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GM / Master map hacker and general hacking and cheating th…

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You have to provide some kind of evidence/proof (screenshots/replays etc.) if you are going to accuse somebody.

Additionally, a supporting comment of what people should be looking for and when will be necessary if you are posting replays/evidence.
Rickyvalle21
Profile Joined July 2012
United States320 Posts
July 07 2012 01:21 GMT
#1701
and yes a gold player can get gm with map/blink hacks if u look at hrgzacks replays hes mechanically horrible. he queues up like 3 colossus wich is a good indication that hes a bad player
people say practice is perfect but if nothing is perfect whats the point in practicing?
intense555
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States474 Posts
July 07 2012 02:07 GMT
#1702
On July 07 2012 10:21 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
and yes a gold player can get gm with map/blink hacks if u look at hrgzacks replays hes mechanically horrible. he queues up like 3 colossus wich is a good indication that hes a bad player

Correction, a top diamond player maybe. No way a gold player could.
Aspiring Starcraft 2 pro for @mYinsanityEU, follow me on twitter @mYintenseSC
coL.hendralisk
Profile Joined September 2009
Zimbabwe1756 Posts
July 07 2012 02:08 GMT
#1703
On July 07 2012 11:07 intense555 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2012 10:21 Rickyvalle21 wrote:
and yes a gold player can get gm with map/blink hacks if u look at hrgzacks replays hes mechanically horrible. he queues up like 3 colossus wich is a good indication that hes a bad player

Correction, a top diamond player maybe. No way a gold player could.


Have yet to see a diamond zerg or terran with maphack in gm
TENTHST
Profile Joined December 2010
United States204 Posts
July 07 2012 04:41 GMT
#1704
How come the original post isn't being updated with new hackers?
ZweiGaming
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada348 Posts
July 07 2012 05:17 GMT
#1705
On July 07 2012 13:41 TENTHST wrote:
How come the original post isn't being updated with new hackers?


Because making videos take some time, and because theres no top ranked hackers that have been reported lately (or about none as i'm looking into few replays atm). As I said, the original post will only contain GM/top 400 masters. I need few replays of the accused before exposing to be sure about it.
RenSC2
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1090 Posts
July 07 2012 07:27 GMT
#1706
On July 04 2012 11:55 redruMBunny wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On July 04 2012 08:43 ODKStevez wrote:
Well they are a company, but this problem needs resolved because the more Blizzard show they don't care, the more that it will happen.


Let's say you're Blizzard, and you're trying to stop hackers. $100,000 a year minimum. Probably much more.

Let's say you set up infrastructure for an automated report system in Battle.net, allowing submission of replays. Say it's a given that replays submitted for hacking reports must have been viewed at least once. (To prevent the millions of spurious and unfounded accusations of hacking which would inevitably be submitted.)

Now let's say you set up a data analysis system to analyze submitted replay data for hacks. Since detected hacks are continuously replaced by newer hacks and bypasses, this means at least one programmer to constantly update data &c. More likely, you need a team.

Any such team would further have to work with existing SC2 teams to integrate antihack patching.

It isn't just a matter of having the existing SC2 teams do antihacking data analysis and reprogramming. The existing SC2 teams already each have their own jobs, even if they were qualified to do antihacking data analysis - which they may very well not be. (There are different areas of expertise in programming, and data analysis is not the same as thing as game programming).

Now let's say also that you need translation and support teams. It isn't enough to just take in replay data; players suspecting hacks may have particular reasons for suspecting hacks that cannot be readily identified with data analysis.

Besides those costs, the amount of data being sent to Blizzard would probably require additional server setup - which of course requires more money.

Even then, that's the absolute minimum cost. If Blizzard were to put "serious" attention to addressing hackers, including followups on reports and individual analysis of suspect replays, the time and staff costs would skyrocket. I wouldn't imagine $100K would even begin to cover it in that case.

--

I think it's a gross exaggeration to say Blizzard doesn't care, or that Blizzard's only in it for the money. Obviously, a company cares about its product, if only to the extent of protecting its perceived value to its customers by eliminating negative influences such as hacking.

On the other hand, there's a limit to the extent a company can reasonably be expected to police its own product. A house can be covered with toilet paper and eggs, but that doesn't mean toilet paper manufacturers and farmers should be held responsible for establishing and paying for neighborhood watches to ensure their product isn't misused. That may sound a little ridiculous, but things far more dangerous are still relatively unregulated. Where to Mexican drug cartels get all their guns? (They certainly aren't homemade.) Why are there so many accidents related to talking on cell phones or excessive drinking? We're talking about things that destabilize countries and destroy lives, but which still aren't policed to the degree that's being suggested as "reasonable" in this and other threads for Blizzard.

Explain, please, why Blizzard should be held to a different standard.

I'm not saying hacking should be ignored. What I am saying is that there isn't any legal basis for holding Blizzard responsible for third party hackers. What I am saying is that the degree of apparent responsibility that people seem to be thinking Blizzard should be held to is *abnormal* in light of the degree of regulation in other industries.

What I am saying is that there is a real cost associated with dealing properly with hacking, and that Blizzard's failure to deal with hacking as some customers would like it to is *reasonable*, considering that real cost, considering their lack of legal responsibility, and considering the degree of responsibility that other companies take regarding their products. As far as allowing people to "volunteer" their services - ever since the Ultima Online volunteer class action lawsuit, that's probably not an approach Blizzard (or any other company) is eager to leap into.

--

What this all means is - it's not a great situation, but it's the hand that's been dealt. I'm not saying people shouldn't complain about Blizzard; I think it's good that posters with grievances should make their opinion known. But posters should think more about real-world considerations and make suggestions or direct discussion along those lines if they really want any productive results.

It would be nearly trivial for a skilled programmer to develop a program that could analyze replay submissions and automatically detect blink-hack, burrow-hack, auto-inject-hack, auto-worker hack, or any other automated task hack. Every time someone reports a hacker and adds a replay, Blizzard could quickly run the replay through the analyzer and see if any of those hacks are present. Then they can compile the names and ban those accounts. None of it would be particularly difficult or resource intensive.

If Blizzard is smart about it, they just state that these people were banned for hacking, and never mention the method used to catch them so that people don't realize it's the auto stuff that is getting them caught. Of course, a smarter or less cocky hacker would limit himself to true maphacks or production hacks and would be harder to catch, but at least we'd prune the ladder of a lot of the idiot hack kids.

Potentially, with some more work, Blizzard could use certain things in the replays to determine actual maphacks. Stuff like trying to build a building on top of creep that has receeded, but the hacker shouldn't know it. Or maybe even other indicators in the replay. After that program is created, they can actually save resources in the anti-hack department because they don't need as many people to manually go through replays.
Playing better than standard requires deviation. This divergence usually results in sub-standard play.
neversummer
Profile Joined September 2011
United States156 Posts
July 07 2012 21:02 GMT
#1707
On July 07 2012 14:17 ZweiGaming wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2012 13:41 TENTHST wrote:
How come the original post isn't being updated with new hackers?


Because making videos take some time, and because theres no top ranked hackers that have been reported lately (or about none as i'm looking into few replays atm). As I said, the original post will only contain GM/top 400 masters. I need few replays of the accused before exposing to be sure about it.


whysomad is rank 1 masters with over 1k points. This thead alone has had numerous reports of his blatant maphacking.
Those scientists better check their hypotenuses, dude.
ZweiGaming
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada348 Posts
July 07 2012 23:44 GMT
#1708
On July 08 2012 06:02 neversummer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 07 2012 14:17 ZweiGaming wrote:
On July 07 2012 13:41 TENTHST wrote:
How come the original post isn't being updated with new hackers?


Because making videos take some time, and because theres no top ranked hackers that have been reported lately (or about none as i'm looking into few replays atm). As I said, the original post will only contain GM/top 400 masters. I need few replays of the accused before exposing to be sure about it.


whysomad is rank 1 masters with over 1k points. This thead alone has had numerous reports of his blatant maphacking.


Once I finish watching all of his replays i'll update it.
Hummingb1rd
Profile Joined December 2010
United States97 Posts
July 07 2012 23:52 GMT
#1709
On July 04 2012 06:17 Hummingb1rd wrote:
GM Dood...I think catz (?) was saying on his stream how this dude blind countered him during a game. I played him shortly after. Look at how he looks at my army several times behind FOW and etc.

Chat log - http://imgur.com/yOAFs
Replay - http://drop.sc/214062


@Zwei please take a look at this GM
Assirra
Profile Joined August 2010
Belgium4169 Posts
July 07 2012 23:52 GMT
#1710
On July 07 2012 16:27 RenSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2012 11:55 redruMBunny wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

On July 04 2012 08:43 ODKStevez wrote:
Well they are a company, but this problem needs resolved because the more Blizzard show they don't care, the more that it will happen.


Let's say you're Blizzard, and you're trying to stop hackers. $100,000 a year minimum. Probably much more.

Let's say you set up infrastructure for an automated report system in Battle.net, allowing submission of replays. Say it's a given that replays submitted for hacking reports must have been viewed at least once. (To prevent the millions of spurious and unfounded accusations of hacking which would inevitably be submitted.)

Now let's say you set up a data analysis system to analyze submitted replay data for hacks. Since detected hacks are continuously replaced by newer hacks and bypasses, this means at least one programmer to constantly update data &c. More likely, you need a team.

Any such team would further have to work with existing SC2 teams to integrate antihack patching.

It isn't just a matter of having the existing SC2 teams do antihacking data analysis and reprogramming. The existing SC2 teams already each have their own jobs, even if they were qualified to do antihacking data analysis - which they may very well not be. (There are different areas of expertise in programming, and data analysis is not the same as thing as game programming).

Now let's say also that you need translation and support teams. It isn't enough to just take in replay data; players suspecting hacks may have particular reasons for suspecting hacks that cannot be readily identified with data analysis.

Besides those costs, the amount of data being sent to Blizzard would probably require additional server setup - which of course requires more money.

Even then, that's the absolute minimum cost. If Blizzard were to put "serious" attention to addressing hackers, including followups on reports and individual analysis of suspect replays, the time and staff costs would skyrocket. I wouldn't imagine $100K would even begin to cover it in that case.

--

I think it's a gross exaggeration to say Blizzard doesn't care, or that Blizzard's only in it for the money. Obviously, a company cares about its product, if only to the extent of protecting its perceived value to its customers by eliminating negative influences such as hacking.

On the other hand, there's a limit to the extent a company can reasonably be expected to police its own product. A house can be covered with toilet paper and eggs, but that doesn't mean toilet paper manufacturers and farmers should be held responsible for establishing and paying for neighborhood watches to ensure their product isn't misused. That may sound a little ridiculous, but things far more dangerous are still relatively unregulated. Where to Mexican drug cartels get all their guns? (They certainly aren't homemade.) Why are there so many accidents related to talking on cell phones or excessive drinking? We're talking about things that destabilize countries and destroy lives, but which still aren't policed to the degree that's being suggested as "reasonable" in this and other threads for Blizzard.

Explain, please, why Blizzard should be held to a different standard.

I'm not saying hacking should be ignored. What I am saying is that there isn't any legal basis for holding Blizzard responsible for third party hackers. What I am saying is that the degree of apparent responsibility that people seem to be thinking Blizzard should be held to is *abnormal* in light of the degree of regulation in other industries.

What I am saying is that there is a real cost associated with dealing properly with hacking, and that Blizzard's failure to deal with hacking as some customers would like it to is *reasonable*, considering that real cost, considering their lack of legal responsibility, and considering the degree of responsibility that other companies take regarding their products. As far as allowing people to "volunteer" their services - ever since the Ultima Online volunteer class action lawsuit, that's probably not an approach Blizzard (or any other company) is eager to leap into.

--

What this all means is - it's not a great situation, but it's the hand that's been dealt. I'm not saying people shouldn't complain about Blizzard; I think it's good that posters with grievances should make their opinion known. But posters should think more about real-world considerations and make suggestions or direct discussion along those lines if they really want any productive results.

It would be nearly trivial for a skilled programmer to develop a program that could analyze replay submissions and automatically detect blink-hack, burrow-hack, auto-inject-hack, auto-worker hack, or any other automated task hack. Every time someone reports a hacker and adds a replay, Blizzard could quickly run the replay through the analyzer and see if any of those hacks are present. Then they can compile the names and ban those accounts. None of it would be particularly difficult or resource intensive.

If Blizzard is smart about it, they just state that these people were banned for hacking, and never mention the method used to catch them so that people don't realize it's the auto stuff that is getting them caught. Of course, a smarter or less cocky hacker would limit himself to true maphacks or production hacks and would be harder to catch, but at least we'd prune the ladder of a lot of the idiot hack kids.

Potentially, with some more work, Blizzard could use certain things in the replays to determine actual maphacks. Stuff like trying to build a building on top of creep that has receeded, but the hacker shouldn't know it. Or maybe even other indicators in the replay. After that program is created, they can actually save resources in the anti-hack department because they don't need as many people to manually go through replays.

Then why don't you do it?
Since you claim its trivial you have to a programmer yourself so it should be easy work for you right?
ZweiGaming
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada348 Posts
July 08 2012 02:07 GMT
#1711
On July 08 2012 08:52 Hummingb1rd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 04 2012 06:17 Hummingb1rd wrote:
GM Dood...I think catz (?) was saying on his stream how this dude blind countered him during a game. I played him shortly after. Look at how he looks at my army several times behind FOW and etc.

Chat log - http://imgur.com/yOAFs
Replay - http://drop.sc/214062


@Zwei please take a look at this GM


He's been on the front page for a while, it's a known hacker that used a name change (both his accounts are on main post).
MxGStreamA
Profile Joined March 2012
35 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-08 21:53:03
July 08 2012 21:52 GMT
#1712
IMNestea also has accounts named Axelleration,Google,LGintel,Intel,YetiMachine. All the same player. What happens is he has google play protoss on all the accounts. Someone by the name of Atroll(juicypen,ggforu) also plays on these accounts.
ROOTCatZ
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
Peru1226 Posts
July 08 2012 22:46 GMT
#1713
On July 09 2012 06:52 MxGStreamA wrote:
IMNestea also has accounts named Axelleration,Google,LGintel,Intel,YetiMachine. All the same player. What happens is he has google play protoss on all the accounts. Someone by the name of Atroll(juicypen,ggforu) also plays on these accounts.

ah, i've accussed a few of those of hacking they are quite terrible players all of them
Progamerwww.root-gaming.com
lllsc2
Profile Joined April 2012
France1 Post
July 09 2012 01:32 GMT
#1714
The player ƧhitHappƎnS is a maphacker for sure. ( EU server )

the replay : http://replayfu.com/download/MWBRpk

( 12 min 40 )

an other replays prouve he's definitly a maphacker.
NotYetAWoman
Profile Joined April 2012
Norway49 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 01:33:46
July 09 2012 01:33 GMT
#1715
On July 09 2012 10:32 lllsc2 wrote:
The player ƧhitHappƎnS is a maphacker for sure. ( EU server )

the replay : http://replayfu.com/download/MWBRpk

( 12 min 40 )

an other replays prouve he's definitly a maphacker.


Your just bad.
NotYetaWoman
ZweiGaming
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada348 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 02:46:01
July 09 2012 02:43 GMT
#1716
On July 09 2012 07:46 ROOTCatZ wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 06:52 MxGStreamA wrote:
IMNestea also has accounts named Axelleration,Google,LGintel,Intel,YetiMachine. All the same player. What happens is he has google play protoss on all the accounts. Someone by the name of Atroll(juicypen,ggforu) also plays on these accounts.

ah, i've accussed a few of those of hacking they are quite terrible players all of them


Could you send me the replays of those? Would help a lot.

On July 09 2012 06:52 MxGStreamA wrote:
IMNestea also has accounts named Axelleration,Google,LGintel,Intel,YetiMachine. All the same player. What happens is he has google play protoss on all the accounts. Someone by the name of Atroll(juicypen,ggforu) also plays on these accounts.


Doubt all of those are the same person as they are online at the same time, but some of these names are confirmed hackers as for the others, i'd like to have replays confirming it.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
July 09 2012 02:45 GMT
#1717
On July 07 2012 04:01 Montecore wrote:
This widespread hacking is pretty insane, it really undermines the competetive scene. Has there ever been a bliz game that hasn't been full of online hacks?

*Has there ever been any game that hasn't been filled with hacks?
:)
Starshaped
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Sweden575 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 02:58:43
July 09 2012 02:55 GMT
#1718
On July 09 2012 10:32 lllsc2 wrote:
The player ƧhitHappƎnS is a maphacker for sure. ( EU server )

the replay : http://replayfu.com/download/MWBRpk

( 12 min 40 )

an other replays prouve he's definitly a maphacker.


I was just about to post a replay saying I think he hacks. I see he's been mentioned before. He definitely tries to hide it, which to me makes him the worst kind of hacker. If you're gonna hack at least be open and honest about it.

Replay: http://replayfu.com/r/S2crkf

Suspicious moves: ~12-13 minutes, he seems to react to me moving out before he can see it (he stares into nothingness for quite some time). Before that he randomly warps in a few units in his main even though he has everything else by the tower outside my base. I think this is because he saw my raven harass coming, but he does seem to be caught off-guard by it a little bit, so I can't tell. He also blindly adds in phoenix, without having the slightest idea of what I'm doing. However, the most conclusive evidence is around 14 minutes, just before we engage. The last thing he sees is me moving away, back to my nat. He then proceeds to jerk his army back and forth a bit which doesn't make any sense unless he sees my movement. He then proceeds to use guardian shield BEFORE SEEING MY ARMY, and then we engage.

It didn't feel like he was hacking when I was playing. I just randomly decided to watch the replay and everything felt a bit off about his play and I decided to watch it again more closely to check for maphack and I'm now fairly certain he does indeed hack, however I'd want some more opinions.

This is high master EU.

Edit: He was low-mid master in the previous seasons. An interesting observation if nothing else.
My Starcraft 2, gaming and e-sports-related blog: http://starshapedthoughts.blogspot.com/
Ichobicho
Profile Joined July 2010
Norway79 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-07-09 20:11:55
July 09 2012 19:58 GMT
#1719
On July 09 2012 11:55 Starshaped wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 10:32 lllsc2 wrote:
The player ƧhitHappƎnS is a maphacker for sure. ( EU server )

the replay : http://replayfu.com/download/MWBRpk

( 12 min 40 )

an other replays prouve he's definitly a maphacker.


I was just about to post a replay saying I think he hacks. I see he's been mentioned before. He definitely tries to hide it, which to me makes him the worst kind of hacker. If you're gonna hack at least be open and honest about it.

Replay: http://replayfu.com/r/S2crkf

Suspicious moves: ~12-13 minutes, he seems to react to me moving out before he can see it (he stares into nothingness for quite some time). Before that he randomly warps in a few units in his main even though he has everything else by the tower outside my base. I think this is because he saw my raven harass coming, but he does seem to be caught off-guard by it a little bit, so I can't tell. He also blindly adds in phoenix, without having the slightest idea of what I'm doing. However, the most conclusive evidence is around 14 minutes, just before we engage. The last thing he sees is me moving away, back to my nat. He then proceeds to jerk his army back and forth a bit which doesn't make any sense unless he sees my movement. He then proceeds to use guardian shield BEFORE SEEING MY ARMY, and then we engage.

It didn't feel like he was hacking when I was playing. I just randomly decided to watch the replay and everything felt a bit off about his play and I decided to watch it again more closely to check for maphack and I'm now fairly certain he does indeed hack, however I'd want some more opinions.

This is high master EU.

Edit: He was low-mid master in the previous seasons. An interesting observation if nothing else.


He also had 3 colossus, but didn't make a single observer all game.

edit: In the PvZ game at 11:15 he places a pylon reacting to zergling moing towards his wall, he ses the zerglings with the probe coming from the right, but when that probe sees it he has already placed the pylon. He knows the zerglings are out on the map, but the timing on that pylon is really sucpicious and it should have been earlier(considering the runby could happen earlier)
raser
Profile Joined May 2010
Norway301 Posts
July 09 2012 20:14 GMT
#1720
On July 09 2012 10:33 NotYetAWoman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 09 2012 10:32 lllsc2 wrote:
The player ƧhitHappƎnS is a maphacker for sure. ( EU server )

the replay : http://replayfu.com/download/MWBRpk

( 12 min 40 )

an other replays prouve he's definitly a maphacker.


Your just bad.

yeahyeah defend your old teammate Seriously
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