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[?] Spades hacking? - Page 107

Forum Index > SC2 General
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
Arco
Profile Joined September 2009
United States2090 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-05 05:08:14
June 05 2012 05:07 GMT
#2121
LOL, going from mid masters to rank 1 GM. That's not suspicious.

The funny part is his play always looked mid master'ish, except with the game sense of Flash. Now we know why...
Positronic
Profile Joined May 2012
121 Posts
June 05 2012 05:07 GMT
#2122
On June 05 2012 14:06 Tyrant0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?


it's entirely hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.


No this is wrong, multiple people have stated it.
Gheed
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States972 Posts
June 05 2012 05:07 GMT
#2123
On June 05 2012 14:02 EnderCraft wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 13:56 Trict wrote:
gg another career completely destroyed by this community, I'm ashamed to even be apart of this community. This isn't the right way to handle this.

Ok Mr. CommunityVoiceOfReason, how should we handle this?


I think the OP should have forwarded his concerns to the teams or the players and the organizers of the tournament. Perhaps tried to speak with other pro gamers. Did SOMETHING other than post this publicly for every idiot to comment on. Maybe if that doesn't get him anywhere, then post it publicly. Deep Throat didn't just go on the street and dump incriminating Nixon tapes on the ground.

If hacking is a widespread problem in SC2, I definitely want to hear about it and have it fixed. But I don't think dumping circumstantial evidence on the forum and letting everyone have a go at it is the right way.
Klipsys
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1533 Posts
June 05 2012 05:08 GMT
#2124
On June 05 2012 14:06 Tyrant0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?


it's entirely hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.



it's also the single most dangerous allegation in the history of SC2....it could ruin a lot if it's true
Hudson Valley Progamer
Shaddar
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
675 Posts
June 05 2012 05:08 GMT
#2125
On June 05 2012 14:06 Tyrant0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?


it's entirely hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.


Not just one person. Diamond said hes heard from sources that it is actually true and is pretty upset by it, check his twitter.
Why is Check 6 afraid of Infinity Seven? Because Infinity Seven Team 8 Day [9]
gzo
Profile Joined April 2011
United States55 Posts
June 05 2012 05:08 GMT
#2126
On June 05 2012 14:02 Swords wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:00 gzo wrote:
On June 05 2012 13:49 Spades wrote:
On June 05 2012 13:46 giX wrote:
during my time at the Reign house, I played a good amount of games with Spades, and observed him playing Artist (Korean terran) many times as well. The results were extremely one sided for their TVT's (I would estimate 90%+ winratio in favor of artist in the inhouse games vs him) Spades said frequently that he could not win TvT, and had frequent outbursts of frustration when playing against Artist.

As the weeks passed, it seemed spades motivation to play decreased more and more. During this time he would spend a lot of time playing LoL, CS, and Poker. while myself and Artist would compete in Playhem and play on the Korean ladder (artist won 16 playhems while he was in the house, what a boss) practice became more and more sparse between us, he consequentially dropped out of GM due to lack of play (this was season 5, where he ended the season rank 36 in his masters league) after a few weeks of stagnation, he announced he was returning back to Florida, and left just days after announcing this to frank and the rest of us.

You can Imagine how surprised I was when season 6 opened, and he achieved a staggering 257-84 win ratio, putting him at rank 1 GM with a 75.37% winrate, comparable to the best NA terrans such as: EGdemuslim: 280-79 (77.99%) Select: 274-51 (84.31%) EGthorzain: 141-40 (77.90%) this drastic turnaround seemed very fish, given his previous history and the stream cheating that I witnessed in the Reign house. but Given that I was still playing full time and trying to improve myself, I didn't give it a second thought.

Now that all of this has surfaced, I am fairly certain that in the process of wanting to prove himself and break out from the mid tier that so many of us are seemingly stuck, he used underhanded methods to take shortcuts and achieve success that otherwise would have taken a lot of hard work and determination.

tl;dr: hacks



Pretty sad. I guess this is what it feels like when the world is out to get you. I convinced them to let you in the house, and you would go so far to make something up like that, pretty fucked up man.

I like how instead of trying to explain your incredible win-loss record, or explaining how you actually didn't spend that much time playing LoL/CS/Poker, you went with the most generic response to any accusation, only to prove how clueless you are at dealing with this situation.


People need to stop judging spades on his responses in this thread. Imagine if you were just accused of something as serious as this. Either you panic that you've been found out and your career is ruined, or you panic that there's this lie out there about you and you can't prove otherwise. Either way your responses will not be well thought out and they will likely not make a lot of sense.

Judge the games provided as evidence, not what a man with a huge target painted on his chest is saying to you.

..Except the way that he is handling the situation makes it seem he's even more guilty than just using in-game evidence. Saying that he's "responding in a panic" is bullshit, he had time to think over what would be the best way to approach this and POST on a forum. It's obvious that he hacks, he has provided no logical defense for any accusations, and keeps making himself look even more like an idiot each time he posts.
symptom
Profile Joined July 2011
Cuba14 Posts
June 05 2012 05:08 GMT
#2127
If these accusations are true.. It's time to own up to your wrong doings.

I've been a fan of spades for a long time, you've been very influential on me as a Terran, and when I heard you were going to Korea I was ecstatic for you man.

Nobody is perfect.. If you did this it's just time to rebuild. Admit your faults and start to rebuild. Granted it will be a hard road. If you can go in stream and analyze those replays as deeply as Catz, Illusion, Drewbie, and (whats his name) did, then you can make peace with this "slander". Mouse defects and the "dog ate my homework" approach will not cut it man, sorry to say.

If you want to continue a career in starcraft, you need to admit it, apologize and keep it moving.
zmansman17
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2567 Posts
June 05 2012 05:08 GMT
#2128
On June 05 2012 14:07 Tump wrote:
LOL, going from mid masters to rank 1 GM. That's not suspicious.


This isn't entirely accurate. Obviously he was a GM player who dropped down to Mid master from inactivity. Come on people, at least we can make informed and intelligent comments even if we think he map hacked, stream cheated, etc.
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
Klipsys
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1533 Posts
June 05 2012 05:08 GMT
#2129
On June 05 2012 14:07 Tump wrote:
LOL, going from mid masters to rank 1 GM. That's not suspicious.

The funny part is his play always looked mid master'ish, except with the game sense of Flash. Now we know why...


Yeah I would have thought anyone would have been like o_0.

Hudson Valley Progamer
zmansman17
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2567 Posts
June 05 2012 05:09 GMT
#2130
On June 05 2012 14:08 Shaddar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:06 Tyrant0 wrote:
On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?


it's entirely hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.


Not just one person. Diamond said hes heard from sources that it is actually true and is pretty upset by it, check his twitter.


Can you link this?
♞ - His EKG is flattening get me a defib stat! Prepped and Ready! - ♞
EnderCraft
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1746 Posts
June 05 2012 05:09 GMT
#2131
On June 05 2012 14:03 binski wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:02 EnderCraft wrote:
On June 05 2012 13:56 Trict wrote:
gg another career completely destroyed by this community, I'm ashamed to even be apart of this community. This isn't the right way to handle this.

Ok Mr. CommunityVoiceOfReason, how should we handle this?


any way but this, lol

Honestly, cheating should NOT be tolerated in this community. Should spades been taken into a small room and told by a small group of people how bad he is for hacking? How else could this have gone down?
SC:BW has a higher skill ceiling than SC2? SC 64 is where it's at brah.
towers
Profile Joined September 2010
33 Posts
June 05 2012 05:09 GMT
#2132
This thread is rather ridiculous and I'm pretty appalled that the mods kept it open. We have people consistently saying things are "proven" when they obviously don't know what "proven" means, and we even have pros coming in and playing the "if you aren't guilty, prove it!" card multiple times.

This is drama at the high school level that is ruining a person's career. And the mods are keeping it open? Based on what? Some ridiculous analysis of a player based on less than 1% of his total games? Are you serious? If teamliquid has any respect they'll shut this thread down and let the proper people handle the situation.

How many times has TL stepped out and let coaches/teams handle poor player performance? Why is this different? Because Spades isn't on a team with $texas?
Klipsys
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1533 Posts
June 05 2012 05:09 GMT
#2133
On June 05 2012 14:08 zmansman17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:07 Tump wrote:
LOL, going from mid masters to rank 1 GM. That's not suspicious.


This isn't entirely accurate. Obviously he was a GM player who dropped down to Mid master from inactivity. Come on people, at least we can make informed and intelligent comments even if we think he map hacked, stream cheated, etc.


It's not just that, its dropping due to inactivty, and then getting to number 1 GM the next fucking season That's some funky ass shit right there.
Hudson Valley Progamer
SupLilSon
Profile Joined October 2011
Malaysia4123 Posts
June 05 2012 05:09 GMT
#2134
On June 05 2012 14:06 Tyrant0 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?


It's mostly hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.


Absolute and utter Korean domination at virtually every LAN event pretty much proves that this is either grossly exaggerated or flat out untrue.
tribulator
Profile Joined February 2011
774 Posts
June 05 2012 05:09 GMT
#2135
On June 05 2012 14:06 Trict wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 13:58 McFeser wrote:
On June 05 2012 13:56 Trict wrote:
gg another career completely destroyed by this community, I'm ashamed to even be apart of this community. This isn't the right way to handle this.

Don't be silly. This was handled really well by the community. Alot of people we're on the fence, defended Spades, until the evidence started to pile against him. I don't know for certain if he is a hacker but surely you can't say its not unlikely given all the accusations from former teammates.

incorrect, some throwaway account started a shit storm and completely tarnished someone. If this was handled correctly spades would be punished if he is hacking or cleared of all charges if he isn't, but now no matter the situation this accusation whether it's true or false will haunt him.


So who is this magical governing body that we have to report these things to? Or was the op supposed to PM spades and say:

"Hey I saw possible evidence of you hacking, comment?"
"I don't hack lol"
"ok"

As it is currently in the scene, with no player associations, and teams operating for themselves by themselves, there is no other option for this type of thing other than to be aired out fully public.
rd
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States2586 Posts
June 05 2012 05:09 GMT
#2136
On June 05 2012 14:08 Shaddar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:06 Tyrant0 wrote:
On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?


it's entirely hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.


Not just one person. Diamond said hes heard from sources that it is actually true and is pretty upset by it, check his twitter.


It's still hearsay, and now the testimony of two people. Unless it's actually looked into, it shouldn't be made into a thread. Everyone will just jump to their own conclusions before the evidence even comes out.
joeschmo
Profile Joined January 2011
United States167 Posts
June 05 2012 05:10 GMT
#2137
Don't even think about confessing, spades, that's career suicide. With the amount of people who are trying to burn you, there will be that same amount defending you, also, LOL @ KOREAN STANDARD
Dante_A_
Profile Joined September 2010
United States161 Posts
June 05 2012 05:10 GMT
#2138
On June 05 2012 14:07 Gheed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:02 EnderCraft wrote:
On June 05 2012 13:56 Trict wrote:
gg another career completely destroyed by this community, I'm ashamed to even be apart of this community. This isn't the right way to handle this.

Ok Mr. CommunityVoiceOfReason, how should we handle this?

If hacking is a widespread problem in SC2, I definitely want to hear about it and have it fixed. But I don't think dumping circumstantial evidence on the forum and letting everyone have a go at it is the right way.


Handling it this way got an incredible amount of scrutiny for the replays in just a matter of hours, in addition to two former teamates of Spades coming out and giving circumstancial evidence/direct evidence that Spades was streamcheating/hacking.

Its not like there are often witchhunts accusing people of hacking, when the person isn't found to be a hacker in the end.
DjDickGrayson
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States81 Posts
June 05 2012 05:10 GMT
#2139
There is probably a way to discover stream cheaters too. I think that with replays and the original stream/casted stream you can find a slew of influx apm, structures and movement abnormalities. A stream cheater will react a certain way upon seeing or hearing something from a stream he might be observing...
Disco ● Lounge ● House
Shaddar
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
675 Posts
June 05 2012 05:10 GMT
#2140
On June 05 2012 14:09 zmansman17 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 14:08 Shaddar wrote:
On June 05 2012 14:06 Tyrant0 wrote:
On June 05 2012 14:03 Klipsys wrote:
Is there going to be a thread about the Korean Stream Cheating?


it's entirely hearsay. Theres no evidence other than one post, one person's testimony. With absence of virtually any evidence, it's definitely not worthy of a thread. Doesn't mean we shouldn't look into it, though.


Not just one person. Diamond said hes heard from sources that it is actually true and is pretty upset by it, check his twitter.


Can you link this?


https://twitter.com/#!/ESVDiamond
Why is Check 6 afraid of Infinity Seven? Because Infinity Seven Team 8 Day [9]
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