Trict wrote:
gg another career completely destroyed by this community, I'm ashamed to even be apart of this community. This isn't the right way to handle this. Don't be silly. This was handled really well by the community. Alot of people we're on the fence, defended Spades, until the evidence started to pile against him. I don't know for certain if he is a hacker but surely you can't say its not unlikely given all the accusations from former teammates.
incorrect, some throwaway account started a shit storm and completely tarnished someone. If this was handled correctly spades would be punished if he is hacking or cleared of all charges if he isn't, but now no matter the situation this accusation whether it's true or false will haunt him.
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On June 05 2012 14:05 Integra wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 13:59 Gimix wrote:On June 05 2012 13:54 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 13:53 McFeser wrote:On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.
As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.
You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.
Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.
tl;dr: hacks Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man. Why would he make something up like this? Your comment reeks of someone who is a compulsive liar, which would make sense given the current accusations. Sad this happening and I hope in the end that it is not true - but if it is you can still turn it around. After several years of good community service. I dont know, why did they make up nonsense in a IPL video to publicly slander me? Nobody is out to get you. I'm competitive too, and I know the frustration and wanting to be the best and how easy it would be to hack and if I hacked how I could beat even the top players and how awesome it would be to get that recognition. But, if I was in your situation, I'd just confess. You'd gain back respect. Sure, there will be consequences, but surely this is better than being excluded/pushed away by every top gamer for the rest of SC2? IF he hacked he would lose out it if he confessed right now. It's better to wait until after MLG and then confess, if you wait then at least you could compete in MLG open brackets, if you confessed now you prolly wouldn't be allowed to attend.
This of course is why his team has advised him against this course of action. He could, at a minimum admit to stream cheating I suppose.
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Lastshadow vs Spades Showmatch thread closed, that would have been a very interesting match to observe.
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I love it... the guy cheated before, lied, and then admitted that he lied. How could anyone with a cerebral cortex believe him again?
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On June 05 2012 14:05 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On June 05 2012 14:02 Jono7272 wrote:On June 05 2012 14:00 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 13:55 Achilles17 wrote:On June 05 2012 13:52 Risen wrote:On June 05 2012 13:46 Crowned wrote:IMO: And people have previously stated this in the thread, the strongest piece of evidence I find in all this mess is the fact that in a 7 game series, Spades never once looks at the fog of war UNLESS he's actually clicking in it (which disables the camera lock? If I understand this correctly). However, when watching his ladder games/streamed games he watches the fog of war quite a lot before even clicking there. How you all of a sudden start playing (seemingly) by using the minimap only, and the only time you ever are in the fog of war is if you're right clicking in it, when you on ladder or when on stream constantly check the Fog of war, is just too weird for me.
Nobody can even provide a counter argument to this, so until one of you neigh sayers can explain this, Spades was map hacking. Because you can't explain this... hacking! That's not a sound argument buddy. It's fine if that's enough to convince you, but no need to cover your ears and scream LALALA in the thread. Just don't post. No, because his mechanics/camera movements are drastically different in the bo7 series and then in all the games he released. When you do something for hundreds upon thousands of hours over the course of 2 years you form habits. You don't change those habits on a whim just for a bo7 series. Then why didn't he say all of that instead of just harping on that one thing? Was I replying to you? No I fuckin wasn't. So why don't you PM Crowned and have him reply to me with those words. Unless you're his alt account? I don't think you are, so how does my post have ANYTHING to do with you? Weren't you posting earlier about me getting above 1000 posts whilst being worthless scum posting rubbish.. I'm glad I was being outed for my terrible posting by someone with such a higher sophistication to their posts! Probably because your post was, in fact, worthless. On the other hand, when someone on a forum responds to you when you aren't even directing a post in their direction, it's important to let them know that their input is useless and unnecessary.
Lol, you're so aggressive. Your posts on "Do you even know you cArn is?!!" were very contributing by the way, thanks for making that same addition a few times.
Hopefully Spades will stop wasting time soon; and this will prompt Blizzard to wake the fuck up on this issue.
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EPT
