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[?] Spades hacking? - Page 10

Forum Index > SC2 General
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07:06 KST - method linked here has been disproved here

10:54 KST - Find a full timeline of pro comments (including Spades) in the topic here.

08:47 KST - Summary:
Accusations of maphacking have the potential to destroy a player's career if left unaddressed. Because of the potential consequences, we should be careful about accepting unproven accusations. The principle of 'innocent until proven guilty' should be applied here. That does not mean that there has been a conclusion about this case, however, which is why this thread remains tentatively open.

Please discuss with caution and use evidence to back up your claims.

(also a summary post by an unnamed pro on reddit here)
KonohaFlash
Profile Joined July 2010
Canada1590 Posts
June 04 2012 21:09 GMT
#181
This thread should be interesting. I hope more pros give some insight into this.
sekalf
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden522 Posts
June 04 2012 21:09 GMT
#182
QuanticIllusion wrote:

Game 1: Antiga
All of OP's statements true



I havent watched all the replays, but this isnt really true.
At 9:11 when the OP says Spades is "camera blocking" he is actually issuing scv commands. After the banshee harass he didnt have enough scvs in gas and so on.
Shiori
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
3815 Posts
June 04 2012 21:09 GMT
#183
On June 05 2012 06:06 Spades wrote:
I'm not going to read into this because it makes no sense, I think alot of this says i look at there base before scanning or something? Watch vods of my stream, i always look at fog, then scan immediately afterwards. I think this is s tupid people are calling me a hacker to discredit my "close defeat" in a showmatch. Just because my history people find things to discredit me. Pretty pathetic.

What is being said is that when you scanned, your screen jumped to the scan position as if you'd scanned using the minimap. However, when this occurs in a regular game, the scan is centered on the screen, much like if you click regularly on the minimap it centers your screen on the point you clicked. Since the scan was off center, it leads people to believe that you were already looking at the fog and your screen was locked onto your base, but once the scan went down, the area counted as being in your vision and hence the maphacking client allowed it to be captured as your vision by the game. This would imply that you were using some sort of third party program which locks your screen on your base when you look into the fog i.e. a maphack.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
June 04 2012 21:09 GMT
#184
tbh spades you do play super fishy >_< I played that game recently against you and said basically "wtf this is very hackish" and you said "I play you on my smurf a lot and knew you'd do that" which is USUALLY the #1 "I hack and this is how I will defend myself ambiguously" statement.

I'm no hack expert so I will leave this to those that are but you need to know.. it isn't just a few people that have felt odd about your online game play. ddddddd

If you aren't hacking this is unfortunate but the sins of hacking (even in the past) will always impact you. If you are hacking it's pretty over...
Polar_Nada
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States1548 Posts
June 04 2012 21:10 GMT
#185
damn really? this is crazy...
[ReD]NaDa and fnaticMSI.SEn fighting~! ::POlar @ UC Irvine::
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
June 04 2012 21:10 GMT
#186
We need more very high level players analyzing these replays. thats quite a contribution from illusion, I hope some others post their thoughts as well.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
Synche
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1345 Posts
June 04 2012 21:12 GMT
#187
On June 05 2012 06:10 PassiveAce wrote:
We need more very high level players analyzing these replays. thats quite a contribution from illusion, I hope some others post their thoughts as well.


High level T would be nice.

They can explain good/bad/dumb or hacking.
SinCitta
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Germany2127 Posts
June 04 2012 21:12 GMT
#188
About these 5+ seconds map view locks... Don't know about Spades, but given that he is somehow decent, who needs to watch his opponent for this long? Pros don't even watch this long when they scan or if a worker gets a glimpse of the enemy base. Sure, if you have a maphack, you can afford to linger longer as nothing surprises you. But why would you put zero effort into hiding it? Especially if you have a history of maphacking and with the scene nowadays you can end your career when something like this comes out.
mastergriggy
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1312 Posts
June 04 2012 21:12 GMT
#189
I'll wait for more conclusive evidence before stating any opinions. If he was cheating that's a really fucked up thing to do.
Write your own song!
cArn-
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Korea (South)824 Posts
June 04 2012 21:12 GMT
#190
if he was hacking why did he lose to drops meching vs bio ? don't be ridiculous.
Twitter : http://twitter.com/CARNDARAK
rANDY
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United Kingdom748 Posts
June 04 2012 21:12 GMT
#191
On June 05 2012 06:08 babylon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:03 rANDY wrote:
This is the PM I sent to Antoine regarding this situation:


Hello, I decided to watch these games with the intention of finding one non-circumstantial piece of evidence to show if map hacks were being used in order to try and bring some certainty to this situation, as no matter how much circumstantial evidence there is, one cannot use it to convict someone comfortably. I believe I have found some non-circumstantial proof when watching the first replay.

To see this in the replay most clearly, slow the speed right down.

When a terran places a scan using the minimap it will take his camera instanylu to that position with the scan circle centred on the screen.

At 6:23 of game 1 on Antigua Shipyard, when Spades scans Lucifron's base his camera jumps to where the scan is, but the scan is off-center but to the top part of the screen. The only way this is possible is if he was already looking at this area and placed the scan manually not using the mini map and did not click the center of the screen. The only way this was possible is if the screen was locked on his base while he was looking at the fog. You can see in the replay that the screen moved instantly when he scanned to the off center position from his main.

For completeness, at 13:16 in the same game is an example of Lucifron scanning the center of the map using the mini-map. His screen jumps straight to the scan and the scan is exactly central to the screen (where he clicked on the mini-map).

I believe this shows conculsive proof that Spades' screen was locked while viewing Lucifron's base and was therefore using a maphack.

I don't understand the point you are making.

You say that "the only way this is possible is if he was already looking at this area and placed the scan manually not using the mini map and did not click the center of the screen." Which ... is possible without having a camera lock, isn't it? Just as you say, he could just be staring at the fog and manually placing a scan that ended up off-centered.

For the record, Illusion's analysis does sound pretty damning though.



When his screen moved to Lucifron's base, the scanning circle was already there indicating it was either done by minimap or by his screen already being their but locked, but since it was off center, it was not done by minimap.
Gardel
Profile Joined April 2011
Mexico220 Posts
June 04 2012 21:13 GMT
#192
On June 05 2012 06:09 iNcontroL wrote:
tbh spades you do play super fishy >_< I played that game recently against you and said basically "wtf this is very hackish" and you said "I play you on my smurf a lot and knew you'd do that" which is USUALLY the #1 "I hack and this is how I will defend myself ambiguously" statement.

I'm no hack expert so I will leave this to those that are but you need to know.. it isn't just a few people that have felt odd about your online game play. ddddddd

If you aren't hacking this is unfortunate but the sins of hacking (even in the past) will always impact you. If you are hacking it's pretty over...


I´ve seen a lot of games lately from Spades, and have to agree with iNcontroL. There are so many fishy moments, I like you Spades, but, it´s very weird your lately style of play.
"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." Abraham Lincoln.
Holytornados
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1022 Posts
June 04 2012 21:13 GMT
#193
On June 05 2012 06:03 rANDY wrote:
This is the PM I sent to Antoine regarding this situation:


Show nested quote +
Hello, I decided to watch these games with the intention of finding one non-circumstantial piece of evidence to show if map hacks were being used in order to try and bring some certainty to this situation, as no matter how much circumstantial evidence there is, one cannot use it to convict someone comfortably. I believe I have found some non-circumstantial proof when watching the first replay.

To see this in the replay most clearly, slow the speed right down.

When a terran places a scan using the minimap it will take his camera instanylu to that position with the scan circle centred on the screen.

At 6:23 of game 1 on Antigua Shipyard, when Spades scans Lucifron's base his camera jumps to where the scan is, but the scan is off-center but to the top part of the screen. The only way this is possible is if he was already looking at this area and placed the scan manually not using the mini map and did not click the center of the screen. The only way this was possible is if the screen was locked on his base while he was looking at the fog. You can see in the replay that the screen moved instantly when he scanned to the off center position from his main.

For completeness, at 13:16 in the same game is an example of Lucifron scanning the center of the map using the mini-map. His screen jumps straight to the scan and the scan is exactly central to the screen (where he clicked on the mini-map).

I believe this shows conculsive proof that Spades' screen was locked while viewing Lucifron's base and was therefore using a maphack.


That's a really in depth analysis o.O
CLG/Liquid ~~ youtube.com/reddedgaming
Taktik
Profile Joined January 2011
Poland680 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-06-04 21:17:51
June 04 2012 21:14 GMT
#194
Sadly I dont have any real evidence but this doesnt suprise me at all. Few months ago I heard iNcontroL saying on his stream to someone that there are rumors of Spades hacking. Shortly after I saw Spades playing some online cup which was casted by IMBA.tv, I was concentrated on Spades play because usually those rumors are true, and I saw a couple of really weird things which were not brought up by caster crew. Spades building 2 more bunkers and returning his marines to natural without scouting protoss attack was really weird, I was going to contact IMBA.tv to ask for a replay but aborted the plan. Im pretty sure there are more people who watched some of Spades games and had this same feeling that sometimes he decides to do proper things without knowing whats coming.
caradoc
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada3022 Posts
June 04 2012 21:14 GMT
#195
On June 05 2012 06:13 Holytornados wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:03 rANDY wrote:
This is the PM I sent to Antoine regarding this situation:


Hello, I decided to watch these games with the intention of finding one non-circumstantial piece of evidence to show if map hacks were being used in order to try and bring some certainty to this situation, as no matter how much circumstantial evidence there is, one cannot use it to convict someone comfortably. I believe I have found some non-circumstantial proof when watching the first replay.

To see this in the replay most clearly, slow the speed right down.

When a terran places a scan using the minimap it will take his camera instanylu to that position with the scan circle centred on the screen.

At 6:23 of game 1 on Antigua Shipyard, when Spades scans Lucifron's base his camera jumps to where the scan is, but the scan is off-center but to the top part of the screen. The only way this is possible is if he was already looking at this area and placed the scan manually not using the mini map and did not click the center of the screen. The only way this was possible is if the screen was locked on his base while he was looking at the fog. You can see in the replay that the screen moved instantly when he scanned to the off center position from his main.

For completeness, at 13:16 in the same game is an example of Lucifron scanning the center of the map using the mini-map. His screen jumps straight to the scan and the scan is exactly central to the screen (where he clicked on the mini-map).

I believe this shows conculsive proof that Spades' screen was locked while viewing Lucifron's base and was therefore using a maphack.


That's a really in depth analysis o.O


And it should be pretty easy to test as well....
Salvation a la mode and a cup of tea...
Spades
Profile Joined September 2010
United States249 Posts
June 04 2012 21:14 GMT
#196
On June 05 2012 06:09 iNcontroL wrote:
tbh spades you do play super fishy >_< I played that game recently against you and said basically "wtf this is very hackish" and you said "I play you on my smurf a lot and knew you'd do that" which is USUALLY the #1 "I hack and this is how I will defend myself ambiguously" statement.

I'm no hack expert so I will leave this to those that are but you need to know.. it isn't just a few people that have felt odd about your online game play. ddddddd

If you aren't hacking this is unfortunate but the sins of hacking (even in the past) will always impact you. If you are hacking it's pretty over...


90% of the day i believe people are hacking against me on ladder. Big name players as well. Everyone is just hack crazy now. I stream 90% of my games. I didn't hack in this series, I haven't hacked in SC2. If you want to find things that look suspicious, It's easy. Not one person here can "prove" i hacked, because i didn't. And now my sc2 image is destroyed. So I'm thankful for that. Guess it's time to retire after Anaheim.
Seluance
Profile Joined May 2012
14 Posts
June 04 2012 21:15 GMT
#197
As opposed to just using the replays of Spades playing against Lucifron, wouldn't it be quite helpful for people to locate recent replays they have of playing him on the ladder or through other progamers replay packs?
Spades
Profile Joined September 2010
United States249 Posts
June 04 2012 21:15 GMT
#198
On June 05 2012 06:12 cArn- wrote:
if he was hacking why did he lose to drops meching vs bio ? don't be ridiculous.

lol, yeah lucifron only snuck in like 10 drops against me in 1 game.
babylon
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
8765 Posts
June 04 2012 21:15 GMT
#199
On June 05 2012 06:12 rANDY wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:08 babylon wrote:
On June 05 2012 06:03 rANDY wrote:
This is the PM I sent to Antoine regarding this situation:


Hello, I decided to watch these games with the intention of finding one non-circumstantial piece of evidence to show if map hacks were being used in order to try and bring some certainty to this situation, as no matter how much circumstantial evidence there is, one cannot use it to convict someone comfortably. I believe I have found some non-circumstantial proof when watching the first replay.

To see this in the replay most clearly, slow the speed right down.

When a terran places a scan using the minimap it will take his camera instanylu to that position with the scan circle centred on the screen.

At 6:23 of game 1 on Antigua Shipyard, when Spades scans Lucifron's base his camera jumps to where the scan is, but the scan is off-center but to the top part of the screen. The only way this is possible is if he was already looking at this area and placed the scan manually not using the mini map and did not click the center of the screen. The only way this was possible is if the screen was locked on his base while he was looking at the fog. You can see in the replay that the screen moved instantly when he scanned to the off center position from his main.

For completeness, at 13:16 in the same game is an example of Lucifron scanning the center of the map using the mini-map. His screen jumps straight to the scan and the scan is exactly central to the screen (where he clicked on the mini-map).

I believe this shows conculsive proof that Spades' screen was locked while viewing Lucifron's base and was therefore using a maphack.

I don't understand the point you are making.

You say that "the only way this is possible is if he was already looking at this area and placed the scan manually not using the mini map and did not click the center of the screen." Which ... is possible without having a camera lock, isn't it? Just as you say, he could just be staring at the fog and manually placing a scan that ended up off-centered.

For the record, Illusion's analysis does sound pretty damning though.



When his screen moved to Lucifron's base, the scanning circle was already there indicating it was either done by minimap or by his screen already being their but locked, but since it was off center, it was not done by minimap.

Ahhh, I see, I see. I thought the scanning circle hadn't been there already (and can't check since my comp. can't run SC2 atm), so I was very confused, but that makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.
tribulator
Profile Joined February 2011
774 Posts
June 04 2012 21:16 GMT
#200
On June 05 2012 06:14 Spades wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 05 2012 06:09 iNcontroL wrote:
tbh spades you do play super fishy >_< I played that game recently against you and said basically "wtf this is very hackish" and you said "I play you on my smurf a lot and knew you'd do that" which is USUALLY the #1 "I hack and this is how I will defend myself ambiguously" statement.

I'm no hack expert so I will leave this to those that are but you need to know.. it isn't just a few people that have felt odd about your online game play. ddddddd

If you aren't hacking this is unfortunate but the sins of hacking (even in the past) will always impact you. If you are hacking it's pretty over...


90% of the day i believe people are hacking against me on ladder. Big name players as well. Everyone is just hack crazy now. I stream 90% of my games. I didn't hack in this series, I haven't hacked in SC2. If you want to find things that look suspicious, It's easy. Not one person here can "prove" i hacked, because i didn't. And now my sc2 image is destroyed. So I'm thankful for that. Guess it's time to retire after Anaheim.


Well, why not attempt to salvage everything by taking the time of going over the points listed by the OP and illusion, providing your side of the decision making?

The "I could go case by case defending myself, but this is just sad." attitude is suspicious among itself.
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